Tuilagi

First topic message reminder :

Have to say, I am a little worried about taking Tuilagi on the Lions now.

This weekend Leicester had almost all the ball, and he was totally anonymous.

If he can not impose himself on a game with 60-70% possession, and it totally outplayed by his own team mate in center - who made countless line breaks and looked dangerous - I do start to worry

dragonbreath wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

beshocked wrote:dragonbreath bear in mind that Manu Tuilagi is only 21. He's still a very young man. Of course he can improve.

Manu looked like the complete package vs NZ. Good pace and power which we already know but good assists for Ashton and Barritt too showed his awareness.

Since then his form dropped for England but he's still a very good player. Not the finished article of course but he has the potential.

A lot of these young Samoan players fall into that mould too

+2

Spot on

While there are many areas in which I agree he could improve. I think what you see is what you get. He will be same type of player at 31 or 32 (there seems to be some confusion among posters about his current age) as he is today.The teams he plays in require no more from him, and with the media and fans telling him how great he is why would what is his motivation

How can you justifiably say this??! Players evolve all the time.

Or disappear off the radar, and there are many examples of just that. If a better more rounded option comes through then Tuillagi will be gone. This is in fact much more common than players evolving, whatever that means exactly. Tuillagi is a basher, it is just of course an opinion but that is all I think he will ever be

There is already a ready made, more experianced, better version of him in Jamie Roberts, guess what the center pairings were for the last Lions tour, and gues who had player of the tour.

Tuilagi is a basher correct. He is already a damned good one. But guess what he is more than that. Already. He can take intercepts e.g the one vs the Abs, he can pick lines e.g the try vs Wales where he did just that off a wilko pass and went over almost untouched, he can go down the wing from long range without being caught e,g the try he scored vs France in last years 6N.

So even now he is more than just a basher that you seem keen for reasons best known to yourself to want to categorise him as. WIth all of those raw materials at his disposal, the fact that he is so young and the good coaching that he will receive, he is much much more likely to evolve into a better player than he alreaddy undoubtedly is than he is to "disappear of the radar"
I can understand why you would want him to though! (which makes you very myopic) p.s this discussion is very little to do with Jamie ROberts who is an excellent player at 12.

So lets get this straight Tuillagi is great because

A. He can take intercepts e.g the one vs the Abs
Translation - He can catch a ball when thrown to him

B. He can pick lines e.g the try vs Wales where he did just that off a wilko pass and went over almost untouched.
Translation - See he can run without bashing into someone

C. he can go down the wing from long range without being caught e,g the try he scored vs France in last years 6N.
Translation - He can run quite fast

I am sorry, I can now see clearly all the stuff I was missing The man is Mike Gibson on steriods and I just couldn't see it. I just feel so foolish

No. You haven't got anything straight there at all. And your tone is churlish. No one is claiming him as "great" not yet at any rate. No one is claiming that he is mike gibson on steorids. This is your first mistake.

Even on your own reductionist "translations" you have to concede that he is not merely a basher but one who can run "quite fast". So you have moved. I'm not sure that i have the patience to contiune to argue with you. Suffice it to say that interceptions involve more than catching a ball thrown "at you", running down the wing from long range at test level against a team like France involves more than just being a quite fast and picking lines that evade tacklers is a hell of a lot more skillful than you have tried to make it out to be.

For goodness sakes man if it were all as easy as you make it out to be we'd all be international test centres!

p.s Risky i would like to clarify something - i'm staying strictly on topic here and ive backed up what ive said with examples.

Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

What makes him a better _____ than Roberts?

Triangulation wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

beshocked wrote:dragonbreath bear in mind that Manu Tuilagi is only 21. He's still a very young man. Of course he can improve.

Manu looked like the complete package vs NZ. Good pace and power which we already know but good assists for Ashton and Barritt too showed his awareness.

Since then his form dropped for England but he's still a very good player. Not the finished article of course but he has the potential.

