Scotland Squad for Summer Tour

funnyExiledScot wrote:ASBO - pretty much on the same page.

I'm coming round to your thinking on Euan Murray, happy to leave him out provided Murray Low can play well for Glasgow between now and the end of the season.

I'd keep Scott Lawson ahead of Fergus Thompson, only really because of Ford's new found throwing jitters (we can't afford to miss lineouts like that so I'd want Lawson on the bench).

Locks, back row and half backs fine.

I'd take a slightly different bunch of centres: Scott, Grove, Ansbro and NDL (using Leonard as cover at 12 if needed).

I'd add Jim Thompson to make up my 35.


The real key for me is getting Weir and Scott to play as much together as possible.

The matchday 22:

1.Welsh 2.Ford (c) 3.Cross 4.Hamilton 5.Gray 6.Brown 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Blair 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Ansbro 14.Jones 15.Hogg

16.Shiells 17.S Lawson 18.Gilchrist 19.Harley 20.Laidlaw 21.S Lamont 22.J Thompson

That is actually a pretty balanced side. Good blend of bulk, workrate, ball carriers, distributors and strike runners.

Majestic83 wrote:I would have added Mark Bennett to my list for the centre spot but i doubt as if he will go on tour with the senior squad this summer, think he will be at the u20's world cup along with leonard.
Fraser MacKenzie is injured still I think after doing his shoulder and doubt he'll be back for the end of the season.

Majestic83 wrote:If Alex Dunbar keeps performing like he has the last few games I'd take a punt on him. Looks useful, runs good lines, good hands, quick and solid in defence.

Looking at the squads a few of us have selected I think there are a couple positions showing a lack in depth. Firstly at hooker after Ross Ford there are no stand out players. They are all pretty average which is a bit worrying if Ford got injured or continues to miss his throws. I don't know why Sean Crombie hasn't been given a go again at one of the pro teams. Week in week out he performs very well for Boroughmuir, throws accurate at the lineout, carries alot of ball, one of the top try scorers in the league and is a leader. He maybe wasn't ready when he was first at Edinburgh but having watched him play a few times he seems to have the goods now.

The other position that is showing a bit of a lack in depth is full back, with Rory Lamont being injured apart from Stuart Hogg there isn't really much there. Tom Brown looks really good but hasn't been getting many games at Edinburgh.

funnyExiledScot wrote:ASBO - pretty much on the same page.

I'm coming round to your thinking on Euan Murray, happy to leave him out provided Murray Low can play well for Glasgow between now and the end of the season.

I'd keep Scott Lawson ahead of Fergus Thompson, only really because of Ford's new found throwing jitters (we can't afford to miss lineouts like that so I'd want Lawson on the bench).

Locks, back row and half backs fine.

I'd take a slightly different bunch of centres: Scott, Grove, Ansbro and NDL (using Leonard as cover at 12 if needed).

I'd add Jim Thompson to make up my 35.


The real key for me is getting Weir and Scott to play as much together as possible.

The matchday 22:

1.Welsh 2.Ford (c) 3.Cross 4.Hamilton 5.Gray 6.Brown 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Blair 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Ansbro 14.Jones 15.Hogg

16.Shiells 17.S Lawson 18.Gilchrist 19.Harley 20.Laidlaw 21.S Lamont 22.J Thompson

That is actually a pretty balanced side. Good blend of bulk, workrate, ball carriers, distributors and strike runners.

Time to play the generation game?
Neil Drysdale
Sports Journalist.

The lamentations have lasted long enough for Scotland over their demoralising RBS 6 Nations Championship losses.

Henceforth, the SRU should be looking to youth, appreciating that there is no value in sticking with certain players, exhorting their elite performers to do their talking on the field, rather than in ghosted newspaper columns, and ensuring that the coach – whether it is Andy Robinson or somebody else – selects the best side at his disposal. That may sound obvious, but, according to Roy Laidlaw, the wooden-spoon failure happened because some of these principles were ignored.


