Another 4 years and another disapointment.

I just want to get this off my chest now, if I do it now it means that come June I can back the Lions to the hilt as I always do.

It’s been nearly 20 years since we had more than a token 5 Lions Tourists. In fact the last time us Scots made up more than 20% of the touring party was coincidently the last time we won the series…. Just Sayin’

Last year plenty of Scots had been left behind, and rightly so in my opinion. We were pretty mince.

The next year though the first glimpses of what might have been began to emerge, Kelly Brown, Richie Gray, John Barclay, Jonnie Beattie, Ross Rennie and Dave Denton all gave hope that although we might be lacking in the backs we would be providing some very rare Scottish Beef for the Lions Pack. That belief didn’t really change when Gray, Brown, Beattie and Grant all had storming 6N and apart from Gray have all been performing well for Club and Country.

In the backs things looked rosy too. Hogg came out of nowhere last season and this season has been a potent attacking weapon for Glasgow and Scotland. In addition Maitland our next kilted Kiwi playing superbly for Scotland and Glasgow, his father will be very proud.

So it came to today, Lions selection. I had a hope, (at least a fool’s hope), that on merit we would have parity in terms of representation with Ireland, a country who really failed to impress in the 6N to such an extent that Kidney was shown the door. I personally would have been delighted if we had provided 6 guys my 6 : Beattie, Brown, Gray, Maitland, Hogg and Scott.

These 6 guys have all done more than enough for club and country to warrant selection for this tour but for reasons best known to Gatland, 3 of them have been overlooked. As for Gatland’s comment with regards to Hogg and the possibility of playing him at 10, I have never heard so much pish in my entire life. He is a full back and at a push a winger or an outside centre….

The guys unlucky to miss out :

Brown….. Poor old Kelly. Where do I even start? I’ll start by saying had Kelly Brown toured an no other Scott been picked, I would have been happier. Or had Brown been left out for Robshaw or Wood, I would have been desperately gutted but have fully understood. To be left out for a kid who has played a handful of games for a Pro12 side who have routinely been pumped this season was and is an absolute tragedy. Lydiate has done nothing this season to warrant inclusion above Brown, Robshaw or Wood. This is a titanic sized miscarriage of justice.

Beattie, is an easier omission to bear. Lets face facts Faleteu is the guy in possession of the test jersey for the no. 8 slot. However Heaslip had a terrible 6N and apparently scoring a brace of tries against Biaritz is enough to get picked for the Lions these days. Beattie has played consistently well for Montpellier and had an excellent 6N. I have no Idea why Heaslip has been selected, clearly his reputation preceeded him.

Ryan Grant can also be pretty miffed! The Toulon bench warmer of Gethin Jenkins gets to go whilst Grant doesn’t? Let’s just recap what happened a couple of weeks ago when Adam Jones came to Scotstoun… He had a really tough time from Grant who put in a tireless shift and scored a brace of tries and has been left out….

Finally the longest shot, Matt Scott. The 12 jersey wasn’t exactly exploding with Talent, and as a result his stock had risen. I can accept him being left behind.

Onto non Scottish related players…. Heartly in there instead of Best and Matt Stevens even being anywhere near the squad is an absolute joke.

RANT OVER!!!!!

Brown, Laidlaw, Murray and Grant are very unlucky.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, just trying to police the glut of threads saying the same thing.

gowershowerpower wrote:zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, just trying to police the glut of threads saying the same thing.

Is that all you have to contribute?

Hear hear

This is a week for depression and 2005 references

Come June we will all be on board drinking and singing and hugging

maestegmafia wrote:Brown, Laidlaw, Murray and Grant are very unlucky.

Murray should have gone instead of Stevens.
I thought Laidlaw might go as he can cover 10 as well. Danny Care may also feel he was good enough.
Grant should have gone, and should have been in contention for a starting spot. I understand why Jenkins and Vunipola were selected, but.....
Brown is very unlucky, so are Ryan Jones, Robshaw and Wood. (We could also throw in POM as well)

You are entitled to your rant RR.

'We were pretty mince'

aksh, i agree with the above.

regards.

