@Gatland is a Twit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/07/lions-delete-twitter-gaffe

Does his rep as being the world's largest gob bode well for the tour? Perhaps he should get Alistair Campbell on board. Even the convict ship ad is pretty dumb when you think about it but the impaled bok and suggestion that players were feeling suicidal if not picked....who is in charge of these aspects of the tour and why?

Beefy, the way you write this article makes it look like you're implying that Gatland wrote those tweets. This is obviously not the case. Gatland has been 'in post' since last November and I think he's equipped himself well. No gaffes so far.

Griff wrote:Beefy, the way you write this article makes it look like you're implying that Gatland wrote those tweets. This is obviously not the case. Gatland has been 'in post' since last November and I think he's equipped himself well. No gaffes so far.

er no it doesn't...i specifically ask who is in charge of this aspect of the tour, Gatland's tour

As for no gaffes? Are you quite well? 1. Difficulty of picking English players 2. Sam is Capt because of his relationship with refs...do i need to go on?

Hardly gaffes to do with his large gob though are they?

A coach picks selects a captain because of the professional way he conducts himself off and on the pitch, to his team and the way he communicates to the refs..... ergo they respect him back...........

............ and you think that is a gaffe!?

Beggar belief

Ahem he has selects 10 (TEN) English players, and maybe could have been 11 (ELEVEN) if Wilko said yes......... yes I can see how he has difficulty in selecting English players,

100%beefy wrote:

Griff wrote:Beefy, the way you write this article makes it look like you're implying that Gatland wrote those tweets. This is obviously not the case. Gatland has been 'in post' since last November and I think he's equipped himself well. No gaffes so far.

er no it doesn't...i specifically ask who is in charge of this aspect of the tour, Gatland's tour

As for no gaffes? Are you quite well? 1. Difficulty of picking English players 2. Sam is Capt because of his relationship with refs...do i need to go on?

I would have thought that the way to go about judging Gatland is not by who he selects as players or captain, but rather the way they play and the results of the games.

But since Im a neutral on this one, what would I know?

Griff wrote:Beef flaps, the way you write this article makes it look like you're implying that Gatland wrote those tweets. This is obviously not the case. Gatland has been 'in post' since last November and I think he's equipped himself well. No gaffes so far.

... er other than saying too many English Lions would be bad in Australia

or admitting he had already picked the captain in March, when some contenders weren't available

or indicating he talked to players before the "announcement" was made

or stating that the first Saturday team would be Wales dominated, because of domestic finals and then finds he has no flyhalf

... he has lost credibility with his selection and is doing his best to compound the situation with his careless media soundbites.

I also think he should have kept quiet about the 'Warburton has a good rapport with refs' opinion too.

We don't have many secret weapons up our sleeve as it is!

If Gatland is a twit what does that make the way Woodward managed the Lions and the whole 2005 NZ debacle?

There is no doubt Gatland has history (his pathetic attempt at winding up Hartley a couple of years ago comes to mind). Since then he has generally been pretty quiet as the Welsh players have started fining him every time he says something stupid.

As for the comment he made about English players and the Lions it was actually taken out of context by the English media and if you read the whole of what he said he did not say he wouldn't take English players - he mentioned the excessive media circus that surrounded England at events like the 2011 RWC and the negative impact that could have (and how the Aussie media will pick at them in particular).

I don't know how coming out in advance and saying the team in HK will be Wales dominated is a bad thing - it would have got hugely negative press if he hadn't and the logic he has used (they are all available for the 2 training camps) makes sense as it gives those involved in finals (potentially with the exception of Farrell/Sexton) greater time to recover.

Aukster - there is a difference between the word 'dominated' and picking a complete Welsh 15. By your logic the Lions would have no bench and either Warburton or Tipuric playing 10. He didn't say all Welsh.

I know that east of the Severn Bridge you don't like him because he is Wales coach but who was the viable alternative?