"It is not all doom and gloom, but I was worried about the vibes before the Six Nations," says the doughty little Borders scrum-half, who won the grand slam in 1984, then missed three matches of the following season's whitewash. "In the past, the coaches would tell us we were rubbish, and we would go out determined to prove them wrong. Whereas, prior to the England match this February, it was all about how Scotland were going to win, and have a successful championship, and there was a lot of really unjustified confidence. It also didn't help that our best side wasn't on the pitch, so we have to learn from these mistakes. But sometimes in sport, fortunes change quickly and I definitely think there are youngsters who can make a difference."

Laidlaw doesn't believe in Hollywood-style revivals, but his own experiences testify to the value of planning long term and investing in youth. After all, the woes of '85 were replaced with three victories and a record thrashing of England 12 months later. In which light, there is no reason why the tristesse suffered in the Eternal City should turn into an endless decline.

Stuart Hogg has demonstrated that he has the ability to unlock defences and, at just 19, has the next decade to stamp his imprint all over the game. As of June, Edinburgh's prolific winger, Tim Visser, will be eligible for Scotland and the SRU should be looking to fast-track Mark Bennett – another teenager – into the senior ranks, and particularly if he gains inclusion to the Clermont-Auvergne starting XV. There seems to be an aversion in Scotland to blooding youngsters, but Wales have profited from exposing George North to Test rugby at 17 and Bennett, a feisty, ambitious Ayrshireman, is one of the brightest stars in his country's firmament at the moment.

In any rebuilding programme, there will be casualties and we can surely bid 'ciao' to Nick De Luca, while the likes of Graeme Morrison and Allan Jacobsen must be nearing the climax of their illustrious tours of duty; Jim Hamilton and Euan Murray might struggle to add significantly to their present cap tally.

Looking ahead to next year's Six Nations may seem premature, but what about a back line, comprising the likes of Hogg, Visser, Max Evans, Bennett, Lee Jones and a half-back pairing of Duncan Weir and Greig Laidlaw? That group will only have a cumulative aggregate of 160 years (and an average age under 23) between them by the start of the next championship, but they would bring lashings of exuberance, off-the-cuff spontaneity, and brio to their country's cause and when one examines how the Welsh have just won a grand slam with a group of kids, it is overdue for their Scottish counterparts to attempt likewise.

"I can't see what harm it would do to bring in some new faces, if they have the talent and the temperament, because losing becomes a habit and that was one of the most disappointing things about the Italy defeat; the fact that the Italians weren't that good either, but the Scots looked like they lacked enthusiasm and structure," said Laidlaw. "Stuart Hogg has proved that he can unlock the door of quality opposition defences, Visser is a try machine, and I have heard good reports of several of the others. So let's pick them and see whether they have what it takes to make their mark at test level."

The forwards, too, require some tinkering. On paper, they look a formidable bunch, but on grass, one or two players, including Jim Hamilton and John Barclay have not glittered in recent matches and it would be wise to consider an injection of new blood.

Richie Gray, the stand-out for the Scots in the 2012 tournament, should only benefit from moving to Sale Sharks, while the rapid rise of David Denton should inspire the likes of Rob Harley – who is only 21 – to go the extra mile in training.

The front row remains a problem area, with Jacobsen reaching 34 later this year, Euan Murray's form having dipped from the highs of three years ago, allied to his refusal to play on Sundays, and Ross Ford endured a miserable afternoon in Rome and should be spared any further leadership chores in the future, with either Al Kellock or Kelly Brown gaining the captaincy in future campaigns. None of these changes will transform the SRU's finest into world-beaters, but it should elevate them from perennial wooden-spoon status.

Ultimately, though, there are no quick fixes or magic wands. Laidlaw told Herald Sport: "The reality is that it's always hard for Scotland. Ever since the game turned professional, the other leading countries have more teams and more players than us and they are usually bigger and more physical as well. So it will be a constant struggle for us to compete. With that in mind, we have to make the most of what we do have."

He's right, of course. But that won't materialise without better man-management than was evident during the last couple of months. The Class of 2013 can help raise spirits. But first, men such as Weir need to be treated properly by those who employ them.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Nice little article from the Herald, quickly becoming my choice of Rugby opinion rather than the Yes Man crowd at the hootsman.

Time to play the generation game?
Neil Drysdale
Sports Journalist.

