Harlequin FC vs Munster - the Heinken Cup QF at the Stoop

Munster, 4 times HEC Champions but a team in flux, take on Quins, past Amlin Champions and Aviva Premiership Champions, at the Stoop on 2pm on Sunday. The two have met before, in Ireland, when Quins surprised the rugby world in beating Munster en route to winning the 2nd tier European Cup in 2011. This time Quins are the favourites but in shaky form and on the back of 3 defeats in the Premiership in a row, whilst Munster were trounced by Glasgow last week. Munster know what it takes to win at this level and could easily upset Quins to win but Quins looked to have their attacking mojo back and just lacked compusure toward the end against Gloucester. THe last time Quins were at this stage in the HEC, it was against an Irish side, Leinster, and the Bloodgate scandal from that match saw them fall from grace and Dean Richards banned form the game for 2 years. The Quins side is quite similar to that disgraced team and the man who was caught cheating, Tom Williams, starts in what will be an epic but hopefully non-controversial encounter

Quins-

"Harlequins have announced the team that will play Munster at The Stoop in the Heineken Cup quarter-final on Sunday, kick-off 2.00pm (live on Sky Sports 2).Related Multimedia
There are four changes to the team that played Gloucester Rugby last Friday. Among the backs, Tom Williams and Ugo Monye return to start on the wings, with Mike Brown continuing at full-back.

George Lowe will make his 100th senior appearance for the club and partners Tom Casson in the centre.

In the forwards, the front five remain unchanged, while Maurie Fa'asavalu and captain, Chris Robshaw return to the flanks.

Tom Guest has recovered from illness and is named among the replacements.

This fixture will be the biggest that the Twickenham Stoop has ever held. With a 15,000 capacity crowd attending, Harlequins are encouraging supporters from both teams to arrive with plenty of time. Gates will open at 12pm for the 2pm kick-off.

Harlequins team

15. Mike Brown
14. Tom Williams
13. George Lowe
12. Tom Casson
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. James Johnston
4. Olly Kohn
5. George Robson
6. Maurie Fa'asavalu
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

16. Joe Gray
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Charlie Matthews
20. Tom Guest
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ben Botica
23. Matt Hopper"

Munster - "Good news for Munster in that Simon Zebo has been passed fit to take his place in the starting line-up for the Quins Heineken Cup quarter final game but Doug Howlett misses out with an injured shoulder, his place on the wing going to Denis Hurley.It’s Zebo’s first game for Munster since the Racing Metro game on January 20thafter which he injured a foot in the second game of the RBS Six Nations against England.
Howlett damaged a shoulder in the act of reaching for the line to score a try last weekend against Glasgow Warriors. He sat out Tuesday’s session in Musgrave Park before finally accepting today that he wouldn’t make the starting line.

Back into the side however come internationals Conor Murray, Peter O’Mahony and Donnacha Ryan who was also mentioned on Tuesday as a doubt forthe trip to The Stoop.

Like Murray and O’Mahony, Ryan hasn’t kicked a ball in anger since the Italy encounter for which he was considered doubtful because of a shoulder/back injury that had been affecting him during the RBS.

Nevertheless he gets the nod over Donncha O’Callaghan to partner Paul O’Connell in the second row while Cathal Sheridan and Ivan Dineen both named among the replacements get a first taste of Heineken Cup fare.

In Howlett's absence, Paul O'Connell will wear the captain's armband.

Munster: F Jones; D Hurley, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; R O’Gara, C Murray; D Kilcoyne , M Sherry BJ Botha; D Ryan, P O’Connell capt; P O’Mahony, T O’Donnell , J Coughlan. Replacements: D Varley W du Preez, S Archer, Donncha O’Callaghan, P Butler, C Sheridan, I Keatley, I Dineen.

"

Bring it on

If Harlequins can't beat Munster I would be shocked. Munster's pack won't gain a signifigant upper hand and with our centres and ROG we won't get anything going out wide. Harlequins should destroy Munster.

This along with the Clermont match are the only 2 sure things this wknd for me. Quins by about 15 points. Either way though the winners have to go to France to play Clermont so the SF is as far as they'd get.

Thomond wrote:If Harlequins can't beat Munster I would be shocked. Munster's pack won't gain a signifigant upper hand and with our centres and ROG we won't get anything going out wide. Harlequins should destroy Munster.

I refuse to get overconfident, especially after pur display against Sarries a couple of weeks ago. I expect and hope to win but nothing is certain

Strong Harlequins team that. I quite like the look of the centre pairing too, if Casson can continue his good form.

Good to see Bucanhan rewarded for his strong performance against Gloucester too. The lad's got a future.

If you can't beat that Munster team I would seriously question how you got this far in the competition, it is a decent side nothing more.

Shame there's no Wallace or Chisholm. Not sure Maurie's form merits this start and JJ looks like he's thinking of Sarries already

Thomond wrote:If you can't beat that Munster team I would seriously question how you got this far in the competition, it is a decent side nothing more.