A lot of these young Samoan players fall into that mould too

+2

Spot on

While there are many areas in which I agree he could improve. I think what you see is what you get. He will be same type of player at 31 or 32 (there seems to be some confusion among posters about his current age) as he is today.The teams he plays in require no more from him, and with the media and fans telling him how great he is why would what is his motivation

How can you justifiably say this??! Players evolve all the time.

Or disappear off the radar, and there are many examples of just that. If a better more rounded option comes through then Tuillagi will be gone. This is in fact much more common than players evolving, whatever that means exactly. Tuillagi is a basher, it is just of course an opinion but that is all I think he will ever be

There is already a ready made, more experianced, better version of him in Jamie Roberts, guess what the center pairings were for the last Lions tour, and gues who had player of the tour.

Tuilagi is a basher correct. He is already a damned good one. But guess what he is more than that. Already. He can take intercepts e.g the one vs the Abs, he can pick lines e.g the try vs Wales where he did just that off a wilko pass and went over almost untouched, he can go down the wing from long range without being caught e,g the try he scored vs France in last years 6N.

So even now he is more than just a basher that you seem keen for reasons best known to yourself to want to categorise him as. WIth all of those raw materials at his disposal, the fact that he is so young and the good coaching that he will receive, he is much much more likely to evolve into a better player than he alreaddy undoubtedly is than he is to "disappear of the radar"
I can understand why you would want him to though! (which makes you very myopic) p.s this discussion is very little to do with Jamie ROberts who is an excellent player at 12.

So lets get this straight Tuillagi is great because

A. He can take intercepts e.g the one vs the Abs
Translation - He can catch a ball when thrown to him

B. He can pick lines e.g the try vs Wales where he did just that off a wilko pass and went over almost untouched.
Translation - See he can run without bashing into someone

C. he can go down the wing from long range without being caught e,g the try he scored vs France in last years 6N.
Translation - He can run quite fast

I am sorry, I can now see clearly all the stuff I was missing The man is Mike Gibson on steriods and I just couldn't see it. I just feel so foolish

No. You haven't got anything straight there at all. And your tone is churlish. No one is claiming him as "great" not yet at any rate. No one is claiming that he is mike gibson on steorids. This is your first mistake.

Even on your own reductionist "translations" you have to concede that he is not merely a basher but one who can run "quite fast". So you have moved. I'm not sure that i have the patience to contiune to argue with you. Suffice it to say that interceptions involve more than catching a ball thrown "at you", running down the wing from long range at test level against a team like France involves more than just being a quite fast and picking lines that evade tacklers is a hell of a lot more skillful than you have tried to make it out to be.

For goodness sakes man if it were all as easy as you make it out to be we'd all be international test centres!

Dragon is already a world class self abuser...

Triangulation wrote:p.s Risky i would like to clarify something - i'm staying strictly on topic here and ive backed up what ive said with examples.

Nobody has said Tuilagi is the panacea at centre for England or the B&I Lions. He is demonstrably a very good player and will deservedly tour. However, there are areas of his game that need tuning up - i'm a Tigers supporter and he frustrates and delights me in equal measure. I don't think anyone here has denied he isn't the real deal yet. There are certain individuals that have their own agenda though and will twist whatever you say to suit it.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Roberts, first centre on the team team. Oh boy i hope not.

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Roberts, first centre on the team team. Oh boy i hope not.

Which centre would beat him to it nathan? I'm not a particularly big Roberts fan, although I recognise what he brings to the party, but there isn't an abundance of quality 12's around right now, Tuilagi is a 13, BOD is 18 months too late, JD2 has been converted to 13, not sure he's attempted a 12 position at test level = risk... Twlevtrees, Madigan, Williams, Mcfadden, Scott... who else is there? Henson?

Roberts is starting centre by default right now, and I know his training capabilities are first class, he always impresses, leads and jee's others on, Gatland and Howley love him on the training pitch... lions captain bolter anyone?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Roberts, first centre on the team team. Oh boy i hope not.