We need to give him a chance and judge him regarding the Lions on what he does in Aus. Worth remembering that he is a kiwi so probably wants to beat the Aussies even more than we all do!

flyhalffactory wrote:A coach picks selects a captain because of the professional way he conducts himself off and on the pitch, to his team and the way he communicates to the refs..... ergo they respect him back...........

............ and you think that is a gaffe!?

Beggar belief

Ahem he has selects 10 (TEN) English players, and maybe could have been 11 (ELEVEN) if Wilko said yes......... yes I can see how he has difficulty in selecting English players,

Tedious personal attack removed

1. DISCLOSING that he picked Sam as a Capt who had a good relationship with refs introduces the perception that said refs could be influenced
by that relationship, hence refs will do their utmost to ensure that perception is not accurate....a wise man would have picked him for that reason and not disclosed it

2. You must be too busy watching rugby laddy to notice that several weeks ago Gatland was in the news for suggesting that the picking of english players was made more difficult by the politics and media focus inherent with selecting them.

wanderingdragon wrote:If Gatland is a twit what does that make the way Woodward managed the Lions and the whole 2005 NZ debacle?

There is no doubt Gatland has history (his pathetic attempt at winding up Hartley a couple of years ago comes to mind). Since then he has generally been pretty quiet as the Welsh players have started fining him every time he says something stupid.

As for the comment he made about English players and the Lions it was actually taken out of context by the English media and if you read the whole of what he said he did not say he wouldn't take English players - he mentioned the excessive media circus that surrounded England at events like the 2011 RWC and the negative impact that could have (and how the Aussie media will pick at them in particular).

I don't know how coming out in advance and saying the team in HK will be Wales dominated is a bad thing - it would have got hugely negative press if he hadn't and the logic he has used (they are all available for the 2 training camps) makes sense as it gives those involved in finals (potentially with the exception of Farrell/Sexton) greater time to recover.

Aukster - there is a difference between the word 'dominated' and picking a complete Welsh 15. By your logic the Lions would have no bench and either Warburton or Tipuric playing 10. He didn't say all Welsh.

I know that east of the Severn Bridge you don't like him because he is Wales coach but who was the viable alternative?

We need to give him a chance and judge him regarding the Lions on what he does in Aus. Worth remembering that he is a kiwi so probably wants to beat the Aussies even more than we all do!

SCW was more of a tw@t than a twit

wanderingdragon

Aukster probably knew that Gatland qualified all he said todate and its fairly obvious he is attempting a windup. So don't get annoyed by it.

Most fans pundits and posters are pretty much ok with how he has been going about things. We all will be cheesed off with some thing or other (me I think he was mad just to choose two 10s) but overall he doing fine.

I think Gatland's biggest weakness is his gob, and the Aussie press are going to have a field day...I mean the convict ship thing is pure Gatland WUM....can't wait until Campo wades in and it all kicks off. Deans and Gats will go toe to toe while the press lap it up and stick the boot into the kiwis. In the midst of all the media carnage there might be a few game so frugby

I doubt Gatland is a twit, but he has said plenty of things that he's subsequently chosen to ignore - selection would mainly be on AIs, selection would be on 6Ns, final selection would be on Heino games, etc - I suspect that he meant them all, in part, at the time. But like Hound, I wish he'd kept schtum on Warburton's coziness with refs - chances are, he'll try that in a test and be sent packing now!

Well, since Robshaw head butted Nigel in that outrageous incident in 2011, he couldn't have been chosen.

O'Connell kicked a Leinster player's head a few weeks back and told the linesman "Don't f**kin' call me up on that or you're f**kin' history!" - so he couldn't have been chosen.

O'Driscoll flattened Poite in that fit of rage back in 2008 - so he couldn't be picked.

It's natural that all the other contenders were raving unpredictable animals who couldn't be trusted not to hit a ref in rage.

