If I was Scottish...

...well, I'd be miffed to say the least that some fine Scottish players had been overlooked for Lions selection; but what would really stick in the craw would be the BBC's coverage of the announcement.

On the way home on Radio 2, and just now on the 6 o'clock news, the Beeb made a big deal of the fact that England's captain had been left out of the squad; but they didn't mention that Scotland's captain had also been omitted. Why was that? Did they forget they were broadcasting north of the border? Didn't they think it mattered?

Clearly, it didn't occur to them that Kelly Brown's omission should be mentioned, even in passing. That's disgraceful, no?

Don't get me started! Thanks for noticing tho luckless

Sadly there are simply better players available in a lot of cases.

Beating Italy and an injury ravaged Ireland is hardly the stuff of legend, and this season Scotland were exceptional.

Its not about results. Brown and Grant were more worthy of inclusion than Lydiate or Stevens

Radge, it obviously didn't cross anyone's mind, from the writing of the script to the airing of the report, that the omission of Scotland's captain might be worth mentioning. On Radio 2 they mentioned that Rory Best had been left out, but not Kelly Brown. What the chuff?

The one thing I can accept, is the fact that we aren't worthy of mentioning. The last decade we have been poor and I fear it may have left a permanent stain on Scottish rugby.

Kelly Brown at 30 years old just now can now join Jason White and Chris Patterson as lions that will sadly never roar

He'll probably go Radge, with injuries likely. And remember, some of the best players have been the replacements - Ryan Jones in 2005 (I think he got player of the Lions) and Scott Gibbs on 1997 - both called up due to injuries and played starring roles.

See, it's the inequity of the reporting that really riles me. The captain of one of the British nations is left out, the Beeb put it in the first sentence of their report; the captain of another of the British nations is also left out, they don't even mention it.

It reminds me of an episode of Breakfast in 2011 when Charlie Stayt said: 'The Rugby World Cup kicks off in New Zealand today - we'll be assessing England's chances.'

I swear, they forget they're broadcasting beyond England.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Its not about results. Brown and Grant were more worthy of inclusion than Lydiate or Stevens

I agree that's fair. However I'd of gone for Ryan Jones over Brown.
How the hell the Welsh captain isn't there are leading Wales to such success this season in mind boggling.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The one thing I can accept, is the fact that we aren't worthy of mentioning. The last decade we have been poor and I fear it may have left a permanent stain on Scottish rugby.

Kelly Brown at 30 years old just now can now join Jason White and Chris Patterson as lions that will sadly never roar

What happened to Scottish rugby, is sad for all rugby fans, but you can and will come back. Look at Wales in the 90's mate.
Has Scotland lost 96-13 to to South Africa?
Did Scotland lose 63-6 to Australia? (75-6 in todays scores).

Scotland do need to make a lot of changes, making another professional team would be a good start, but they'll be back.

Ryan Jones isn't the named captain of wales Warburton is Ryan Jones was only Captain when warbs was injured and then warbs did the right thing for his team and by letting gethin be captain for him to focus on getting form back and theres nothing that ses he has stepped down as the captain of wales

It sucks, but broadcasters will always report what they think the majority of their listeners want to hear about, and it's a fact that there are ten times as many people in England as there are in Scotland, and that's before you consider how unpopular rugby is up here. The majority of Scots will have no idea who Kelly Brown is, so the people interested in his non-selection represent a tiny proportion of Radio 2 listeners. You can understand how they leave him out of what is probably a 2-minute sports section. It's the same logic that results in the Old Firm dominating Scottish sports coverage at the expense of other teams and sports - sadly it represents the distibution of interest.

You might be right, Pat; but as a rugby story, it's just as significant that the Scottish captain has been left out as it is that the English captain has been left out.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You might be right, Pat; but as a rugby story, it's just as significant that the Scottish captain has been left out as it is that the English captain has been left out.

So was the 1st choice Wales captain!