Which centre would beat him to it nathan? I'm not a particularly big Roberts fan, although I recognise what he brings to the party, but there isn't an abundance of quality 12's around right now, Tuilagi is a 13, BOD is 18 months too late, JD2 has been converted to 13, not sure he's attempted a 12 position at test level = risk... Twlevtrees, Madigan, Williams, Mcfadden, Scott... who else is there? Henson?

Roberts is starting centre by default right now, and I know his training capabilities are first class, he always impresses, leads and jee's others on, Gatland and Howley love him on the training pitch... lions captain bolter anyone?

If we're playing players in the positions they hold for their countries you're probably correct. If Gatland wants to include a more attacking combo he may want to play BOD or Tuilagi inside. This is Gatland though so how about a Roberts Barritt combo?

He can be a dirt tracker and take the hits instead of the Test players on the Lions tour. If you aren't in form then you aren't a test player.

Roberts made him look completely anonymous when he played Wales, he went missing in the Italy game before that too.

100%beefy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

What makes him a better _____ than Roberts?

Manu Tuilagi scores a lot more tries. 10 tries in 19 caps is very impressive for a centre. Tuilagi is a real attacking threat.

Only 5 tries in 53 caps for Roberts.



I know Roberts is built up as a deity by the Welsh but what does he do?

munkian wrote:He can be a dirt tracker and take the hits instead of the Test players on the Lions tour. If you aren't in form then you aren't a test player.

Roberts made him look completely anonymous when he played Wales, he went missing in the Italy game before that too.

Another one has come out of the woodwork...

Knowing Gatland he'll make fools of us all and play both Roberts and Tuilagi together.

Would be a tough gig that for Sexton at 10, but you never know. Could be devastating.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Does the missus know about that 'part of you'?

Bathman_in_London wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Does the missus know about that 'part of you'?

I think its part of Roberts's doctorate.

Jimpy wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Does the missus know about that 'part of you'?

I think its part of Roberts's doctorate.

We have been here before - its his degree not his doctorate

lostinwales wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

I like Tuilagi but lets not get carried away, Roberts skillset is far better than Tuilagi, both are big strong boys but Tuilagi is still developing!!!

Roberts is guarentee'd to travel, and is first centre on the teamsheet for test 1, Tuilagi is iffy to travel at all.

Tuilagi has had a quiet season, but he is suffering from 2nd season syndrome IMHO, this was always going to be the test (ala Ashton on the Int stage) and we'll see if he can develop his game to cope with the pressures of international rugby.

Part of me would love to see Roberts inside Tuilagi for one of the warm up lions games though...

Does the missus know about that 'part of you'?

I think its part of Roberts's doctorate.

We have been here before - its his degree not his doctorate

Yes, but to what degree?

100%beefy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

What makes him a better _____ than Roberts?

What doesn't would be an easier question. The only attribute Roberts trumps Tuilagi on is defensive positioning, really struggling with everything else, Tuilagi is a better player.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

What makes him a better _____ than Roberts?

What doesn't would be an easier question. The only attribute Roberts trumps Tuilagi on is defensive positioning, really struggling with everything else, Tuilagi is a better player.

Look, its simple. Roberts is Welsh, therefore he must be the best centre on earth, nay, in the universe. This is despite the fact that the Welsh only rediscovered how to play rugby for 80 minutes in a year's worth of internationals, league and HC matches.

munkian wrote:He can be a dirt tracker and take the hits instead of the Test players on the Lions tour. If you aren't in form then you aren't a test player.

Roberts made him look completely anonymous when he played Wales, he went missing in the Italy game before that too.

If we're going down that route, where was roberts in Wales 8 defeats (was it 7 or 8). Some folk are planning the future on a single 80 minutes of rugby.

nathan wrote:

munkian wrote:He can be a dirt tracker and take the hits instead of the Test players on the Lions tour. If you aren't in form then you aren't a test player.

Roberts made him look completely anonymous when he played Wales, he went missing in the Italy game before that too.

