WRU speaks out

First topic message reminder :

Press release:

"WELSH RUGBY UNION STATEMENT

The Welsh Rugby Union wishes to clarify recent media reporting of a variety of current issues related to Welsh rugby. The WRU is anxious that the Welsh rugby public are made aware of the facts.


PRGB

The proposal to create a Professional Regional Game Board was developed during discussions following an independent report which concluded that the Regions needed to improve their business management and explore collaborative solutions.

A memorandum of understanding was signed by all four Regions and the WRU late in 2012 agreeing terms for the creation of the PRGB, its remit, who should be its members and its independent Chairman.

Early in 2013 the Regions sought to interpret the memorandum of understanding in a manner which was unacceptable to the WRU.

On Tuesday March 26, in a desire to move matters forward, the WRU presented a new proposal for a PRGB and awaits a response from the Regions.

It is important to note that the WRU seeks to help the regions create long term rugby and business sustainability. Demands for more money do not address the fundamental problems.

The WRU urges the regions to work together with the WRU to ensure that a PRGB can become operational in order to help address the issues raised in the PwC report.


JUDGEMENT DAY

The WRU organised, marketed and managed the event within its stated aim of helping the Regions achieve greater visibility and attract more and new supporters. This initiative was first proposed to the Regions by the WRU in 2007.

The WRU guarantees significant match fees to the Blues and Dragons as this day replaces their scheduled home fixtures.

The WRU has underwritten the event for four years with financial guarantees.

The WRU has also proposed further, major events involving the four Regions at the Millennium Stadium.

Judgement Day has proved a remarkable success with 36, 174 people attending to watch a celebration of regional rugby which has raised the profile of the elite game in Wales.


PLAYER TRANSFERS

The WRU accepts that some elite players will inevitably seek to leave Wales to achieve contractual incomes which are beyond the capacity of the current game in Wales.

The WRU has developed an elite pathway structure which nurtures talent through the WRU age grade structure, the WRU academies, the WRU funded regional age grade competitions, the Principality Premiership Division and its WRU resourced community game.

The WRU funds the Regions to secure the release of those elite contracted players with an annual sum in excess of £6million. This £6 million is part of the £15 million distributed to the Regions annually by the WRU.

The WRU has created a powerful elite playing and training environment through its National Centre of Excellence. The WRU urges the Regions to abandon the practice of selling Welsh qualified senior players for profit before their contracts are concluded.

The WRU further urges all four Regions to inform other regions and the WRU, as a first priority, when they are seeking to sell or release any elite Welsh qualified player.


GEORGE NORTH

The WRU is aware that the Scarlets opened discussions to transfer the player with clubs outside Wales and the UK late in 2012.

George North informed the WRU shortly after the Wales v Ireland RBS 6 Nations international on February 2 2013 that he had then been told of the transfer proposal.

George refused to consider France, but reluctantly conceded he would be prepared to move if the Scarlets wished.


CENTRAL CONTRACTS

The WRU first tabled an offer to discuss centrally contracting Welsh qualified regional players in August 2012 and has renewed that proposal. No meaningful response from the Regions has been received by the WRU.

The WRU revisited the issue of George North and agreed to consider assisting in a financial model to retain him in Wales with one of the four Regions.

The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union.


The WRU urges all four Regions to abandon this stance and return to the negotiating table.


This press release was produced by Sotic Ltd.

© Copyright Welsh Rugby Union. All rights reserved."


EDIT:

The Regions' response:

"The four Welsh regions are united in expressing how staggered and bitterly disappointed they all are with the nature, intent and content of the public statement made by the WRU this morning on a number of issues affecting Welsh rugby.
As the governing body that should lead and set the standards and platform for the profile of the game in Wales, the regions are surprised at the WRU's seemingly defensive reaction to some of the media reporting particularly given the success of yesterday's Welsh derby double-header.

As a celebration of regional rugby that attracted close to 37,000 supporters of our game, it was a clear example of the benefits of a partnership approach between the four regions to create fresh opportunities to promote the regional game in Wales and enjoyed by both regional players and spectators.

There are a number of significant comments made within the WRU statement, that the four regions will now need to consider very seriously and with the appropriate amount of time and discussion before making a full and united response.

The Professional Regional Game Board (PRGB) was proposed to ensure that Welsh rugby had a joint collaborative body, with an independent chairman, with the remit and authority to find solutions for some of the issues affecting Welsh rugby.

Had the PRGB been implemented as originally agreed by the WRU, it would be addressing the exact issues that it has now raised in its statement including the important objective of how best to retain Welsh players like George North.

The four regions and WRU signed and agreed a Memorandum of Understanding in November 2012 that outlined the creation of the PRGB. On the basis of this agreement, the PRGB met once on December 17th 2012.

The Regions have not changed or altered in any way their interpretation, understanding, intent or commitment to the agreements reached since the first proposals were made in May 2012.

The only queries raised subsequently, which have affected the establishment of the PRGB and the memorandum of understand signed by all five parties, have been made by the WRU which has in turn delayed the process.