Good post RuggerRadge - don't necessarily agree with all of it but at least you have given good arguments for your choices, not just gone into anti-Welsh/English/Irish mode. We all know that a number of players will be needed as replacements, possibly even before the tour sets off with a few big games still to play and hopefully a few of the players you mention will get their chance if required.

i agree ireland have 3 times more players than we do. not right.

and as for hartley, stevens and vunipola . what odds were available they were even up for consideration ? astonishing selection(s)

alive555 wrote:i agree ireland have 3 times more players than we do. not right.

and as for hartley, stevens and vunipola . what odds were available they were even up for consideration ? astonishing selection(s)

Matt Stevens got a few mentions across the Sunday papers. I just assumed the journos had been smoking something.

LondonTiger wrote:

alive555 wrote:i agree ireland have 3 times more players than we do. not right.

and as for hartley, stevens and vunipola . what odds were available they were even up for consideration ? astonishing selection(s)

Matt Stevens got a few mentions across the Sunday papers. I just assumed the journos had been smoking something.

Grant, Brown without doubt should have been selected. The Lions are going with only one fairly accurate kicker in 1/2p in all due respect to Farrell or Hogg amd the most dead ball merchant the in-form Laidlaw hasnt even picked. THREE 15s THREE 9s and only TWO 10s with not even one person in the party that can cover flyhalf ahem like Laidlaw. The most disappointing and disjointed Lions selected I have encountered. But then again with Gatland in charge its going to be a disaster waiting to happen.

ALL the mentions of Stevens came after the announcement.

I'm still trying to get over the Stevens selection.

Kelly brown will be a miss I thought he was more certain than SOB. I understand why your all miffed I know I would be but apart from Kelly brown ain't your best 3 players going well ones that would contest a starting test place. But lets not blame Gatland for there only being 3 players andy Irvine, roundtree, Farrell and howley would have had a big input into it

I can understand the frustration from a Scottish POV, I really can.

In my squad I had Ford, Grey, Brown, Laidlaw, Hogg and Visser with the likes of Grant, Hines, Rennie, Scott and Maitland as possibles.

So I was expecting a number between 5 and 10 Scottish tourists!!

Hartley AND Youngs is a joke, I thought maybe one would make the team out of some sort of English need for representation, but both ahead of Best Owens and Ford???

Vunipola I can understand, hard grounds, bench option etc, but Stevens...

I was also surprised to see Parling ahead of Hines and Launchbury!!

Lydiate is a travesty I agree, no right to be there ahead of Brown or Robshaw, but then I would say similar of Croft!!

I honestly thought Laidlaw was nailed on, with only 2 10's we need an option and I certainly wouldve put him ahead of Murray!!!

I also think Visser was extremely unlucky as Bowe did nothing in the 6N and has been injured for a while!!

Some of the players selected offer no competition to the test team at all, and sadly I can't see the missing Scot players making the back up list either

stevens is still trying to get over his own selection

Ye your right Blue, Bowe did nothing in the 6N. Although it is tough to make an impact when your injured for the whole thing!

I think out of the Scottish players mentioned above, who were not picked, only Brown can have a real grievance. I feel he warranted inclusion, and would have been a great midweek captain.

Grant must have been very close, but Vunipola is good and will be dangerous on the hard grounds of Oz.

My disappointments are:

A) The balance in terms of positions is all wrong. Three 15's, one of them is not going to get much game time; 2 tens, they are both going to have to play in every squad; only two specialist TH's - we should be targeting their scrum, Murray or Ross should be touring.

&

B) The two glaring selection blunders that are obvious to everybody but Gatland: Hartley over Best and Stevens over ANother TH. Pretty shocking really. I also feel that we don't have enough flexibility in the backs, I would have sacrificed a full back for an inside back who could cover 10, Hook or Twelvetrees.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Ye your right Blue, Bowe did nothing in the 6N. Although it is tough to make an impact when your injured for the whole thing!

So you don't mind Lydiate touring, I mean it wasn't his fault he was injured?!

I fell your pain radge – and you have put it a lot more eloquently than I would have!

Really disappointing day after such excitement this morning.

