Australian take on Welsh dominance of Lions

There's an interesting article on Australian sports site TheRoar about the Welsh dominance of the Lions.

HERE

Spiro makes a good point regarding Sam Warburton's comment yesterday about leading the Lions:

“I’ve got a strong Welsh contingent of leaders I can rely on,”

Bit of a kick in the teeth to POC and BOD. Does this signify that there'll be a Welsh clique? Certainly doesn't bode well for tour unity imo.

Gatland throughout his international career has constructed a tight knit community of players who will do what he says without question and will honour his demands for discretion, he has never given a monkeys about diplomacy....... Warbs is clearly revealing the same aspirations

Yawn. I'm just waiting for Campese to jump on the bandwagon and start attacking the Lions. All good copy of course.

The Lions will of course to conscious to avoid cliques from forming, you can be certain of that.

Spiro is always a bit controversial... he's a good chap though, I recall reading some tripe he wrote about the boks a few years back and after I sent him an email reply contesting those I was very surprised to not only get a sincere reply but a breakdown into his reasoning. He's a really passionate rugby man and not just in it to make digs and get paid.... although his ideas can be a little warped at times.

Every country has them... we have Mark Keohane who famously backed Pdivvy to be a messiah and most recently said the EP Kings would beat the bulls in Pretoria (eventual result 0-33).

What came after that comma in the quote?

fa0019 wrote:Every country has them... we have Mark Keohane who famously backed Pdivvy to be a messiah and most recently said the EP Kings would beat the bulls in Pretoria (eventual result 0-33).

Agree. Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times does nothing other than spew nonsense to wind up as many people as possible. Every country has them.

Ah the humor - the metro today has an article titled

'Silent Sam is Lion's New Johnno'

POC and BOD will be right there alongside Sam - Australia media not doing their team any favours

lostinwales wrote:Ah the humor - the metro today has an article titled

'Silent Sam is Lion's New Johnno'

brilliant.... the latest captain to be hailed as being like Johnson, every England captain since has been hailed as such... even Borthwick

They even picked O'Connell in the last tour because of his similiarities to the great man.

Actually the comments make for a good read in places - I like this one

'Against England we have lost two of the last four
Against Ireland we have lost one and drawn one of the last three
Against Scotland we have lost the last two
Against Wales we have won the last eight
Why load up on red dragons?'

lostinwales wrote:Actually the comments make for a good read in places - I like this one

'Against England we have lost two of the last four
Against Ireland we have lost one and drawn one of the last three
Against Scotland we have lost the last two
Against Wales we have won the last eight
Why load up on red dragons?'

I like it, if a bit harsh.
But then the truth often is.

lol

lostinwales wrote:Actually the comments make for a good read in places - I like this one

'Against England we have lost two of the last four
Against Ireland we have lost one and drawn one of the last three
Against Scotland we have lost the last two
Against Wales we have won the last eight
Why load up on red dragons?'

Haha, I like that.

Ha -
Barnes said something similar in his summary of the squad being named -
Something about the Australians not having a problem with beating the Welsh lions contingent, and the reverse about the Welsh contingent playing a loosing against Australia.

In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

No 7&1/2 wrote:What came after that comma in the quote?

I'm glad someone asked the question. Here's what he said:

"There's a good Welsh contingent of leaders who I can rely on and there are other experienced players in the squad who can help me along the way."

But then, where's the fun in that?

The Welsh squad and a Lions side sporting a heavy Welsh contingent are two different things. Wales by themselves have consistently been a midge's breath away from turning the Aussies over home and away despite usually turning up the wrong end of the scoreboard. Complemented by players with extra experience (at beating the Aussies and in other things) and players who specialise in the demands of their positions, the series is wide open.

Wales have been the most successful NH side post-WC therefore the heavy Welsh representation is hardly surprising. What other logic was on offer? Fill the squad with Scots or Irishmen or Englishmen on the basis of one or two recent wins against a SH side? To clarify, I do not agree with every single selection that Gatland has made (I was as surprised as anyone to see Lydiate, Croft, Stevens and Hartley included and Best and Robshaw omitted) but the "too many Welsh" card is getting old and makes increasingly less sense every time I hear it thrown around.

