Madrid Masters 1000 match thread

[lydian]

First topic message reminder :

Just somewhere to drop random comments on the matches outside the draw and picking threads.

Youhnzy got a good win over Fognini today winning in 3rd set TB.
Wawrinka continuing his good form with a win over Popsicle.
Paire and Monaco have also won.

However, THE match today has to be Djokovic vs Dimitrov at around 7pm UK time.
Can Grigor take heart from recent matches to keep pushing on?
Can he pose a serious challenge to Djokovic on lung-busting clay?
The faster altitude should help Grigor who has a fast serve and flashing groundstrokes.

[HM Murdock]

Wow, whilst not totally unexpected, that's some result!

Disappointed to see Novak fall so early but the tour needed a result like this from a younger player.

Dimi has been knocking on the door this season, good to see him finally cross the threshold.

[socal1976]

Dimitrov, the only guy of the current crop of youngsters who has a future.

I disagree I think Jerzy, Raonic, and Tomic all have good futures in the game as well. Kei is still pretty young and I like his upside as well.

[The Special Juan]

There's nothing much standing between Berdych and the final now.

[Danny_1982]

Have Federer fans found their second love?

[CAS]

Janowicz is the other that excites me as well, Raonic bores me and Tomic has the best slam results but seems to have no weapons.

[CAS]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

[invisiblecoolers]

As long as he can school Raonic then that's good enough for me.

Why you so upset on Raonic? he is a poor young kid coming up from Canada, he has done well in the Davis cup and I guess if he can steer Canada to a title win it will boost his confidence big time for some serious title next year.

[invisiblecoolers]

There's nothing much standing between Berdych and the final now.

Well Jerry awaits him the next round and I sense an upset.

[The Special Juan]

As long as he can school Raonic then that's good enough for me.

Why you so upset on Raonic? he is a poor young kid coming up from Canada, he has done well in the Davis cup and I guess if he can steer Canada to a title win it will boost his confidence big time for some serious title next year.

His game bores me to tears (plus he has a weird squashed face). Unless it's Ivo Karlovic, these big servers are painful to watch.

[Chydremion]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

He was abused because of an untimely MTO.

Oh, and of course because the Spanish have no class.

Oh, and because he's Rafa's biggest rival.

[socal1976]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

Thanks CAS, I don't think it hurts his chances for the big prize at RG maybe serves as a wake up call for a little self satisfactions that results from the good result in MC. The crowd was really looking for opportunities to get on him, and in the past that has thrown him off, it isn't easy being the guy to come after Federer and Nadal and to break up their duopoly, especially on the road in spain.

[kingraf]

Didnt like the MTO, but fair play at the end... Now, can Murray make w MS1000 clay final? HawkEye?

[CaledonianCraig]

Didnt like the MTO, but fair play at the end... Now, can Murray make w MS1000 clay final? HawkEye?

Unless he can recreate the sort of clay form he showed in Monte Carlo 2011 then I don't think so to be honest.

[The Special Juan]

I don't think Simon will beat him but Berdych will eat him.

[kingraf]

That comment was tongue in cheek.

[invisiblecoolers]

Didnt like the MTO, but fair play at the end... Now, can Murray make w MS1000 clay final? HawkEye?

Well Ferrer has been his Achilles heels in clay and if I am right and with all the other top 3 on one side of the draw Murray could easily march into semi's if Berdych falls tomorrow.

[invisiblecoolers]

I don't think Simon will beat him but Berdych will eat him.

Berdych will go down to Jerry tomorrow.

[CAS]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

Thanks CAS, I don't think it hurts his chances for the big prize at RG maybe serves as a wake up call for a little self satisfactions that results from the good result in MC. The crowd was really looking for opportunities to get on him, and in the past that has thrown him off, it isn't easy being the guy to come after Federer and Nadal and to break up their duopoly, especially on the road in spain.