Warburton it is - "Yes, please, sir.... will you please sir do the 'touch, pause, engage' bit a little quicker next time, if you please sir, because our lads want to engage a little earlier than the Wallabies might expect. So if you could legalise the early engage a little with a quick call, I'd be ever so grateful, your worshipfulness."

If Gatland is a twit what does that make the way Woodward managed the Lions and the whole 2005 NZ debacle?'

One thing that Gatland and Woodward have in common which will be the undoing of the Lions - their ginormous egos.

SecretFly wrote:
O'Connell kicked a Leinster player's head a few weeks back and told the linesman "Don't f**kin' call me up on that or you're f**kin' history!" - so he couldn't have been chosen.

Interesting comparison between that incident in hurling.

Lar Corbett (Tipp/Munster) and JJ Delaney (Kilkenny/Leinster) had a few handbags at the weekend which ended up with the two of them rolling around the ground for a few minutes and then both being sent off with a mandatory 1 match ban for both.

If you look at this this you will see JJ Delaney hitting Lar on the head with his hurley.

http://www.thescore.ie/lar-corbett-jj-delaney-tipperary-kilkenny-897355-May2013/

Lar ends up in hospital with a few broken ribs and will be out for 4-6 weeks, but interesting enough his attitude is that stuff like this happens in sport and refuses to blame JJ Delaney or Eoin Murphy (who rushed in) and all very deliberate - i.e., JJ wanted to hurt Lar.

Hopefully someone will point out to Joe Schmidt the culture in Irish sport is not to go whinging about stuff, particularly when its accidental.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

Griff wrote:Beef flaps, the way you write this article makes it look like you're implying that Gatland wrote those tweets. This is obviously not the case. Gatland has been 'in post' since last November and I think he's equipped himself well. No gaffes so far.

er no it doesn't...i specifically ask who is in charge of this aspect of the tour, Gatland's tour

As for no gaffes? Are you quite well? 1. Difficulty of picking English players 2. Sam is Capt because of his relationship with refs...do i need to go on?

I would have thought that the way to go about judging Gatland is not by who he selects as players or captain, but rather the way they play and the results of the games.

But since Im a neutral on this one, what would I know?

Gatland is a Kiwi so you arent really a neutral with respect to Warren G are you?

He is a motor mouth but that is par for the course with SH coaches so he will be in good company down there.

................ I wish there was a sigh emoticon here.

Sin é, that was a bit of a joke on the idea that Warburton gets Captaincy because of him having good relations with refs. The implication being that any of the other candidates obviously didn't.

But if you insist on making it an issue yet again........................! Even though you keep saying everyone should forget about it..................!

Here's my latest thought on it. Schmidt was not whinging, he was saying the risks involved meant that the incident should have been brought before a citing panel. He said such an incident required that authorities were seen to take it seriously. He wasn't talking about intent or about Paul O'Connell in the particular. he was talking about authorites being seen to take such an incident seriously enough to at least have a hearing about it.
Now, you saw him interviewed on the Late Late Show - you talked about that interview a few weeks back. So? Why was he so animated and passionate about the dangers (real ones...not 'stuff happens' ones) of head injuries?

Sin é wrote:Interesting comparison between that incident in hurling.

Lar Corbett (Tipp/Munster) and JJ Delaney (Kilkenny/Leinster) had a few handbags at the weekend which ended up with the two of them rolling around the ground for a few minutes and then both being sent off with a mandatory 1 match ban for both.

If you look at this this you will see JJ Delaney hitting Lar on the head with his hurley.

http://www.thescore.ie/lar-corbett-jj-delaney-tipperary-kilkenny-897355-May2013/

Lar ends up in hospital with a few broken ribs and will be out for 4-6 weeks, but interesting enough his attitude is that stuff like this happens in sport and refuses to blame JJ Delaney or Eoin Murphy (who rushed in) and all very deliberate - i.e., JJ wanted to hurt Lar.