The lamentations have lasted long enough for Scotland over their demoralising RBS 6 Nations Championship losses.

Henceforth, the SRU should be looking to youth, appreciating that there is no value in sticking with certain players, exhorting their elite performers to do their talking on the field, rather than in ghosted newspaper columns, and ensuring that the coach – whether it is Andy Robinson or somebody else – selects the best side at his disposal. That may sound obvious, but, according to Roy Laidlaw, the wooden-spoon failure happened because some of these principles were ignored.


"It is not all doom and gloom, but I was worried about the vibes before the Six Nations," says the doughty little Borders scrum-half, who won the grand slam in 1984, then missed three matches of the following season's whitewash. "In the past, the coaches would tell us we were rubbish, and we would go out determined to prove them wrong. Whereas, prior to the England match this February, it was all about how Scotland were going to win, and have a successful championship, and there was a lot of really unjustified confidence. It also didn't help that our best side wasn't on the pitch, so we have to learn from these mistakes. But sometimes in sport, fortunes change quickly and I definitely think there are youngsters who can make a difference."

Laidlaw doesn't believe in Hollywood-style revivals, but his own experiences testify to the value of planning long term and investing in youth. After all, the woes of '85 were replaced with three victories and a record thrashing of England 12 months later. In which light, there is no reason why the tristesse suffered in the Eternal City should turn into an endless decline.

Stuart Hogg has demonstrated that he has the ability to unlock defences and, at just 19, has the next decade to stamp his imprint all over the game. As of June, Edinburgh's prolific winger, Tim Visser, will be eligible for Scotland and the SRU should be looking to fast-track Mark Bennett – another teenager – into the senior ranks, and particularly if he gains inclusion to the Clermont-Auvergne starting XV. There seems to be an aversion in Scotland to blooding youngsters, but Wales have profited from exposing George North to Test rugby at 17 and Bennett, a feisty, ambitious Ayrshireman, is one of the brightest stars in his country's firmament at the moment.

In any rebuilding programme, there will be casualties and we can surely bid 'ciao' to Nick De Luca, while the likes of Graeme Morrison and Allan Jacobsen must be nearing the climax of their illustrious tours of duty; Jim Hamilton and Euan Murray might struggle to add significantly to their present cap tally.

Looking ahead to next year's Six Nations may seem premature, but what about a back line, comprising the likes of Hogg, Visser, Max Evans, Bennett, Lee Jones and a half-back pairing of Duncan Weir and Greig Laidlaw? That group will only have a cumulative aggregate of 160 years (and an average age under 23) between them by the start of the next championship, but they would bring lashings of exuberance, off-the-cuff spontaneity, and brio to their country's cause and when one examines how the Welsh have just won a grand slam with a group of kids, it is overdue for their Scottish counterparts to attempt likewise.

"I can't see what harm it would do to bring in some new faces, if they have the talent and the temperament, because losing becomes a habit and that was one of the most disappointing things about the Italy defeat; the fact that the Italians weren't that good either, but the Scots looked like they lacked enthusiasm and structure," said Laidlaw. "Stuart Hogg has proved that he can unlock the door of quality opposition defences, Visser is a try machine, and I have heard good reports of several of the others. So let's pick them and see whether they have what it takes to make their mark at test level."

The forwards, too, require some tinkering. On paper, they look a formidable bunch, but on grass, one or two players, including Jim Hamilton and John Barclay have not glittered in recent matches and it would be wise to consider an injection of new blood.

Richie Gray, the stand-out for the Scots in the 2012 tournament, should only benefit from moving to Sale Sharks, while the rapid rise of David Denton should inspire the likes of Rob Harley – who is only 21 – to go the extra mile in training.

The front row remains a problem area, with Jacobsen reaching 34 later this year, Euan Murray's form having dipped from the highs of three years ago, allied to his refusal to play on Sundays, and Ross Ford endured a miserable afternoon in Rome and should be spared any further leadership chores in the future, with either Al Kellock or Kelly Brown gaining the captaincy in future campaigns. None of these changes will transform the SRU's finest into world-beaters, but it should elevate them from perennial wooden-spoon status.

