Harlequin FC vs Munster - the Heinken Cup QF at the Stoop

by ChequeredJersey Fri 5 Apr - 16:40

First topic message reminder :

Munster, 4 times HEC Champions but a team in flux, take on Quins, past Amlin Champions and Aviva Premiership Champions, at the Stoop on 2pm on Sunday. The two have met before, in Ireland, when Quins surprised the rugby world in beating Munster en route to winning the 2nd tier European Cup in 2011. This time Quins are the favourites but in shaky form and on the back of 3 defeats in the Premiership in a row, whilst Munster were trounced by Glasgow last week. Munster know what it takes to win at this level and could easily upset Quins to win but Quins looked to have their attacking mojo back and just lacked compusure toward the end against Gloucester. THe last time Quins were at this stage in the HEC, it was against an Irish side, Leinster, and the Bloodgate scandal from that match saw them fall from grace and Dean Richards banned form the game for 2 years. The Quins side is quite similar to that disgraced team and the man who was caught cheating, Tom Williams, starts in what will be an epic but hopefully non-controversial encounter

Quins-

"Harlequins have announced the team that will play Munster at The Stoop in the Heineken Cup quarter-final on Sunday, kick-off 2.00pm (live on Sky Sports 2).Related Multimedia
There are four changes to the team that played Gloucester Rugby last Friday. Among the backs, Tom Williams and Ugo Monye return to start on the wings, with Mike Brown continuing at full-back.

George Lowe will make his 100th senior appearance for the club and partners Tom Casson in the centre.

In the forwards, the front five remain unchanged, while Maurie Fa'asavalu and captain, Chris Robshaw return to the flanks.

Tom Guest has recovered from illness and is named among the replacements.

This fixture will be the biggest that the Twickenham Stoop has ever held. With a 15,000 capacity crowd attending, Harlequins are encouraging supporters from both teams to arrive with plenty of time. Gates will open at 12pm for the 2pm kick-off.

Harlequins team

15. Mike Brown
14. Tom Williams
13. George Lowe
12. Tom Casson
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. James Johnston
4. Olly Kohn
5. George Robson
6. Maurie Fa'asavalu
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

16. Joe Gray
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Charlie Matthews
20. Tom Guest
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ben Botica
23. Matt Hopper"

Munster - "Good news for Munster in that Simon Zebo has been passed fit to take his place in the starting line-up for the Quins Heineken Cup quarter final game but Doug Howlett misses out with an injured shoulder, his place on the wing going to Denis Hurley.It’s Zebo’s first game for Munster since the Racing Metro game on January 20thafter which he injured a foot in the second game of the RBS Six Nations against England.
Howlett damaged a shoulder in the act of reaching for the line to score a try last weekend against Glasgow Warriors. He sat out Tuesday’s session in Musgrave Park before finally accepting today that he wouldn’t make the starting line.

Back into the side however come internationals Conor Murray, Peter O’Mahony and Donnacha Ryan who was also mentioned on Tuesday as a doubt forthe trip to The Stoop.

Like Murray and O’Mahony, Ryan hasn’t kicked a ball in anger since the Italy encounter for which he was considered doubtful because of a shoulder/back injury that had been affecting him during the RBS.

Nevertheless he gets the nod over Donncha O’Callaghan to partner Paul O’Connell in the second row while Cathal Sheridan and Ivan Dineen both named among the replacements get a first taste of Heineken Cup fare.

In Howlett's absence, Paul O'Connell will wear the captain's armband.

Munster: F Jones; D Hurley, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; R O’Gara, C Murray; D Kilcoyne , M Sherry BJ Botha; D Ryan, P O’Connell capt; P O’Mahony, T O’Donnell , J Coughlan. Replacements: D Varley W du Preez, S Archer, Donncha O’Callaghan, P Butler, C Sheridan, I Keatley, I Dineen.

"

Bring it on

by nathan Sun 7 Apr - 15:52

Our turn to lose now Sad

by **LondonTiger** Sun 7 Apr - 15:52

Golden wrote:POC- What a player and What a Man!