Here's a more optimistic way of looking at the selection, 20 of the 37 players selected (Hogg, Kearney, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Roberts, Sexton, Murray, Youngs, Cole, Healy, Jenkins, Adam Jones, Stevens, Hartley, Gray, AW Jones, O'Connell, Croft, Heaslip and O'Brien) all have experience beating the Aussies... more than enough

Knowsit17 wrote:The Welsh squad and a Lions side sporting a heavy Welsh contingent are two different things. Wales by themselves have consistently been a midge's breath away from turning the Aussies over home and away despite usually turning up the wrong end of the scoreboard. Complemented by players with extra experience (at beating the Aussies and in other things) and players who specialise in the demands of their positions, the series is wide open.

Wales have been the most successful NH side post-WC therefore the heavy Welsh representation is hardly surprising. What other logic was on offer? Fill the squad with Scots or Irishmen or Englishmen on the basis of one or two recent wins against a SH side? To clarify, I do not agree with every single selection that Gatland has made (I was as surprised as anyone to see Lydiate, Croft, Stevens and Hartley included and Best and Robshaw omitted) but the "too many Welsh" card is getting old and makes increasingly less sense every time I hear it thrown around.

Here's a more optimistic way of looking at the selection, 20 of the 37 players selected (Hogg, Kearney, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Roberts, Sexton, Murray, Youngs, Cole, Healy, Jenkins, Adam Jones, Stevens, Hartley, Gray, AW Jones, O'Connell, Croft, Heaslip and O'Brien) all have experience beating the Aussies... more than enough

Only if some of those actually play in the tests, chap

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:The Welsh squad and a Lions side sporting a heavy Welsh contingent are two different things. Wales by themselves have consistently been a midge's breath away from turning the Aussies over home and away despite usually turning up the wrong end of the scoreboard. Complemented by players with extra experience (at beating the Aussies and in other things) and players who specialise in the demands of their positions, the series is wide open.

Wales have been the most successful NH side post-WC therefore the heavy Welsh representation is hardly surprising. What other logic was on offer? Fill the squad with Scots or Irishmen or Englishmen on the basis of one or two recent wins against a SH side? To clarify, I do not agree with every single selection that Gatland has made (I was as surprised as anyone to see Lydiate, Croft, Stevens and Hartley included and Best and Robshaw omitted) but the "too many Welsh" card is getting old and makes increasingly less sense every time I hear it thrown around.

Here's a more optimistic way of looking at the selection, 20 of the 37 players selected (Hogg, Kearney, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Roberts, Sexton, Murray, Youngs, Cole, Healy, Jenkins, Adam Jones, Stevens, Hartley, Gray, AW Jones, O'Connell, Croft, Heaslip and O'Brien) all have experience beating the Aussies... more than enough

Only if some of those actually play in the tests, chap

True but what are the odds that hardly any of them will play in the tests? Barring injury, we're virtually guaranteed to field a front row with good combined experience of doing it (1.Healy 2.Hartley 3.A Jones or 1.Jenkins 2.Hartley 3.Cole). Same with the second row. We're likely to play at least one back rower who's done it before. Many people's touted halfback pairing of Youngs and Sexton would also fit the bill nicely. And with five back three players who have gone through it before, I'd say we can rest easy with the knowledge that a considerable part of the starting XV are likely to be familiar with what it takes.

lostinwales wrote:Actually the comments make for a good read in places - I like this one

'Against England we have lost two of the last four
Against Ireland we have lost one and drawn one of the last three
Against Scotland we have lost the last two
Against Wales we have won the last eight
Why load up on red dragons?'

Because the Lions replace the out of form players who lost us the games against Australia in the last few seconds with in form or better players.

lostinwales wrote:Actually the comments make for a good read in places - I like this one

'Against England we have lost two of the last four
Against Ireland we have lost one and drawn one of the last three
Against Scotland we have lost the last two
Against Wales we have won the last eight
Why load up on red dragons?'

