Madrid Masters 1000 match thread

[lydian]

First topic message reminder :

Just somewhere to drop random comments on the matches outside the draw and picking threads.

Youhnzy got a good win over Fognini today winning in 3rd set TB.
Wawrinka continuing his good form with a win over Popsicle.
Paire and Monaco have also won.

However, THE match today has to be Djokovic vs Dimitrov at around 7pm UK time.
Can Grigor take heart from recent matches to keep pushing on?
Can he pose a serious challenge to Djokovic on lung-busting clay?
The faster altitude should help Grigor who has a fast serve and flashing groundstrokes.

[Haddie-nuff]

Ahh well you see HM even Im doing the poor man a disservice... I hope he still keeps battling on I am and always have been a big fan of Daveeed. Lets face it he may not be a Rafa killer but he is sure as God made Little Apples a big obstacle to many others.

And ironically he's usually a big obstacle who plays well in the key moments! If only he did v those ranked higher than him.

I suspect that our opinions on Ferrer are not actually that different. I think you must be a more sympathetic individual than I though!

Awwwww HM... have you not noticed Im a big fan of the whole Spanish Armada.. I have to be its my adopted country and I stay true to the boys. Im sorry you have found me to be unsympathetic Ill try harder next time.

[HM Murdock]

Yes, I find Nadal against anyone other than Djokovic on clay to be a dull exercise in viewing. Ferrer at this tournament, Almagro in the past; even when players are challenging him on clay he either finds the way to win or they find a way to lose to him.

The thing that frustrates me is how few opponents just come out and really have a go at him. There's nothing to lose, he's the clay GOAT, just be brave and really go for it.

So frequently his opponents seem intimidated and, if they do get chances, it's as if they can't believe what is happening and freeze.

There's no shame in losing to Rafa. I thought, for example, that Del Po, Dimitrov and Gulbis could all take great credit, even though they lost. They came out ready to go to battle. They believed they could beat him.

I just wish more people would take the same approach.

[JuliusHMarx]

He makes a strong argument for the best 5'9 player in the Open Era putting Laver to one side?

Rios?

[HM Murdock]

Awwwww HM... have you not noticed Im a big fan of the whole Spanish Armada.. I have to be its my adopted country and I stay true to the boys. Im sorry you have found me to be unsympathetic Ill try harder next time.

Ha! I actually said you were sympathetic! Although, now I think of it, you did come out all guns blazing at poor little old me, so maybe I should re-assess my opinion!

[HM Murdock]

He makes a strong argument for the best 5'9 player in the Open Era putting Laver to one side?

It was Almagro who showed cowardice in their AO QF match this year.

Maybe... but that's a very niche category!

I agree on Almagro but I don't want to bring down the wrath of Haddie by moaning about another Spanish player!

(love you really, Haddie )

[Haddie-nuff]

Yes, I find Nadal against anyone other than Djokovic on clay to be a dull exercise in viewing. Ferrer at this tournament, Almagro in the past; even when players are challenging him on clay he either finds the way to win or they find a way to lose to him.

The thing that frustrates me is how few opponents just come out and really have a go at him. There's nothing to lose, he's the clay GOAT, just be brave and really go for it.

So frequently his opponents seem intimidated and, if they do get chances, it's as if they can't believe what is happening and freeze.

There's no shame in losing to Rafa. I thought, for example, that Del Po, Dimitrov and Gulbis could all take great credit, even though they lost. They came out ready to go to battle. They believed they could beat him.

I just wish more people would take the same approach.


l.

That is why Rafa is Rafa and that is why he is where he is. Many have tried and many better than Ferrer and Almagro at that. When Federer himself has said " you can only say you have beaten Rafa when you win that last point" I think that says it all

[Haddie-nuff]

He makes a strong argument for the best 5'9 player in the Open Era putting Laver to one side?

It was Almagro who showed cowardice in their AO QF match this year.

Maybe... but that's a very niche category!

I agree on Almagro but I don't want to bring down the wrath of Haddie by moaning about another Spanish player!

(love you really, Haddie )

Awwwww your just saying that HM...I have to agree a little about Nico though.. he needs a kick up his lovely Spanish backside.

[lydian]

Good call on Rios JHM
Some seriously underachieved talent there even with the 5 Masters titles.
Another one is Coria perhaps.

