Who is the top Irish Province?

First topic message reminder :

Currently 3 of the 4 can make a decent claim to be the current top Province

Munster
Have done the best in Europe, into H-cup semi-Finals, but 6th in the Leauge and unlikly to make play offs.

Ulster
Went out in Quarter final in H-cup, 2nd in League and should be in the play offs.

Leinster
Went out earlest in H-cup at group stage, but are into semi final of Almin, 3rd in League and should be in the play offs.

Maybe an inter pro table would help?

Ulster 20 v 19 Munster
Connacht 34 v 6 Leinster (BP)
Ulster 25 v 0 Connacht
Leinster 30 v 21 Munster
Ulster 27 v 19 Leinster
Munster 16-12 Connacht
Munster 24-10 Ulster
Leinster 17-0 Connacht
Munster 22-0 Connacht
Leinster 18-22 Ulster

Still to play
Munster V Leinster
Connacht V Ulster

Team p w l BP Points
Ulster 5 4 1 0 16
Munster 5 3 2 1 13
Leinster 5 2 3 1 9
Connacht 5 1 4 2 6


So inter-pro title is between Ulster and Munster.

Honestly I'm not sure who the top team in Ireland are, the good news is the three are among the top in Europe.

I'd prob still say Leinster are the top team but they are not as far and away the best team as last year, it's close, Ulster 2nd and Munster 3rd, but again its close.

What do you think?

So, is the Heineken Cup all that matters? Or do the other 22+ games we play every season figure into the equation?

I think Leinster are the top team and facing a potentially difficult season of transition next year- Ulster have continued to improve this year and can expect to get better again, and Munster should be fully on the road to recovery before too long. This time next year I think any three could be in Number 1 spot.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:If you went on Munster fans after the Glasgow game you would have seen 99% of Munster fans calling for ROG to retire.

So tell me why exactly were they calling for him to retire....When he left the game the score was 20 - 17 to Glasgow. Unless there were Munster supporters who mistook Duncan Williams and Casey Laulala for ROG? You are talking bullsh.t I am afraid.

Notch wrote:So, is the Heineken Cup all that matters? Or do the other 22+ games we play every season figure into the equation?

I think Leinster are the top team and facing a potentially difficult season of transition next year- Ulster have continued to improve this year and can expect to get better again, and Munster should be fully on the road to recovery before too long. This time next year I think any three could be in Number 1 spot.

Well most people think the HC is the ultimate club competition. Another take might be

Leinster - knocked out before the knockout phase...lost twice to ASM.
Ulster - went backwards as they didn't get past the QF stage with a no show against Saracens.
Munster - made the SF fell just short...played and beat Premiership winners from last year and also leaders in Premiership this year and fell just short against arguably the best team in Europe.

Sure the other 22 games matter and I was disappointed with this year but I get what Penney is doing. Now if we had gone out against Quins you might have a point but I don't see much between the three provinces at the moment. Possibly with Munster on the rise...Ulster haven't pushed on and Leinster could be interesting...

Ulster had a massive injury crisis half way through this season which really hurt us. In one crucial window of the season we lost Bowe, Payne, Williams, Muller and Tuohy and also lost Jackson, Gilroy, L.Marshall, Henderson, Best, and Henry to 6N call ups at the same time.

I think we have progressed this season and next season wait till you see what our youngster such as Henderson and Olding get upto. Not forgetting that L.Marshall and Gilroy are still very green as well. We'll also have Paddy McAllister back, Lutton is starting to perform, as is Allen. Our academy is producing big time and we aren't losing any of the big names except Ferris which was always going to happen.

Notch wrote:So, is the Heineken Cup all that matters? Or do the other 22+ games we play every season figure into the equation?
.

To be fair it's really all about the hc! In gaa terms its like comparing the league with the championship

DOD wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:If you went on Munster fans after the Glasgow game you would have seen 99% of Munster fans calling for ROG to retire.

