Joe Schmidt Irelands new coach???

by Ledge the ledgebag Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:00 am

First topic message reminder :

Well Joe has now said he would be interested in what the irfu have to say,IF, leinster release him. He sounds quiet keen. He is now the bookies favourite at 8/15. Interestingly enough, Paddy Power closed all bets on who is to become the next Ireland coach today for a few hours as a large number of people had decided to bet on Joe Schmidt. ?????????

by SecretFly Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:28 pm

Sin é wrote:

Prior to Schmidt moving to Leinster, his team didn't qualify for the knock-out stages of the Heineken Cup because Munster knocked them out twice at the pool stages and Leinster knocked them out the following year.

That's progress, I reckon. Poor Clermont are still knocking on the door for their first and Schmidt has moved on. I blame the Clermont players.............. it's always the players ain't it??? Wink

by SecretFly Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:32 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
GunsGerms wrote: Indeed this is Schmidts second spell living in Ireland.

When was his first?

When he coached Mullingar RFC and was a teacher in Multifarnham school. Its where it all began.

Hmmm, never knew that. So 606 is good for more than badger baiting and inter-provincial fist fighting then!

by geoff998rugby Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:58 pm

Paul Marshall will never be a serious contender - some Ulster rose-tinted glasses.

He is at best a super sub - better option than Reddan who just comes on and changes nothing. He can turn a game - sometimes you don't know which way though.

by GunsGerms Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:07 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:Paul Marshall will never be a serious contender - some Ulster rose-tinted glasses.

He is at best a super sub - better option than Reddan who just comes on and changes nothing. He can turn a game - sometimes you don't know which way though.

Dont agree. Both better passers than Murray. Both have better skill sets and are better decision makers than Murray however neither are as physical as Murray.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:13 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:Paul Marshall will never be a serious contender - some Ulster rose-tinted glasses.

He is at best a super sub - better option than Reddan who just comes on and changes nothing. He can turn a game - sometimes you don't know which way though.

Dont agree. Both better passers than Murray. Both have better skill sets and are better decision makers than Murray however neither are as physical as Murray.

Disagree with both of you.

1) I believe Reddan changes a game when he comes on a lot.
2) Murray is a better passer than he is given credit for, his coaches to date have been ones that have stunted his development I believe.
3) His decision making still needs some work. James Downey was unmarked in the final few minutes of the game on Sunday on the right wing, he was going to run that in for a try or at least get very close

by Sin é Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:19 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:Paul Marshall will never be a serious contender - some Ulster rose-tinted glasses.

He is at best a super sub - better option than Reddan who just comes on and changes nothing. He can turn a game - sometimes you don't know which way though.

Dont agree. Both better passers than Murray. Both have better skill sets and are better decision makers than Murray however neither are as physical as Murray.

Coincidentally from The Rugby Site Blog today:

Conor Murray, Scrum-half, age 23

........ In what turned out to be a calamitous Six Nations for Ireland, Conor Murray’s reputation was probably enhanced with a string of consistent performances in an otherwise faltering team. Murray has matured nicely since his impressive cameos in the World Cup in 2011 and is probably the first Irish scrum-half to unequivocally nail down the no.9 jersey since Peter Stringer’s run in the team in the early 2000’s. Murray’s strengths are in his defence and sniping ability, key areas of a scum half’s game which often go unmentioned or overlooked. His passing and kicking ability are where they should be for international rugby and he seems to have a decent head on his shoulders. Murray should be a no-brainer for Gatland and if Phillips was to get injured he would be a capable replacement, not to mention a previous winner against Australia.

http://www.therugbysite.com/blog_posts/359-5-youngsters-the-lions-must-select-for-australia-by-rr

Whether you agree with his point or not looks like the neutral rates his pass and his head.

by SecretFly Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:21 pm

I think Murray might excel under a bit of Schmidt. All he needs is a bit more...well, what does Schmidt say he says to Madigan? "Don't go out and try to be Sexton..go out there and play it your way. Be confident"

Murray only needs to inject more tempo and mix it up a little more. He can do most of it but it happens too often at a few gears below the necessary. Schmidt would speed that up.

by Sin é Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:26 pm

SecretFly wrote:I think Murray might excel under a bit of Schmidt. All he needs is a bit more...well, what does Schmidt say he says to Madigan? "Don't go out and try to be Sexton..go out there and play it your way. Be confident"

Murray only needs to inject more tempo and mix it up a little more. He can do most of it but it happens too often at a few gears below the necessary. Schmidt would speed that up.