Thanks to all posters (other than the usual poo-flinging WUM monkey above) for being magnanimous.

It does suck when you think players aren't being given their due. Not pleasant to think that the likes of Brown and Grant - who share the common detriment of being low key, unfashionable and under the radar of the mainstream rugby press - may have been overlooked simply because nobody publicly fought for them. Not all there is to it, naturally, but you can't help but feel it's a factor.

For balance, I would suppose that if you're D. Ryan or J. Launchbury, you may well be wondering why a relatively off the boil Richie Gray was selected instead of you. I will also reiterate that I'd rather have R. Jones than AW Jones whom I believe offers less overall. Lots of lads will be drowning their sorrows tonight.

At least 5 players are usually crocked by the time of the first test so we'll see who needs to get on a plane in June. My solice as a Scotland fan comes from the fact that the three players we do have all have a good shout (subject to dirttracker form) in getting in the Test XXIII.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can understand the frustration from a Scottish POV, I really can.

In my squad I had Ford, Grey, Brown, Laidlaw, Hogg and Visser with the likes of Grant, Hines, Rennie, Scott and Maitland as possibles.

So I was expecting a number between 5 and 10 Scottish tourists!!

Hartley AND Youngs is a joke, I thought maybe one would make the team out of some sort of English need for representation, but both ahead of Best Owens and Ford???

Vunipola I can understand, hard grounds, bench option etc, but Stevens...

I was also surprised to see Parling ahead of Hines and Launchbury!!

Lydiate is a travesty I agree, no right to be there ahead of Brown or Robshaw, but then I would say similar of Croft!!

I honestly thought Laidlaw was nailed on, with only 2 10's we need an option and I certainly wouldve put him ahead of Murray!!!

I also think Visser was extremely unlucky as Bowe did nothing in the 6N and has been injured for a while!!

Some of the players selected offer no competition to the test team at all, and sadly I can't see the missing Scot players making the back up list either

For me, youngs is nearly a starter, not sure why your shocked.

Whos the 'usual poo-flinging WUM monkey'? Everyones pretty much agreeing with you!!

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can understand the frustration from a Scottish POV, I really can.

In my squad I had Ford, Grey, Brown, Laidlaw, Hogg and Visser with the likes of Grant, Hines, Rennie, Scott and Maitland as possibles.

So I was expecting a number between 5 and 10 Scottish tourists!!

Hartley AND Youngs is a joke, I thought maybe one would make the team out of some sort of English need for representation, but both ahead of Best Owens and Ford???

Vunipola I can understand, hard grounds, bench option etc, but Stevens...

I was also surprised to see Parling ahead of Hines and Launchbury!!

Lydiate is a travesty I agree, no right to be there ahead of Brown or Robshaw, but then I would say similar of Croft!!

I honestly thought Laidlaw was nailed on, with only 2 10's we need an option and I certainly wouldve put him ahead of Murray!!!

I also think Visser was extremely unlucky as Bowe did nothing in the 6N and has been injured for a while!!

Some of the players selected offer no competition to the test team at all, and sadly I can't see the missing Scot players making the back up list either

For me, youngs is nearly a starter, not sure why your shocked.

Ben yes, Tom no chance, he dynamic but too ineffective and gives his props a huge problem come scrum time, not to mention his poor lineout throwing.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whos the 'usual poo-flinging WUM monkey'? Everyones pretty much agreeing with you!!

Let's see if he's willing to identify himself, Bluesman...

Not really that difficult to work out.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Ye your right Blue, Bowe did nothing in the 6N. Although it is tough to make an impact when your injured for the whole thing!

So you don't mind Lydiate touring, I mean it wasn't his fault he was injured?!

I don't remember me saying I agreed with the Bowe selection? You said Bowe did nothing in the 6N

George Carlin wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whos the 'usual poo-flinging WUM monkey'? Everyones pretty much agreeing with you!!

Let's see if he's willing to identify himself, Bluesman...

Not really that difficult to work out.