So tell me why exactly were they calling for him to retire....When he left the game the score was 20 - 17 to Glasgow. Unless there were Munster supporters who mistook Duncan Williams and Casey Laulala for ROG? You are talking bullsh.t I am afraid.

You forgot to note it was Keatley who threw the other intercept....

Ulster this year have;

1) Ended our frankly embarrassing record against Leinster, beating them home and away
2) Won away in France for the first time ever
3) Won our Heineken Cup group for the first ever
4) Established several homegrown players in their early twenties as first choices in their positions
5) Look set to match our best ever league finish of 1st, touch wood.
6) Already won more games total this year than last year- winning percentage has risen from 58% to 75%.

It's been a season of progress. Last year we had a season quite similar to Munsters this year. We had a few big wins in Europe, exceeded expectations on that front and were inconsistent flops in the league.

Pro12 wise we won 12 games and lost 10 and in truth, thats not the level we aspire to. Some great performances in Europe along the way and a Heineken Cup final appearance made it a decent season, but week in week out it was poor enough at times and we peaked far too soon.

This year we've made a major leap forward in terms of consistency. Very disappointing that we did not perform in the quarter-final but if we finish with silverware and a much more consistent record it's a big leap forward.

BlueMuff wrote:

Notch wrote:So, is the Heineken Cup all that matters? Or do the other 22+ games we play every season figure into the equation?
.

To be fair it's really all about the hc! In gaa terms its like comparing the league with the championship

I don't buy into it- like i said we had a marginally better season last year than Munster did this year and I wouldn't consider it an unqualified success had we won the Final instead of losing it because we didn't make the playoffs. Speaking purely from an Ulster point of view, a season where we don't make both the playoffs and the HC knock-outs from here on in is always going to be a disappointment because if you look at the truly great European sides of recent times like Leinster and Clermont they bring it on both fronts and thats where we aspire to be.

Two big games in a thirty game season is no claim to greatness. The magic of the Cup is magic, because anything can happen. The true picture of a sides consistency emerges when you look at the league and Cup together.

Notch wrote:Ulster this year have;

1) Ended our frankly embarrassing record against Leinster, beating them home and away Hurray
2) Won away in France for the first time ever Castres????
3) Won our Heineken Cup group for the first ever great QF though
4) Established several homegrown players in their early twenties as first choices in their positions Does it mean they are good though?
5) Look set to match our best ever league finish of 1st, touch wood.
6) Already won more games total this year than last year- winning percentage has risen from 58% to 75%.

It's been a season of progress. Last year we had a season quite similar to Munsters this year. We had a few big wins in Europe, exceeded expectations on that front and were inconsistent flops in the league.

Pro12 wise we won 12 games and lost 10 and in truth, thats not the level we aspire to. Some great performances in Europe along the way and a Heineken Cup final appearance made it a decent season, but week in week out it was poor enough at times and we peaked far too soon.

This year we've made a major leap forward in terms of consistency. Very disappointing that we did not perform in the quarter-final but if we finish with silverware and a much more consistent record it's a big leap forward.

Last year you got to a final...this year you went out in the QF? If that is progress??? You are still reliant on the SAFFER brigade for leadership and babysitting duties. You have won nothing yet this year....it will be interesting to see if Ulster can back it up and not fall down in the final run in...

Notch wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Notch wrote:So, is the Heineken Cup all that matters? Or do the other 22+ games we play every season figure into the equation?
.

To be fair it's really all about the hc! In gaa terms its like comparing the league with the championship

I don't buy into it- like i said we had a marginally better season last year than Munster did this year and I wouldn't consider it an unqualified success had we won the Final instead of losing it because we didn't make the playoffs. Speaking purely from an Ulster point of view, a season where we don't make both the playoffs and the HC knock-outs from here on in is always going to be a disappointment because if you look at the truly great European sides of recent times like Leinster and Clermont they bring it on both fronts and thats where we aspire to be.