Yes we are rubbish and the London L'boys should hockey us. If you take the head to head against say the Aviva leading team (the funny hat wearing bunch) then we have beaten them once and lost by less than a score once, while Queens have er...lost to them twice...the last time by about 15.

Also would note that a lot of queens wins have not been as emphatic as people seem to think. Still expect Quins to win but I don't think there will be much more than five in the result

Shock horror, Irish fans playing down their sides chances!

Cracked me up listening to Paul O'Connel on the rugby club last night talking down Munsters chances as well. Honestly you'd think that they were a semi pro team the way he was going on about how massive the challenge of Quins would be.

Quins should be marginal favourites, but let's not get silly. This is Munster, this is knock out rugby. To keep doing your team the disservice of talking them down and saying how they can't win or Quins can't lose is just disrespectful to Munster.

When those 15 players in red walk out on to the pitch at The Stoop on Sunday they'll be playing to win, and Munster are one of the best teams at winning the knock out games. Especially now that they have little to play for in the Rabo.

As to Quins.

I like the look of that team. Only complaint is the lack of Wallace after his stellar run in the LV and his faultless displays in the Prem. I think it's a mistake from CoS to put big Mo straight back in to the starting line up as he's been massively off form this season while Wallace has been a stand out.

Seeing Williams, Casson and Monye back in the team gives me confidence though. I think that backline looks very solid with plenty of threat in it as well. It's great that a youngster like Casson is being trusted in such a huge game, hopefully his classy kicking from hand will help take a bit of pressure off of Nev.

Quins by 5 in a very close one.

COYQ's

Quins deserve to be heavy favourites as Munster got hammered by a good Glasgow side last week, havbe lost their captain and are playing a geriatric at outhalf

But Munster will never get hammered twice in a row, have senior experienced players throughout the team and their out half has won more medals then Quins combined.

If anyone knows how to win a European knock out game then it's Munster, and Quins have lost three home games on the bounce.

Most of that is in the past, our outhalf is old and pretty useless, only 3 lads who started in 08 will take the field, only one of them is there on merit.

It's all a point of view I suppose, but Quins are on a run of poor form and have really struggled to get any continuity going. Our big name players have underperformed so far and most of the rest look a bit lazy.

Thomond wrote:Quins deserve to be heavy favourites as Munster got hammered by a good Glasgow side last week, havbe lost their captain and are playing a geriatric at outhalf

Except for ROGs display against Saracens we would not have made the quarters. I expect some grovelling apologies on Monday if we win. You know he can do it..never ever discount him...also remember who you support its munster not cork city . Keep your disrespect for one of our best ever players to yourself or keep it within the bed wetting society thread.

I've gone on here and elsewhere and said O'Gara while an extremely good outhalf was also incredibly overrated, he maximised his talents with some great gameplanning from his coaches. Munster could have won Heineken Cups without ROG I think, they don't win any without that dominant pack in my mind.

Rog deservedly will go down as an Irish and Munster great, that has nothing to do with how he is playing now. Kicking well and playing well are not the same thing. O'Gara kicked well against Sarries, he did nothing else and his lack of creativity is a big reason why Munster are playing a game away from Limerick.

We can win and not change anything, we have won some big games the last couple of years in spite of ROG, very few if any because of him. ROG was a superb player, but he isn't now and hasn't been for a while.

If he can run the backline and improve his goal kicking stats then I have no problem praising him, he had one of his better games in recent times a couple of weeks back actually.

Well, let's hope Munster do one of their unexpected hatchet jobs.

Yep, they can pull it off...but it'll be rampant stuff all night, like Glasgow. Just contain some of Penney's stuff (who would have thought I'd say that?) It'll come eventually, but hardly this year. Just be Munster in f**king HEC mood and put Harlequins through a tumble drier and see what comes out the other end. Rage, sweat and defiance. Put Conor in his box

That is a fine argument. I disagree completely of course and in recent years when the team has been really poor specifically last year he dragged us to the qfs. keep the individual insults to yourself, you are a bandwagon jumper and have a football supporter mentality..

The problems with Munster are elsewhere (look at leinster forwards this evening and you might understand but I doubt it). Sunday will be a dogfight..no better buachaill than ROG. If you were right do you think Penney would play him...stick to the wendyball

When did Munster win the Heineken cup for the third and fourth time?

mikey_philVIII wrote:When did Munster win the Heineken cup for the third and fourth time?

In our dreams I would say...

DOD wrote:

mikey_philVIII wrote:When did Munster win the Heineken cup for the third and fourth time?

In our dreams I would say...

Quins by 10 I think. Something isn't right if Munster ship 50 points to Glasgow.

A bandwagon jumper, yes I've been supporting Munster when they've had success but that is partly due to the fact of when I was born, you can pblame my parents if you want I suppose. I've been playing and supporting rugby longer than soccer so there's that.