"Im sure Clermont are happy that its us they will be playing instead of Quins"

Wouldnt be so sure of that.

Obviously based on that game Clermont would rather face Quins. Doubt that they will have nightmares about Munster though.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 7 Apr - 15:53

nathan wrote:Our turn to lose now

Probably

by Gibson Sun 7 Apr - 15:53

Golden wrote:POC- What a player and What a Man!

"Im sure Clermont are happy that its us they will be playing instead of Quins"

Wouldnt be so sure of that.

The head-games. Oooh the Munster head-games. Ligindary.

ASM wont fall for it though.

by Gibson Sun 7 Apr - 15:54

Mon Tigers!

Believe!

by valjester Sun 7 Apr - 15:55

F**k watching that game really brings home how much Ireland miss Poc. If he doesn't go on the Lions tour, hopefully we will get to see
him paired with Henderson in the second row for Ireland. And Henderson should be made room with him, get him to pass as much as
possible on.

Saying that, I don't any Irish player will be able to learn one of the best things about Poc, any pack he is part of seems to play better when
he is there. Ireland and Munster look like different teams when he plays.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 15:56

Gutted!

Well done Munster, did a Sarries on us.

Thomond, it tears me up to have to say I told you so. Perhaps you'll have a little more faith in your team now and not be so quick to disparage them?

Once again well done Munster, good luck for Clermont.

COME ON TIGERS!!

by majesticimperialman Sun 7 Apr - 16:02

Well played Munster clearly the better team today and truly deserved winners.

And well played Paul o'connel for getting man of the match.

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun 7 Apr - 16:04

Thought exactly that Yappy, that this Munster performance was one very simillar to Sarries yesterday.

But for some reason Sarries performance gets disparaged. I suppose POC and co are just more likeable.

Not taking anything away from Munster though both great performances IMO.

by maestegmafia Sun 7 Apr - 16:04

nathan wrote:
mikey_philVIII wrote:
nathan wrote:Another bind on Marlers arm...

So will Connor O'Shea 'ask the IRB for clarification' after the match?

Don't know, you'll have to ask him.

It would be great to see the IRB demote Garces, definitely not a favourite referee

by maestegmafia Sun 7 Apr - 16:05

Well done Munster. Great performance.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 7 Apr - 16:06

I reckon Garces had some random penalty generator running - because his decision making seemed to bear no relation to what was happening and was woefully inconsistent. Did not affect the result of the game thankfully as the better team on th eday won.

by VinceWLB Sun 7 Apr - 16:06

Downey was immense, best game i have seen from him on a Munster shirt.

Pretty sure Clermont would have preferred to face Quins.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 16:09

Quins pack need to take a long hard look at themselves after this run of games. Something needs to change in the engine room and CoS was a fool to trust in Fa'Asavalu again, not sure if Wallace would have made any difference but he'd have at least appeared in the first half some when.

Our bench was weak as pointed out, no power or aggression to bring on. Look at Sarries, Tigers, Clermont etc and their bench props if nothing else are monsters. We just don't have that and Gray is rapidly turning into Lee Mears mk2.

by Feckless Rogue Sun 7 Apr - 16:11

Clermont look a different class to the rest. Can't see Munster beating them in France.

Hope Tigers win this.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 16:12

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:Thought exactly that Yappy, that this Munster performance was one very simillar to Sarries yesterday.

But for some reason Sarries performance gets disparaged. I suppose POC and co are just more likeable.

Not taking anything away from Munster though both great performances IMO.

The answer could well be in which team won and lost in these two games...

Oh and Saracens are dirty cheats who fill their squad with South Africans, or some random cowpat like that.

by nathan Sun 7 Apr - 16:16

yappysnap wrote:
Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:Thought exactly that Yappy, that this Munster performance was one very simillar to Sarries yesterday.

But for some reason Sarries performance gets disparaged. I suppose POC and co are just more likeable.

Not taking anything away from Munster though both great performances IMO.