Hmmm, Schmidt hasn't been able to iron out certain weaknesses in both Reddan & Boss's game who are more relevant in this discussion than Madigan.

On Madigan, it will be interesting to see how he works out for Leinster. Could be back to the old Contempomi days of mad rugby, but winning little. It will be interesting to see how he does against Munster next weekend.

by **rodders** Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:26 pm

Disagree with all of you.

Paul Marshall is a better box kicker than Pienaar, a better passer than Stringer, as strong as O'Leary and as quick as Zebo.

Ireland and Ulster have made a big misjudgement on him. He could be the best in the NH.

by GunsGerms Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:34 pm

rodders wrote:Disagree with all of you.

Paul Marshall is a better box kicker than Pienaar, a better passer than Stringer, as strong as O'Leary and as quick as Zebo.

Ireland and Ulster have made a big misjudgement on him. He could be the best in the NH.

He is not a better passer than Stringer but close enough on the other three.

by **rodders** Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:36 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
rodders wrote:Disagree with all of you.

Paul Marshall is a better box kicker than Pienaar, a better passer than Stringer, as strong as O'Leary and as quick as Zebo.

Ireland and Ulster have made a big misjudgement on him. He could be the best in the NH.

He is not a better passer than Stringer but close enough on the other three.

Come on Guns if a man can't exaggerate on an internet forum when can he..... Whistle

by SecretFly Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:48 pm

Sin é wrote:

Hmmm, Schmidt hasn't been able to iron out certain weaknesses in both Reddan & Boss's game who are more relevant in this discussion than Madigan.

Yeah...he's been trying to work on Redden for a while now and still can't work out how to make him 6' 2". I blame the player though. Redden shouldn't have to need a coach running after him to know he'd probably be better physically if he had another few inches and pounds on him. Players not doing enough preparations is the big issue with Ireland and Province still.

Meanwhile, the two of them together (Redden and Boss's Laugh-In) they do okay for now.

Madigan? Well he isn't relevant to this topic Wink

by Sin é Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Hmmm, Schmidt hasn't been able to iron out certain weaknesses in both Reddan & Boss's game who are more relevant in this discussion than Madigan.

Yeah...he's been trying to work on Redden for a while now and still can't work out how to make him 6' 2". I blame the player though. Redden shouldn't have to need a coach running after him to know he'd probably be better physically if he had another few inches and pounds on him. Players not doing enough preparations is the big issue with Ireland and Province still.

Meanwhile, the two of them together (Redden and Boss's Laugh-In) they do okay for now.

Madigan? Well he isn't relevant to this topic

The problem with Reddan is that he can become a headless chicken and in every game makes a major mistake.

So, how come Schmidt hasn't been able to sort out Boss's game (should be easy considering he is a kiwi also)?

by **rodders** Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:56 pm

A chicken and kiwi walked into a bar.....

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:01 am

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Hmmm, Schmidt hasn't been able to iron out certain weaknesses in both Reddan & Boss's game who are more relevant in this discussion than Madigan.

Yeah...he's been trying to work on Redden for a while now and still can't work out how to make him 6' 2". I blame the player though. Redden shouldn't have to need a coach running after him to know he'd probably be better physically if he had another few inches and pounds on him. Players not doing enough preparations is the big issue with Ireland and Province still.

Meanwhile, the two of them together (Redden and Boss's Laugh-In) they do okay for now.

Madigan? Well he isn't relevant to this topic

The problem with Reddan is that he can become a headless chicken and in every game makes a major mistake.

So, how come Schmidt hasn't been able to sort out Boss's game (should be easy considering he is a kiwi also)?

Boss? We still play him. He ain't perfect. Neither is Murray. Back to the point. Murray IS capable of speeding up everything he does; and he showed it at the weekend. Speeded up means more impulse power (to use Star Trek engineering speak). IF Schmidt got the Ireland job, I think he'd hold onto Muarray easily enough AND speed him up on a more regular basis. simply by telling him that's what he expects and will demand. No tactics, no blackboard...just actually communicating the notion that tempo gives less time to the opposition to think and prepare.
It's not rocket science. And don't worry, he won't just pick on Murray, as the whole team need to have the same thoughts for anything to work.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:15 am

You also need superb fitness and bearing in mind that international rugby is 20% faster than club rugby, upping the tempo anymore might not be the wisest thing to do.

