Scotland summer tour squad

Scotland squad for quadrangular tournament with South Africa, Samoa and Italy next month:

Backs: Alex Dunbar* (Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Peter Horne*, Ruaridh Jackson (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Lamont, Peter Murchie*, Henry Pyrgos (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour* (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor* (Saracens), Greig Tonks* and Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby)

Forwards: John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens) CAPTAIN, Geoff Cross, David Denton (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ross Ford, Grant Gilchrist (both Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby), Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), Steven Lawrie* (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur* (both Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Tim Swinson* and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors).
* = uncapped

Seems a pretty decent squad

Good to see Lawrie rewarded for his form. Him and Macarthur should be battling for the hooker spot in years to come.

Strange that Tom Ryder hasnt been included, and Jon Welsh needs to stop being moved about and secure the shirt in one position. At the moment hes covering both sides of the scrum without getting an extended run in either. With the days of 23 man squads, propping both sides isnt as valuable as it used to be.

Surprised not to see bob Harley there. Would rather have him than strokosch but apart from that I don't see any glaring omissions. I would of maybe had Sean Kennedy there as well because he seems like a good player

Agreed, Alex Grove continues to be ignored but that was expected really, and Dunbar and Horne fully deserve to be there in his position. I assume Rennie and Fusaro are both still injured which is disappointing. And I hope we don't end up regretting the lack of a third scrum half.

Generally though I'm very happy with the squad.

Also John Pennycuick is an excellent selection as baggage man, rumour has it he can carry two suitcases in each hand!

By position:

Prop – Cross, Dickinson, Grant, Low, Murray
Hooker – Ford, Lawrie, McArthur
2nd row – Gilchrist, Hamilton, Kellock, Swinson
Backrow – Barclay, Beattie, Brown, Denton, Stokosh, Wilson
Scrum half – Laidlaw, Pyrgos
Stand off – Heathcaot, Jackson
Centre – Dunbar, Horne, Scott, Taylor
Wing – Lamont, Symour, Visser
Fullback – Tonks, Murchie

Some big calls there – no Hall, Lawson, Harley and only 2 scrum halfs.

My concern is that a lot of those players have been recently injured and are lacking gametime. On the plus side Barclay’s form will hopefully see KB reverted back to 6, and the killer B’s reunited!

Thanks Pat - definitely deserves a new thread.

1. Is the Messiah on under 20 duty? Nice to see Taylor there though. Presumably he is seen as an individual to invest in rather than Grove.

2. Would rather have had Harley than Strokosch.

3. My god, is Fozzy really not still fit?

4. Please can we stop messing around with Gilchrist and give Swinson his first cap?

Messiah is with the under 20s.

Other concern is the lightweight 2nd row, especially if Hamilton is fannying about with the Ba Bas the week before our first game!

Nice squad, don't mind if there are big calls, as long as if they prove to be a mistake we learn from the mistake and move on. One or two guys could conceivably be called up as injury cover for the WITS so the squad could change.

Would be interested to know if Scotland's new mystery coach has had any input as to player selection or strategy but seeing as the SRU won't tell us who it is yet I doubt they will reveal that.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Good to see Lawrie rewarded for his form. Him and Macarthur should be battling for the hooker spot in years to come.

Lawrie is older than Ford

Pretty happy overall with the squad that has been selected.
Surprised that Harley isn't in the squad. Think he should be in not ahead of Strokosh but ahead of Denton. Denton is not in form and needs a major look at himself attitude wise. Looking at the make up of the back row there are 3 No8s. Denton will probably be there to cover 6 too with Brown covering 7 also.
Harley is playing well and plays 6 or 7. Apart from that the squad looks strong and just about right, would still have like to have seen Alex Grove as he is a very good and very underrated player but that would be about the only change.
They are going to have to play very well on this tour as the samoan squad that has been announced is very strong!

Looks like a good group of forwards there, should be a tough nut, and I am looking forward to see Tim Visser running on these concrete pitches of ours on the highveldt, you cannot wish for faster pitches.

This is early winter, there after it goes white, then it goes hard, and you get grass burns all over.

It's quite an interesting squad really.

Duncan Taylor is a big call, given that he has barely played a professional rugby match this season. I've only seen him play once for the U20s, and he looked solid, but it's quite a serious promotion for him to be here. Hopefully it's based on ability rather than just "finger in the wind" potential. Query whether Dougie Fife wouldn't be a more deserving bolter.

Alex Grove is as always a ludicrous omission.

I'm also surprised that Harley isn't included. I agree with Majestic - Denton is lucky to be going, particularly with Wilson and Beattie quite rightly on the plane.

