Another 4 years and another disapointment.

First topic message reminder :

I just want to get this off my chest now, if I do it now it means that come June I can back the Lions to the hilt as I always do.

It’s been nearly 20 years since we had more than a token 5 Lions Tourists. In fact the last time us Scots made up more than 20% of the touring party was coincidently the last time we won the series…. Just Sayin’

Last year plenty of Scots had been left behind, and rightly so in my opinion. We were pretty mince.

The next year though the first glimpses of what might have been began to emerge, Kelly Brown, Richie Gray, John Barclay, Jonnie Beattie, Ross Rennie and Dave Denton all gave hope that although we might be lacking in the backs we would be providing some very rare Scottish Beef for the Lions Pack. That belief didn’t really change when Gray, Brown, Beattie and Grant all had storming 6N and apart from Gray have all been performing well for Club and Country.

In the backs things looked rosy too. Hogg came out of nowhere last season and this season has been a potent attacking weapon for Glasgow and Scotland. In addition Maitland our next kilted Kiwi playing superbly for Scotland and Glasgow, his father will be very proud.

So it came to today, Lions selection. I had a hope, (at least a fool’s hope), that on merit we would have parity in terms of representation with Ireland, a country who really failed to impress in the 6N to such an extent that Kidney was shown the door. I personally would have been delighted if we had provided 6 guys my 6 : Beattie, Brown, Gray, Maitland, Hogg and Scott.

These 6 guys have all done more than enough for club and country to warrant selection for this tour but for reasons best known to Gatland, 3 of them have been overlooked. As for Gatland’s comment with regards to Hogg and the possibility of playing him at 10, I have never heard so much pish in my entire life. He is a full back and at a push a winger or an outside centre….

The guys unlucky to miss out :

Brown….. Poor old Kelly. Where do I even start? I’ll start by saying had Kelly Brown toured an no other Scott been picked, I would have been happier. Or had Brown been left out for Robshaw or Wood, I would have been desperately gutted but have fully understood. To be left out for a kid who has played a handful of games for a Pro12 side who have routinely been pumped this season was and is an absolute tragedy. Lydiate has done nothing this season to warrant inclusion above Brown, Robshaw or Wood. This is a titanic sized miscarriage of justice.

Beattie, is an easier omission to bear. Lets face facts Faleteu is the guy in possession of the test jersey for the no. 8 slot. However Heaslip had a terrible 6N and apparently scoring a brace of tries against Biaritz is enough to get picked for the Lions these days. Beattie has played consistently well for Montpellier and had an excellent 6N. I have no Idea why Heaslip has been selected, clearly his reputation preceeded him.

Ryan Grant can also be pretty miffed! The Toulon bench warmer of Gethin Jenkins gets to go whilst Grant doesn’t? Let’s just recap what happened a couple of weeks ago when Adam Jones came to Scotstoun… He had a really tough time from Grant who put in a tireless shift and scored a brace of tries and has been left out….

Finally the longest shot, Matt Scott. The 12 jersey wasn’t exactly exploding with Talent, and as a result his stock had risen. I can accept him being left behind.

Onto non Scottish related players…. Heartly in there instead of Best and Matt Stevens even being anywhere near the squad is an absolute joke.

RANT OVER!!!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

nathan wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can understand the frustration from a Scottish POV, I really can.

In my squad I had Ford, Grey, Brown, Laidlaw, Hogg and Visser with the likes of Grant, Hines, Rennie, Scott and Maitland as possibles.

So I was expecting a number between 5 and 10 Scottish tourists!!

Hartley AND Youngs is a joke, I thought maybe one would make the team out of some sort of English need for representation, but both ahead of Best Owens and Ford???

Vunipola I can understand, hard grounds, bench option etc, but Stevens...

I was also surprised to see Parling ahead of Hines and Launchbury!!

Lydiate is a travesty I agree, no right to be there ahead of Brown or Robshaw, but then I would say similar of Croft!!

I honestly thought Laidlaw was nailed on, with only 2 10's we need an option and I certainly wouldve put him ahead of Murray!!!

I also think Visser was extremely unlucky as Bowe did nothing in the 6N and has been injured for a while!!