Hopefully someone will point out to Joe Schmidt the culture in Irish sport is not to go whinging about stuff, particularly when its accidental.

Gaelic games mirror some of the ugly facets of Irish society. Sly digs are part and parcel of the game and life in Ireland. The bigger a cowboy you are the more respect you get. In particular in fianna Fail circles. If you are a little bit corrupt and you let a few digs fly occasionally sure youre bit bit of a cute hoor and thats an admirable quality. Better than being a square.

Thankfully rugby is not Gaelic football.

I like Gatland.
I think he gets mightily emotionally involved in his rugby and that can lead him to saying all kinds of things.
But overall, he's a guy who loves rugby, he doesn't hide it or his ambitions. He can waffle as much as he likes. It entertains me.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:Interesting comparison between that incident in hurling.

Lar Corbett (Tipp/Munster) and JJ Delaney (Kilkenny/Leinster) had a few handbags at the weekend which ended up with the two of them rolling around the ground for a few minutes and then both being sent off with a mandatory 1 match ban for both.

If you look at this this you will see JJ Delaney hitting Lar on the head with his hurley.

http://www.thescore.ie/lar-corbett-jj-delaney-tipperary-kilkenny-897355-May2013/

Lar ends up in hospital with a few broken ribs and will be out for 4-6 weeks, but interesting enough his attitude is that stuff like this happens in sport and refuses to blame JJ Delaney or Eoin Murphy (who rushed in) and all very deliberate - i.e., JJ wanted to hurt Lar.

Hopefully someone will point out to Joe Schmidt the culture in Irish sport is not to go whinging about stuff, particularly when its accidental.

Gaelic games are a bit like Irish society. Sly digs are part and parcel of the game and life in Ireland. The bigger a cowboy you are the more respect you get. In particular in fianna Fail circles. If you are a little bit corrupt and you let a few digs fly occasionally sure youre bit bit of a cute hoor and thats an admirable quality. Better than being a square.

Thankfully rugby is not Gaelic football.

On the button Guns........

100%beefy wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:A coach picks selects a captain because of the professional way he conducts himself off and on the pitch, to his team and the way he communicates to the refs..... ergo they respect him back...........

............ and you think that is a gaffe!?

Beggar belief

Ahem he has selects 10 (TEN) English players, and maybe could have been 11 (ELEVEN) if Wilko said yes......... yes I can see how he has difficulty in selecting English players,

Tedious personal attack removed

1. DISCLOSING that he picked Sam as a Capt who had a good relationship with refs introduces the perception that said refs could be influenced
by that relationship, hence refs will do their utmost to ensure that perception is not accurate....a wise man would have picked him for that reason and not disclosed it

2. You must be too busy watching rugby laddy to notice that several weeks ago Gatland was in the news for suggesting that the picking of english players was made more difficult by the politics and media focus inherent with selecting them.

He qualified "good relationship quite clearly and indubitably, there was no muddy waters........ and yes I listened to the whole media interview (not just the sensationalist cut and paste newspaper article). I believe the tone was such that Gatland considers the refs respect the guy on and off the field and to have a good long tour you need to have representation that absorbs the refs respect. So to state that can only be a favourable thing and the refs are no mugs.

The Australian press were already making waves of how many Englishmen would be in the squad before the final 6Ns match as they were already on a "Slam" also there was articles about Tualagi jumping overboard, Ashtons swan-dive and and who will be Robshaws vice capt, Clearly the Australia as a nation and the press are more interested in anything "English" as opposed to Irish, Scots or Welsh and he kinda agreed to an extent. Again I believe if you read/listened to the entire media communication and not the paper selling extracts then it wasn't so sensational as it wasn't so much the quantity of English players but more to do with as a nation they attract media and political attention.