I will be watching him closely in Rome, he definitely struggles with his movement on clay and grass which is what makes him Novak Djokovic. I think we expect too much from these guys after the incredible heights they have reached, but at the end of the day Djokovic is vulnerable on this surface as is Murray, Nadal in indoor and Federer on slow hard courts. It just shows how great they are that they still rarely lose on them.

[The Special Juan]

I don't think Simon will beat him but Berdych will eat him.

Berdych will go down to Jerry tomorrow.

Sorry, Jerry will eat him

[Danny_1982]

Socal - I don't see Novak's RG chances as serious diminished at all. He played well in patches, but a very talented player produced a few more moments than he did. It happens every now and then.

Personally, I think only Rafa can stop Novak from winning RG. Novak's chances are just as high as they were before the match.

I liked Novak's response at the end. He appreciated what big moment it was for Dimitrov and warmly congratulated him. Nice touch.

[lydian]

Not sure about the Rafa thing, Madrigals are famously not fans of Catalans (Majorcans are seen as Catalans). That said, it's confused by Nadal supporting Real Madrid. The boo'ing was OTT but you could also argue Djokovic gave them something to hang on with the MTO. However, I wouldn't go labelling a whole country's population as having no class.

Djokovic showed grace in defeat so kudos to him. He, like us, probably knows this guy is for real now. Dimitrov will never again step onto a court in quite the same way, and his opponents will see him differently too. Most importantly Grigor has shown he can live with the best in an extended match so he's going to gain massive self confidence and inner belief from this and become much more of a threat in slams than before. Still, it's early days...but given Federer who is nigh on exactly 10 years older than Dimi won his first slam at Wimb 2003 (and Sampras was 10 years older than Federer and won his first Wimb in 1993) is June 2013 therefore fated to be Grigor's first slam? That would be beyond weird....

[kingraf]

Isnt Ferrer drawn with Nadal?

[Chydremion]

What surprises me is that Dimitrov can actually play on clay, hadn't really expected that before the clay season. Shows he has some of the necessary skills for today's tennis, although he should stop cramping.

[banbrotam]

I don't think Novak or Andy are actually at the races at this moment. It's almost as if they've subconsciously celebrated their new found 'min-dominance' and mentally let it slip

For me, watch out for Roger with the two younger ones dominating from August onwards

[banbrotam]

It will now be interesting to see how Dimi goes on, given that he's going to be correctly hyped as the 'next great hope'. It's fantastic to look a million dollars in events where you are the underdog - let's see if he gets to the quarters of the next three slams and we can say he's truly arrived

[The Special Juan]

He needs to back-up the big wins.

In more impressive giant killing news, Lozza Rozza plays Ivanovic tomorrow night.

[invisiblecoolers]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

Djokovic took an injury time out on the crucial point which did disturb young Dimi's concentration, while I appreciate Djoko's reaction after the defeat his MTO came at the real wrong time and he abused/used the MTO system to break his opponents concentration, I don't see that as class. , still a long way to go for Djoko to win sportsmanship feeling among fans.

He was rightly booed by the crowd.

[CAS]

It will now be interesting to see how Dimi goes on, given that he's going to be correctly hyped as the 'next great hope'. It's fantastic to look a million dollars in events where you are the underdog - let's see if he gets to the quarters of the next three slams and we can say he's truly arrived

I can actually see him losing to Stan in the next round as he loses some adrenaline, but that being said he showed a little more than talent tonight he had bottle. The thing I noticed most was how few UEs he hit, couldn't believe how often he stayed in the rally when Novak was turning the screw

[CAS]

It will now be interesting to see how Dimi goes on, given that he's going to be correctly hyped as the 'next great hope'. It's fantastic to look a million dollars in events where you are the underdog - let's see if he gets to the quarters of the next three slams and we can say he's truly arrived

I can actually see him losing to Stan in the next round as he loses some adrenaline, but that being said he showed a little more than talent tonight he had bottle. The thing I noticed most was how few UEs he hit, couldn't believe how often he stayed in the rally when Novak was turning the screw

[ryan86]

Dimitrov and Sharapova obviously have something planned. With Grigor's match being a marathon, Sharapova is in a hurry. 6-1 2-0 for the loss of 11 points.