If we're going down that route, where was roberts in Wales 8 defeats (was it 7 or 8). Some folk are planning the future on a single 80 minutes of rugby.

He was trying to fit his giant head through his front door. Couldn't do it.

We hopefully both will tour, and once they're in Lions jerseys, hopefully this juvenile Wales vs England nonsense will stop. Ever the optimist.

funnyExiledScot wrote:We hopefully both will tour, and once they're in Lions jerseys, hopefully this juvenile Wales vs England nonsense will stop. Ever the optimist.

+1

funnyExiledScot wrote:We hopefully both will tour, and once they're in Lions jerseys, hopefully this juvenile Wales vs England nonsense will stop. Ever the optimist.

Oh you dreamer...

It is pathetic how immature people become. What happened to being good sports, recognize that players in other countries can be good too

I would take Tuilagi for Scotland in a heart beat

Riskysports wrote:I would take Tuilagi for Scotland in a heart beat

Ahead of Nick De Luca?? Seriously??

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:I would take Tuilagi for Scotland in a heart beat

Ahead of Nick De Luca?? Seriously??

It would have to be a package deal

De Luca and Parks, or nothing

Parks,Morrison and De Luca.

The sort of backline London Cornish 3rd team might cobble together on a freezing december afternoon when the game clashes with the world cup...

Well it's only the usual suspects that are turning it into Wales England garbage, Pooly has a very valid opinion in my eyes, and is willing to discuss players on merit.

Therefore Pooly this is directed at you...

Roberts defencive positioning is actually easier IMHO than Tuilagi's at 13, Roberts has less decisions to make than a 13 would, but his defencive leadership and capabilities definately stand him out from Tuilagi IMHO.

Neither are particularly good distributors, but Tuilagi is probably a tad inferior there too, although he is quicker and a touch more agile.

IMHO I don't really see them as competition, Roberts hasn't the pace to play 13 any more, and Tuilagi doesn't have the nous to play 12, as I said though I would love to see them play together (please leave out the comments this time = suitably embarassed by the last time).

Not sure who mentioned Sexton having a nightmare, but imagine the running options of Cuthbert, Tuilagi, North, Roberts, he'd have to play a bit deeper at times being the only distributor, but the options melt in the mouth, and the likes of Robshaw, Tipuric, SOB and 1/2p are all very VERY good in the wider chanells... EXCITED!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well it's only the usual suspects that are turning it into Wales England garbage, Pooly has a very valid opinion in my eyes, and is willing to discuss players on merit.

Therefore Pooly this is directed at you...

Roberts defencive positioning is actually easier IMHO than Tuilagi's at 13, Roberts has less decisions to make than a 13 would, but his defencive leadership and capabilities definately stand him out from Tuilagi IMHO.

Neither are particularly good distributors, but Tuilagi is probably a tad inferior there too, although he is quicker and a touch more agile.

IMHO I don't really see them as competition, Roberts hasn't the pace to play 13 any more, and Tuilagi doesn't have the nous to play 12, as I said though I would love to see them play together (please leave out the comments this time = suitably embarassed by the last time).

Not sure who mentioned Sexton having a nightmare, but imagine the running options of Cuthbert, Tuilagi, North, Roberts, he'd have to play a bit deeper at times being the only distributor, but the options melt in the mouth, and the likes of Robshaw, Tipuric, SOB and 1/2p are all very VERY good in the wider chanells... EXCITED!!!

Exactly this!!

How many days left now anyone? I remember 2009, i had to replace the fence in the back garden and really wanted to watch the lions. So i moved the tv and sky box onto the windowsill looking out to the garden.

My work at putting the fench up didn't half slow! lol

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well it's only the usual suspects that are turning it into Wales England garbage, Pooly has a very valid opinion in my eyes, and is willing to discuss players on merit.

Therefore Pooly this is directed at you...

Roberts defencive positioning is actually easier IMHO than Tuilagi's at 13, Roberts has less decisions to make than a 13 would, but his defencive leadership and capabilities definately stand him out from Tuilagi IMHO.