The answer could well be in which team won and lost in these two games...

Oh and Saracens are dirty cheats who fill their squad with South Africans, or some random cowpat like that.

You forgot the pantomime villain Ashton.

by **Pal Joey** Sun 7 Apr - 16:20

Well done Munster. Awesome bossing through the forwards. POC lead the way and his pack gave their all in support. Stag will be thrilled no doubt.

Commiserations Quins fans - just wasn't your day - but the signs were there in the last few matches.

Don't know how much of this result will impact on Gatland's selections but surely he will have been impressed with that Munster work-rate.

by Hood83 Sun 7 Apr - 16:26

Well done Munster, classic Heino performance from you. How on earth do you guys do it?!

I've been bigging up COS for his strategising and his ability to think outside the box to surprise teams...gotta say there was very little evidence of it today. As others have said, how he didn't predict that approach from Munster seems bizarre, and how he didn't prep his players for it equally so. Bit surprised Casson started after dropping numerous clangers agaisnt Glos - was JTH not fit? Might have been a better match up against Downey?

That said, perhaps he did prep them for that and they just couldn't deal with it. I don't think man for man Munster are better than Quins at all, but they were today. Comfortably.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 16:30

Hopefully all of the youngsters will learn from this at least.

Just a few thoughts:

Buchanan did really well when he was on and tbh I don't think it was his throwing that caused us the issues but more the timing in the lineout.

Marler carried well and defended really aggressively.

Monye was great under the high balls, but combined with Brown and Williams they just don't offer the threat out wide that top teams need to draw defenders.

Johnston, Robson and Mo were next to useless.

Nev is looking tired and out of sorts, I don't know what we can do about this as he's our star player. Can't exactly drop him, we'll have to hope the forwards can man up and give him a platform next game.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 16:34

Hood83 wrote:Well done Munster, classic Heino performance from you. How on earth do you guys do it?!

I've been bigging up COS for his strategising and his ability to think outside the box to surprise teams...gotta say there was very little evidence of it today. As others have said, how he didn't predict that approach from Munster seems bizarre, and how he didn't prep his players for it equally so. Bit surprised Casson started after dropping numerous clangers agaisnt Glos - was JTH not fit? Might have been a better match up against Downey?

That said, perhaps he did prep them for that and they just couldn't deal with it. I don't think man for man Munster are better than Quins at all, but they were today. Comfortably.

The problem for CoS is that JTH has been out of sorts and is prone to dropping balls too, at least Casson could (and did once at least) offer a viable kicking game.

Agree the tactics were poor but that's more around the rucks were we were blitzed, utterly blitzed, Munster played the ref to a tee while we just went passive and tried to defend without countering.

I'd disagree with your final paragraph as well. Man for man Munster have more experience then us and where it counts are far better (lock, front row, 12 and backrow). Today their top players were on top form, ours weren't.

by Guest Sun 7 Apr - 16:35

Well done Munster,just like Tigers proof that if you have been there and done it,you will be a fool to write them off.

But no disrespect to Munster or it's fans but this is not a Vintage Munster team,so one has to look at there opposition!
Quins, are living proof the HC is a flawed concept,how such an average team just like Sarries progress out if such easy groups.

Then we have a Group with Tigers Toulouse and Ospreys.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 16:42

Who should have progressed View?

by HongKongCherry Sun 7 Apr - 16:52

viewtothegym wrote:Well done Munster,just like Tigers proof that if you have been there and done it,you will be a fool to write them off.

But no disrespect to Munster or it's fans but this is not a Vintage Munster team,so one has to look at there opposition!
Quins, are living proof the HC is a flawed concept,how such an average team just like Sarries progress out if such easy groups.

Then we have a Group with Tigers Toulouse and Ospreys.

by **George Carlin** Sun 7 Apr - 16:54

viewtothegym wrote:Well done Munster,just like Tigers proof that if you have been there and done it,you will be a fool to write them off.