[invisiblecoolers]

It will now be interesting to see how Dimi goes on, given that he's going to be correctly hyped as the 'next great hope'. It's fantastic to look a million dollars in events where you are the underdog - let's see if he gets to the quarters of the next three slams and we can say he's truly arrived

I can actually see him losing to Stan in the next round as he loses some adrenaline, but that being said he showed a little more than talent tonight he had bottle. The thing I noticed much was how few UEs he hit, couldn't believe how often he stayed in the rally when Novak was turning the screw

Lets put it this way CAS, Nole didn't play his best, either it was his off day or Dimi didn't let him play his best or may be a combination of both.

[invisiblecoolers]

Dimitrov and Sharapova obviously have something planned. With Grigor's match being a marathon, Sharapova is in a hurry. 6-1 2-0 for the loss of 11 points.

Well Dimi deserve a treat for what he did today, so if he gets it he deserves it .

[ryan86]

I don't think Novak or Andy are actually at the races at this moment. It's almost as if they've subconsciously celebrated their new found 'min-dominance' and mentally let it slip

For me, watch out for Roger with the two younger ones dominating from August onwards

Novak seems very hot and cold at the moment. Almost win or bust. I mentioned that the players Laura Robson beats are more impressive than those she loses against and Novak has been kinda like that this season. Losing to Haas, del Potro and Dimitrov in the 1000's, yet winning against Murray and Nadal in finals.

[lydian]

The other way to look at it is that there is something in the way SHBHers play that troubles Novak...Federer has consistently caused him problems, we saw Stan come very close at AO, Tommy beat him in Miami and he's been pushed by Dimitrov close before in the first set at IW...and then the win tonight.

What is it about the SHBH that causes his BH to be not as good? I think it's the variety the SHBH can create, SHBHers usually have much better slices and Novak often struggles with those, SHBHsrs tend to also get good width and angle on their shots, finally SHBH is almost a more powerful shot reducing time to get the feet outside to play the DHBH as effectively back.

Viva la SHBH!

[invisiblecoolers]

The other way to look at it is that there is something in the way SHBHers play that troubles Novak...Federer has consistently caused him problems, we saw Stan come very close at AO, Tommy beat him in Miami and he's been pushed by Dimitrov close before in the first set at IW...and then the win tonight.

What is it about the SHBH that causes his BH to be not as good? I think it's the variety the SHBH can create, SHBHers usually have much better slices and Novak often struggles with those, SHBHsrs tend to also get good width and angle on their shots, finally SHBH is almost a more powerful shot reducing time to get the feet outside to play the DHBH as effectively back.

Viva la SHBH!

It always goes in circle isint? baseliners came into prominance once S&V became a weapon and who knows now S&V would make its return back, but yes its good to know some SHBH players still on circuit and variety is never Djoko's forte, he generally eats those players who play the same game time in and time out unfortunately thats not the case today.

[Silver]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

Agree, well done HM & socal for the sporting reactions. I didn't see the match, shocked at the result despite having an inkling that the upset could occur - same as most of us, I think! Building blocks are falling into place for Dimi after Monte Carlo, we'll see what he does in the next round. Sounds like the crowd were a bit rough on Novak, reminds me of the Berdych incident here quite a few years ago.

[invisiblecoolers]

Djokovic fans full of a class in defeat like Novak was today, very impressed with the Serb he was abused tonight, I'm not always his biggest fan but he always appreciates good play

Agree, well done HM & socal for the sporting reactions. I didn't see the match, shocked at the result despite having an inkling that the upset could occur - same as most of us, I think! Building blocks are falling into place for Dimi after Monte Carlo, we'll see what he does in the next round. Sounds like the crowd were a bit rough on Novak, reminds me of the Berdych incident here quite a few years ago.

Well I dont blame the crowd, they reacted to what they saw.