Two big games in a thirty game season is no claim to greatness. The magic of the Cup is magic, because anything can happen. The true picture of a sides consistency emerges when you look at the league and Cup together.

Well er there is the pool games in the HC.....and up until the Glasgow game we had an outside chance of still making the top four in the Pro12...Having said that it comes down to having to perform as well and both Ulster and Leinster failed in that respect....

DOD wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:If you went on Munster fans after the Glasgow game you would have seen 99% of Munster fans calling for ROG to retire.

So tell me why exactly were they calling for him to retire....When he left the game the score was 20 - 17 to Glasgow. Unless there were Munster supporters who mistook Duncan Williams and Casey Laulala for ROG? You are talking bullsh.t I am afraid.

Maybe you should go on the thread yourself and see. I was on Munster fans straight after that game and everyone was calling for ROG to retire so stop talking like you speak for all Munster fans.

I am just stating what the story with the game was....whether they were calling for him to retire or not is their business...so how many was it...all of them...one, two....99% of how many? All I know is that amongst my peers and the crowd after the game last weekend I didn't hear many calling for ROG to quit....

Having said that if ROG stays on next year and we are still reliant on him because JJ hasn't kicked on (God knows Keatley isn't going to) then we are in trouble. However after his comments last weekend (I love coming to France - hint hint) I think that will be the end of him....

Either way he owes us nothing.

Are Henderson, Jackson, Gilroy, Marshall and Olding good? Make your own mind up. I guess if you want them not to be badly enough you'll enlighten us- certainly they've all had impressive starts to their pro careers in their own way. Your saffer point is... ill-informed. Certainly Pienaar has had a poor season and looks jaded, Jackson is the architect of most of our backline moves and has supplanted Pienaar as our main playmaker and Muller has been injured for most of the year.

Last year we got to the Final off the back of an easier quarter-final and a weak semi-final. Circumstances meant we had a lot of player coming back and we didn't bring the intensity, similar to last years final. Whereas last year we had the whole group together fit and firing for the trip to Thomond this year we had too many key players rushed back from injury to play two high-intensity season defining games back to back. Lesson learned.

I'm not making excuses, but this years Ulster team are certainly a better side than last years. We would have been aiming to contest the Final again and the Saracens performance was disappointing. But I can't have dreamt that last year we could have ever coped with even half of the injuries and adversity we faced this year. The mentality has changed- from hopeful outsiders to expecting excellence every time we take to the pitch, not just once or twice a year.

I don't think we're anywhere near the standards we set for ourselves yet, but we're getting closer. This is where we need to back it up and get back to near our best now we've been able to get most of our squad fit again. So we'll know how much better we are this year than last in May. Until then, the facts speak for themselves.

DOD wrote:I am just stating what the story with the game was....whether they were calling for him to retire or not is their business...so how many was it...all of them...one, two....99% of how many? All I know is that amongst my peers and the crowd after the game last weekend I didn't hear many calling for ROG to quit....

Having said that if ROG stays on next year and we are still reliant on him because JJ hasn't kicked on (God knows Keatley isn't going to) then we are in trouble. However after his comments last weekend (I love coming to France - hint hint) I think that will be the end of him....

Either way he owes us nothing.

The ones that were calling for ROG to retire were the ones that were frustrated after an awful season in the Rabo. These are the Munster fans that follow Munster in whatever competition not the ones that just care about the HC.

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Notch wrote:So, is the Heineken Cup all that matters? Or do the other 22+ games we play every season figure into the equation?
.

To be fair it's really all about the hc! In gaa terms its like comparing the league with the championship

I don't buy into it- like i said we had a marginally better season last year than Munster did this year and I wouldn't consider it an unqualified success had we won the Final instead of losing it because we didn't make the playoffs. Speaking purely from an Ulster point of view, a season where we don't make both the playoffs and the HC knock-outs from here on in is always going to be a disappointment because if you look at the truly great European sides of recent times like Leinster and Clermont they bring it on both fronts and thats where we aspire to be.