Both your examples in your mind are gaffes...... and in my mind they are not

I mean he could say "no comment" to everything thrown at him, but unfortunately he has to attend press interviews as head coach.

ps you can throw all the nasty personal names you like......... and the mods needn't delete, they sail over my head and just shows you up for what you really are.

flyhalffactory wrote: I believe the tone was such that Gatland considers the refs respect the guy on and off the field and to have a good long tour you need to have representation that absorbs the refs respect.

There are many reasons Gatland might choose Warburton for Captain though, flyhalf. And I suppose any reason he cared to put to the media could be hooked to the idea that "so could the other candidates".
But this reason works differently. Saying he chose Warburton for Captain because refs respect him on and off the field does (and you have to admit it does) imply that the other candidates maybe lacked that quality of impressing refs both on and off the field.

I know what he doesn't mean that, but using a prominent reason like that publically, it suggests its own conclusions. But that's Gatland. He'll say what he says.

SecretFly wrote:................ I wish there was a sigh emoticon here.

Sin é, that was a bit of a joke on the idea that Warburton gets Captaincy because of him having good relations with refs. The implication being that any of the other candidates obviously didn't.

But if you insist on making it an issue yet again........................! Even though you keep saying everyone should forget about it..................!

Here's my latest thought on it. Schmidt was not whinging, he was saying the risks involved meant that the incident should have been brought before a citing panel. He said such an incident required that authorities were seen to take it seriously. He wasn't talking about intent or about Paul O'Connell in the particular. he was talking about authorites being seen to take such an incident seriously enough to at least have a hearing about it.
Now, you saw him interviewed on the Late Late Show - you talked about that interview a few weeks back. So? Why was he so animated and passionate about the dangers (real ones...not 'stuff happens' ones) of head injuries?

Schmidt's immediate reaction was 'it didn't look good - what about the children watching it on tv/utube - it was several days later we heard about his son.' Well guess what, I doubt if Lar's broken ribs will have the mothers of Ireland stopping their kids playing hurling.

The reason why I brought it up is to draw attention to a similar incident that happened in sport in Ireland on Sunday and there is no outrage about it. Leinster are still moaning about Kearney being out. Lar & Tipp are taking a much more measured view - they sure as hell are not worried about the children of the world watching it on utube

SecretFly wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote: I believe the tone was such that Gatland considers the refs respect the guy on and off the field and to have a good long tour you need to have representation that absorbs the refs respect.

There are many reasons Gatland might choose Warburton for Captain though, flyhalf. And I suppose any reason he cared to put to the media could be hooked to the idea that "so could the other candidates".
But this reason works differently. Saying he chose Warburton for Captain because refs respect him on and off the field does (and you have to admit it does) imply that the other candidates maybe lacked that quality of impressing refs both on and off the field.

I know what he doesn't mean that, but using a prominent reason like that publically, it suggests its own conclusions. But that's Gatland. He'll say what he says.

Understand what you are saying and I would consider it if he just said it in isolation........ which he most certainly didn't. He also stated their were many candidates that have mostly the same attributes (apart from obviously being top class players) i.e. strength of character, the respect of the players and coaches etc etc. The press didn't pursue it at the media conference at the time but of course it sells papers to make controversy.

Put it this way its very much part of a skippers role to communicate with the press and the referees so its not as if Gatland wasn't going to state that his chosen player wasn't good at that

Sin é wrote:Leinster are still moaning about Kearney being out.

Bullshyte Sin. You're doing more to keep BootGate alive in the minds of people than the entire Eastern Seaboard. If they're moaning about Kearney being out it might be because he's a player who might have had a part to play in coming games. If it was a big issue, that is - and it isn't from what I'm reading. Most certainly O'Connell isn't being talked about still in relation to anything.

As for the two Hurling (helmet wearing) guys who used sports equipment as weapons during a sporting event? Hurray for the wild GAA tough men! Nice lads.

flyhalffactory wrote:A coach picks selects a captain because of the professional way he conducts himself off and on the pitch, to his team and the way he communicates to the refs..... ergo they respect him back...........