Absolutely, and I wish they would talk about Scotland more, but broadcasters are only interested in one thing, and that's listener/viewer numbers. I'm pretty sure all decisions they take are based on pleasing the largest number of people possible. There's also the fact that the report will be compiled by a Jack-of-all-trades sports journalist who probably doesn't really follow rugby and still thinks Jonny Wilkinson is the world's greatest player, hence all the "shock" headlines about him being left out, "Wilkinson's Toulon" making the HC final, etc etc...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:...well, I'd be miffed to say the least that some fine Scottish players had been overlooked for Lions selection; but what would really stick in the craw would be the BBC's coverage of the announcement.

On the way home on Radio 2, and just now on the 6 o'clock news, the Beeb made a big deal of the fact that England's captain had been left out of the squad; but they didn't mention that Scotland's captain had also been omitted. Why was that? Did they forget they were broadcasting north of the border? Didn't they think it mattered?

Clearly, it didn't occur to them that Kelly Brown's omission should be mentioned, even in passing. That's disgraceful, no?

Lucky, this is not new in the slightest - in fact, with regards to the upcoming independence referendum, there is some talk of the Beeb being referred to the Electoral commission for biased reporting - it's bad enough the print media, but appalling when it's the so-called independent, national broadcaster

We will just have to make ourselves more high-profile through performances until they can't ignore us!

Griff wrote:He'll probably go Radge, with injuries likely. And remember, some of the best players have been the replacements - Ryan Jones in 2005 (I think he got player of the Lions) and Scott Gibbs on 1997 - both called up due to injuries and played starring roles.

Griff, Rowentree has as good as promised that Robshaw will be the first backrow replacement called upon, presumably in an effort to repair damaged relations with his captain at country level

Kelly Brown could be a 7 call up though couldn't he, in theory? His most recent game was at 7 wasn't it?

Griff wrote:Kelly Brown could be a 7 call up though couldn't he, in theory? His most recent game was at 7 wasn't it?

Suppose it's possible, but he's really a blindside thru and thru, that can also play 7 and 8; plus SOB is a natural 7 back-up if either of the Welsh opensides were to get injured

The BBC also failed to mention that the Wales captain isn't captaining The Lions.

From another perspective, I'm sure BBC Wales and BBC Alba have redressed the balance that BBC "England" has so miserably failed to find...

If it had been BBC England, PJ, then there'd be no problem. But there isn't a BBC England, which opens up another can of thistles and leeks.

Equally annoying is the huge amount of media time dedicated to Jonny Wilkinson not making the tour. I just don't get it.

To the rugby fan what you say makes sense... but to the everyday sports fan (however many times larger then the rugby fan overall numbers) they will be interested in Wilkinson and the England captain (probably the only 2 rugby players they know by name and face).

Listeners and readership counts.

How many people will be interested into why Ryan Jones or Kelly Brown didn't make the team?
How many people will be interested into why Chris Robshaw didn't make the team?

Best just to accept demographic demand and supply.

its not unsuprising nor is it unusual. the BBC is actually the EBC

fa0019 wrote:To the rugby fan what you say makes sense... but to the everyday sports fan (however many times larger then the rugby fan overall numbers) they will be interested in Wilkinson and the England captain (probably the only 2 rugby players they know by name and face).

Listeners and readership counts.

How many people will be interested into why Ryan Jones or Kelly Brown didn't make the team?
How many people will be interested into why Chris Robshaw didn't make the team?

Best just to accept demographic demand and supply.

In which case why bother with rugby at all. Far more people are interested in football and the X Factor.

Shifty wrote:
Has Scotland lost 96-13 to to South Africa?
Did Scotland lose 63-6 to Australia? (75-6 in todays scores).

That's a very good point. We've beaten South Africa, as well as Australia back to back in the last few years.

Interestingly during the nineties Wales still got far better representation than Scotland have over the Naughties.

2001 - Wales finished 4th in 6 Nations behind all British and Irish teams yet got 11 players on the Lions tour
1997 - Wales finished 3rd in 6Nations behind England and Ireland and on equal points with Scotland yet got 7 on the Lions tour
1993 - Wales got the Wooden Spoon yet got 7 players on the Lions tour
1989 - Wales got the Wooden Spoon yet got 7 players on the Lions tour

We're very lucky if we get 2 or 3 players, even when we finish 3rd and have a team as dominant/competitive as Glasgow are in the Rabocop league.