Neither are particularly good distributors, but Tuilagi is probably a tad inferior there too, although he is quicker and a touch more agile.

IMHO I don't really see them as competition, Roberts hasn't the pace to play 13 any more, and Tuilagi doesn't have the nous to play 12, as I said though I would love to see them play together (please leave out the comments this time = suitably embarassed by the last time).

Not sure who mentioned Sexton having a nightmare, but imagine the running options of Cuthbert, Tuilagi, North, Roberts, he'd have to play a bit deeper at times being the only distributor, but the options melt in the mouth, and the likes of Robshaw, Tipuric, SOB and 1/2p are all very VERY good in the wider chanells... EXCITED!!!

Exactly this!!

How many days left now anyone? I remember 2009, i had to replace the fence in the back garden and really wanted to watch the lions. So i moved the tv and sky box onto the windowsill looking out to the garden.

My work at putting the fench up didn't half slow! lol

Shame on you, better to bring down walls, than build fences


I

Jimpy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why are people comparing Manu to Roberts??? Tuilagi is already a better than Roberts and he's 21. He will only get better.

What makes him a better _____ than Roberts?

What doesn't would be an easier question. The only attribute Roberts trumps Tuilagi on is defensive positioning, really struggling with everything else, Tuilagi is a better player.

Look, its simple. Roberts is Welsh, therefore he must be the best centre on earth, nay, in the universe. This is despite the fact that the Welsh only rediscovered how to play rugby for 80 minutes in a year's worth of internationals, league and HC matches.

and it was like taking candy (x30) from a big baby!

Is this some kind of new trait? Posting scorelines to get some kind of pathetic oneupsmanship... sake.

I forget, who was Lions player of the tournament 2009 ?

Well if he was good in 2009 he must be the best option now.

Simon Shaw in the engine room and Vickery at TH too eh

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well if he was good in 2009 he must be the best option now.

Simon Shaw in the engine room and Vickery at TH too eh

Hi Sir Clive!!

heh, beefy doesn't get sarcasm.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:heh, beefy doesn't get sarcasm.

d'ya think?

100%beefy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:heh, beefy doesn't get sarcasm.

d'ya think?

Jeebus. Get a sense of humour.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well if he was good in 2009 he must be the best option now.

Simon Shaw in the engine room and Vickery at TH too eh

Is Vickery still doing a bit? I haven't heard of him playing for a while, but no forum has picked up on whether he has retired or not?

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:heh, beefy doesn't get sarcasm.

d'ya think?

Jeebus. Get a sense of humour.

maybe i could borrow yours....oh i forgot.

100%beefy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:heh, beefy doesn't get sarcasm.

d'ya think?

Jeebus. Get a sense of humour.

maybe i could borrow yours....oh i forgot.

Another reason why this forum is going to the dogs. Welsh WUMs ruined 606 and are doing the same here,

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:heh, beefy doesn't get sarcasm.

d'ya think?

Jeebus. Get a sense of humour.

maybe i could borrow yours....oh i forgot.

Another reason why this forum is going to the dogs. Welsh WUMs ruined 606 and are doing the same here,

Didn't know you were Welsh too?

My main problem with Tuilagi isnt his hands, or the thought that he's just a basher......its the bloody commentators mispronouncing his name!

IT DOESNT HAVE A BLOODY N IN IT!! ITS NOT TUI - LANG - I!!!

Its Tuilagi! Simple! If they could sort that out Id have no problem with him being picked for the Lions....or any other team.

pharmachris wrote:My main problem with Tuilagi isnt his hands, or the thought that he's just a basher......its the bloody commentators mispronouncing his name!

IT DOESNT HAVE A BLOODY N IN IT!! ITS NOT TUI - LANG - I!!!

Its Tuilagi! Simple! If they could sort that out Id have no problem with him being picked for the Lions....or any other team.