Some of the players selected offer no competition to the test team at all, and sadly I can't see the missing Scot players making the back up list either

For me, youngs is nearly a starter, not sure why your shocked.

Ben yes, Tom no chance, he dynamic but too ineffective and gives his props a huge problem come scrum time, not to mention his poor lineout throwing.

Not sure who you've been watching but it certainly isn't Tom youngs! Tigers scrum doesn't seem to have these huge problems... yeah his line throwing can be dodgy, but then again who's isn't from time to time.

Tigers scrum isn't international standard though is it, and it certainly did have a problem against the Ospreys! He is a decent little player, and in a few years will be very good for England I'd bet, but right now he is too small, too inexperienced and just doesn't compare to someone like Hibbard, meaning sadly there is no competition for Hibbard and he'll be test starter, I'd prefer to see Best or Owens start ahead of him personally

It coped pretty well against Toulon.

welshboii15 wrote:thats also a true fact, but beating Samoa in the hot is alot different to beating Australia

Also beating a second string Samoan side is different to playing a full strength Samoan side.

As a Scottish fan I am of course the same as you all, very upset at a mere 3 players being selected. Regardless of what anyone says, to me that is spitting in the face of Scottish rugby.

My biggest grievance..

Lydiate over Brown

Lydiate - Club is Dragons who are 11th in the Pro12. Not in the Heineken cup. Did not feature in the 6N. Only just back from injury. Selected on previous form/reputation only.

Brown - Club is Saracens who are currently 1st in the Aviva Premiership. Made it to the semi finals in the Heineken Cup. Featured as Captain of Scotland in every 6N game and was a standout performer for Scotland, even in the unnatural position of openside flanker.

In short, a f***ing travesty!

It is also disappointing to see Murray and Youngs get the nod over Laidlaw, who can play 10 and adds something different. Gatland should have been brave and dropped either Murray or Youngs in my opinion.

Visser excluded, despite being top try scorer for a 4th year running in the Rabbo. I would have added Visser and dropped Kearney if I were Gatland. Kearney is most likely just going to be on the bench or playing midweek anyway. Hogg and 1/2p will be the Lions test fullbacks, why take 3?

Grant - As Radge says, 2 tries against Ospreys recently, gave Jones a hard time in the scrum. Played in every 6N game. Left out in preference of Vunipola and Stevens.

However!

As a Wallabies fan, I am actually very excited. Gatland has gone down the same road as the last few Lions tours, picking a beefy selection of players and one or two quick ones. In other words, conservative as hell!

I am relishing the contest and fully expect the Wallabies to win 3-0. I am worried about the first test however. I think the Lions will be better prepared for that one.

Bring it on P***y Cats!!!

Lord d

U mean the Australia with these players in it ?

Ioane, Barnes, Genia, Moore, Sharpe, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham, Alexander

Look, I am not having a go at Scottish rugby, the whole of Britain and Ireland need a good Scotland, I am sure that Scottish rugby is on the mend as well, at the moment this is not the best of times for Scottish rugby but I am sure by the time the next Lions tour comes around there will be a lot more Scottish representatives in the Lions and stronger performances in the six nations, but now at the moment Scottish rugby is at best on an upward curve. For the record being Welsh, I know what it is like hitting rock bottom in rugby and Wales are by no means where they ought to be, but I do live in hope that we see a strong Scotland again.

As alive555 said..... we beat a fairly full strength side. You lost 3-0 against what has been recognised as the weakest oz squad in living memory. I as usual will be giving the Lions my 100% support but this smacks of Gatland Law "tight knit and unquestiongly loyal players" and has left a not unsuprisingly bitter taste in the mouth of many

LordDowlais wrote:Look, I am not having a go at Scottish rugby, the whole of Britain and Ireland need a good Scotland, I am sure that Scottish rugby is on the mend as well, at the moment this is not the best of times for Scottish rugby but I am sure by the time the next Lions tour comes around there will be a lot more Scottish representatives in the Lions and stronger performances in the six nations, but now at the moment Scottish rugby is at best on an upward curve. For the record being Welsh, I know what it is like hitting rock bottom in rugby and Wales are by no means where they ought to be, but I do live in hope that we see a strong Scotland again.

We aren't rock bottom though. That was 4 seasons ago. We were third in the 6N, Glagow are in hot pursuit of the PR0 12 trophy this year.