But no disrespect to Munster or it's fans but this is not a Vintage Munster team,so one has to look at there opposition!
Quins, are living proof the HC is a flawed concept,how such an average team just like Sarries progress out if such easy groups.

Explain please. Headscratch

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 17:21

George Carlin wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:Well done Munster,just like Tigers proof that if you have been there and done it,you will be a fool to write them off.

But no disrespect to Munster or it's fans but this is not a Vintage Munster team,so one has to look at there opposition!
Quins, are living proof the HC is a flawed concept,how such an average team just like Sarries progress out if such easy groups.
Explain please.

They're not a Welsh team?

by Hood83 Sun 7 Apr - 17:26

yappysnap wrote:
Hood83 wrote:Well done Munster, classic Heino performance from you. How on earth do you guys do it?!

I've been bigging up COS for his strategising and his ability to think outside the box to surprise teams...gotta say there was very little evidence of it today. As others have said, how he didn't predict that approach from Munster seems bizarre, and how he didn't prep his players for it equally so. Bit surprised Casson started after dropping numerous clangers agaisnt Glos - was JTH not fit? Might have been a better match up against Downey?

That said, perhaps he did prep them for that and they just couldn't deal with it. I don't think man for man Munster are better than Quins at all, but they were today. Comfortably.

The problem for CoS is that JTH has been out of sorts and is prone to dropping balls too, at least Casson could (and did once at least) offer a viable kicking game.

Agree the tactics were poor but that's more around the rucks were we were blitzed, utterly blitzed, Munster played the ref to a tee while we just went passive and tried to defend without countering.

Not a fan of JTH particularly so if he's on poor form fair enough, just think physically he may have been a better match up. Casson is a more rounded player but he's looked horribly gaffe prone recently.

Defo agree on experience, which perhaps counts most at this level, and also that their 12 and locks are better. The front row and backrow I don't see them as being better. Maybe as a unit the backrow is better, and Mo looks pretty average at the mo, but player for player I don't see anything in it at all. Just my opinion but it's pretty close

I'd disagree with your final paragraph as well. Man for man Munster have more experience then us and where it counts are far better (lock, front row, 12 and backrow). Today their top players were on top form, ours weren't.

by Hood83 Sun 7 Apr - 17:28

Hood83 wrote:
yappysnap wrote:
Hood83 wrote:Well done Munster, classic Heino performance from you. How on earth do you guys do it?!

I've been bigging up COS for his strategising and his ability to think outside the box to surprise teams...gotta say there was very little evidence of it today. As others have said, how he didn't predict that approach from Munster seems bizarre, and how he didn't prep his players for it equally so. Bit surprised Casson started after dropping numerous clangers agaisnt Glos - was JTH not fit? Might have been a better match up against Downey?

That said, perhaps he did prep them for that and they just couldn't deal with it. I don't think man for man Munster are better than Quins at all, but they were today. Comfortably.

The problem for CoS is that JTH has been out of sorts and is prone to dropping balls too, at least Casson could (and did once at least) offer a viable kicking game.

Agree the tactics were poor but that's more around the rucks were we were blitzed, utterly blitzed, Munster played the ref to a tee while we just went passive and tried to defend without countering.

Not a fan of JTH particularly so if he's on poor form fair enough, just think physically he may have been a better match up. Casson is a more rounded player but he's looked horribly gaffe prone recently.

Defo agree on experience, which perhaps counts most at this level, and also that their 12 and locks are better. The front row and backrow I don't see them as being better. Maybe as a unit the backrow is better, and Mo looks pretty average at the mo, but player for player I don't see anything in it at all. Just my opinion but it's pretty close

I'd disagree with your final paragraph as well. Man for man Munster have more experience then us and where it counts are far better (lock, front row, 12 and backrow). Today their top players were on top form, ours weren't.

Sorry, looks like I quoted myself there! What a bighead.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 17:57

Yea maybe not better across the season but in a one off game the experience and units that Munster could field counted.