Agree Haddie. At some point you have to just admit that Rafa is unbelievably hard to beat on clay. Call it what you will but his talent on the surface shines through, that movement and spin is unreal, its so hard to face...even seasoned pros struggle to get balls back at times. This is the 16 year old who beat Costa, the defending RG Champion, in Monte Carlo in straights in 2003. Since 2005 he's only been beaten in finals on clay by 3 men...Djokovic, Federer and Zeballos(!). Some have called it the toughest challenge in sport a few years back to beat Nadal on clay. Is it any wonder some give up hope once their chance has gone?

[Haddie-nuff]

This is a quote by Warwrinka today


"[Nadal’s] a lefty and puts so much topspin on his forehand, so I have to [play my] backhand always high," said Wawrinka. "So I need to have the perfect timing to play a strong shot. You could see today [that] if I don't have the legs to get there, I have no chance to come back in the point. So many times [today] he hit one [or] two forehands to my backhand and I could come back."

[HM Murdock]

Lydian, you're right, Rafa's ability is the main factor in this.

And on one level, it doesn't matter if you lose 7-6(11) 7-6(13) or 6-0 6-0. It's still a loss.

But, as a fan, I'd rather see someone chuck everything they have at Rafa and leave nothing on court than bow to the inevitable.

[lydian]

Not sure Stan should have admitted that Haddie, lol...cue more FHs into the BH next time!

True enough HMM, I think most do try their hardest but he's so very hard to play against, he has you running all over the place and takes your legs from under you so you end up winded and not able to think straight. We haven't probably seen him at peak on clay for 2-3 years now (in my opinion), for me the clay Nadal of 2006, 2008 and 2010 was almost completely unplayable. It's questionable whether he can ever hit those heights again but if he does I don't think anyone can beat him, not even Djokovic at peak...again in my opinion.

[Haddie-nuff]

I have repeated this quote more times than I can count HM but if you have heard it before forgive me.

When Fed was asked if he had problems playing on clay his reply was
"No of course I have no problems playing on clay.. I have problems playing RAFA ON CLAY"

[HM Murdock]

The interesting element in that, Lydian, is that even if Rafa gets that level of play back, he now has mental baggage with Novak that he didn't have in 06, 08 and 10.

It's easier to dominate when you know you're the better player.

But a little doubt can have a big effect.

[HM Murdock]

I have repeated this quote more times than I can count HM but if you have heard it before forgive me.

When Fed was asked if he had problems playing on clay his reply was
"No of course I have no problems playing on clay.. I have problems playing RAFA ON CLAY"

You can add hard courts and grass into that too!

[lydian]

The interesting element in that, Lydian, is that even if Rafa gets that level of play back, he now has mental baggage with Novak that he didn't have in 06, 08 and 10.

It's easier to dominate when you know you're the better player.

But a little doubt can have a big effect.

Yes it is. Let's see what Rome and RG bring HMM...assuming Rafa and Novak get far enough to face each other of course

[Gerry SA]

The interesting element in that, Lydian, is that even if Rafa gets that level of play back, he now has mental baggage with Novak that he didn't have in 06, 08 and 10.

It's easier to dominate when you know you're the better player.

But a little doubt can have a big effect.

Yes it is. Let's see what Rome and RG bring HMM...assuming Rafa and Novak get far enough to face each other of course

If Nadal plays the standard of 2008 again, it doesn't matter what Djokovic has done since 2011, Nadal destroys him with ease.

That's how great the 2008 was. Trust me watching Roger getting humiliated at Roland Garros wasn't very amusing...

[socal1976]

Please Gerry, Nadal is not a worse player today than he is in 2008. People keep talking about how great Nadal was in 08 yes, he played wonderfully but the fact is that Nadal has been to the final of every tournament he is entered this year. And guess what djokovic still beat him, Nadal of the ast couple of years is every bit as good if not better than Nadal of 2008 and Novak has won 8 out 11 of their matchups over the last couple of years. If Nadal 2008 showed up against Djoko 2.0 he would lose worse than the current version of Nadal loses to Djokovic. Early in 2008 Djokovic had chances to overtake Nadal for world #2, Djokovic was no where near as good in 08 as in 2013. Both players are better, Djokovic has improved even more than Nadal has.

[Jahu]

Rafa the Goat, after the Goat daddy (Fed)?

[laverfan]

Rafa the Goat, after the Goat daddy (Fed)?

Watching Stepanek (the GOAT granpa - who beat Federer on clay) play the Italian Star Ace in who-blinks-first.

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