Had Kelly Brown and Ryan Grant been chosen I would have been singing a totally different tune. I'm not wanting tokenism. I wanted fair representation. Grant and Brown wold have provided that.

Still, every cloud and all that. Hogg, Maitland and Gray could all be likely test starters, such is their quality.

Sorry but why do Scots feel let down by only three players? Scotland have made little to no impact in international rugby in the last ten years. They beat Australia in a swamp, eh fair enough. Honestly come on, you got hammered by England, played Ireland when they forgot how to pass, tried to bore Wales out of playing rugby but failed, but you hammered Italy at home, ok brilliant. Still as woeful a rugby team as four years ago lets face it.

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:Sorry but why do Scots feel let down by only three players? Scotland have made little to no impact in international rugby in the last ten years. They beat Australia in a swamp, eh fair enough. Honestly come on, you got hammered by England, played Ireland when they forgot how to pass, tried to bore Wales out of playing rugby but failed, but you hammered Italy at home, ok brilliant. Still as woeful a rugby team as four years ago lets face it.

Kicking people while they are down...

LordDowlais wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Total rubbish... we are not talking winning a Feb wintry NH tournament we are talking about going to a SH country on hard pitches and beating them in their own back yard. The bulk of the 15 welshmen attempted to do that last year against an Aussie that was decimated by injury and ahem LOST 3-0. Smell the coffee Lord D!!

If Australia had all these injuries then who in the hell did they have playing for them ? To say they had all these injuries is total bullox, they might have had a few injuries but not all of them were from their first fifteen, Scotland beat an Australian side in monsoon weather with not one recognisable player in their team, it is all about international rugby and when Scotland stop battling it out with Italy for the wooden spoon on more than the one occasion this year then I will concede that you have a point.

LD, from memory, the overlap between the XXIII that Scotland played and the one that Wales played was something like +70%

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:Sorry but why do Scots feel let down by only three players? Scotland have made little to no impact in international rugby in the last ten years. They beat Australia in a swamp, eh fair enough. Honestly come on, you got hammered by England, played Ireland when they forgot how to pass, tried to bore Wales out of playing rugby but failed, but you hammered Italy at home, ok brilliant. Still as woeful a rugby team as four years ago lets face it.

Ah right, because I forgot, results and performances from 10 years ago should have a bearing on todays selection. Silly me.

LordDowlais wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:thats also a true fact, but beating Samoa in the hot is alot different to beating Australia

Also beating a second string Samoan side is different to playing a full strength Samoan side.

LD, perhaps negated by the difference in playing them at their home with the SH-based players available versus playing them in your own back yard with their NH-based players available?

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:Sorry but why do Scots feel let down by only three players? Scotland have made little to no impact in international rugby in the last ten years. They beat Australia in a swamp, eh fair enough. Honestly come on, you got hammered by England, played Ireland when they forgot how to pass, tried to bore Wales out of playing rugby but failed, but you hammered Italy at home, ok brilliant. Still as woeful a rugby team as four years ago lets face it.

Ah right, because I forgot, results and performances from 10 years ago should have a bearing on todays selection. Silly me.

As in Scotland haven't done anything in ten years while the other nations have, therefore you can't really justify Scotland having obvious lions choices.

So individual players don't get recognition? You really think Stevens and Lydiate/Croft deserve to be there instead of Grant or Brown/Robshaw/Ryan Jones?

The title looked like a NZ World Cup thread. Sorry-I'll get my coat again.

Disney, are you going to be around for the Heino & Amlin finals weekend?

LondonTiger wrote:

alive555 wrote:i agree ireland have 3 times more players than we do. not right.

and as for hartley, stevens and vunipola . what odds were available they were even up for consideration ? astonishing selection(s)

Matt Stevens got a few mentions across the Sunday papers. I just assumed the journos had been smoking something.

He has played well for Saracens in fairness and can cover both spots which is an attractive talent when squad numbers are limited... I think Vunipola is more fortunate. Not even a test class scrummager so he is very fortunate to be in there too.

but thats my point Lydiate was a major component of a grand slam winning squad, a year ago, at least he has been involved and contributed significantly in a winning team, Croft won a six nations championship with England- I still don't really agree with his pick anyway, even the odd-choice of Matt Stevens has played in a world cup final and as for Robshaw, he built his reputation on being an average player and nice guy, not annoyingly smugg like some english players, but not really a lion is he?