Their backrow owned the breakdown all second half. Their 10 controlled the game and their front row scrummed and mauled brilliantly when needed. Downey was huge.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 17:57

Oh and yes quoting yourself is poor form Wink

but i'll assume it was a mistake...

by Guest Sun 7 Apr - 18:40

Congrats, Munster!! Yahoo

Cheered me up after the loss (Ulster) yesterday.

by Heaf Sun 7 Apr - 18:53

LondonTiger wrote:I reckon Garces had some random penalty generator running - because his decision making seemed to bear no relation to what was happening and was woefully inconsistent. Did not affect the result of the game thankfully as the better team on th eday won.

Agreed LT, there was one he gave Munster for Quins binding on the arm where right in front of him you could see the Munster no.3 binding on Marler's arm. His reffing of the breakdown seemed a bit odd at times too regarding releasing the tackled player. But Munster deserved it as they seemed more fired up for it and the Quins lineout problems cost them dear. POC must have played his way into the Lions based on his performance today surely.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 7 Apr - 18:53

Apparently there are Quins fans complaining that there was too many Munster fans there.

by Guest Sun 7 Apr - 19:07

So he SouthAfricsons are the only side to Save the English blushes in the HC!

Also the Welsh regions should look to Munster proving money is not all you need to progress in the HC just play like you want it.

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 19:12

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Apparently there are Quins fans complaining that there was too many Munster fans there.

Chinese whispers.

It's season ticket holders complaining that they're seats weren't available as they'd been allocated to Munster fans. Also unhappy that other Quins STH had sold tickets to Munster fans.

by Thomond Sun 7 Apr - 19:32

Thomond wrote:We need a big day from our pack to do it, it's possible, there's a lot to like about the forwards but even when they play well they don't seem to get the dominance the teams of old had, in a one of game it's possible, ROG's distance is pretty shot but he is still pretty accurate from hand, the lineout is a tricky one, Ryan and POC haven't played together since Racing Metro, hard for Sherry to get used to the both but POM being there might help a bit.

Should be interesting no matter what happens.

Quoting myself, like a big arrogant basterd but I'm from Cork so ah well. Basically what I wrote above and didn't think would happen, happened we did what Saracens did yesterday and Harlequins struggled to adapt. The thing is though, Munster haven't shown they are capable of playing that game successfully in a while, and I can't remember when they were that dominant over a pack, Saracens at home came close but even then we wrode our luck somewhat.

ROG will deservedly get a fair few plaudits, his kicking was very accurate from hand, his drop offs were a joy to watch, what won't get credit though is our kick chase, I can't recall many teams executing a kick chase better than today. Our pack were immense, showed the hunger and effort, that Ulster lacked yesterday. I was talking to Notch on Twitter earlier on and saying that the backrow lacks star names but it has incredible balance. Nick Williams yesterday was a luxury, he offers little at the breakdown and Henry was doing everything himself, Henderson wasn't too effective neither were the rest of the forward. As a coach and player, I say the pack should hunt as 8, work as a group, Munster did that, their backrow have a great mixture of carrying ability, lineout operators and breakdown operators.

I still don't know if ROG is the man for ASM, mainly because if we try that gameplan against ASM I think we will get battered, their pack is superb.

Happily eating my humble pie anyway.

by Artful_Dodger Sun 7 Apr - 19:32

Have a seat Mike Brown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2m3U60K7Dc

by glamorganalun Sun 7 Apr - 19:44

Where did that performance come from, Munster have been poor for two years in the RABO (by their standards), well done. I can't see them winning as they need to score tries but good luck, you are leading the charge for the RABO.

by Hood83 Sun 7 Apr - 19:44

yappysnap wrote:Yea maybe not better across the season but in a one off game the experience and units that Munster could field counted.

Their backrow owned the breakdown all second half. Their 10 controlled the game and their front row scrummed and mauled brilliantly when needed. Downey was huge.

Yeah, can't disagree with any of that.

by Hood83 Sun 7 Apr - 19:47

viewtothegym wrote:So he SouthAfricsons are the only side to Save the English blushes in the HC!