Why load up on red dragons? It's the only chance they'll get to beat Australia

Seriously though, Wales are being talked up on the basis of one superb performance, despite being pants against Ireland, France, Tonga and others, and having no clubs performing at a high level.

It's a bit like judging England players purely on the basis of them thumping the All Blacks.

fa0019 wrote:In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

I don't want to post because people with shout 'moral victories', but I can't help myself! If memory serves 3 of the last 5 encounters with Aus, Wales were leading in the last few minutes and then either gave away penalties or a length of the field try. Not sure I'd call that comfortable and in control by Aus.

Griff wrote:

fa0019 wrote:In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

I don't want to post because people with shout 'moral victories', but I can't help myself! If memory serves 3 of the last 5 encounters with Aus, Wales were leading in the last few minutes and then either gave away penalties or a length of the field try. Not sure I'd call that comfortable and in control by Aus.

All people care about on here, is stats. Nobody cares about the finer details like you mention. Isn't it far easier to spout off the same rubbish like Wales' bosh tactics don't work, or 8 on the spin?

Risca Rev wrote:

Griff wrote:

fa0019 wrote:In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

I don't want to post because people with shout 'moral victories', but I can't help myself! If memory serves 3 of the last 5 encounters with Aus, Wales were leading in the last few minutes and then either gave away penalties or a length of the field try. Not sure I'd call that comfortable and in control by Aus.

All people care about on here, is stats. Nobody cares about the finer details like you mention. Isn't it far easier to spout off the same rubbish like Wales' bosh tactics don't work, or 8 on the spin?

Losing 1 match in such a way is unlucky, twice is coincidental but when you see that no matter how close Wales could have been to winning they still haven't done so against a Tri-Nations opponent since the Aus game 2008, that implies it isn't just luck or happenstance

The Aussie press hasn't got going yet - it is likely to be brutal. There again perhaps it needs to be. The Lions have only lost one series in Australia and that was to arguably the best Aussie team ever, and it was mighty close.

So...they won't admit it but the Aussies are worried that the Lions will return to business as usual and win. If the so called "overrated" Wales can run them very very close in three tests what will the combined strength of the home nations achieve. Yes - the Aussies are nervous, we have a very strong squad with some exceptional young talent and a few old heads. We should be optimistic of a 3-nil series.

I think the Ozzie press will be disappointed by this side. Theres no real story other than Welsh numbers. Its predictable, safe and frankly Gatlands given them peanuts to munch off, so they'll invent stuff- more likely about the fact that two kiwi coaches are going at it...

Too be honest i cannot wait for the first test to be over with. I just have a feeling that the Lions are going too get "creamed" by the Aussies.

Having looked at the team (Lions) team that is it Looks a bit under power. If that is the right word?

I just feel that the Likes of BOWE, POC, LYDATE. should not even be in the squad due to lack of game time. and their fore their performances may not be up too standard.

Is Mat Stevens really that good?

Will Australia be "quaking " in their boots? I doubt it. I just think that Australia will have a load of respect for the Lions. But not that much respect.

Taylorman wrote:I think the Ozzie press will be disappointed by this side. Theres no real story other than Welsh numbers. Its predictable, safe and frankly Gatlands given them peanuts to munch off, so they'll invent stuff- more likely about the fact that two kiwi coaches are going at it...

Oh dunno about that!

We've got a player who has been banned for drugs

6 Players born in the Southern Hemisphere

Dylan Hartley (and everything that comes with him)

And an extreme case of nepotism

majesticimperialman wrote:Too be honest i cannot wait for the first test to be over with. I just have a feeling that the Lions are going too get "creamed" by the Aussies.

Having looked at the team (Lions) team that is it Looks a bit under power. If that is the right word?

I just feel that the Likes of BOWE, POC, LYDATE. should not even be in the squad due to lack of game time. and their fore their performances may not be up too standard.

Is Mat Stevens really that good?

Will Australia be "quaking " in their boots? I doubt it. I just think that Australia will have a load of respect for the Lions. But not that much respect.

Other than Best (very strange decision) where do you think the "power" is missing? Do the players not exist or has he left more "powerful" players out?

