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Saracens vs Toulon

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Post by beshocked Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Saracens vs Toulon


The English league leaders backed by South African and English financial muscle vs the French team 2nd in the Top 14 backed by comic book financial muscle (Mourad Boudjellal).

3 of the English backers of Saracens are on the times rich list - Nigel Wray (230m), Nick Leslau (200m) Dominic Silvester (150m)

Anyone know the wealth of Mourad?

Head to heads to look out for:

Farrell vs Wilkinson - the obvious one.

Borthwick vs Kennedy - the lineout battle.

Tomkins vs Bastearaud - the ex rugby league offloading machine vs the ultimate french battering ram

Vunipola vs Hayman - daunting challenge for the young Englishman vs the experience of one of the best tightheads in the world.

Brown vs Lobbe - two of the best backrowers in the world will duel.

Shame Fraser is likely to miss out because S.Armitage vs him would have been really interesting.

I could go on and on.



Alain Rolland has been picked as officiating the game. Rolling Eyes

After his last match my feelings are mixed. Should have red carded a racing metro player in the HC group match he officiated after just 4 minutes but he penalised Racing Metro a lot after that.


Both sides lost their recent matches on the weekend but neither will be too fussed. Obviously both have eyes on this match.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:26 am

I really dont get why people are so impressed with this Toulon team. They would be nothing without Johnny's kicking.

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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 am

Apart from the speed, the work at the breakdown, the well organised defense, they have made more yards and no obvious weaknesses?

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Post by Notch Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:29 am

I think that lineout was probably Sheridans fault. Looks like he got the call wrong!
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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:31 am

Sarries have kicked away far too much ball as well

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Post by glamorganalun Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:32 am

Zzzzzzzzz

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Post by Notch Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:33 am

Linebreaker wrote:So you think it would be a political appointment, Notch?

Nah, just Farrell is robotic and by the numbers. He has no flair or creativity. It's a Lions tour, we should represent the best rugby talent of Britain and Ireland- I just I just think with the talent we have we can set our sights on a more positive style of rugby. I hope so. A romantic view maybe, but if there's a place for rugby romance its on a Lions tour. Hopefully we can have a classic test series win or lose.

I think it's worth noting that Hodgson has been a big improvement on Farrell in terms of his all round play.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:35 am

TJ wrote:Apart from the speed, the work at the breakdown, the well organised defense, they have made more yards and no obvious weaknesses?
Their work at the breakdown looks good because Sarries offer nothing in attack

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Post by Biltong Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:35 am

Why did Farrell kick there?
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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:38 am

Notch wrote:
I think it's worth noting that Hodgson has been a big improvement on Farrell in terms of his all round play.

Really? - just keeps kicking the ball away as well

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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:41 am

Notch wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:So you think it would be a political appointment, Notch?

Nah, just Farrell is robotic and by the numbers. He has no flair or creativity. It's a Lions tour, we should represent the best rugby talent of Britain and Ireland- I just I just think with the talent we have we can set our sights on a more positive style of rugby. I hope so. A romantic view maybe, but if there's a place for rugby romance its on a Lions tour. Hopefully we can have a classic test series win or lose.


the trouble is we have no creative 10s around - unless you want flaky - you could have Rhubarb Jackson or Preistland I guess

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Post by Biltong Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:41 am

Beautiful touch by JW on Farrell there.
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Post by glamorganalun Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:41 am

Zzzzzzzzz end of snooze fest

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Post by Golden Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:42 am

Sexton isnt creative? Shocked

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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:43 am

Golden wrote:Sexton isnt creative? Shocked

Na he is fine - not the most exciting but the best we have - taken as read he is no 1

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:43 am

Toulon are muck I hope Clermont destroy them

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Post by glamorganalun Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:43 am

Gatland is off seen enough Farrell should stay at home

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Post by nathan Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:44 am

TJ wrote:
Notch wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:So you think it would be a political appointment, Notch?

Nah, just Farrell is robotic and by the numbers. He has no flair or creativity. It's a Lions tour, we should represent the best rugby talent of Britain and Ireland- I just I just think with the talent we have we can set our sights on a more positive style of rugby. I hope so. A romantic view maybe, but if there's a place for rugby romance its on a Lions tour. Hopefully we can have a classic test series win or lose.


the trouble is we have no creative 10s around - unless you want flaky - you could have Rhubarb Jackson or Preistland I guess

Flood is creative - trouble is he sometimes goes over the top.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:44 am

Gats is nodding. "Yeah... let's take Johnny."