I'm confused, noone has done anything except agree with you yet you clearly have a prob with someone, and if that means me you clearly havn't read a single thing Ive written, I say take a day, calm a bit and reread my posts, they are very pro Scotland!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Ye your right Blue, Bowe did nothing in the 6N. Although it is tough to make an impact when your injured for the whole thing!

So you don't mind Lydiate touring, I mean it wasn't his fault he was injured?!

I don't remember me saying I agreed with the Bowe selection? You said Bowe did nothing in the 6N

Which he didn't, and you justified his selection because he didn't get a chance to play through injury. I personally wouldn't have taken Bowe after Ashton rounded him to score in the HC, I wouldve prefered Visser, but I can see why Bowe has been given the benefit of the doubt.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can understand the frustration from a Scottish POV, I really can.

In my squad I had Ford, Grey, Brown, Laidlaw, Hogg and Visser with the likes of Grant, Hines, Rennie, Scott and Maitland as possibles.

So I was expecting a number between 5 and 10 Scottish tourists!!

Hartley AND Youngs is a joke, I thought maybe one would make the team out of some sort of English need for representation, but both ahead of Best Owens and Ford???

Vunipola I can understand, hard grounds, bench option etc, but Stevens...

I was also surprised to see Parling ahead of Hines and Launchbury!!

Lydiate is a travesty I agree, no right to be there ahead of Brown or Robshaw, but then I would say similar of Croft!!

I honestly thought Laidlaw was nailed on, with only 2 10's we need an option and I certainly wouldve put him ahead of Murray!!!

I also think Visser was extremely unlucky as Bowe did nothing in the 6N and has been injured for a while!!

Some of the players selected offer no competition to the test team at all, and sadly I can't see the missing Scot players making the back up list either

For me, youngs is nearly a starter, not sure why your shocked.

Ben yes, Tom no chance, he dynamic but too ineffective and gives his props a huge problem come scrum time, not to mention his poor lineout throwing.

Not sure who you've been watching but it certainly isn't Tom youngs! Tigers scrum doesn't seem to have these huge problems... yeah his line throwing can be dodgy, but then again who's isn't from time to time.

When did I justify his selection?

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can understand the frustration from a Scottish POV, I really can.

In my squad I had Ford, Grey, Brown, Laidlaw, Hogg and Visser with the likes of Grant, Hines, Rennie, Scott and Maitland as possibles.

So I was expecting a number between 5 and 10 Scottish tourists!!

Hartley AND Youngs is a joke, I thought maybe one would make the team out of some sort of English need for representation, but both ahead of Best Owens and Ford???

Vunipola I can understand, hard grounds, bench option etc, but Stevens...

I was also surprised to see Parling ahead of Hines and Launchbury!!

Lydiate is a travesty I agree, no right to be there ahead of Brown or Robshaw, but then I would say similar of Croft!!

I honestly thought Laidlaw was nailed on, with only 2 10's we need an option and I certainly wouldve put him ahead of Murray!!!

I also think Visser was extremely unlucky as Bowe did nothing in the 6N and has been injured for a while!!

Some of the players selected offer no competition to the test team at all, and sadly I can't see the missing Scot players making the back up list either

For me, youngs is nearly a starter, not sure why your shocked.

Ben yes, Tom no chance, he dynamic but too ineffective and gives his props a huge problem come scrum time, not to mention his poor lineout throwing.

Not sure who you've been watching but it certainly isn't Tom youngs! Tigers scrum doesn't seem to have these huge problems... yeah his line throwing can be dodgy, but then again who's isn't from time to time.

Tigers scrum isn't international standard though is it, and it certainly did have a problem against the Ospreys! He is a decent little player, and in a few years will be very good for England I'd bet, but right now he is too small, too inexperienced and just doesn't compare to someone like Hibbard, meaning sadly there is no competition for Hibbard and he'll be test starter, I'd prefer to see Best or Owens start ahead of him personally

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Ye your right Blue, Bowe did nothing in the 6N. Although it is tough to make an impact when your injured for the whole thing!

So you don't mind Lydiate touring, I mean it wasn't his fault he was injured?!