Yeah I think there's plenty wrong with the selection but a lack of power isn't really a factor

majesticimperialman wrote:Too be honest i cannot wait for the first test to be over with. I just have a feeling that the Lions are going too get "creamed" by the Aussies.

Having looked at the team (Lions) team that is it Looks a bit under power. If that is the right word?

I just feel that the Likes of BOWE, POC, LYDATE. should not even be in the squad due to lack of game time. and their fore their performances may not be up too standard.

Is Mat Stevens really that good?

Will Australia be "quaking " in their boots? I doubt it. I just think that Australia will have a load of respect for the Lions. But not that much respect.

Firstly, are you drunk? You're writing like you've nailed 20 cans of Stella. Secondly, how have you seen the Lions team??? They haven't even played a warm up game yet!

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Griff wrote:

fa0019 wrote:In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

I don't want to post because people with shout 'moral victories', but I can't help myself! If memory serves 3 of the last 5 encounters with Aus, Wales were leading in the last few minutes and then either gave away penalties or a length of the field try. Not sure I'd call that comfortable and in control by Aus.

All people care about on here, is stats. Nobody cares about the finer details like you mention. Isn't it far easier to spout off the same rubbish like Wales' bosh tactics don't work, or 8 on the spin?

Losing 1 match in such a way is unlucky, twice is coincidental but when you see that no matter how close Wales could have been to winning they still haven't done so against a Tri-Nations opponent since the Aus game 2008, that implies it isn't just luck or happenstance

It's a good point but at least some of it could be put down to a lack of bottle from Wales in the closing minutes and an inability to close out tight games against SH opposition. Like in the second summer test when Wales were in a commanding position and made a meal of possession at the death. Same with the autumn test. There's nothing to say Aus anticipated every bit of it, expected to find themselves trailing and knew exactly how to respond. Not trying to make Wales out to be bigger than we really are but I've seen more than one recent defeat to SH opposition which was more down to Welsh errors than opposition superiority.

Knowsit17 wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Griff wrote:

fa0019 wrote:In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

I don't want to post because people with shout 'moral victories', but I can't help myself! If memory serves 3 of the last 5 encounters with Aus, Wales were leading in the last few minutes and then either gave away penalties or a length of the field try. Not sure I'd call that comfortable and in control by Aus.

All people care about on here, is stats. Nobody cares about the finer details like you mention. Isn't it far easier to spout off the same rubbish like Wales' bosh tactics don't work, or 8 on the spin?

Losing 1 match in such a way is unlucky, twice is coincidental but when you see that no matter how close Wales could have been to winning they still haven't done so against a Tri-Nations opponent since the Aus game 2008, that implies it isn't just luck or happenstance

It's a good point but at least some of it could be put down to a lack of bottle from Wales in the closing minutes and an inability to close out tight games against SH opposition. Like in the second summer test when Wales were in a commanding position and made a meal of possession at the death. Same with the autumn test. There's nothing to say Aus anticipated every bit of it, expected to find themselves trailing and knew exactly how to respond. Not trying to make Wales out to be bigger than we really are but I've seen more than one recent defeat to SH opposition which was more down to Welsh errors than opposition superiority.

But then if the majority of players starting for the Lions and the captain who leads them are the same as those who made these match-losing errors, playing under the same manager in the same style with the same lack of bottle and composure, why should I feel confident of a Lions victory? It just makes me feel we are more likely to lose from a winning position, just like T2 2009. Unless the leadership and composure from the non-Welsh players is really significant, the situation hasn't changed, there's even more pressure on players in a Lions shirt than a National one, especially as the Lions haven't won a series since 1997 and if you add in other factors like a mental block against the opposition I can't help but feel we will underperform

offload wrote:The Aussie press hasn't got going yet - it is likely to be brutal. There again perhaps it needs to be. The Lions have only lost one series in Australia and that was to arguably the best Aussie team ever, and it was mighty close.

So...they won't admit it but the Aussies are worried that the Lions will return to business as usual and win. If the so called "overrated" Wales can run them very very close in three tests what will the combined strength of the home nations achieve. Yes - the Aussies are nervous, we have a very strong squad with some exceptional young talent and a few old heads. We should be optimistic of a 3-nil series.