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:but thats my point Lydiate was a major component of a grand slam winning squad, a year ago, at least he has been involved and contributed significantly in a winning team, Croft won a six nations championship with England- I still don't really agree with his pick anyway, even the odd-choice of Matt Stevens has played in a world cup final and as for Robshaw, he built his reputation on being an average player and nice guy, not annoyingly smugg like some english players, but not really a lion is he?

Martin Johnson won a wrold cup ten years ago, that doesnt mean we should pull him out of retirement. The only thing that should matter is form in the 6-12 months prior to a tour. Anything beyond that is irrelevent. Ryan Grant has been in great form the past year. Kelly Brown has been in great form the past year. Lydiate has hardly played the past year, and what he has has been in defeats to Australia and for the dragons. Stevens has been part of a decent side, but taking pastings in the scrum for saracens and is a penalty machine in the loose. But because he was in a world cup final 5 years ago, he should tour? WHy dont we just play the entire england team from that final?

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:but thats my point Lydiate was a major component of a grand slam winning squad, a year ago, at least he has been involved and contributed significantly in a winning team, Croft won a six nations championship with England- I still don't really agree with his pick anyway, even the odd-choice of Matt Stevens has played in a world cup final and as for Robshaw, he built his reputation on being an average player and nice guy, not annoyingly smugg like some english players, but not really a lion is he?

Tell me what Lydiate does better than Ryan Jones, Kelly Brown or Chris Robshaw and I'll consider you to be something more than a WUM spitting in the Face of Scottish Rugby fans...

especially since he has player what 3 pro12 games since his ling injury layoff. He is clearly Gatlands pet along with Warburton hence their inclusion.

A fully fit and firing Welsh backrow would consist of Jones, Tipuric and Faleteau... So how can they really be considered Lions or worse a Lions Captain. Warbs has shown none of his RWC2011 form.

Until the last RWc I knew all about 4 more years and another disappointment.

Listen I'm not a massive fan of lydiate by any means or wales for that matter but at least he had one season of great form in a winning team. My point is last season when Lydiate was actually playing, nobody would dare suggest Kelly Brown should be an option for the lions. Ryan Jones? Wouldn't be in the team if Lydiate was injured anyway, so I'm not sure why u bothered with that one, Robshaw is just an adequate player, as is Brown

How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:Listen I'm not a massive fan of lydiate by any means or wales for that matter but at least he had one season of great form in a winning team. My point is last season when Lydiate was actually playing, nobody would dare suggest Kelly Brown should be an option for the lions. Ryan Jones? Wouldn't be in the team if Lydiate was injured anyway, so I'm not sure why u bothered with that one, Robshaw is just an adequate player, as is Brown

Brown... Adequate?

2nd top tackler in the 6N, to Tom Wood another farcical omission and the highest turnover rate in the 6N. What else can a Flanker do to merit inclusion?

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:but thats my point Lydiate was a major component of a grand slam winning squad, a year ago, at least he has been involved and contributed significantly in a winning team, Croft won a six nations championship with England

Lydiate has been extended a courtesy that was also extended to Gray and Bowe... out of the three only Bowe is that good that he can't be replaced with an equally good player. I would have taken Bowe he is worth the risk and a properly world class rugby player. I am a Scot and I might not have taken Gray as there was terrific competition at 2nd row. Lydiate would not have gone - he has barely played a run of games since the 2012 6N. Nobody is talking about Stephen Ferris missing out - what a fantastic player he is at 6 when fit. Far better than Croft! Robshaw and Brown should have toured before Croft and Lydiate as far as I am concerned.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Ledge the ledgebag wrote:Listen I'm not a massive fan of lydiate by any means or wales for that matter but at least he had one season of great form in a winning team. My point is last season when Lydiate was actually playing, nobody would dare suggest Kelly Brown should be an option for the lions. Ryan Jones? Wouldn't be in the team if Lydiate was injured anyway, so I'm not sure why u bothered with that one, Robshaw is just an adequate player, as is Brown

Brown... Adequate?