I don't remember me saying I agreed with the Bowe selection? You said Bowe did nothing in the 6N

Which he didn't, and you justified his selection because he didn't get a chance to play through injury. I personally wouldn't have taken Bowe after Ashton rounded him to score in the HC, I wouldve prefered Visser, but I can see why Bowe has been given the benefit of the doubt.

Really does shock me that people make there minds up on a player based on one incident. There is not a single player past or present that has never made a mistake in their rugby career. To say you wouldn't take bows because Ashton got past him is just silly.

The omission of Brown is shocking, on a par with Best. Has been brilliant for club and country. I am a big fan of Sean O'Brien but even I thought SOB had serious competition at 6 in Brown.

Tbh I am not that much of a fan of Laidlaw, but considering there are just two 10s his selection might have made sense.

I would have picked Grant and Murray but I don't think they are scandalous decision to leave them out.

Heaslip-Beattie was a tight call, Heaslip's supposed character and being a successful tourist last time out may have been the only differences.

In fairness I am slightly surprised Richie Gray made the cut, albeit a quality player.

theslosty's luck value for Scotland, -4.

Personally I think the most fortunate nation was England, with Vunipola, Stevens, Youngs, Hartley, Croft, Farrell all being contentious decisions. Robshaw is the only unlucky English candidate really, perhaps Joe Launchbury getting edged out by Gray as well.
theslosty's luck value: +6

Murray, Heaslip and Kearney were all on the right end of some close calls, but Best, Ryan, POM, Madigan and Zebo were all left out.
theslosty's luck value: -2

Wales have Lydiate and Warburton's captaincy, but Biggar misses out.
thslosty's luck value: +1

thebluesmancometh wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whos the 'usual poo-flinging WUM monkey'? Everyones pretty much agreeing with you!!

Let's see if he's willing to identify himself, Bluesman...

Not really that difficult to work out.

I'm confused, noone has done anything except agree with you yet you clearly have a prob with someone, and if that means me you clearly havn't read a single thing Ive written, I say take a day, calm a bit and reread my posts, they are very pro Scotland!

I dont think hes referring to you blues, youre one of the good lads.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whos the 'usual poo-flinging WUM monkey'? Everyones pretty much agreeing with you!!

Let's see if he's willing to identify himself, Bluesman...

Not really that difficult to work out.

I'm confused, noone has done anything except agree with you yet you clearly have a prob with someone, and if that means me you clearly havn't read a single thing Ive written, I say take a day, calm a bit and reread my posts, they are very pro Scotland!

It's obviously not you, feller. Happy to make that clear.

George Carlin wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whos the 'usual poo-flinging WUM monkey'? Everyones pretty much agreeing with you!!

Let's see if he's willing to identify himself, Bluesman...

Not really that difficult to work out.

I'm confused, noone has done anything except agree with you yet you clearly have a prob with someone, and if that means me you clearly havn't read a single thing Ive written, I say take a day, calm a bit and reread my posts, they are very pro Scotland!

It's obviously not you, feller. Happy to make that clear.

I am Spartacus...

oh sorry wrong thread

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Ye your right Blue, Bowe did nothing in the 6N. Although it is tough to make an impact when your injured for the whole thing!

So you don't mind Lydiate touring, I mean it wasn't his fault he was injured?!

I don't remember me saying I agreed with the Bowe selection? You said Bowe did nothing in the 6N

Which he didn't, and you justified his selection because he didn't get a chance to play through injury. I personally wouldn't have taken Bowe after Ashton rounded him to score in the HC, I wouldve prefered Visser, but I can see why Bowe has been given the benefit of the doubt.

Really does shock me that people make there minds up on a player based on one incident. There is not a single player past or present that has never made a mistake in their rugby career. To say you wouldn't take bows because Ashton got past him is just silly.

I didn't say I wouldn't take him because of that incident at all, I wouldn't take him since that, he was coming back from injury, hadn't played any 6N rugby and wasn't exactly setting the world alight at Ulster despite them having the best start to a season Ive seen anyone have!! Coming into that game and being beaten so easily highlights he was being rushed back from injury, but wasn't ready, so I wouldve favoured Visser.