Wales certainly did run Australia close and pretty much could have won the series 3-0, but look at the bigger picture..... most of the Welsh Lions boarding the plane lost to a decimated Australian squad 21 players injured or unavailable and regarded as possibly the worst Oz side in living history and not once but three times on the bounce. Now the bulk of the Lions are this year going to face the same SH nation but this time they will be a much different proposition.

Nice one Gatland........... Shaun Edwards must be quietly relieved to be at home drinking his Horlicks and smiling to himself

Teams for the 20-19 Aus win. I wouldn't call that the worst Aussie side in living memory. And I didn't cherry pick that, it was the first hot in google.

Australia: Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels); Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW), Rob Horne (NSW), Pat McCabe (ACT), Digby Ioane (Queensland); Berrick Barnes (NSW), Will Genia (Queensland); Benn Robinson (NSW), Tatafu Polota-Nau (NSW), Sekope Kepu (NSW), Sitaleki Timani (NSW), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Scott Higginbotham (Queensland), David Pocock (Western Force, capt), Wycliff Palu (NSW).

flyhalffactory wrote:

offload wrote:The Aussie press hasn't got going yet - it is likely to be brutal. There again perhaps it needs to be. The Lions have only lost one series in Australia and that was to arguably the best Aussie team ever, and it was mighty close.

So...they won't admit it but the Aussies are worried that the Lions will return to business as usual and win. If the so called "overrated" Wales can run them very very close in three tests what will the combined strength of the home nations achieve. Yes - the Aussies are nervous, we have a very strong squad with some exceptional young talent and a few old heads. We should be optimistic of a 3-nil series.

Wales certainly did run Australia close and pretty much could have won the series 3-0, but look at the bigger picture..... most of the Welsh Lions boarding the plane lost to a decimated Australian squad 21 players injured or unavailable and regarded as possibly the worst Oz side in living history and not once but three times on the bounce. Now the bulk of the Lions are this year going to face the same SH nation but this time they will be a much different proposition.

Nice one Gatland........... Shaun Edwards must be quietly relieved to be at home drinking his Horlicks and smiling to himself

Ye because Wales didn't have any injuries, and this decimated Aus squad, how come they managed to rest 11 players v Scotland the weak before? Can they live without 32 first team players? Oh wait they didn't have 21 first team injuries, they had double firgure first team players playing!!

Never let the facts get in the way of your view fly

Griff wrote:Teams for the 20-19 Aus win. I wouldn't call that the worst Aussie side in living memory. And I didn't cherry pick that, it was the first hot in google.

Australia: Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels); Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW), Rob Horne (NSW), Pat McCabe (ACT), Digby Ioane (Queensland); Berrick Barnes (NSW), Will Genia (Queensland); Benn Robinson (NSW), Tatafu Polota-Nau (NSW), Sekope Kepu (NSW), Sitaleki Timani (NSW), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Scott Higginbotham (Queensland), David Pocock (Western Force, capt), Wycliff Palu (NSW).

It's still (IMO, which others may disagree with) 5 players off their best side of players established at the time plus another positional change, but yes this does demonstrate that the whole "21 missing Wallabies" stat is highly misleading

Should have posted their bench too. Not sure from the BBC site who came on and when for Oz:

Australia: Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels); Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW), Rob Horne (NSW), Pat McCabe (ACT), Digby Ioane (Queensland); Berrick Barnes (NSW), Will Genia (Queensland); Benn Robinson (NSW), Tatafu Polota-Nau (NSW), Sekope Kepu (NSW), Sitaleki Timani (NSW), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Scott Higginbotham (Queensland), David Pocock (Western Force, capt), Wycliff Palu (NSW).

Replacements: Stephen Moore (ACT), Ben Alexander (ACT), Rob Simmons (Queensland), Dave Dennis (NSW), Michael Hooper (ACT), N White (ACT), A Fainga'a (Queensland).

Are people calling for the Welsh players not to have been selected or am I missing their point?Is jealousy rearing it's head?Clearly the last two 6n's have been a travesty and we won all those games by default.Gatland and co were numpties for being swayed by these worthless results.Pretty sad reaction from bitter people who have no grasp of the lions ethos.