Two big games in a thirty game season is no claim to greatness. The magic of the Cup is magic, because anything can happen. The true picture of a sides consistency emerges when you look at the league and Cup together.

Well er there is the pool games in the HC.....and up until the Glasgow game we had an outside chance of still making the top four in the Pro12...Having said that it comes down to having to perform as well and both Ulster and Leinster failed in that respect....

And you haven't performed consistently. I mean, you were fine in the HC pool stages. Two good solid wins against Racing and Saracens. If you can play like you did in Clermont every single match regardless of competition and circumstances you will command genuine respect in the rugby world. Right now, you're just a team capable of upping your level for a few big games.

This isn't an insult, I know what its like to be there. A good Cup run and a mediocre league season. I think you've articulated quite well what Munster have gained from this season and its far, far from a write-off. It could be the making of several Munster players. But what is it they say about swallows and summer?

Where Ulster are isn't on top of the pile either- we've reached the stage where we need to deliver a trophy, any trophy. The only Irish team in recent years that has really been able to pull it out in the big games, win silverware AND show that consistency and quality over the course of the season is Leinster and they are still the best until we unseat them. You're just too proud to admit it, but you're nowhere near the level they have set right now.

They could still finish with two cups and us nothing. At the same time, for Ulster to beat Leinster in a Final would be a massive leap forward. Thats the subplot of this thread. The chance of a potential Ulster vs Leinster final will really raise the question of just who is the top Irish province. Hope we can come up with better answers than last year- think we will. But it's all on us. Until we can beat them in a Cup Final it's their right to call themselves the best.

Also JJ hasn't been able to kick on because Penny won't play him. He got MOTM in his first start then had to wait a number of weeks to get a game.

By all accounts he was by far Munster's best player in the B&I semi and that Munster team had players with loads of Rabo experience.

Henderson - Excellent
Gilroy - Good
Marshall - Promising to Good
Olding - Promising....
Jackson - juries out as far as I am concerned.

Re last year I get your little dig at the easier QF...but in Munster its seen as a a game thrown away....ho hum....we probably would have put up a better performance if we had got to the final though...

If Ulster were better they would have made a Semi in the HC.....however the pool was a lot easier for them this year.....

As for injuries, missing players etc...all provinces could argue that point....but some tend not to.

As for the HC given the team we had developing as indicated we were able to come through against Sarries...again I point to the performance of Ulster in the QF. There is a level of consistency there that is inherent in Munster teams...I do think that in the off season we will need to make some astute signings and we do need JJ to work out...because Keatley wont. We are not the finished article but we have the cornerstone of teams gone by......

Archer is showing his earlier promise.... POM is the new leader... second row is a problem so we do need DOC for another year at least....

Problem with Ulster is the leadership aspect....maybe the reason you didn't do so well is because Pienaar was jaded. Afoa was flying all over the place and Mueller was injured.....there is the rub....next year will be interesting...there are no real hard men in the Ulster team anymore....no Matthews or Paddy Johns etc....

Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Also JJ hasn't been able to kick on because Penny won't play him. He got MOTM in his first start then had to wait a number of weeks to get a game.

By all accounts he was by far Munster's best player in the B&I semi and that Munster team had players with loads of Rabo experience.

He is not ready and has fallen away over the last few months....next year will be his time...when he is ready he will be played....am hoping that it is sooner rather than later...I do tend to agree with you that he should have got more chances...but maybe leading the B&I team was the test for him...he is earmarked as one of the next leaders...lets see...

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

We're clearly ahead of Munster this year, DOD. Even if I was to agree with your imagination; imagine how much better Ulster would be over Munster if we did posses these Spartan like warriors?

Personally I think they're all tough as nails. Especially Trimbs

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?..