Also agree that Kennedy could have gone as 3rd scrum half, for cover if for nothing else.

Otherwise pretty pleased.

Thinking about it more it is really strange not to take Kennedy - Laidlaw has a fair chance of being called up to the Lions so why leave Kennedy out of all the pre-tour training squads to learn the ropes?

Agree - perhaps he's learning from Gatland. I also think that Kennedy is a better player than Pyrgos anyway.

No one has mentioned the lack of Nick De-Uselss and the squashed goblin yet!

When I said I was pretty pleased with the squad, it was really those two I had in mind.

NDL, like a lot of Edinburgh players, needs the summer off to sort himself out, and then come back and make an impact next season. Although I expected him to lose out to Alex Grove rather than the completely untested and unproven Duncan Taylor.

Max Evans I'm surprised about purely because Scott Johnson seemed to rate him in the 6 Nations, but I don't think he'd add much to the squad, and I'm pleased that Tommy Seymour is in ahead of him.

I'm guessing it's 5 props and 6 loose forwards as destiny surely decrees that Grant and Brown will be called up to add a bit of quality to that omnishambles of a Lions squad ().

The more I am looking at this summer quadrangular tournament, and the talk from the SA and Samoan camps of their serious commitment to it the more I am pleased that Grant and Brown are not on the Lions tour. This is going to be a massive yardstick against the 2nd ranked team, and the brute presence of Samoans, and with the rapidly improving Italians looking to use it as their own stake in the sand..... this will probably provide a much bigger task than Australia will In the long-term view as a nation Scotland will get more out of it than 5-8 of our key players representing the Lions. Working with a new forwards coach in what seems to be a bl00dy competitive summer tour attempting to impress the incoming new head coach can only augur well for the future.

Disappointed that Rennie and Grove are not going, but some exciting combos to look at. If we were playing an extra Italy in the rounds I would have liked to see Swinson/Gilchrist starting and hopefully seeing the Killers at 6,7,8.

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's quite an interesting squad really.

Duncan Taylor is a big call, given that he has barely played a professional rugby match this season. I've only seen him play once for the U20s, and he looked solid, but it's quite a serious promotion for him to be here. Hopefully it's based on ability rather than just "finger in the wind" potential. Query whether Dougie Fife wouldn't be a more deserving bolter.

Alex Grove is as always a ludicrous omission.

I'm also surprised that Harley isn't included. I agree with Majestic - Denton is lucky to be going, particularly with Wilson and Beattie quite rightly on the plane.

Also agree that Kennedy could have gone as 3rd scrum half, for cover if for nothing else.

Otherwise pretty pleased.

He's made 5 starts and 8 substitute appearances this season in the league, 2 substitute appearances in the Heineken cup - so not quite first choice but the Saracens side is far harder to get into than the Edinburgh one! Haven't seen him play myself except in Scotland A's win over the Saxons, which was a pretty good result all round. I presume Scott Johnson has been watching him and been impressed, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt!

Yeah, you might be getting him confused with someone else, hes not played for the u20's, it was the A team, in which he was impressive. Highly rated by the saracens fans aswell, and with Ashton, Strettle, Wyles, and Barritt there, its actually quite good to get 13 appearances.

cp10 wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:Good to see Lawrie rewarded for his form. Him and Macarthur should be battling for the hooker spot in years to come.

Lawrie is older than Ford

my mistake, still in his prime for a hooker though, so could geta good few years out of him.

Has Swinson been showing good form? Does he deserve his call up? Most Falcon fans were sorry to see him go..

Swinson has been playing well for the Weedge but my concern is that he is just too small for an International Lock - especially up against the Saffers and Samoans.

flyhalffactory wrote:The more I am looking at this summer quadrangular tournament, and the talk from the SA and Samoan camps of their serious commitment to it the more I am pleased that Grant and Brown are not on the Lions tour. This is going to be a massive yardstick against the 2nd ranked team, and the brute presence of Samoans, and with the rapidly improving Italians looking to use it as their own stake in the sand..... this will probably provide a much bigger task than Australia will In the long-term view as a nation Scotland will get more out of it than 5-8 of our key players representing the Lions. Working with a new forwards coach in what seems to be a bl00dy competitive summer tour attempting to impress the incoming new head coach can only augur well for the future.

Disappointed that Rennie and Grove are not going, but some exciting combos to look at. If we were playing an extra Italy in the rounds I would have liked to see Swinson/Gilchrist starting and hopefully seeing the Killers at 6,7,8.

I agree it is gonna be great, and I would hope it will be open flowing rugby, to a point of course, SA, Scotland and Italy aren't the most fluid teams, but we can hope can't we?