Boss has the same physical attributes as Murray, how come Schmidt hasn't got him to be less predictable?

by **rodders** Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:22 am

Sin é wrote:
Boss has the same physical attributes as Murray, how come Schmidt hasn't got him to be less predictable?

What you mean coach him to kick the ball away or attack down the blindside when everyone else expects him to to go the side where the big overlap is?

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:24 am

Sin é wrote:You also need superb fitness and bearing in mind that international rugby is 20% faster than club rugby, upping the tempo anymore might not be the wisest thing to do.

Boss has the same physical attributes as Murray, how come Schmidt hasn't got him to be less predictable?

Upping the tempo from Ireland's usual is very doable, Sin... Extremely viable. Boss is our Physical, still quick enough too. Redden is our more arty and fast guy. I said it before. We need two at the moment, Murray is a viable one.

You want to hit the slur you think I make and you don't see the point I am truly making. Murray is a much more effective player than he's proven to date at International. And he doesn't need a super-Schmidt rugby text book of imposed attributes to get him there, just more tempo. Schmidt wouldn't have to do much with him at all. Just as it should be of course as it's the players wot do it or don't do it, isn't it??

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:25 am

I just think Schmidt could have thought him to pass the ball every now and again!

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:30 am

Sin é wrote:I just think Schmidt could have thought him to pass the ball every now and again!

Boss does ...every now and again. Wink

Eyes will help you see that if you watch closely enough.

I won't have a bad word spoken about Schmidt though! No, not a blessed word! What's he meant to do, coach???? That's laughable? A Coach should be trying to tell a player how to do things? Why does Boss always get things wrong? Schmidt isn't on the pitch. Schmidt can't be blamed in purist Irish Coaching principles Wink

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 am

I think Boss is pretty good, although his current form is poor. He is a very good decision maker most of all and he can adapt his game really effectively, he can attack the fringes and offload or he can sling it off the deck, that ability to be good at two things (ok not amazing but good) and more that he can use these two skills at the right moment makes him a good (not amazing) scrumhalf.

by ME-109 Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:03 am

rodders wrote:Disagree with all of you.

Paul Marshall is a better box kicker than Pienaar, a better passer than Stringer, as strong as O'Leary and as quick as Zebo.

Ireland and Ulster have made a big misjudgement on him. He could be the best in the NH.

You forgot the big advantage Marshall has....his bobbly head. Amazing stuff you wouldn't even need a toy. Just stick paul in the back window of the car.

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

by Thomond Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:04 am

Felix Jones and Paul Marshall are certainties for an Irish bobblehead team or competition.

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:14 am

DOD wrote:

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

Thus Sin brought them up when Murray was the only one getting discussed.......

by ME-109 Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:16 am

SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

Thus Sin brought them up when Murray was the only one getting discussed.......

was it a discussion on how not to be a scrumhalf? redden and boss would be good examples

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:20 am

DOD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

Thus Sin brought them up when Murray was the only one getting discussed.......

was it a discussion on how not to be a scrumhalf? redden and boss would be good examples

Nope. No, it wasn't, DOD. But if you want to chat about players who weren't being chatted about until Sin brought them up.... fine. Have a chat with Sin about them, he seems interested in yesterday's men.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:26 am

DOD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

Thus Sin brought them up when Murray was the only one getting discussed.......

was it a discussion on how not to be a scrumhalf? redden and boss would be good examples

It was a discussion on how effective Schmidt is in upskilling players - i.e., I don't recall any improvement in either Reddan or Boss since they moved to Leinster.

The best Irish scrumhalf (passing and brain) was developed by Declan Kidney (who coached him from about the age of 12).

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:31 am

Sin é wrote:
DOD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

Thus Sin brought them up when Murray was the only one getting discussed.......

was it a discussion on how not to be a scrumhalf? redden and boss would be good examples

It was a discussion on how effective Schmidt is in upskilling players - i.e., I don't recall any improvement in either Reddan or Boss since they moved to Leinster.

The best Irish scrumhalf (passing and brain) was developed by Declan Kidney (who coached him from about the age of 12).

Are we talking BEST now? You moved the goalposts again, Sin...naughty,naughty. Is that the scrumhalf who Munster didn't have a need for and was sent shipping around England looking for temporary homes..Bath is to become his permanent one?

You won't hear me say a bad word about him. He should have still been playing for Ireland some two or three years after he got the 'sack'. Who 'sacked' him, his mentor?