Dunno, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

We're clearly ahead of Munster this year, DOD. Even if I was to agree with your imagination; imagine how much better Ulster would be over Munster if we did posses these Spartan like warriors?

Personally I think they're all tough as nails. Especially Trimbs

Of course you are....

DOD wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

We're clearly ahead of Munster this year, DOD. Even if I was to agree with your imagination; imagine how much better Ulster would be over Munster if we did posses these Spartan like warriors?

Personally I think they're all tough as nails. Especially Trimbs

Of course you are....

Glad you agree, DOD. It's good to agree

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

We're clearly ahead of Munster this year, DOD. Even if I was to agree with your imagination; imagine how much better Ulster would be over Munster if we did posses these Spartan like warriors?

Personally I think they're all tough as nails. Especially Trimbs

Of course you are....

Glad you agree, DOD. It's good to agree

Always...

Glad to see the drugs are working...

DOD wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

We're clearly ahead of Munster this year, DOD. Even if I was to agree with your imagination; imagine how much better Ulster would be over Munster if we did posses these Spartan like warriors?

Personally I think they're all tough as nails. Especially Trimbs

Of course you are....

Glad you agree, DOD. It's good to agree

Always...

Glad to see the drugs are working...

The old ad hom is great rebuttal, isn't it? Good night, DOD

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:Its true we miss Ferris. What a legend he'd be if he didn't have glass knees. Henderson should develop into that role. The lad is still growing!

Yes... of course...what is the story? is he going to Japan or not or is he feiced?

Just to note I mentioned Paddy Johns and Philip Matthews cos they are two of my favourite players (shock horror - DOD admits to liking players from Ulster)...two of the hardest men ever....the current bunch are only bad imitations...

We're clearly ahead of Munster this year, DOD. Even if I was to agree with your imagination; imagine how much better Ulster would be over Munster if we did posses these Spartan like warriors?

Personally I think they're all tough as nails. Especially Trimbs

Of course you are....

Glad you agree, DOD. It's good to agree

Always...

Glad to see the drugs are working...

The old ad hom is great rebuttal, isn't it? Good night, DOD

Ah jeez......it wasn't exactly a well constructed argument by you...ergo

"Ah jeez......it wasn't exactly a well constructed argument by you...ergo"

I gave you something to argue against, but you agreed with me. So no further argument from me.
Anywho, it has been fun, and I need me beauty sleep, and plenty of it, so once again, good night

I've watched both Munster and Ulster plenty all season and there's no question as to who's ahead of who really.

If the quality of rugby produced throughout the year and the state of still being in contention for silverware is to be totally disregarded and it's all about what side a team comes out of the first stage of European knock-out rugby on, then I guess Edinburgh were a better team than Munster last year, and equally as good as Clermont.

Using a single game as the yardstick for determining where a team is really at, relative to another team who played in a different match, is fairly silly.

These inter-provincial urination contests are always fun to watch from the sidelines.

In terms of which is the 'top' province, surprised nobody has said:

Leinster - Rob Kearney, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Sexton, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien

Ulster - Tommy Bowe

Munster - Conor Murray, Paul O'Connell

ergo.....

If by 'top' you mean 'winning things', it's Leinster.

If by 'top', you mean 'bringing on young IQ players', it's potentially Ulster this season.

If by 'top', you mean successfully producing large, ginger liginds, it's Munster.

If Leinster are going to be in trouble next season because of high profile departures then Munster will be bollixed without the main man ROG no?

It looks like each province has different goals. For Munster its the HC simple as. That might de-grade the Rabo and of course we want to win all our games but players and management in Munster are judged on HC performances.

Do KK mind when they dont win the National League - like hell they couldnt give two flying **vcks.

Do Munster bring 7,000 fans to Wales for a Rabo match?

BlueMuff wrote:It looks like each province has different goals. For Munster its the HC simple as. That might de-grade the Rabo and of course we want to win all our games but players and management in Munster are judged on HC performances.