Is ROG our biggest problem? Probably nto we have pretty average centres, a pack which struggles for dominance. The way Penney wants to play, it doesn't make much sense to me to have a guy who sits as deep as ROG our backs lack a threat, any backline lacks a threat when your outhalf takes it at a standing start a good 5m behind the ruck.

I expect ROG to have a good game, the only big knockout game i have seen him play really poor in was the Ulster QF last year, he will want to bounce back. He has had some superb games and a stellar career but the last 18 months or so bar 5/6 great games have been average at best. It's not all his fault he has struggled behind his pack and struggled to adapt to the game Musnter are trying to play but I hope you would think we have looked a fair bit more fluid and threatening with Keatley at 10. We look we can score tries, we don't with ROG nor have we scored in the HC with ROG (4 tries I think in HC under ROG, Zebo wonder try in racing, Howlett after Downey intercept, a penalty try and Murray score I think)

mikey_philVIII wrote:

DOD wrote:

mikey_philVIII wrote:When did Munster win the Heineken cup for the third and fourth time?

In our dreams I would say...

Quins by 10 I think. Something isn't right if Munster ship 50 points to Glasgow.

That result is a distinct possibility, however I expect Munster to revert to type. That could make it interesting

Thomond wrote:A bandwagon jumper, yes I've been supporting Munster when they've had success but that is partly due to the fact of when I was born, you can pblame my parents if you want I suppose. I've been playing and supporting rugby longer than soccer so there's that.


Is ROG our biggest problem? Probably nto we have pretty average centres, a pack which struggles for dominance. The way Penney wants to play, it doesn't make much sense to me to have a guy who sits as deep as ROG our backs lack a threat, any backline lacks a threat when your outhalf takes it at a standing start a good 5m behind the ruck.

I expect ROG to have a good game, the only big knockout game i have seen him play really poor in was the Ulster QF last year, he will want to bounce back. He has had some superb games and a stellar career but the last 18 months or so bar 5/6 great games have been average at best. It's not all his fault he has struggled behind his pack and struggled to adapt to the game Musnter are trying to play but I hope you would think we have looked a fair bit more fluid and threatening with Keatley at 10. We look we can score tries, we don't with ROG nor have we scored in the HC with ROG (4 tries I think in HC under ROG, Zebo wonder try in racing, Howlett after Downey intercept, a penalty try and Murray score I think)

Better argument. I almost agree with you. Except that Keatley is prone to mistakes and as I said we will revert to type away from home, keep it simple and cut down on mistakes. It is frankly our only hope at this stage.

We need a big day from our pack to do it, it's possible, there's a lot to like about the forwards but even when they play well they don't seem to get the cominance the teams of old had, in a one of game it's possible, ROG's distance is pretty shot but he is still pretty accurate from hand, the lineout is a tricky one, Ryan and POC haven't played together since Racing Metro, hard for Sherry to get used to the both but POM being there might help a bit.

Should be interesting no matter what happens.

DOD wrote:

mikey_philVIII wrote:When did Munster win the Heineken cup for the third and fourth time?

In our dreams I would say...

Fail. I think I meant finalist, didn't I?

Only a little while to go now until the start of the match build up.

Hopefully Quins have seen the physicality, control and precision that Saracens and Leinster brought to their games and will look to replicate that. Can't afford handling mistakes and Nev can't afford to miss kicks.

Nervous now!

COYQ's!!

COYQ!

Come on Quins!

Come on Munster!!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Come on Munster!!

did that just tear you up a little bit? Just a tiny little bit?

Oh and:

COME ON HARLEQUINS

No ive always shouted for Munster. Its more of a friendly rivalry as far as im concerned.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:No ive always shouted for Munster. Its more of a friendly rivalry as far as im concerned.

glad to hear it. It sometimes gets quite heated on bulletin boards.

Nevermind that. Its a lot different in real life. There is always good banter between fans in Munster v Leinster games

Oh and good luck today Tiger. Ill be shouting for you guys too.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Oh and good luck today Tiger. Ill be shouting for you guys too.

cheers

LondonTiger wrote:Oh and:

COME ON HARLEQUINS

What he said. Quins by 9 I reckon.

I've foolishly written off Munster for this one. But they are going to make a game of it as far as I can tell! Good luck to both.

Really good start from Conor Murray

ROG has lost his legs. Now I see what the Irish regs are on about.

Quins by 7 for me (tipping)... but I have a feeling it will be more

Come on Munster!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Really good start from Conor Murray

Yeah good to see a decent offload from an irish player for a change!

Murray has been so good recently.

Donnacha Ryan is playing like a man possessed right now. Some big hits from him.

6-0 Quins after 19 minutes. Munster appear to be on the wrong side of the ref at the moment.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Donnacha Ryan is playing like a man possessed right now. Some big hits from him.

Very underrated player, he has been the best Irish lock for the last 2 or so years.

Why is O'Gara still here.. he is holding this Munster team back so much.

POC is immense.