One thing I was struck by in the build up to the announcement was that most journalists, pundits, former players and coaches seem to know nothing about the Scottish players. You'd think they'd have watched a few games like Glasgow's demolition of Munster and the Ospreys?! POC was selected based on a couple of games for Munster, yet someone like Grant (who scored a brace against the Ospreys) who has been doing it all season gets left at home.

Whatever Gatland says about picking on form, a lot of these choices are about reputation and sadly as most English and Welsh coaches have rarely seen Glasgow play, they have no reputation.

I was watching the news on BBC Alba the other day and they didn't even mention vowels. Shocking. Luckily i flipped over to S4C, so that helped a lot.
I tried looking for BBC Evil Moustache Twiddling Overlords but apparently it doesn't exist.

madmaccas wrote:
2001 - Wales finished 4th in 6 Nations behind all British and Irish teams yet got 11 players on the Lions tour
1997 - Wales finished 3rd in 6Nations behind England and Ireland and on equal points with Scotland yet got 7 on the Lions tour
1993 - Wales got the Wooden Spoon yet got 7 players on the Lions tour
1989 - Wales got the Wooden Spoon yet got 7 players on the Lions tour

Ouyr problem is we do not have the media interest to inflate the reputations of our players. Wales get so many because the Welsh media run a great campaign on how the welsh boys are so fantastic. Our media only go as far as saying "Scotland played rugby yesterday"

Until we have a tooting champion press then we'll never get the same number of lions reps as wales and england!

madmaccas wrote:

Shifty wrote:
Has Scotland lost 96-13 to to South Africa?
Did Scotland lose 63-6 to Australia? (75-6 in todays scores).

That's a very good point. We've beaten South Africa, as well as Australia back to back in the last few years.

Interestingly during the nineties Wales still got far better representation than Scotland have over the Naughties.

2001 - Wales finished 4th in 6 Nations behind all British and Irish teams yet got 11 players on the Lions tour
1997 - Wales finished 3rd in 6Nations behind England and Ireland and on equal points with Scotland yet got 7 on the Lions tour
1993 - Wales got the Wooden Spoon yet got 7 players on the Lions tour
1989 - Wales got the Wooden Spoon yet got 7 players on the Lions tour

We're very lucky if we get 2 or 3 players, even when we finish 3rd and have a team as dominant/competitive as Glasgow are in the Rabocop league.

One thing I was struck by in the build up to the announcement was that most journalists, pundits, former players and coaches seem to know nothing about the Scottish players. You'd think they'd have watched a few games like Glasgow's demolition of Munster and the Ospreys?! POC was selected based on a couple of games for Munster, yet someone like Grant (who scored a brace against the Ospreys) who has been doing it all season gets left at home.

Whatever Gatland says about picking on form, a lot of these choices are about reputation and sadly as most English and Welsh coaches have rarely seen Glasgow play, they have no reputation.

How out of touch are you?
It may come as a bit of a shock but there are four Welsh sides in the Rabo all of which play Glasgow twice a season.Do you seriously think that they are not aware of the strengths and weaknesses of opposing sides?I know we may appear to be amateurish in our approach but I cannot believe that our lot don't take any notice.
Remove the chip from your shoulder,take your tartan specs off and if your national side start beating England and Wales on a regular basis things may start to look rosier.

I think he's got a point, Taff. Scrum V don't pay any attention to Glasgow even though they've been near the top of the table all season. Sky Sports don't bother with any non-English side once they're out of Europe. The Scottish sides do fly under the radar.

I was guilty of it myself. Until Glasgow came down to Rodney Parade on that fateful day and schooled - utterly schooled - the Dragons, I hadn't paid them any attention. Since then, I've watched their games on BBC Alba and they play such a great brand of rugby. But if I hadn't gone looking for them, I wouldn't have known it.

That's something that really has to improve - UK-wide coverage of the Pro-12. If Glasgow or Edinburgh have a game on BBC Alba, BBC Wales should trail it, or at the least have the game as an option on the red button. Same when Ulster have a game on BBC Northern Ireland.

A few weeks ago, BBC Wales were showing live coverage of the Scarlets v Glasgow. At the same time on BBC Northern Ireland, Ulster were playing the Dragons; but there was no red button option for viewers in Wales to watch the game at Ravenhill. I had to watch on my laptop, because it was being shown on the BBC website. Ludicrous!