[summerblues]

Great to see Dimitrov finally getting a result. He has been showing since early spring that he can - when playing well - compete with Novak, Andy and Rafa. Finally he managed to get the job done. Hopefully he will build on this.

[summerblues]

Also, the result gives an opening for someone like Wawrinka or maybe Tsonga to perhaps do really well here.

[kingraf]

I think Dimitrov is at least one off-season away from challenging for slams. Im sorry but cramping (routinely) doesnt inspire confidence in me that he can take to the big guys for at least four sets.

[Haddie-nuff]

Not much to analyse imo.. Nole had a "Rosol" match..He played an unseeded player who played the match of his life. Nole was completeley stunned .. I draw a similar comparison as to what happened to Rafa.

The difference here I believe is that we will be hearing a lot more of Dimitrov-
If he can play like that with cramp.. and no MTO.. he´s some gutsy lad

[lydian]

I don't see this as a Rosol match. Dimitrov is ranked 28 and rising, and is much more talented than Rosol who's had to wait a long time into his career for a significant win. I've not seen Rosol push Murray, Nadal and Djokovic like Dimitrov has and last night he "merely" confirmed what we all knew was coming at some point soon.

The fitness needs to improve but he's still 21. At that age Novak had similar fitness issues and it took him a long time to overcome those. This guy is a prodigious talent, and I agree showed grit too. The 2 things together bode well for his career.

[Haddie-nuff]

It may have confirmed what you thought was coming Lydian... but certainly Djokovic didnt Im confident of that much at least

[lydian]

I agree, I suspect Novak thought it was going to be a whole lot easier than it turned out. It's a great win and I'm sure Grigor will have others...but whether he's a multislam champion in waiting is a whole different bag, after all for all Murray's talent, big wins and Masters titles he's still "only" got the 1 slam. Grigor has also been put in a very difficult place where everyone is assuming he can be another Federer, it's an awful burden of expectation to carry so these big wins are actually all the more impressive given that weight of expectation.

[Haddie-nuff]

Yes on that I agree with you. There were such expectations of Tomic, Raonic Dolgopolov and simply they have amounted to very little indeed. But I do see something in Grigor that I do not see in those mentioned. He is very understated yet quietly confident and I dont think he realises just how good he is. If he can hold on to that and nurture the talent without getting cocky and he can with the help of a good coach AND A VERY GOOD TRAINER... for certainly his fitness will be an issue if he cramps like he did after two sets. But I watch with interest because I find him enormously exciting and we so desperately need another Fed/Nadal in the pipe line.

[lydian]

Yep, he's exciting to watch for sure and is very reminiscent of a young Federer (hence the expectation). What's so appealing is that you can still see a rawness to his game despite all his ability, so you know he's got a lot of potential yet.

Federer was at a similar position back in 2000-2001...he was starting to get some big wins but was still brittle himself. We know now that he absolutely dedicated himself to becoming the fittest player on tour by working out a conditioning "regime", for that's what it was, with Paganini.

They devised a plan between 2000-2003 that sought to enable Federer to play at peak level for 4 hours. It transformed Federer into the champion he became. Even more than when Federer was cutting his teeth 10-11 years ago this is a physical age in tennis so Grigor simply has to develop physically or these wins will be few and far between at slam level. If he can do that then I think we have a future #1 in waiting because he's adept on all surfaces.

[JuliusHMarx]

We know now that he absolutely dedicated himself to becoming the fittest player on tour.....

We do? He was aware that he wasn't as fit as his peers (both his own age and the older players), so set out to get a lot fitter in order to catch up, but how do we know that he "absolutely dedicated himself to becoming the fittest player on tour"?

[kingraf]

Those calves Julian. They talk of a man who spent a lot of time running up and down mountains

[Haddie-nuff]

Well certainly he had one to climb yesterday KR and he made it.

[Jeremy_Kyle]

Well done Dimitrov. Saw only now the sensational result and finally could made sense of Haddie's words too!!

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