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:42 am

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
DOD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:

Cant believe the discussion on boss and redden...yesterdays men

Thus Sin brought them up when Murray was the only one getting discussed.......

was it a discussion on how not to be a scrumhalf? redden and boss would be good examples

It was a discussion on how effective Schmidt is in upskilling players - i.e., I don't recall any improvement in either Reddan or Boss since they moved to Leinster.

The best Irish scrumhalf (passing and brain) was developed by Declan Kidney (who coached him from about the age of 12).

Are we talking BEST now? You moved the goalposts again, Sin...naughty,naughty. Is that the scrumhalf who Munster didn't have a need for and was sent shipping around England looking for temporary homes..Bath is to become his permanent one?

You won't hear me say a bad word about him. He should have still been playing for Ireland some two or three years after he got the 'sack'. Who 'sacked' him, his mentor?

OK, I'll simply it for you:

Fly says: Schmidt will improve Murray when he get his hands on him as Ireland head coach.
Sin é: He didn't improve Reddan or Boss and he has a lot more access to them than he will have with Murray. In fact, the best scrumhalf to come out of Ireland in the last number of years was coached from a young age by the former Ireland coach, Declan Kidney (and the one just after him - selected for the B+I Lion was also developed by the sacked international coach).
Fly: you are moving the goal posts! Very Happy

Sin é: You always say that when you lose the debate.

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:19 am

Sin é wrote:

OK, I'll simply it for you:

Fly says: Schmidt will improve Murray when he get his hands on him as Ireland head coach.
Sin é: He didn't improve Reddan or Boss and he has a lot more access to them than he will have with Murray. In fact, the best scrumhalf to come out of Ireland in the last number of years was coached from a young age by the former Ireland coach, Declan Kidney (and the one just after him - selected for the B+I Lion was also developed by the sacked international coach).
Fly: you are moving the goal posts!
Sin é: You always say that when you lose the debate.

Very simple and completely wrong. Wink

But you already know that.

This is the truth:

Before Fly arrives a disccusion is already taking place where someone suggests Murray might lose out in a Schmidt contolled Ireland International.
Fly says: Oh I think he'd find it very easy to hold onto Murray as he wouldn't have to do too much with him to improve him. Namely, all he'd have to do is to ensure Murray always played at a higher tempo during International games. Murray does most things right but just operates a little too slowly. All Schmidt would need is words.
Sin é says: If Schmidt is so good, how come he can't improve Redden and Boss
Fly says: Redden ain't Murray as in he isn't 6'2" and a genuine physical presence who has most of the qualities you'd want except consistent high tempo
Sin é repeats: So how come Schmidt can't get Boss to pass?
Fly says: Boss does pass
DOD says: Who thinks yesterday's men Redden and Boss should be getting discussed here???
Fly says: Talk to Sin, he's interested in them.

Reminder: the first highlighted sentence remains the most important one.

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:22 am

Who sacked the Best, Sin é? I haven't forgot that either. Wink

Answer when ready.

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:05 pm

It's all pretty simple really, Murray will excel if he has a coach that allows his to play to his strengths. Apart from a horrific performance away to Metro he has been the most improved Irish player in provincial rugby. He has been really excellent for Munster this season, coached by Penny. Murray, aside from a good kicking performance against France, had a poor to average Six Nations. The irish coaching setup, headed by Kidney but I would also point alot of blame here at Smal, don't want a scrum half to move the ball quickly from the base of the ruck. They don't want to use a physical 9 to dart around the margins. They want a Pienaar clone to play a South African game plan without a pack that can do the work, or a 10 that can control the match in that manner. If you just watched Murray for Munster you'd give him consideration for the Lions. If you watch him for Ireland he wouldn't be considered in a million years.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:Who sacked the Best, Sin é? I haven't forgot that either. Answer when ready.

First of all I love strings more for his brain than his pass. He is just brilliant at marshalling a pack - they don't need to think with him around. Strings doesn't have the physicallity though and that is why he got 'sacked'. Interesting comment from Laurie Fisher (who used to be the Munster forwards coach and is now with Jake White and the Brumbies) on twitter last week. (He tweets a good bit). Someone asked him about Munster and what happened in the Semi final against Leinster in '09. He put it down to Munster losing Tomas O'Leary (who was replaced by Strings).

By the way, its nice to see how Laurie seems to have really loved his time in Munster and has huge respect for everyone still there - always posting about what a great team, supporters etc. Munster have.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:35 pm

Hookie, The Rugby Site (kiwi website with bloggers like Wayne Smith etc) on Murray this week seem to think Murray had a good 6Ns.