Aye Radge - desperate cronyism and nepotism strikes. Apart from Kelly Brown and Ryan Grant feel sorry for Robshaw, Rory Best and Dan Biggar.

Take it Stevens goes for what he brings to the party ! Hartley - grade A fud and cheap shot merchant.

Now hope they get pumped in all games. C'mon Oz

Look, I can understand the disappointment of our Scottish brethren on here, but in all honesty, what did you expect ? Scotland and the Scottish players need to do more than just finish higher than third in the six nations, all these players being trundled out on here needed to show more, Kelly Brown and perhaps Ryan Grant aside any others are not reaching the levels they should be, and close as Kelly Brown can probably get, there are better options unfortunately, Lydiate should not be going, although when fully fit is good enough, but he has been injured for too long, but who would you put in his place, because if Lydiate was not to go I would have said Robshaw instead not any of the Scottish equivalents, when Scotland can do more than win the odd one off game then more of their players can throw their hats into the ring, but finishing third in the six nations should not be what we are setting the yard stick to. I am now going to batten down the hatches and take cover from all the abuse I am now going to have from the Scottish after saying this.

I'd be surprised if you got any abuse, but you're going to get people arguing your points!

Yes it is fair to say Scotland will be better represented when they do better in the 6N, but the whole point of the lions is to turn strong individuals into a team. Brown had a very good 6N individually. He is also one of the first names on the sarries team sheet, a club competing at the highest level. Yes the same can be said about robshaw, but I think it's fair to say Lydiate this season has been the polar opposite.

Similarly the likes of Grant, Matt Scott and to an extent visser have had strong individual performances, and would thrive in the lions environment

Total rubbish... we are not talking winning a Feb wintry NH tournament we are talking about going to a SH country on hard pitches and beating them in their own back yard. The bulk of the 15 welshmen attempted to do that last year against an Aussie that was decimated by injury and ahem LOST 3-0. Smell the coffee Lord D!!

I may have spoken too soon about the abuse....!

Abuse!!.....Thats not abuse, Lord D needs to explain his reasoning next Saturday night in Edinburgh.... yep and well deserved

when was the last time scotland beat australia in the boiling hot on hard ground please correct me but didnt scotland beat them in the Wee weeing down rain where you could hardly walk never mind run but i will say atleast you have beat them

Lord d

Absolute tosh

Ireland came lower down the 6 n than we did and they have 3 times, yes 3 times the number of players.

So either they just happen to have the right players competing for the less competitive positions or they are a team of a few exceptional individuals and the rest duds. Can't have it both ways

Also tell me which Irish players shone ? I can think of none actually.

And while we are on the subjet nr for that matter did Stevens Hartley or vunipola. Eh .??

Abuse well deserved !

welshboii15 wrote:when was the last time scotland beat australia in the boiling hot on hard ground please correct me but didnt scotland beat them in the Wee weeing down rain where you could hardly walk never mind run but i will say atleast you have beat them

We managed to beat Samoa on the boiling hot hard ground. Wales couldnt even beat them in a freezing cold November.

flyhalffactory wrote:Total rubbish... we are not talking winning a Feb wintry NH tournament we are talking about going to a SH country on hard pitches and beating them in their own back yard. The bulk of the 15 welshmen attempted to do that last year against an Aussie that was decimated by injury and ahem LOST 3-0. Smell the coffee Lord D!!

If Australia had all these injuries then who in the hell did they have playing for them ? To say they had all these injuries is total bullox, they might have had a few injuries but not all of them were from their first fifteen, Scotland beat an Australian side in monsoon weather with not one recognisable player in their team, it is all about international rugby and when Scotland stop battling it out with Italy for the wooden spoon on more than the one occasion this year then I will concede that you have a point.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:when was the last time scotland beat australia in the boiling hot on hard ground please correct me but didnt scotland beat them in the Wee weeing down rain where you could hardly walk never mind run but i will say atleast you have beat them

We managed to beat Samoa on the boiling hot hard ground. Wales couldnt even beat them in a freezing cold November.

Maybe the Tonga game did for some of the Scottish boys.

thats also a true fact, but beating Samoa in the hot is alot different to beating Australia