Oi twitter twits, any of you follow the lions official account?

I saw Tom Hamilton on the scrum.com front page retweeted an apology by them for offensive tweets, but theyve deleted the tweets and now the apology. Just wondering what its all about.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Oi twitter twits, any of you follow the lions official account?

I saw Tom Hamilton on the scrum.com front page retweeted an apology by them for offensive tweets, but theyve deleted the tweets and now the apology. Just wondering what its all about.

Only thing I can guess is that on the morning of the squad announcement they said something like:

“how will the players be feeling this morning? Nervous? Excited?......Suicidal??”

Pretty bad taste and the person doing the tweeting no doubt would have got a bollocking for that one!

@RDW

I wouldn’t be too concerned about Swinson’s size. Yes, he’s not particularly tall, but he is still a very effective physical presence. Only an inch or so shorter than Paul O’Connell, for example. Glasgow have delivered some fearsome beatings in the tight this season when he’s been on the pitch. Good close-quarters defender and hard-yards carrier.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:Oi twitter twits, any of you follow the lions official account?

I saw Tom Hamilton on the scrum.com front page retweeted an apology by them for offensive tweets, but theyve deleted the tweets and now the apology. Just wondering what its all about.

Only thing I can guess is that on the morning of the squad announcement they said something like:

“how will the players be feeling this morning? Nervous? Excited?......Suicidal??”

Pretty bad taste and the person doing the tweeting no doubt would have got a bollocking for that one!

nvm, turns out its a picture of a springboks testicles impaled on a fence with a warning to australia about the 3rd test in 2009.

I have a link if you want it.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:Oi twitter twits, any of you follow the lions official account?

I saw Tom Hamilton on the scrum.com front page retweeted an apology by them for offensive tweets, but theyve deleted the tweets and now the apology. Just wondering what its all about.

Only thing I can guess is that on the morning of the squad announcement they said something like:

“how will the players be feeling this morning? Nervous? Excited?......Suicidal??”

Pretty bad taste and the person doing the tweeting no doubt would have got a bollocking for that one!

nvm, turns out its a picture of a springboks testicles impaled on a fence with a warning to australia about the 3rd test in 2009.

I have a link if you want it.

That was my second guess. My first guess was that someone made fun of cheese on toast being a national dish.

Captain_Sensible wrote:@RDW

I wouldn’t be too concerned about Swinson’s size. Yes, he’s not particularly tall, but he is still a very effective physical presence. Only an inch or so shorter than Paul O’Connell, for example. Glasgow have delivered some fearsome beatings in the tight this season when he’s been on the pitch. Good close-quarters defender and hard-yards carrier.

I think
Swinson at 6' 6" and 18st 7lb that's kinda ok as our own Gilchrist is 6' 8" and 18st 10lb, so I would say height to weight ratio Swinson is a tad chunkier. Of course when comparing to Big Jim who is 6' 8" and 18st 12lb or Ali K at 6' 8" and 18st 9lb then he is 2in smaller and 3-4 lbs lighter. What Swinson though brings is a good running game.

His official Glasgow bio says 6ft 4 which seems much more likely when you see him standing next to people.

He's 6ft 5 on Wikipedia.

Which one would you trust??

What has Bob Harley done wrong and what has Denton done right ?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Which one would you trust??

Well I wouldn't trust me as I get it wrong on most occasions!!

Pat_Mustard wrote:

He's made 5 starts and 8 substitute appearances this season in the league, 2 substitute appearances in the Heineken cup - so not quite first choice but the Saracens side is far harder to get into than the Edinburgh one! Haven't seen him play myself except in Scotland A's win over the Saxons, which was a pretty good result all round. I presume Scott Johnson has been watching him and been impressed, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt!

I clearly wish him well, it would be fantastic were he to turn out to be a great player, but those stats emphasise my point, he's barely had any rugby this season! 5 starts is nothing!

IBD - I meant the A side, not the u20s. He was ok in that game, nothing particularly special.

I know he's highly rated, but there's no question this is going to be a huge leap for him. It's a big call. Alex Grove is a more deserving candidate to tour, no question.

I wish all players well when selected for Scotland, but that doesn't mean I have to agree wholeheartedly with their selection, without question. He looks a strong athlete, powerful runner and decent pace, so it's perhaps that physicality Johnson wants against SA and Samoa. I'd still have gone with Grove ahead of him though, or perhaps as well. It's not the biggest touring party in the world.

On Swinson I had no doubt that he's ready to start for Scotland. For my money he's a better player than Kellock, particularly his workrate and technique at the breakdown. I'd say he's more physical as well, despite being smaller.