In what turned out to be a calamitous Six Nations for Ireland, Conor Murray’s reputation was probably enhanced with a string of consistent performances in an otherwise faltering team. Murray has matured nicely since his impressive cameos in the World Cup in 2011 and is probably the first Irish scrum-half to unequivocally nail down the no.9 jersey since Peter Stringer’s run in the team in the early 2000’s. Murray’s strengths are in his defence and sniping ability, key areas of a scum half’s game which often go unmentioned or overlooked. His passing and kicking ability are where they should be for international rugby and he seems to have a decent head on his shoulders. Murray should be a no-brainer for Gatland and if Phillips was to get injured he would be a capable replacement, not to mention a previous winner against Australia.

http://www.therugbysite.com/blog_posts/359-5-youngsters-the-lions-must-select-for-australia-by-rr

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:36 pm

Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

by GunsGerms Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:48 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

You still talking about ROG Sin?

Who would you like to have as Ireland coach if not Schmidt? Surely not Kidney?

by **rodders** Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:07 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

That would only be true if the players were already operating at 100% capacity in the HEC. In which case they are operating at 120% at international level, which is mathematically impossible.

Therefore if Edwards theorum is correct then the players can only be working at a maximum of 80% capacity at provincial level.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:43 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

You still talking about ROG Sin?

Who would you like to have as Ireland coach if not Schmidt? Surely not Kidney?

I think its irrelevant who coaches Ireland - far more significant is that Paul O'Connell is back.

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:46 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

NOT WITH IRELAND it isn't, Sin. How many times do I have to say that? We don't push teams hard enough (tempo wise) long enough. We don't. We sit back and take their heat (tempo).

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:47 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

That would only be true if the players were already operating at 100% capacity in the HEC. In which case they are operating at 120% at international level, which is mathematically impossible.

Therefore if Edwards theorum is correct then the players can only be working at a maximum of 80% capacity at provincial level.

Who mentioned what capacity they are working at? The point he made was that the tempo of the game was up 20%. Thats why some players look great at club level, but don't look so great at international level. There are lots of very good HCup players that are not internationals.

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:50 pm

Sin é wrote:

I think its irrelevant who coaches Ireland - far more significant is that Paul O'Connell is back.

Another Celtic hero to save us? Paul O'Connell won't save Ireland all on his own. He'll have to have a team around him playing real rugby. And that will require a coach with a blueprint that works. You really do have a tough time appreciating the fact that coaches do have to Work for their money, Sin é. The IRFU isn't that generous that it willingly pays for cheerleaders in the dressing rooms.

by Sin é Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:55 pm

Are you saying that it doesn't matter if you are missing a few players like POC or BOD? That Schmidt will come up with a gameplan that their absence will be irrelevant?

And there was I thinking the reason that Leinster is playing in the Amlin is because they were missing a few players earlier in the season (like SOB) who would have made a difference in their games against Exeter & Scarlets, if not against Clermont!

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:00 pm

Sin é wrote:Hookie, The Rugby Site (kiwi website with bloggers like Wayne Smith etc) on Murray this week seem to think Murray had a good 6Ns.

In what turned out to be a calamitous Six Nations for Ireland, Conor Murray’s reputation was probably enhanced with a string of consistent performances in an otherwise faltering team. Murray has matured nicely since his impressive cameos in the World Cup in 2011 and is probably the first Irish scrum-half to unequivocally nail down the no.9 jersey since Peter Stringer’s run in the team in the early 2000’s. Murray’s strengths are in his defence and sniping ability, key areas of a scum half’s game which often go unmentioned or overlooked. His passing and kicking ability are where they should be for international rugby and he seems to have a decent head on his shoulders. Murray should be a no-brainer for Gatland and if Phillips was to get injured he would be a capable replacement, not to mention a previous winner against Australia.

http://www.therugbysite.com/blog_posts/359-5-youngsters-the-lions-must-select-for-australia-by-rr

Good for them Sin. The vast majority of rugby fans and the press don't agree. He isn't going to get past Care, Youngs, Laidlaw and Phillips based on his Irish form. He just hasn't done it consistently whatsoever for Ireland. For Munster though he has been very good nearly all season. He has a good, accurate pass most of the time. His kicking is improving all the time. He just needs to improve his decision making which is still quite poor. That is down to a lack of experience and he will only continue to improve this part of the game.

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:03 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

That would only be true if the players were already operating at 100% capacity in the HEC. In which case they are operating at 120% at international level, which is mathematically impossible.