I am talking about your summer tour, not before. If we are going to talk about a nation v nation comparison of how we are geared up to be competitive against SH sides and you are geared up to be competitive in a NH Feb/Mar tournament then I am happy to offer why Scotland perhaps should have more than the 5 we think should be going.

The facts are Deans selected 39 players but coming closer to the tests so many key players and in-form players were injured that of the 39 selected, 17 that's SEVENTEEN had 3 or less caps. James O'Connor, the then Aussie "go to player" FB Kurtley Beale and usual captain James Horwill were all be out of the tour due to injury and Pocock carried a shoulder and thigh injury going into series and still outplayed Warburton in each of the match. Slightly different to the previous years when Rennie and Barclay mullered him.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Are people calling for the Welsh players not to have been selected or am I missing their point?Is jealousy rearing it's head?Clearly the last two 6n's have been a travesty and we won all those games by default.Gatland and co were numpties for being swayed by these worthless results.Pretty sad reaction from bitter people who have no grasp of the lions ethos.

Taff grow up will you................ this is not about Wales or the Welsh players, this is not even about a fair national representation. This is about players who have been the form players before, during and more importantly after the 6Ns and that includes some players from Wales Ryan Jones, Ken Owens etc. Its also about a mindset that is either about playing NH sides well or playing well against SH setups.

Gatland selecting just two 10s and then him and Howley stating that they have never seen Hogg play 10 and rarely 13 but they think he (Hogg) could be the new Hook and become the Lions "utility" jobby ans could maybe do a job there ....... I mean I would have rather not selected Kearney and pulled in Biggar if Gatland wasn't actually going to select two 10s and a proper utility.

So Mr Gatland how is this going to pan out...... Farrell is the dirt-tracker mid-week option with Sexton on the bench and then both reverse a few days later for the tests

Like it Mr G

Taffineastbourne wrote:Are people calling for the Welsh players not to have been selected or am I missing their point?Is jealousy rearing it's head?Clearly the last two 6n's have been a travesty and we won all those games by default.Gatland and co were numpties for being swayed by these worthless results.Pretty sad reaction from bitter people who have no grasp of the lions ethos.

Another very unpleasant bitter post. Why can no one ever make anything that could possibly be the slightest criticism of Wales without thjis reaction. Its childish and unpleasant and make the Welsh fans look smallminded as well as spoiling these boards

thebluesmancometh wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

offload wrote:The Aussie press hasn't got going yet - it is likely to be brutal. There again perhaps it needs to be. The Lions have only lost one series in Australia and that was to arguably the best Aussie team ever, and it was mighty close.

So...they won't admit it but the Aussies are worried that the Lions will return to business as usual and win. If the so called "overrated" Wales can run them very very close in three tests what will the combined strength of the home nations achieve. Yes - the Aussies are nervous, we have a very strong squad with some exceptional young talent and a few old heads. We should be optimistic of a 3-nil series.

Wales certainly did run Australia close and pretty much could have won the series 3-0, but look at the bigger picture..... most of the Welsh Lions boarding the plane lost to a decimated Australian squad 21 players injured or unavailable and regarded as possibly the worst Oz side in living history and not once but three times on the bounce. Now the bulk of the Lions are this year going to face the same SH nation but this time they will be a much different proposition.

Nice one Gatland........... Shaun Edwards must be quietly relieved to be at home drinking his Horlicks and smiling to himself

Ye because Wales didn't have any injuries, and this decimated Aus squad, how come they managed to rest 11 players v Scotland the weak before? Can they live without 32 first team players? Oh wait they didn't have 21 first team injuries, they had double firgure first team players playing!!

Never let the facts get in the way of your view fly

Not this nonsese again. 11 players were not rested for Scotland - two different teams were picked from the squad

Another bitter nasty and childish welsh fan spoiling the boards.