Pretty sure in Samoan (which the name, at least, is) that 'g' is pronounced 'ng'? Or was this a joke that I missed?

It is pronounced Tuilangi :/

Similar to the way Fijians pronounce 'c' 'th' like Joe Rokothoko or Rupeni Thauthaunibutha.

Then I have one word to say.....

pharmachris wrote:Then I have one word to say.....

at least you have the cohonors to admit you were wrong!

Scarlets v Blues had centres passing AND kicking - whod've thought it !

Triangulation wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

beshocked wrote:dragonbreath bear in mind that Manu Tuilagi is only 21. He's still a very young man. Of course he can improve.

Manu looked like the complete package vs NZ. Good pace and power which we already know but good assists for Ashton and Barritt too showed his awareness.

Since then his form dropped for England but he's still a very good player. Not the finished article of course but he has the potential.

A lot of these young Samoan players fall into that mould too

+2

Spot on

While there are many areas in which I agree he could improve. I think what you see is what you get. He will be same type of player at 31 or 32 (there seems to be some confusion among posters about his current age) as he is today.The teams he plays in require no more from him, and with the media and fans telling him how great he is why would what is his motivation

How can you justifiably say this??! Players evolve all the time.

Or disappear off the radar, and there are many examples of just that. If a better more rounded option comes through then Tuillagi will be gone. This is in fact much more common than players evolving, whatever that means exactly. Tuillagi is a basher, it is just of course an opinion but that is all I think he will ever be

There is already a ready made, more experianced, better version of him in Jamie Roberts, guess what the center pairings were for the last Lions tour, and gues who had player of the tour.

Tuilagi is a basher correct. He is already a damned good one. But guess what he is more than that. Already. He can take intercepts e.g the one vs the Abs, he can pick lines e.g the try vs Wales where he did just that off a wilko pass and went over almost untouched, he can go down the wing from long range without being caught e,g the try he scored vs France in last years 6N.

So even now he is more than just a basher that you seem keen for reasons best known to yourself to want to categorise him as. WIth all of those raw materials at his disposal, the fact that he is so young and the good coaching that he will receive, he is much much more likely to evolve into a better player than he alreaddy undoubtedly is than he is to "disappear of the radar"
I can understand why you would want him to though! (which makes you very myopic) p.s this discussion is very little to do with Jamie ROberts who is an excellent player at 12.

So lets get this straight Tuillagi is great because

A. He can take intercepts e.g the one vs the Abs
Translation - He can catch a ball when thrown to him

B. He can pick lines e.g the try vs Wales where he did just that off a wilko pass and went over almost untouched.
Translation - See he can run without bashing into someone

C. he can go down the wing from long range without being caught e,g the try he scored vs France in last years 6N.
Translation - He can run quite fast

I am sorry, I can now see clearly all the stuff I was missing The man is Mike Gibson on steriods and I just couldn't see it. I just feel so foolish

No. You haven't got anything straight there at all. And your tone is churlish. No one is claiming him as "great" not yet at any rate. No one is claiming that he is mike gibson on steorids. This is your first mistake.

Even on your own reductionist "translations" you have to concede that he is not merely a basher but one who can run "quite fast". So you have moved. I'm not sure that i have the patience to contiune to argue with you. Suffice it to say that interceptions involve more than catching a ball thrown "at you", running down the wing from long range at test level against a team like France involves more than just being a quite fast and picking lines that evade tacklers is a hell of a lot more skillful than you have tried to make it out to be.

For goodness sakes man if it were all as easy as you make it out to be we'd all be international test centres!

Now I am in favour of an in-form Roberts and think he was magnificent in 2009 and less impotent against England this 6N has he has been for a while, making hard yards again. But Tuilagi is a different kind of player, he is a genuine threat ball in hand rather than just a battering ram and he can go outside as well as bosh through players. There is no reason both can't tour, though I wouldn't start them together, but I would rather start Tuilagi than Roberts, the difficulty is that there is more strength at 13 than at 12 which is pretty weak