Have you tried changing the channel to watch BBC Northern Ireland? Assuming you have digital television?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think he's got a point, Taff. Scrum V don't pay any attention to Glasgow even though they've been near the top of the table all season. Sky Sports don't bother with any non-English side once they're out of Europe. The Scottish sides do fly under the radar.

I was guilty of it myself. Until Glasgow came down to Rodney Parade on that fateful day and schooled - utterly schooled - the Dragons, I hadn't paid them any attention. Since then, I've watched their games on BBC Alba and they play such a great brand of rugby. But if I hadn't gone looking for them, I wouldn't have known it.

Words cannot espress how nice those comments are. A lot of Welsh posters on here are good guys and we have a few bad apples, you all know who you are.

But this comment has brightened up what has been a dark week across the Northern Border of the UK. My thanks

I can get BBC 1 Northern Ireland, EE, but not BBC 2 Northern Ireland.

Radge, it's the truth. Glasgow's offloading game is a joy to watch - because by and large, they know when it's on and when it's not.

Well, apart from Matawalu, but then he more than makes up for any mistake he makes. I've said it before, he's a pearl of a player.

Have you got Freesat LP, it's on channel 969. Don't think you can get it on freeview. On Sky it's 972.

I've got Virgin Media. Even if I did have BBC 2 Northern Ireland, that's not really the point. There were two Welsh regions playing that evening, both matches were being shown by the BBC, but Scrum V didn't even as much as mention that the Dragons game was being broadcast.

Taffineastbourne wrote:
How out of touch are you?
It may come as a bit of a shock but there are four Welsh sides in the Rabo all of which play Glasgow twice a season.Do you seriously think that they are not aware of the strengths and weaknesses of opposing sides?I know we may appear to be amateurish in our approach but I cannot believe that our lot don't take any notice.
Remove the chip from your shoulder,take your tartan specs off and if your national side start beating England and Wales on a regular basis things may start to look rosier.

Testy much?

You talk about chips yet say yourself:

I know we may appear to be amateurish in our approach

I'm not saying the regional coaches don't pay any attention to Scottish teams, I'm saying Gatland et al haven't been. They've only been to Heineken, Amlin and Aviva games. The only member of the team to come North was Dr Robson testing Richie Gray's fitness.

Oh and we'll start beating England and Wales when the Welsh start beating the Aussies. How long has it been again?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think he's got a point, Taff. Scrum V don't pay any attention to Glasgow even though they've been near the top of the table all season. Sky Sports don't bother with any non-English side once they're out of Europe. The Scottish sides do fly under the radar.

I was guilty of it myself. Until Glasgow came down to Rodney Parade on that fateful day and schooled - utterly schooled - the Dragons, I hadn't paid them any attention. Since then, I've watched their games on BBC Alba and they play such a great brand of rugby. But if I hadn't gone looking for them, I wouldn't have known it.

He actually accused the Welsh coaches of ignorance of Glasgow not the general public.

madmaccas wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:
How out of touch are you?

I'm not saying the regional coaches don't pay any attention to Scottish teams, I'm saying Gatland et

Please read What you wrote and you will find that is precisely what you said!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think he's got a point, Taff. Scrum V don't pay any attention to Glasgow even though they've been near the top of the table all season. Sky Sports don't bother with any non-English side once they're out of Europe. The Scottish sides do fly under the radar.

I was guilty of it myself. Until Glasgow came down to Rodney Parade on that fateful day and schooled - utterly schooled - the Dragons, I hadn't paid them any attention. Since then, I've watched their games on BBC Alba and they play such a great brand of rugby. But if I hadn't gone looking for them, I wouldn't have known it.

He actually accused the Welsh coaches of ignorance of Glasgow not the general public.

Actually I think you'll find I 'accused'

"journalists, pundits, former players and coaches"

of seeming to know nothing about the Scottish players. That comes under the banner of the media and Lions coaches, so Luckless Pedestrian was spot on. Of course the regional coaches do, it's their job and they sit in the stands at every game - they're not the ones picking the Lions

[quote="madmaccas"]

Shifty wrote:
and sadly as most English and Welsh coaches have rarely seen Glasgow play, they have no reputation.