The four Welsh regions have been committed and open in providing full and detailed information for the PwC report and its recommendations and have been consistent in their aims to work in partnership for successful establishment of the PRGB."

EDIT #2

Further WRU statement:

"WELSH RUGBY UNION STATEMENT

The WRU invites representatives from each of the four regional organisations to a meeting at the Millennium Stadium to discuss the contracting centrally of key Welsh rugby talent.

The WRU asks the four regional organisations to put aside their agreement not to play centrally contracted players and work with the Union to help secure the future of our young players in Wales.

The WRU will table, in advance of the meeting, a range of detailed options to be discussed, in addition to those already proposed, so that the four regional organisations are fully prepared to take part in a meaningful debate.

The WRU would also welcome suggestions from the four regional organisations on how best a centrally contracted player system would work to help safeguard Welsh rugby.

The WRU will be formally writing to the four regional organisations this morning, Tuesday April 2nd."

The words Ego & Trip fit in nicely

Maesteg,

What is sad is that the sole purpose of Regional Rugby Wales is to serve the personal financial interests of PThomas, M Hazell & co.

It has nothing to do with regional rugby as such. And what is baffling is the support these multimillionaires seem to be able to garner from rugby supporters who quite frankly need to open their eyes.

Scrumdown wrote:Maesteg,

What is sad is that the sole purpose of Regional Rugby Wales is to serve the personal financial interests of PThomas, M Hazell & co.

It has nothing to do with regional rugby as such. And what is baffling is the support these multimillionaires seem to be able to garner from rugby supporters who quite frankly need to open their eyes.

It would be nice to see fans in wales learn from the mistakes of other countries and work around these issues devising a better plan that works for Wales.

maestegmafia wrote:The argument for central contracting is that the WRU could determine what a player does and where he plays and most importantly legally bind that player to staying in Wales which is what we all want.

I disagree. I want Wales to do well but I don't think that we need our best players playing in Wales for that to happen. Furthermore, I want my region to do well (yes, yes, stop laughing), and I'd be furious if I saw the WRU helping another region to buy our best players, rather than helping us to keep them.

I think Wales will be better if the expensive senior players are having their pensions topped upon England and France. New talent will be givena chance in their absence. As long as wedi t get hung upon winning a HC or replace Wales team members with foreign journeymen.

Glas a du wrote:or replace Wales team members with foreign journeymen.

and here lies the problem.

Millions have been wasted on these players since the game went pro.

If my memory is correct started by Llanelli with a RL player

That's a good point, Glas: how can the next wave of Welsh players, our under-20s for example, come through if our current internationals all stay put?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's a good point, Glas: how can the next wave of Welsh players, our under-20s for example, come through if our current internationals all stay put?

We have about 20-30 established international players and 92 match day places available every weekend at the regions, so there is plenty of space, it just means ditching Chavanga for North, or Paulo for Charteris, or Adriaanse for Mtchell, or Fotuali'i for Phillips. And to that the LV= and international window rabo games, there will be plenty of chances for younger players. The plus side would be that they would be competing regularly with the current team wales members, so it will be easier to see who is ready to get capped and who isn't.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The argument for central contracting is that the WRU could determine what a player does and where he plays and most importantly legally bind that player to staying in Wales which is what we all want.

I disagree. I want Wales to do well but I don't think that we need our best players playing in Wales for that to happen. Furthermore, I want my region to do well (yes, yes, stop laughing), and I'd be furious if I saw the WRU helping another region to buy our best players, rather than helping us to keep them.

I reckon it's going to happen soon unfortunately LP: I have it on very good authority (pretty much from the man himself) that Lydiate is on around £70-80K as it was one of his first contracts since leaving the academy. His contract is up but the Dragons have said that they cant afford any more. He's said that, even though he'd been offered in the region of 500k Euros in France, he'd be happy to stay at the Dragons if they'd consider around £150k or thereabouts. He doesn't want to leave as such. How can the Dragons justify offering one of the best players in Europe, player of the 6N last season, a new contract of £80k? It's ridiculous. Any player would expect an improved contract from their first one, now that they were a senior player. £80k is a p*ss take for an international pro player of Lydiate's stature. It's a slap in the face, and I am not surprised that he's not renewing. The Dragons have implied that they've asked the WRU for help, but they are are unwilling, but I bet there's a deal afoot to supplement his wages at either the Blues or the Ospreys, a la George North. Faletau will be next, and the Ospreys will be his destination I reckon.

Here's my conspiracy theory bit: I think it's just a matter of time before the Blues and Ospreys are unveiled as out two top flight teams, with the Scarlets and Dragons being officially designated nursery regions for the other two. I reckon the WRU already know that there will only be two automatic qualifiers from Wales for future Heineken Cups, so they'll play there part in stacking the talent in those two regions. The Dragons and Scarlets will play in the Amlin, and will be funded accordingly. The 4 academies will still exist, but game time will come either in the league/LV cup or they'll be shipped to the nursery regions for regular first team rugby.