Obviously....ourselves and Leinster are after the double

Hurling and Football are amateur sports, the league starts in January and ends in April, it's a training exercise before the championship. No team is that arsed when they don't win.

Rugby is a professional sport, clearly a different kettle of fish...

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:It looks like each province has different goals. For Munster its the HC simple as. That might de-grade the Rabo and of course we want to win all our games but players and management in Munster are judged on HC performances.

Obviously....ourselves and Leinster are after the double

Yes Yes

Actually when was the last time Ulster won either

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:It looks like each province has different goals. For Munster its the HC simple as. That might de-grade the Rabo and of course we want to win all our games but players and management in Munster are judged on HC performances.

Obviously....ourselves and Leinster are after the double

Yes Yes

Actually when was the last time Ulster won either

It's the thought that counts DOD

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:It looks like each province has different goals. For Munster its the HC simple as. That might de-grade the Rabo and of course we want to win all our games but players and management in Munster are judged on HC performances.

Obviously....ourselves and Leinster are after the double

Yes Yes

Actually when was the last time Ulster won either

It's the thought that counts DOD

Dod!!! I'm no cork langer

Mickado wrote:Hurling and Football are amateur sports, the league starts in January and ends in April, it's a training exercise before the championship. No team is that arsed when they don't win.

Rugby is a professional sport, clearly a different kettle of fish...

Oh, yes they are. Its just the top teams that are not arsed when they don't win. The little teams see it as a chance to win a bit of silverwear.

For instance, Tipp are playing Killkeny on Sunday in the League Final - I couldn't care less about the result (but it will be good experience for the young Tipp players). Since a lot of Munster supporters would follow GAA as well, the attitude rubs off on other sports.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Hurling and Football are amateur sports, the league starts in January and ends in April, it's a training exercise before the championship. No team is that arsed when they don't win.

Rugby is a professional sport, clearly a different kettle of fish...

Oh, yes they are. Its just the top teams that are not arsed when they don't win. The little teams see it as a chance to win a bit of silverwear.

For instance, Tipp are playing Killkeny on Sunday in the League Final - I couldn't care less about the result (but it will be good experience for the young Tipp players). Since a lot of Munster supporters would follow GAA as well, the attitude rubs off on other sports.

This isn't about supporters, its about the team. Are Munster players not arsed when they don't win the league? This year they've preformed about as admirably as Edinburgh last year, beaten away in a HC semi and nowhere near the rabo playoffs.

Still relying on ROG for your big games and it's looking more and more like he won't be around next year.

One thing this season has shown is that Munster are very dependent on PoC,with him they seem to become a top team again but when he was out they were very average.Maybe that view is a bit simplistic but the performances (even against Glasgow they looked very good for the 1st half but just kept giving away intercepts) took a huge upturn immediately upon his return.

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:It looks like each province has different goals. For Munster its the HC simple as. That might de-grade the Rabo and of course we want to win all our games but players and management in Munster are judged on HC performances.

Obviously....ourselves and Leinster are after the double

Yes Yes

Actually when was the last time Ulster won either

It's the thought that counts DOD

Dod!!! I'm no cork langer

Oops sorry Sin ...er I mean Bluemuff... my bad .....

Have you guys figured out which province is the best yet?

It has been gong for a while now.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:One thing this season has shown is that Munster are very dependent on PoC,with him they seem to become a top team again but when he was out they were very average.Maybe that view is a bit simplistic but the performances (even against Glasgow they looked very good for the 1st half but just kept giving away intercepts) took a huge upturn immediately upon his return.

Munster managed to make the HCup QFs without him, though obviously he is a fantastic player and would make a difference to any team. Look at Leinster without Leo Cullen

Still, we should have POC around for another 2/3 seasons - he isn't likely to fly off to France to feather his nest.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Hurling and Football are amateur sports, the league starts in January and ends in April, it's a training exercise before the championship. No team is that arsed when they don't win.