2nd top tackler in the 6N, to Tom Wood another farcical omission and the highest turnover rate in the 6N. What else can a Flanker do to merit inclusion?

Ironically tackling is the thing that gets brought up if anyone dares to question what Dan Lydiate actually brings...

Lots of Scottish posters keep beating Wales with the 'lost to Australia' and 'lost to Samoa' stick. That's fine, and it did happen. But we've ALL lost to either top 3 teams or teams ranked below us, including Scotland. However, you seem fail to acknowledge your loss to Tonga at home with the likes of Kelly Brown playing. That's not to rub your noses in it, but you have to admit that your players have had their low points too.

RDW_Scotland wrote:How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

RDW, my day has pretty much been spoiled by Scottish posters if truth be known. All I've heard is Scottish posters rubbishing welsh players. Go back over the myriad of posts and you'll see it everywhere.

A lot of talk about K Brown, he is probably not even on standby, there was a post the end of last week listing Scottish players that had letters asking their availability for the tour, according to the Scottish paper, Brown was not on the list of around 7/8 players therefore, I conclude he is not on standby. I have heard 50 players received letters across the B&I teams so there are 13 players on standby hence, the players listed in the Scottish newspaper should be on standby. Hope this helps cheer up some of the Scottissh lads. The players claimed to have letters included (but did not have Maitland on the list):
Ross Ford
Greig Laidlaw
Matt Scott
Tim visser
Ryan Grant
Richie Gray
Stuart Hogg

Griff wrote:Lots of Scottish posters keep beating Wales with the 'lost to Australia' and 'lost to Samoa' stick. That's fine, and it did happen. But we've ALL lost to either top 3 teams or teams ranked below us, including Scotland. However, you seem fail to acknowledge your loss to Tonga at home with the likes of Kelly Brown playing. That's not to rub your noses in it, but you have to admit that your players have had their low points too.

No one has denied that. But recent wins against Australia, and recent wins against good sides in conditions similar/even harder to what the lions will be coming up against, should really be counting for something, but the impression were getting is that it hasnt and has been totally ignored. Even if only as dirt-trackers, there couldve been a group of players who know what its like to beat australia in australia. Even if none of them played in the tests, their experience would be invaluable. As it is, the majority of the squad is made up of welshmen (rightly in most cases), but they all have this collective monkey on their backs in that theyve played Australia more times in the past couple of years than the rest of us combined and have yet to win.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

RDW, my day has pretty much been spoiled by Scottish posters if truth be known. All I've heard is Scottish posters rubbishing welsh players. Go back over the myriad of posts and you'll see it everywhere.

From what I've seen the only Welsh player being rubbished is Lydiate - and even the Welsh are saying they wouldn't have picked him!

RDW, I've read about how Gethin should not tour as he is behind Sheridan at Toulon, even though he had a very good 6N. I've head AWJ being rubbished but with absolutely no reasons given. I've heard Sam Warburton rubbished more than Lydiate!

Griff wrote:RDW, I've read about how Gethin should not tour as he is behind Sheridan at Toulon, even though he had a very good 6N. I've head AWJ being rubbished but with absolutely no reasons given. I've heard Sam Warburton rubbished more than Lydiate!

Nobody has rubbished Lydiate as a player, only stating that there are players who can do the same job in excellent form that have been overlooked for him. Jenkins was in and out of the Wales side, he wasn't the clear front runner for the loosehead role for his country. It was a welshman that rubbished AWJ if you care to look again. Ignore that I was mistaken, he wasn't rubbished just considered to offer less than another welsh player

They are all valid arguments though, and it definitely isn't just the Scots saying that!

Jenkins I can just about accept - Lydiate I can't.

This thread has gone down hill rapidly. As a Scotsman, and as I said above, the only player we can really feel aggrieved about missing out is Brown, and then good arguments can be made for picking Lydiate and Croft. Picking the squad is subjective, and Gatland has gone for what he thinks is best.

Fair play, but then I feel the same way about Richie Gray's inclusion. Hines has been much better IMO. Yet I don't feel the need to foam at the mouth like a rabid dog and spit venom about it in these forums like some seem to be doing about Lydiate. Honestly, if you read some of it out of the context of a rugby forum you'd think he was a murderer. Posters changing their allegiances to Australia over the Lions, people talking of conspiracies and collusion. Get a grip!