Therefore if Edwards theorum is correct then the players can only be working at a maximum of 80% capacity at provincial level.

I like your mathematical theories Rodders and which to subscribe to your newsletter. I mean, you are no Scott Steiner when it comes to science, but you are the closest thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFoC3TR5rzI

by SecretFly Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:12 pm

Sin é wrote:Are you saying that it doesn't matter if you are missing a few players like POC or BOD? That Schmidt will come up with a gameplan that their absence will be irrelevant?

And there was I thinking the reason that Leinster is playing in the Amlin is because they were missing a few players earlier in the season (like SOB) who would have made a difference in their games against Exeter & Scarlets, if not against Clermont!

Are you really telling me that players don't dip into and out of 'form' - or to put it in plain English, have bad days at the office?

Leinster weren't clicking at the beginning of the season, and they haven't genuinely played great all season. So that might be injuries upsetting rhythm, that might be players minds in a Lions year, that might be just many mini issues conspiring to churn out a bad year. Schmidt had a lot of work to do to try to steady the ship and turn it around. You could see it in his body language through the year that he was worried about the number of problems he had to balance.

BUT - it was him doing it, and his other coaches. Him...not BOD telling him how to fix it or SOB saying sorry. Him...coaching; that bit by bit steadied the ship and brought it round to some sort of respectable conclusion.

If O'Connell is all that's ever needed to win a game, where was he for Glasgow? He was there playing. These men aren't Gods - they don't just perform always because they have their superman costumes on. They play well, they play badly. A coach has to work around those constant issues and come up with solutions. O'Connell won't save Ireland.

by GunsGerms Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:15 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

You still talking about ROG Sin?

Who would you like to have as Ireland coach if not Schmidt? Surely not Kidney?

I think its irrelevant who coaches Ireland - far more significant is that Paul O'Connell is back.

Thats pretty funny. Obviously its relevant. So you wouldnt care if say Tana Umaga was given the Ireland job?

It is great that POC is back. Its unlikely we will have a lock as good for a while.

by Mickado Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:29 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, Hookism, exactly...the entire gameplan will need a facelift in order for a player like Murray to excel. And I told Sin that. Schmidt won't be just looking at Murray's game in isolation, he'll be thinking of quickening up the whole process (all players) - of which Murray, or whoever gets the role, will be of high significance in allowing a certain tempo to prosper.

You keep forgetting that the tempo is already up 20% to what it is in HCup (thats according to Shaun Edwards). You'd need 15 substitutions at half time if you were to do that. O'Gara is often complimented for his game management because he knows when to give his forwards a breather.

That would only be true if the players were already operating at 100% capacity in the HEC. In which case they are operating at 120% at international level, which is mathematically impossible.

Therefore if Edwards theorum is correct then the players can only be working at a maximum of 80% capacity at provincial level.

Shuan Edwards, coach of Wales. Welsh teams up the tempo far more than 20% of HC levels when they play test rugby, but Welsh provincial teams aren't exactly setting eurpoe alight...

by RubyGuby Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:57 pm

SecretFly wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:C'mon Fly, in a cup competition it's on the day - I take it you missed the Munster/Glasgow game a couple of weeks ago - A big win over the mighty Wasps; now that is something to celebrate

Oh I saw Glasgow, Ruby...I saw Glasgow. I didn't see them where Munster and Leinster were though

A Cup Competition is on the day - correct. And you need a pretty consistent run of them to get to European semi-finals - kinda like condensed Pro12. But of course, you're also right in that those particular 'cup competitions' mean nothing now as Glasgow runs rampant in Pro12?? .

So yep, Munster in a big form dip - certainly - so true. A Big one. And Leinster having a forgettable year (by their standards).

But, the Munster I saw at the weekend wasn't the one that lost to Glasgow - now was it? And the 'waning' Leinster put the highest score on Wasps this season at their home...and the highest margin of 20 points. Neither Saracens, Harlequins nor Northampton (the only other sides that beat them at home) could manage either of those results, and them in their fine AP prime'n'all...

I couldn't agree more

Munster and Leinster , way below their past best according to all of us, still representing the Pro12 in Europe, as the giant killers of Pro12 concentrate on more important things

'Waning' should be taught on the training field, it seems to produce results. And still Pro12 to go

I couldn't agree more thumbsup

by Golden Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:12 am

The IRFU have confirmed they have approached Schmidt.

http://www.newstalk.ie/IRFU-confirm-Schmidt-approach

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