I am sorry to have misconstrued these words which seemed fairly clear.

[quote="Taffineastbourne"]

madmaccas wrote:

Shifty wrote:
and sadly as most English and Welsh coaches have rarely seen Glasgow play, they have no reputation.

I am sorry to have misconstrued these words which seemed fairly clear.

Oh you're hard work.

I'm talking about Warren Gatland, Graham Rowntree, Rob Howley and Andy Farrell.

What has this got to do with my post? Do you honestly think Scottish players get as much TV and media coverage as the English and Welsh?

If I was Scottish i would move to Wales

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think he's got a point, Taff. Scrum V don't pay any attention to Glasgow even though they've been near the top of the table all season. Sky Sports don't bother with any non-English side once they're out of Europe. The Scottish sides do fly under the radar.

I was guilty of it myself. Until Glasgow came down to Rodney Parade on that fateful day and schooled - utterly schooled - the Dragons, I hadn't paid them any attention. Since then, I've watched their games on BBC Alba and they play such a great brand of rugby. But if I hadn't gone looking for them, I wouldn't have known it.

Words cannot espress how nice those comments are. A lot of Welsh posters on here are good guys and we have a few bad apples, you all know who you are.

But this comment has brightened up what has been a dark week across the Northern Border of the UK. My thanks

The best thing that has happened to our league in a while is the Rabodirect account on the YouTube. It's good to see tries and better highlights from a lot more games.

100%beefy wrote:If I was Scottish i would move to Wales

Tried that. Wasn't a fan

Of course I should point out I am only joking........but not really. No I am.











I'm not

[quote="madmaccas"]

Taffineastbourne wrote:

madmaccas wrote:

Shifty wrote:
and sadly as most English and Welsh coaches have rarely seen Glasgow play, they have no reputation.

I am sorry to have misconstrued these words which seemed fairly clear.

Oh you're hard work.

I'm talking about Warren Gatland, Graham Rowntree, Rob Howley and Andy Farrell.

What has this got to do with my post? Do you honestly think Scottish players get as much TV and media coverage as the English and Welsh?

This was from your post.
Regards to media coverage,take it from me,each weekend of the 6n's there is only one country taking part in the media down here and it ain't Wales.The coverage of the Wales v England match was all about England beforehand and how England lost afterwards :Wales hardly got a mention.
You may feel put upon but trust me,you are not the only ones.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If it had been BBC England, PJ, then there'd be no problem. But there isn't a BBC England, which opens up another can of thistles and leeks.

Precisely the point Lucky, there is no BBC England, so therefore, anything Englandcentric the BBC broadcast on the traditional channels or national news will offend someone in either Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland. The other UK nations have their own channels where they can broadcast nation specific news to their hearts content without fear of offence, England does not have that luxury and thus offence will be created by default as opposed to a premeditated process.

Just saying like.

PJHolybloke wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If it had been BBC England, PJ, then there'd be no problem. But there isn't a BBC England, which opens up another can of thistles and leeks.

Precisely the point Lucky, there is no BBC England, so therefore, anything Englandcentric the BBC broadcast on the traditional channels or national news will offend someone in either Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland. The other UK nations have their own channels where they can broadcast nation specific news to their hearts content without fear of offence, England does not have that luxury and thus offence will be created by default as opposed to a premeditated process.

Just saying like.

Not true! BBC Wales, BBC NI and BBC Scotland are just regional channels. Depending where you live you get different things beamed to your tv, or if you have sky then you can pick them all up: England has 16 regional channels! I just counted them. One for every part of England: BBC Oxford, BBC S East, BBC South, BBC E Mids, BBC N West, etc., etc. Not got a problem with this, but just thought I'd point out that England has it's own regional channels too. These channels will show something different when BBC 2 Wales, for example, is showing Scrum V. Maybe Inverdale has his own show at this time?!

Risca Rev wrote:The best thing that has happened to our league in a while is the Rabodirect account on the YouTube. It's good to see tries and better highlights from a lot more games.

Hear hear.

Finally I can catch up with games right across the league. Gonna enjoy watching all the notable events from the other five games running simultaneously to ours on Friday night the next day