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Post by Gibson Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:44 am

Jonny Wilkinson... What a player. He has kicked, defended and controlled his team to yet another Final.

He really is still so Special. As a player and a man.

Id take him for the Lions. Great experienced backup for Sexton.

Dream Team at 10.
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Post by Notch Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:45 am

TJ wrote:
Notch wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:So you think it would be a political appointment, Notch?

Nah, just Farrell is robotic and by the numbers. He has no flair or creativity. It's a Lions tour, we should represent the best rugby talent of Britain and Ireland- I just I just think with the talent we have we can set our sights on a more positive style of rugby. I hope so. A romantic view maybe, but if there's a place for rugby romance its on a Lions tour. Hopefully we can have a classic test series win or lose.


the trouble is we have no creative 10s around - unless you want flaky - you could have Rhubarb Jackson or Preistland I guess

Well Sexton will obviously shoulder the burden- there's also Madigan, Flood, Hook and even Hodgson (he's done well today) but I would have no problem with Wilkinson who can mix his game up and has massive experience and leadership qualities.

I think we desperately need Sexton to stay fit in all honesty.
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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:45 am

Notch - a panicky bit of rubbish from Farrell there tho - what was that chip?

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Post by Biltong Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:45 am

Linebreaker wrote:Gats is nodding. "Yeah... let's take Johnny."

Gatland "Does O'Connor have a UK grandmother?"
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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:46 am

Gibson wrote:Jonny Wilkinson... What a player. He has kicked, defended and controlled his team to yet another Final.

He really is still so Special. As a player and a man.

Id take him for the Lions. Great experienced backup for Sexton.

Dream Team at 10.

And killed all the backs on his side by sitting deep and being slow. He still hasn't changed. He can't get the backs going. He must not go - he is way way down the list

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:48 am

Biltong wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:Gats is nodding. "Yeah... let's take Johnny."

Gatland "Does O'Connor have a UK grandmother?"

Gatland: "OK, then, we'll take Owen as Sexton's food taster...."

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Post by Gibson Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:49 am

Sarries are so limited. Toulon are too, but they have Wilko. That's the main differ here.

Thank Christ ASM are in the Final.
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Post by Golden Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:49 am

The outhalves that have come out of this game better off are Biggar, Madigan and Laidlaw

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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:50 am

What a sure game.

Farrell has again been shown up. Has wilkinson done enough to make the squad. Sky sports think so but to be honest bit a chance. He has done nothing to get the Toulon backline moving.

Clermont Auvergne are going to be the winners easily.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:50 am

Get Wilko on that plane, he's scored every point for Toulon in their quarter-final and semi-final. Would be great back-up for Sexton to come off the bench for the last 20 minutes, or if Sexton got injured. Saracens have just one real chance to win this game, they didn't take it, Toulon too good in the end.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 am

Thanks again for that link you sent me ages ago, Gibbo. Smooth az. OK

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Post by SecretFly Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 am

British and Irish rugby taught a lesson?

Talk about being dragged down by association Laugh


Last edited by SecretFly on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by nathan Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 am

Golden wrote:The outhalves that have come out of this game better off are Biggar, Madigan and Laidlaw

were they playing then? Wink

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Post by Hound of Harrow Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 am

Sarries just didn't front up today. Good work by Toulon - the better team won.

Farrell was bad in that 2nd half.

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Post by nathan Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 am

maestegmafia wrote:What a sure game.

Farrell has again been shown up. Has wilkinson done enough to make the squad. Sky sports think so but to be honest bit a chance. He has done nothing to get the Toulon backline moving.

Clermont Auvergne are going to be the winners easily.

it depends on what your game plan is. If your going to play attacking rugby, Wilko isn't your man. Playing a more structured game then yeah he's up there.

For the lions we might need someone like Wilkenson to close games out.

Might be wrong - but didn't Clermont play Toulon recently and draw?


Last edited by nathan on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Aelandor Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 am

Well there was one decent OH in that game.............. Charlie Hodgson. If you swapped JW and OF into each others teams, there would be no difference. They're both place kicking machines and very little else.