Ultimately, though, there are no quick fixes or magic wands. Laidlaw told Herald Sport: "The reality is that it's always hard for Scotland. Ever since the game turned professional, the other leading countries have more teams and more players than us and they are usually bigger and more physical as well. So it will be a constant struggle for us to compete. With that in mind, we have to make the most of what we do have."

He's right, of course. But that won't materialise without better man-management than was evident during the last couple of months. The Class of 2013 can help raise spirits. But first, men such as Weir need to be treated properly by those who employ them.

Drysdale raises a lot of good points. The interuption of Park's retirement really set the tone for the 6N and I reckon a team of young hotshots will really turn some heads in the Summer tour.

My worry is will the young backline highlighted in the article be able to handle the physicality of the Pacific Islanders? We all know how much they love the collisions and the contact area I'm just not 100% convinced they could compete with the intense physicality

I'm not for 1 minute selecting Morrison as a plugger, I would rather leak tries and score more than endure another bish bash bosh option. However we don't have many good tacklers in that backline. A centre who could put in some big hits to put the powerful pacific Backrowers and Centres on the back foot. Grove anyone? I don't watch much premiership rugby, and the only time I have ever seen him play was for Scotland and he looked like a very capable player in attack and defence, perhaps Robinson didn't like him.....

The backline highlighted in the article although explosive and probably good with the ball in hand, the powerful pacific Islanders would have me worrying though when we are under the cosh. I would bring in Grove to put in some bigger hits.

nickj wrote:Firstly do we know how big the squad will be?

Secondly I dont think we should cull our experienced players en masse? Yes, chop out the deadwood but don't pick the new shiny things for the sake of it.

For example it would be mad to drop Jim Hamilton. Yellow card aside, he's had a cracking tournament.

Props: Low, Murray, Welsh, Cross, Grant / Shiells

Hookers: Ford, S Lawon, MacArthur

Locks: Gray, Hamilton, McKenzie, Gilchrist

Back Row: Brown (C), Rennie, Barclay, Denton, McInally, Harley

SH: Laidlaw, McKibbin, Blair / Cusiter

Stand Off: Jackson, Weir, Leonard

Centre: De Luca, Ansbro, 2 of Grove / Scott / Morrison

Wings: Visser, Jones, Evans, S Lamont / Brown

(ASBO is Maitland a goer?)

FB: Hogg, Thompson

TJ wrote:Given who we are playing I think it should be a development tour - do guys like Hamilton not need some time off?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

TJ wrote:Given who we are playing I think it should be a development tour - do guys like Hamilton not need some time off?

The thing is, even if you label this a "development tour", there's always a balance to strike. Pick a completely new, fresh and callow side doesn't really serve any purpose. The packs gets butchered, the half backs are on the back foot and the outside backs don't get the ball. It's basically just 80 minutes of tackling practice (which admittedly many of our players could use).

It has to be a blend, so that there's enough of a platform for the young players who we do want to introduce into the side to show what they can do. That's the only way in which we'll learn anything and they'll develop.

Drysdale has clearly discussed his article in advance with ASBO, the Mark Bennett fan club!

Majestic83 wrote:I think Maitland could be a goer. He certainly states his Scottishness on his twitter account. Having spoken to him a couple of times I think if a club could be found for him over here then he would come over to play.

Knowsit17 wrote:I might be wrong but are people not only condoning poaching but also cataloguing potential poaches? That's what it looked like reading the first comments of this thread...

If they are then it rings of desperate and actually quite low tbh.

Knowsit17 wrote:I might be wrong but are people not only condoning poaching but also cataloguing potential poaches? That's what it looked like reading the first comments of this thread...

If they are then it rings of desperate and actually quite low tbh.

KickAndChase wrote:Sean Maitland I think would be crazy to play for Scotland unless he really feels Scottish or maybe particularly wants to play in France, because he is rather good.

I think Macknocked-on put it well - Scotland has always been a country exporting people to far corners of the earth and it doesn't make them any less Scottish.

nickj wrote:What do you mean George?

Does anyone know how Muldowney is coming along at the Chiefs? I hear he scored the crucial try at the weekend. Could he become an option if he plays regularly for Exeter?