EST wrote:This thread has gone down hill rapidly. As a Scotsman, and as I said above, the only player we can really feel aggrieved about missing out is Brown, and then good arguments can be made for picking Lydiate and Croft. Picking the squad is subjective, and Gatland has gone for what he thinks is best.

Not according to a lot on here, unfortunately.

Redrage wrote:

Griff wrote:RDW, I've read about how Gethin should not tour as he is behind Sheridan at Toulon, even though he had a very good 6N. I've head AWJ being rubbished but with absolutely no reasons given. I've heard Sam Warburton rubbished more than Lydiate!

Nobody has rubbished Lydiate as a player, only stating that there are players who can do the same job in excellent form that have been overlooked for him. Jenkins was in and out of the Wales side, he wasn't the clear front runner for the loosehead role for his country. It was a welshman that rubbished AWJ if you care to look again. Ignore that I was mistaken, he wasn't rubbished just considered to offer less than another welsh player

He's been rubbished more than once today.

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:This thread has gone down hill rapidly. As a Scotsman, and as I said above, the only player we can really feel aggrieved about missing out is Brown, and then good arguments can be made for picking Lydiate and Croft. Picking the squad is subjective, and Gatland has gone for what he thinks is best.

Not according to a lot on here, unfortunately.

But they are significantly overshadowed by the reasons not to pick him...

Griff wrote:Fair play, but then I feel the same way about Richie Gray's inclusion. Hines has been much better IMO. Yet I don't feel the need to foam at the mouth like a rabid dog and spit venom about it in these forums like some seem to be doing about Lydiate. Honestly, if you read some of it out of the context of a rugby forum you'd think he was a murderer. Posters changing their allegiances to Australia over the Lions, people talking of conspiracies and collusion. Get a grip!

You'd think this didn't happen every other week about less topical issues. I think you need to get a grip. It was one guy that said he'd support Australia, the other is an Aussie. Who mentioned conspiracies, I think it is quite transparent that Gatland has opted for what he knows and trusts. He is in charge so he gets to.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

RDW, my day has pretty much been spoiled by Scottish posters if truth be known. All I've heard is Scottish posters rubbishing welsh players. Go back over the myriad of posts and you'll see it everywhere.

Welcome to the world of being a scottish rugby supporter. We get that all year round not only from people on the forums, but even the media and so called pundits. And then we get labelled as whingers. Im sorry but I have no sympathy.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:This thread has gone down hill rapidly. As a Scotsman, and as I said above, the only player we can really feel aggrieved about missing out is Brown, and then good arguments can be made for picking Lydiate and Croft. Picking the squad is subjective, and Gatland has gone for what he thinks is best.

Not according to a lot on here, unfortunately.

But they are significantly overshadowed by the reasons not to pick him...

What are the reasons not to pick him? All posters have said is the he hasn't played in the 6N? That's only 1 reason!

I have a problem with Lydiate being picked not because he is not good enough but his game time and form at a high level, it is typical Gatland certain players can't do wrong in the Welsh team, I am amazed Preistland was not picked. The likes of R Jones, D Biggar, Byrne and Hook don't get a look in onless there is a shed load of injuries.

When the going get tough Warburton will go injured and there is a good chance Lydiate will be injured if he is not fully fit, I would rather he played on the easier Wales tour to get his fitness back.

Redrage wrote:

Griff wrote:Fair play, but then I feel the same way about Richie Gray's inclusion. Hines has been much better IMO. Yet I don't feel the need to foam at the mouth like a rabid dog and spit venom about it in these forums like some seem to be doing about Lydiate. Honestly, if you read some of it out of the context of a rugby forum you'd think he was a murderer. Posters changing their allegiances to Australia over the Lions, people talking of conspiracies and collusion. Get a grip!

You'd think this didn't happen every other week about less topical issues. I think you need to get a grip. It was one guy that said he'd support Australia, the other is an Aussie. Who mentioned conspiracies, I think it is quite transparent that Gatland has opted for what he knows and trusts. He is in charge so he gets to.