Fly,I think that you raised Wales record against Australia with some 21 Aussies being unavailable which is frankly laughable.Your point eluded me and still does.
Are we all in total agreement with all of the selections that Gats has made?No.Is anybody totally in agreement with the selections?I haven't seen anybody.
Gatland has a limited time to formulate an effective team.Other than build this around the most successful team in the 6n's in recent years I fail to see what alternative that he had.We can argue about the cushions but there was only going to be one sofa.

[quote="TJ"]

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Another bitter nasty and childish welsh fan spoiling the boards.

Pretty unnecessary don't you think?

Griff wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Too be honest i cannot wait for the first test to be over with. I just have a feeling that the Lions are going too get "creamed" by the Aussies.

Having looked at the team (Lions) team that is it Looks a bit under power. If that is the right word?

I just feel that the Likes of BOWE, POC, LYDATE. should not even be in the squad due to lack of game time. and their fore their performances may not be up too standard.

Is Mat Stevens really that good?

Will Australia be "quaking " in their boots? I doubt it. I just think that Australia will have a load of respect for the Lions. But not that much respect.

Firstly, are you drunk? You're writing like you've nailed 20 cans of Stella. Secondly, how have you seen the Lions team??? They haven't even played a warm up game yet!

Answer too you first question is "NO" i am not drunk. Beside after 20 cans of stella i would be able write anything at all. Secondly when i said i have seen the Lions Team??? i meant the squad that was read out.

Regards the rest i stand by what i said

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Griff wrote:

fa0019 wrote:In some ways I think he has a point.... Wales are a better side at the moment then England... but I always feel England are better equipped to play and compete with AUS... and results tend to support this. England & Ireland are sides which can cause AUS problems, AUS always looks comfortable and in control with Wales.

I don't want to post because people with shout 'moral victories', but I can't help myself! If memory serves 3 of the last 5 encounters with Aus, Wales were leading in the last few minutes and then either gave away penalties or a length of the field try. Not sure I'd call that comfortable and in control by Aus.

All people care about on here, is stats. Nobody cares about the finer details like you mention. Isn't it far easier to spout off the same rubbish like Wales' bosh tactics don't work, or 8 on the spin?

Losing 1 match in such a way is unlucky, twice is coincidental but when you see that no matter how close Wales could have been to winning they still haven't done so against a Tri-Nations opponent since the Aus game 2008, that implies it isn't just luck or happenstance

It's a good point but at least some of it could be put down to a lack of bottle from Wales in the closing minutes and an inability to close out tight games against SH opposition. Like in the second summer test when Wales were in a commanding position and made a meal of possession at the death. Same with the autumn test. There's nothing to say Aus anticipated every bit of it, expected to find themselves trailing and knew exactly how to respond. Not trying to make Wales out to be bigger than we really are but I've seen more than one recent defeat to SH opposition which was more down to Welsh errors than opposition superiority.

But then if the majority of players starting for the Lions and the captain who leads them are the same as those who made these match-losing errors, playing under the same manager in the same style with the same lack of bottle and composure, why should I feel confident of a Lions victory? It just makes me feel we are more likely to lose from a winning position, just like T2 2009. Unless the leadership and composure from the non-Welsh players is really significant, the situation hasn't changed, there's even more pressure on players in a Lions shirt than a National one, especially as the Lions haven't won a series since 1997 and if you add in other factors like a mental block against the opposition I can't help but feel we will underperform

If all the circumstances you outline at the start were applicable (and some of them are) then you may well be right. But there are several factors that might be different. For one thing the statistic of Wales supplying the largest collection of players to the squad doesn't necessarily entail that the majority of starters will be Welsh. Statistically Wales are now more probable than the others to contribute the majority of starters but even if they did, would that be enough to set the tone to a Welsh game plan and approach? There are non-Welsh players in that squad who are experienced or consistent enough to play to their own strengths and who would add something to almost any side. I'm gutted for players like Robshaw and Best who imo would definitely have added something in their respective positions and whose omission was something of a slap in the face given their form. But I'm confident in the abilities of POC and BOD who will add composure to the forwards and backs respectively if picked. I'm confident in players like Gray, Tuilagi and SOB who I find are consistently quite good for their countries. I wouldn't try to change these guys' strengths and I doubt the coaching staff will be foolish enough to try either.