Rugby is a professional sport, clearly a different kettle of fish...

Oh, yes they are. Its just the top teams that are not arsed when they don't win. The little teams see it as a chance to win a bit of silverwear.

For instance, Tipp are playing Killkeny on Sunday in the League Final - I couldn't care less about the result (but it will be good experience for the young Tipp players). Since a lot of Munster supporters would follow GAA as well, the attitude rubs off on other sports.

This isn't about supporters, its about the team. Are Munster players not arsed when they don't win the league? This year they've preformed about as admirably as Edinburgh last year, beaten away in a HC semi and nowhere near the rabo playoffs.

Still relying on ROG for your big games and it's looking more and more like he won't be around next year.

I'm sure Munster players are arsed, but have lost a lot of experienced players over the last few years like Quinny, MOD and Dougie who kept the Rabo team on the road, and it takes a while to build up that kind of experience again. Munster supporters are aware of that (and in fairness, its not that long ago since Munster won it).

We will really miss ROG, but hopefully Keats will become at least as good a player as Paul Warwick until JJ comes through.

Biltong wrote:Have you guys figured out which province is the best yet?

It has been gong for a while now.

I think the slight majority are saying Leinster as they are in the running for 3 cups this season. Many have noticed that they had a horrible run of injuries for half a season and while this doesn't excuse sub-standard performances in the HCup (Exeter+Scarlets) they have regrouped and are currently in the best situation of the provinces. There has been some mentioning how they could be in trouble next year with no (Isa and Sexton and possibly no BOD)

There is a fair argument in saying Ulster are the best if they beat Leinster on the way to the Rabo Title but to me it seems that some of their supporters would still consider Leinster marginally better. The majority of Ulster fans have said this season was an improvement on last (I'd agree) despite not making it to a HCup final.

The split is pretty venomously half and half on the Munster front. Many are saying that their win ratio this season is appalling, that they are mid table currently and conceded some pretty bad defeats. Others are saying they got the furthest in the HCup and are building for next season. All of the above are true but it is how it is interpreted overall that is causing the prickly issue.

Connacht have hardly been mentioned as they are undisputed 4th in the list however they have performed really well this season and in the league they aren't a million miles off Munster. They have unearthed some really good talent this year and made further strides in Europe beating one of the albeit fading aristocrats of Europe, Biarritz.

Talking about Leinster, what happened to them in the HC this season, by memory they didn't even make the QF?

Biltong wrote:Talking about Leinster, what happened to them in the HC this season, by memory they didn't even make the QF?

Exactly Biltong, exactly ......

Biltong wrote:Talking about Leinster, what happened to them in the HC this season, by memory they didn't even make the QF?

Yes Biltong, Munster beat them to the last QF spot by scoring 2 more tries than they did. They like to say it was Clermont that knocked them out - in fact it was Scarlets/Exeter and Munster.

The Amlin is the new Heino now in the east of ireland.

Biltong wrote:Talking about Leinster, what happened to them in the HC this season, by memory they didn't even make the QF?

Correct, beaten home and away by Clermont. Had we been able to sneak a draw in the away game (lost by 3) we'd have been through, we were well beaten in the home game but kept ourselves in the mix in round 6 by sneaking a losing BP. Many fans (including myself) put our early departure down to two poor games in round 1 and 2, which we won, but only scored 1 try in. We were ultimately knocked out on tries scored (Munster bettered us by 2).

Clermont have shown themselves to be the best team in the comp so far though.

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:Talking about Leinster, what happened to them in the HC this season, by memory they didn't even make the QF?

Yes Biltong, Munster beat them to the last QF spot by scoring 2 more tries than they did. They like to say it was Clermont that knocked them out - in fact it was Scarlets/Exeter and Munster.

The Amlin is the new Heino now in the east of ireland.

I timed my post well