Hamilton sometimes punches his weight, but his lack of mobility is his weakness. Kellock never punches his weight. His strength is his lineout work.

From the squad selected, my XV would be:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hamilton 5.Swinson 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Beattie 9.Laidlaw 10.Heathcote 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Dunbar 14.Seymour 15.Tonks

16.Low 17.MacArthur 18.Dickinson 19.Kellock 20.Wilson 21.Pyrgos 22.Jackson 23.S Lamont

Glad to see Heathcote getting called up, I was a little concerned that the Tonga game/AR leaving would have ballsed up his international chances.

His form has been very mixed this year too so from a Bath point of view I hope he gets some decent game time and some confidence for next season too.

No, don't worry Bathman - most Scotland fans see Heathcote as potential long term runner at 10, particularly given that Weir now has a broken leg and Jackson cannot kick for nuts. There are other young Scottish 10s like Finn Russell and Tommy Allen but they are some years away and certainly aren't the incumbent 10 for a Jeff or Rabo club in the way that Tom is.

Unless Jackson can seriously make a mark on the next one/two Glasgow games, I think Heathcote will start in the summer. It's the right time to give him a proper chance, and playing between Laidlaw and Scott will help him settle.

Has Alex Grove pumped the daughter of a SRU heid yin or something?

The poor lad is constantly overlooked!!!

I agree that Groves ommision for the past 3 and a half years has been baffling, but he is a 13 and only a 13. Taylor adds bench cover for everything past stand off, so could be invaluable on what is likely to be a long and gruelling tour.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Unless Jackson can seriously make a mark on the next one/two Glasgow games, I think Heathcote will start in the summer. It's the right time to give him a proper chance, and playing between Laidlaw and Scott will help him settle.

If Jackson has a stinker in his last game for Glasgow then he's got to start for Scotland - his current form is MOTM, pish, MOTM, awful, MOTM, woeful - so hopefully we catch him on a MOTM week!

George Carlin wrote:No, don't worry Bathman - most Scotland fans see Heathcote as potential long term runner at 10, particularly given that Weir now has a broken leg and Jackson cannot kick for nuts. There are other young Scottish 10s like Finn Russell and Tommy Allen but they are some years away and certainly aren't the incumbent 10 for a Jeff or Rabo club in the way that Tom is.

Glad to hear it (or less so if it means Edinburgh want to nab him!), as I said, he has been a bit up and down this season, kicking from the tee has been good, I'd guess c.85% off the top of my head. But he doesnt yet have the ability to really grab a game by the scruf of the neck and dominate it yet, when Bath have played well and racked up the BP wins, he has generally looked very assured, but in the tougher closer games/ when we are down he has struggled to impose himself a bit.
Our last game vs Sarries being a case in point.

But that should come with time, not many young players look good all the time, especially when under pressure.

Bathman – what will happen to Heathcoat with George Ford coming?

Ok having scouted some stories I'll opt to post in here regarding what I have digested over the last few days.

Coach, I'll quite happily take Smith or McKenzie.

Team for the summer tour... looking good. My 1st choice team from that lot :

1. Grant
2. McArthur
3. Cross
4. Swinson
5. Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Horne
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Seymore
15. Tonks

Finally, I feel a bit of an idiot for criticizing Gatland taking Hogg on the Lions tour as a back up 10, he looked good for Glasgow against Connacht.

I wouldn't feel silly for that Radge.

One thing to pop over a couple of kicks at the Sportsground when your team is essentially coasting home, quite another to have Gill and Hooper charging down your throat whilst 80,000 Aussies at Suncorp are bellowing that you're eighteen kinds of Pommy w@nker.

Imperialbigdave wrote:I agree that Groves ommision for the past 3 and a half years has been baffling, but he is a 13 and only a 13. Taylor adds bench cover for everything past stand off, so could be invaluable on what is likely to be a long and gruelling tour.

Well he's only started 5 games this season, so how can you possibly know that he can cover (at international rugby standard) 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15??

There are quite a few versatile backs in the squad, so I don't think versatility justifies his selection.

Let's face it, Scott Johnson has ignored form and experience and just taken a punt on a kid who has barely played pro rugby. Let's call a spade a spade, and not pretend that there's more logic to this or any particularly profound justification. I sincerely wish the boy all the very best, and hope that he can make a seamless transition to international rugby. He's a big lad and has the raw materials to be a decent player, let's hope being thrown in at the deep end proves to be the right decision. I'd have been happier had his inclusion not come at the expense of a more deserving and thus far better player.