Agreed. bsando is an aussie-scot so its perfectly fair for him. The other guy, 21st century schizoid has announced he no longer supports scotland multiple times in the past when his favourite players havent been selected. He isnt indicative of the rest of us.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

RDW, my day has pretty much been spoiled by Scottish posters if truth be known. All I've heard is Scottish posters rubbishing welsh players. Go back over the myriad of posts and you'll see it everywhere.

Welcome to the world of being a scottish rugby supporter. We get that all year round not only from people on the forums, but even the media and so called pundits. And then we get labelled as whingers. Im sorry but I have no sympathy.

Yeah, OK. Since Wales won the 2005 Grand Slam slowly become the 'new England' on these forums - slowly but surely hated by everyone. We've got very little credit for winning 6N tournaments, very little credit for getting to a World Cup semi. It's always devalued wins, bad refereeing (have a look back at the 6N match posts), cheating, etc. not sure what worse - not doing very well and not getting recognised for it (Scotland), or actually doing pretty well and not being recognised for it (Wales). Sucks either way I guess.

Read the very 1st line of this OP, and you'll see my allegances lie.

I'm gutted that Grant and Brown aren't in the squad but I wouldn't support the soggy yellow wife beaters over the lions!

no offence our lovely Ozzie posters

Griff wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

RDW, my day has pretty much been spoiled by Scottish posters if truth be known. All I've heard is Scottish posters rubbishing welsh players. Go back over the myriad of posts and you'll see it everywhere.

Welcome to the world of being a scottish rugby supporter. We get that all year round not only from people on the forums, but even the media and so called pundits. And then we get labelled as whingers. Im sorry but I have no sympathy.

Yeah, OK. Since Wales won the 2005 Grand Slam slowly become the 'new England' on these forums - slowly but surely hated by everyone. We've got very little credit for winning 6N tournaments, very little credit for getting to a World Cup semi. It's always devalued wins, bad refereeing (have a look back at the 6N match posts), cheating, etc. not sure what worse - not doing very well and not getting recognised for it (Scotland), or actually doing pretty well and not being recognised for it (Wales). Sucks either way I guess.

Cry me a fecking river.

That comes part and parcel with winning. If you cant handle that what are you doing on a forum? If you know that you guys are good then why do you care about the credit lesser supporters arent giving?

We get kicked in the balls while were already down. Its a daily occurence to see posts implying that we cant have good individual players because our team as a whole isnt that great. Its a daily experience to see people advocating us being relegated out of the 6N because we dont bring anything according to you lot. Its a daily experience to see sneering, mocking posts about some aspect of scottish rugby.

Redrage wrote:

Griff wrote:Fair play, but then I feel the same way about Richie Gray's inclusion. Hines has been much better IMO. Yet I don't feel the need to foam at the mouth like a rabid dog and spit venom about it in these forums like some seem to be doing about Lydiate. Honestly, if you read some of it out of the context of a rugby forum you'd think he was a murderer. Posters changing their allegiances to Australia over the Lions, people talking of conspiracies and collusion. Get a grip!

You'd think this didn't happen every other week about less topical issues. I think you need to get a grip. It was one guy that said he'd support Australia, the other is an Aussie. Who mentioned conspiracies, I think it is quite transparent that Gatland has opted for what he knows and trusts. He is in charge so he gets to.

Who is changing their allegiances to Australia Griff? I think most Scottish posters are just letting out their frustration today and will back the Lions all the way.

RDW_Scotland wrote:How come it is generally the Welsh that feel the need to put the boot in with Scottish players? Haven't found many Irish or English posters who go out their way to rubbish any arguments against us feeling disappointed with our representation...

I think, to be fair Welsh and Scottish fans are both guilty of "putting the boot in". I think Scottish fans are guilty of talking their players up against Welsh ones more than others, when maybe they should be looking elsewhere. I can understand the Brown over Lydiate talk, but not ones like Grant over Jenkins, when I'd say Grant should be getting compared with Vunipola. We also get Laidlaw over Phillips, when it should maybe be over Murray and a few others.

Serious question now (though it probably won't sit too well), but do any Scots think you expected too much (even subconsciously)? There was talk of 11-13 Lions from Scotland a while back.

Glasgow have also benefited from some very astute over seas signings mind, and Embra are still a bit gash.

You have more Lions this tour than last, its an improvement, man up