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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 am

nathan wrote:
Golden wrote:The outhalves that have come out of this game better off are Biggar, Madigan and Laidlaw

were they playing then? Wink

No - but Farrell is playing his way out of the squad - looked poor this game so good for them

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Post by Gibson Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:56 am

Linebreaker wrote:Thanks again for that link you sent me ages ago, Gibbo. Smooth az. OK

NP buddy. Hope all is grand in Oz mate. My son is loving it, now he has found his niche. He is even playing soccerball for a local team now. Dutch Mastery Down Under. Cool

When JW speaks, I listen. Big Man-Love.
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Post by mikey_philVIII Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:58 am

Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:59 am

Wilkinson is a model pro and has been all his career - made the best of his talents and played the game in the right spirit. If only Cipriani behaved as Wilko dies!

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Post by SecretFly Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:59 am

mikey_philVIII wrote:Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

Don't think Wilkinson would say the first bit though, mikey?

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:00 am

Gibson wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:Thanks again for that link you sent me ages ago, Gibbo. Smooth az. OK

NP buddy. Hope all is grand in Oz mate. My son is loving it, now he has found his niche. He is even playing soccerball for a local team now. Dutch Mastery Down Under. Cool

When JW speaks, I listen. Big Man-Love.

Glad to hear he's part of the fabric. OK

Have you dusted off your snorkelling gear yet? You coming down to visit soon?

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Post by SecretFly Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:01 am

TJ wrote:Wilkinson is a model pro and has been all his career - made the best of his talents and played the game in the right spirit. If only Cipriani behaved as Wilko dies!

Steady! He's only getting on a bit. Still a young man. Wink

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Post by mikey_philVIII Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:02 am

SecretFly wrote:
mikey_philVIII wrote:Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

Don't think Wilkinson would say the first bit though, mikey?

The first part is the bit I'm saying.

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Post by nathan Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:02 am

mikey_philVIII wrote:Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

Going to guess there saying thank you to all there fans...


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Post by mikey_philVIII Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:04 am

nathan wrote:
mikey_philVIII wrote:Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

Going to guess there saying thank you to all there fans...


As in "thanks for the lack of atmosphere"?

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Post by SecretFly Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:05 am

mikey_philVIII wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
mikey_philVIII wrote:Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

Don't think Wilkinson would say the first bit though, mikey?

The first part is the bit I'm saying.

Oh I knew that. My point was a different one.

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Post by Gibson Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:06 am

Linebreaker wrote:
Gibson wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:Thanks again for that link you sent me ages ago, Gibbo. Smooth az. OK

NP buddy. Hope all is grand in Oz mate. My son is loving it, now he has found his niche. He is even playing soccerball for a local team now. Dutch Mastery Down Under. Cool

When JW speaks, I listen. Big Man-Love.

Glad to hear he's part of the fabric. OK

Have you dusted off your snorkelling gear yet? You coming down to visit soon?

I will dive off the Barrier Reef pal. Its been my dream since I was a kid watching Jacques Cousteau. Looks like it will be later in the year. Summer there is too hot for me. I take 2 weeks to get white, never minded tanned.

I will be sure to meet up for pints in Sydney, mo chara. OK

Then there were 2 in the HC. 3 French teams and 1 Irish team in the Finals. 1 is in the wrong Final. Ah well... next year.
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Post by nathan Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:08 am

mikey_philVIII wrote:
nathan wrote:
mikey_philVIII wrote:Why are Saracens doing a lap of honour? Such a loser mentality.

Wilkinson is a boss and a legend. Excellent character on display in the post match talk and throughout the game.

Going to guess there saying thank you to all there fans...


As in "thanks for the lack of atmosphere"?

as in thanks for coming to twicks and supporting us.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:18 am

Aelandor wrote:Well there was one decent OH in that game.............. Charlie Hodgson. If you swapped JW and OF into each others teams, there would be no difference. They're both place kicking machines and very little else.

I agree I thought Charlie Hodgson looked superb.

Wilkinson can't and doesn't attack. Fine to play for Toulon where he has Giteau to step up and do all he can't, but we don't have a lions contending centre to play that Giteaux roll.

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Post by Looseheaded Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:22 am

Duty281 wrote:Get Wilko on that plane, he's scored every point for Toulon in their quarter-final and semi-final. Would be great back-up for Sexton to come off the bench for the last 20 minutes, or if Sexton got injured. Saracens have just one real chance to win this game, they didn't take it, Toulon too good in the end.

that's just not a good thing though is it

You definitely don't want your 10 to be the only person to score a point in two huge games

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Post by Feckless Rogue Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:42 am

Sexton looked almost back to his best yesterday. Yes, he kicked 5 from 6, but his team also scored 5 tries, one scored by him most of the others involving him.

I feel depressed about the future of European rugby when I watch Toulon play.
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