Also the Welsh regions should look to Munster proving money is not all you need to progress in the HC just play like you want it.

Maybe your Welsh regions should bring in a few Boks, might have spared your own blushes that way Wink

by Guest Sun 7 Apr - 19:49

Hood83 wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:So he SouthAfricsons are the only side to Save the English blushes in the HC!

Also the Welsh regions should look to Munster proving money is not all you need to progress in the HC just play like you want it.

Maybe your Welsh regions should bring in a few Boks, might have spared your own blushes that way

by Gibson Sun 7 Apr - 19:50

yappysnap wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Apparently there are Quins fans complaining that there was too many Munster fans there.

Chinese whispers.

It's season ticket holders complaining that they're seats weren't available as they'd been allocated to Munster fans. Also unhappy that other Quins STH had sold tickets to Munster fans.

Munster have been doing that for years. They are famous for it.

It really backfired in 2009 though. 1000's of tickets wasted for the 2009 Final in Edinburgh. They were good to us Leinster fans though. A lot of our crew went on Munster-bought tickets...

ASM beware, there will be some Munster fans trawling for tickets down in the Centraal Massief, as we speak.

by Artful_Dodger Sun 7 Apr - 19:52

He's a Scarlets fan and they have as many South Africans as anybody else at the minute (Snyman, Earle and Adriaanse)

by Thomond Sun 7 Apr - 19:53

You can't blame Munster fans for buying tickets for sale though, if you're a fan why are you selling your tickets to the other club? Munster always get a decent allocation but we have our ways of gettign more tickets.

Turnips are as rare as gold in some countries, I'll have you know

by yappysnap Sun 7 Apr - 20:14

The anger on the Quins offy is more at STH's selling them on to Munster fans then at the Munster fans.

And obviously the Quins fans being very upset and venting. I'm sure the same happens for every club, no need for some to laugh at it though.

by **rodders** Sun 7 Apr - 20:20

Well, well, well ....Munster to the rescue of Irish rugby again! Shocked

Well done lads, DOD, Sin e, Stag, Thom et al have a guinness

on me

by Artful_Dodger Sun 7 Apr - 20:23

rodders wrote:Well, well, well ....Munster to the rescue of Irish rugby again!

Well done lads, DOD, Sin e, Stag, Thom et al have a on me

Ditto - I'll be honest, I'd written Munster off this season. Silly me.

by SecretFly Sun 7 Apr - 20:45

I was like Paul O'Connell today for some reason. For some reason, that Munster win meant a lot to me - a lot. Hit me emotionally..loved hearing Paul mimic my attitude ....... I was absolutely delighted. Couldn't stop laughing to myself as I tried to find a mains leak on my property!

So I didn't get to see the game live as I was digging hard at the time but instantly my mood lifted sky high when I checked the result. Saw highlights later...they looked bloody good! Fooling us for a few weeks??!! Basterauds. You can't just play like that suddenly when everyone has been telling you for weeks/months that you're crud.

Irish rugby needed that - and the Leinster win earlier - to re-energise us after the dreadful International efforts. Pity about Ulster. Congratulations Munster. Now go one better and surprise people again with another final appearance!

by The Great Aukster Sun 7 Apr - 20:59

Never write Munster off, despite how deluded some of their fans like Sin e or DOD are. Great performance from POC, but POM needs a mention for a massive second half where he was the player some of us were waiting for. He now has a lot to live up to.

by SecretFly Sun 7 Apr - 21:12

The Great Aukster wrote:Never write Munster off, despite how deluded some of their fans like Sin e or DOD are. Great performance from POC, but POM needs a mention for a massive second half where he was the player some of us were waiting for. He now has a lot to live up to.

You can't just learn that team performance on the day, that was too bright and purposeful to be just passion and emotion. I think Penny and the Munster guys might be much more astute than perhaps people were thinking.

Yes, still lots to work on...and certainly consistency of that effort is there to be worked on too. But I think they must be doing a lot more in training than they're bringing to the field in Pro12 this season. Quietly preparing for a more bullish year next year??

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