Spot on Griff

I posted many moons ago on other sites that Rugby in Wales will end up with 2 teams based in Cardiff & Swansea just like Welsh football

I also said that it is likely that these teams will eventually become part of a British or English league

Sadly Griff thats how it looks, and if it does go that way that'll probably be my line in the sand crossed and I will retract from anything to do with the sport in Wales.

Theres only so much you can put up with before just giving up!

Griff, it's no wonder the regions want to go to the full board of the WRU to state their case. You can call Roger Lewis many things, but honest isn't one of them.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:. You can call Roger Lewis many things, but honest isn't one of them.

Why do you say this LP?

Because I'm pretty sure that he won't have discussed these potential changes to the number and nature of the regions with the management of the regions themselves - certainly not with the regions that may be demoted / disbanded. One of the great frustrations is that they don't get a straight answer from him.

As a fellow rugby fan I feel your pain.

From an English club point of view I trust the club owners more than the old Farts of the RFU.

My foray into this private matter is to pose a question.

Do you think the Regions could challenge the WRU in the courts?

It's just that often these ruling bodies in sporting circles are often on shaky legal ground when enforcing certain aspects of their regulations - as the fairly recent case with London Welsh and the RFU/PRL (the promotion case not the ineligble player case)

What we have considered 'business as usual' in sport sometimes becomes unsustainable when scrutinised by the legal eagles.

So can you see this being escalated to a new level or is it going to be kept in-house (with 'leaks' from both sides)?

Thanks LP

In my experience it is unusual to discuss/negotiate things with the "Opposition" other than in properly minuted meetings.

The way I see the situation is that the regions are not prepared to negotiate

Ape, the thing I don't understand is the the WRU is supposed to be a union of the clubs, so presumably anything those at the top propose to do has to be run past the member clubs to be given the okay. Presumably this is why the regions want to address the full board rather than attend another meeting with a man they evidently don't trust.

Allty, what incentive are they being given? The WRU wants more control of the players but isn't offering the regions any more money in return.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Ape, the thing I don't understand is the the WRU is supposed to be a union of the clubs, so presumably anything those at the top propose to do has to be run past the member clubs to be given the okay. Presumably this is why the regions want to address the full board rather than attend another meeting with a man they evidently don't trust.

I think this is maybe why the WRU want to keep the regions and clubs separate. Andrew Hore has recently said that they have been prevented from working more closely with the clubs in their region by the WRU as it is apparently not the job of the regional organisation to do so! Maybe the WRU want to keep them separate so that the 'union' bit is unable to operate as it should and have a say regarding the separate regional entities, thus giving the WRU the ultimate say instead? Again, a conspiracy from me based entirely on conjecture. Please note Mr Legal Eagle if you're out there somewhere.

Legal Eagle! - Glas is more of a Legal Song Thrush

I always thought of him as a Legal Chough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, what incentive are they being given? The WRU wants more control of the players but isn't offering the regions any more money in return.

This is the exact thing they should be discussing and negotiating whilst sitting around a table with the occasional adjournment for private discussion

All in a properly convened agendad and minuted meeting.

With Lewis's background this would be what he expects and something people like Gallagher appear not to understand.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The argument for central contracting is that the WRU could determine what a player does and where he plays and most importantly legally bind that player to staying in Wales which is what we all want.

I disagree. I want Wales to do well but I don't think that we need our best players playing in Wales for that to happen. Furthermore, I want my region to do well (yes, yes, stop laughing), and I'd be furious if I saw the WRU helping another region to buy our best players, rather than helping us to keep them.

I dont think we have a chance of keeping the older players unless they want to stay. It is the young guys in the early twenties, the academy players etc I don't want to leave.

I dont mind established internationals playing abroad, particularly in France where the clubs are happy to work with the WRU over International release.

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, what incentive are they being given? The WRU wants more control of the players but isn't offering the regions any more money in return.

This is the exact thing they should be discussing and negotiating whilst sitting around a table with the occasional adjournment for private discussion

All in a properly convened agendad and minuted meeting.
With Lewis's background this would be what he expects and something people like Gallagher appear not to understand.

Such as the PRGB, which Roger Lewis was trumpeting as a major breakthrough a few short months ago.

"I always thought of him as a Legal beagle"

"What, hunting out justice?"

"No smoking a lot and rolling in other creatures' Poopie"

How about this for a conspiracy:

Dragons and Scarlets players moved to Blues (East) and Ospreys (West) and paid by WRU to avoid "player drain" under "central contracting". Eventually Dragons and Scarlets fold leaving space for a Connacht style (Valleys, Gwent, Mid and North Wales) development region.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, what incentive are they being given? The WRU wants more control of the players but isn't offering the regions any more money in return.

This is the exact thing they should be discussing and negotiating whilst sitting around a table with the occasional adjournment for private discussion

All in a properly convened agendad and minuted meeting.
With Lewis's background this would be what he expects and something people like Gallagher appear not to understand.

Such as the PRGB, which Roger Lewis was trumpeting as a major breakthrough a few short months ago.

Seems he was wrong

Aren't they represented by Gallagher who appears to be avoiding a professional approach to negotiations