I've seen some perfectly coherent suggestions for starting XVs which only featured 3 or 4 Welsh starters. Realistically even if it was as high as 7 or 8 I don't see how that establishes that the rest of the team will automatically take on the Welsh mindframe of recent years. And playing at a different stage with different teammates might effectively settle any Welsh nerves (if there are any present).

Gatland is a coach who knows how to work with the strengths of what he's got in Wales but when he's got other options who can vary their approach and who offer something he doesn't usually have at his disposal I don't think he'll look to impose a strict model of the Welsh strategy on the Lions or at least I seriously hope he won't.

TJ wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

offload wrote:The Aussie press hasn't got going yet - it is likely to be brutal. There again perhaps it needs to be. The Lions have only lost one series in Australia and that was to arguably the best Aussie team ever, and it was mighty close.

So...they won't admit it but the Aussies are worried that the Lions will return to business as usual and win. If the so called "overrated" Wales can run them very very close in three tests what will the combined strength of the home nations achieve. Yes - the Aussies are nervous, we have a very strong squad with some exceptional young talent and a few old heads. We should be optimistic of a 3-nil series.

Wales certainly did run Australia close and pretty much could have won the series 3-0, but look at the bigger picture..... most of the Welsh Lions boarding the plane lost to a decimated Australian squad 21 players injured or unavailable and regarded as possibly the worst Oz side in living history and not once but three times on the bounce. Now the bulk of the Lions are this year going to face the same SH nation but this time they will be a much different proposition.

Nice one Gatland........... Shaun Edwards must be quietly relieved to be at home drinking his Horlicks and smiling to himself

Ye because Wales didn't have any injuries, and this decimated Aus squad, how come they managed to rest 11 players v Scotland the weak before? Can they live without 32 first team players? Oh wait they didn't have 21 first team injuries, they had double firgure first team players playing!!

Never let the facts get in the way of your view fly

Not this nonsese again. 11 players were not rested for Scotland - two different teams were picked from the squad

Another bitter nasty and childish welsh fan spoiling the boards.

Thats a bit harsh, purely because I nullified a 21 injury argument by using a fact that Deans admitted to himself, that he wanted certain players rested for Wales, no credit taken away from the Scots, they did well against that team in poor conditions, and the tactics of player selection and and positioning were spot on.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Fly,I think that you raised Wales record against Australia with some 21 Aussies being unavailable which is frankly laughable.Your point eluded me and still does.
Are we all in total agreement with all of the selections that Gats has made?No.Is anybody totally in agreement with the selections?I haven't seen anybody.
Gatland has a limited time to formulate an effective team.Other than build this around the most successful team in the 6n's in recent years I fail to see what alternative that he had.We can argue about the cushions but there was only going to be one sofa.

Ok I'll say it again last year Dean selected 39 players of which 17 had 3 caps or less, 4 key players including the then captain Horwill, the then "go to player" Beale, and the then golden boy O'Connor, the injuries to key players were such that the ARU asked Pocock to play even though he was carrying shoulder and thigh injuries. It was stated that with Beale and Pocock playing in the third test Oz were still missing 19 players who would have been in the 37-39 man squad on normal days. Hence the 21 stat.

My point is that many welsh posters have stated that they on another day could have won the summer series (and I have to agree they could have) and hence with a bit of tinkering BOD HEASLIP HEALY BOWE etc then we will win the summer series, but when you look at the bigger picture Wales lost not just an unlucky once but three games on the bounce against which has been regarded as one of the worst Aussie squads. Most of the 15 welsh lions played and lost 3-0 last year great 6Ns pedigree yet totally different 4-5 months later against SH opposition......and hence the rationale doesn't stack up.

Do you get the point now Taff

[quote="Risca Rev"]

TJ wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Another bitter nasty and childish welsh fan spoiling the boards.

Pretty unnecessary don't you think?

His post or mine? the continual bitter and nasty postings like his spoils these boards and IMO needs to be challenged. Why it is deemed necessary to behave like this by a section of the welsh support I do not know but there are multiple examples