............ and you think that is a gaffe!?

Beggar belief

Ahem he has selects 10 (TEN) English players, and maybe could have been 11 (ELEVEN) if Wilko said yes......... yes I can see how he has difficulty in selecting English players,

1. I think the point was that admitting in public that you've selected a captain because of the way he deals with referees might actually harm his ability to do it, if the referee reads it and makes a conscious effort to stop it happening.

2. Again, the gaffe he made was his comments and the inevitable media storm aterwards rather than his actual selections.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Leinster are still moaning about Kearney being out.

Bullshyte Sin. You're doing more to keep BootGate alive in the minds of people than the entire Eastern Seaboard. If they're moaning about Kearney being out it might be because he's a player who might have had a part to play in coming games. If it was a big issue, that is - and it isn't from what I'm reading. Most certainly O'Connell isn't being talked about still in relation to anything.

As for the two Hurling (helmet wearing) guys who used sports equipment as weapons during a sporting event? Hurray for the wild GAA tough men! Nice lads.

Are you suggesting that Lar Corbett isn't needed by Tipp, they guy who scored a goal hattrick against Kilkenny in an All Ireland final

Anyway, I think the GAA's methods are far more effective when it comes to not frightening the mothers of Ireland.
Lar V JJ = less than 1,000 views on Utube.
POC v Kearney beag = 194,500+

Sin é wrote:

Are you suggesting that Lar Corbett isn't needed by Tipp, they guy who scored a goal hattrick against Kilkenny in an All Ireland final

Anyway, I think the GAA's methods are far more effective when it comes to not frightening the mothers of Ireland.
Lar V JJ = less than 1,000 views on Utube.
POC v Kearney beag = 194,500+

Why do you write a Bible of meaning into a few words so often Sin?

I wasn't suggesting anything about Lar Corbett. Like football, I'm not the most avid watcher of GAA games. Just doesn't fly my kite as it were.

So I wasn't suggesting a blasted thing about Lar. He and his followers can do and think what they like. I was saying if Leinster fans were worrying about Kearney's lack of availability it might have something to do with him being one of their players who might have had some part to play in upcoming games.
I also said I didn't hear a lot of that moaning around and that you're embellishing the drama for your own ends - keeping an issue alive that you say Schmidt should have let die

The point remains that Lar and friends wear helmets...and some of Lar's friends use their sporting equipment as weapons - grand lads that they are. In brief, I don't have much time for Hurling stars 'leaving it all on the field' having engaged in stuff that doesn't need to be on a field in the first place. If they want to fight like men, drop the sticks and use their fists, like rugby players

I always thought Gatland was an ENTJ,
with his strong leader ship skills calm controlled nature when up against it,but a streak fun almost WUM nature with the thrill of being loathed.

But i guess some guy on the internet thinks the triple English premiership,anglo Welsh cup, Heineken cup,Amlin cup,Air NewZealand cup, double GrandSlam,Double triple crown winning coach is a twit! then he must be one.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Leinster are still moaning about Kearney being out.

Bullshyte Sin. You're doing more to keep BootGate alive in the minds of people than the entire Eastern Seaboard. If they're moaning about Kearney being out it might be because he's a player who might have had a part to play in coming games. If it was a big issue, that is - and it isn't from what I'm reading. Most certainly O'Connell isn't being talked about still in relation to anything.

As for the two Hurling (helmet wearing) guys who used sports equipment as weapons during a sporting event? Hurray for the wild GAA tough men! Nice lads.

Are you suggesting that Lar Corbett isn't needed by Tipp, they guy who scored a goal hattrick against Kilkenny in an All Ireland final

Anyway, I think the GAA's methods are far more effective when it comes to not frightening the mothers of Ireland.
Lar V JJ = less than 1,000 views on Utube.
POC v Kearney beag = 194,500+

Its completely off topic but it fairly obvious the GAA clearly needs upgrading and to clean up its act a bit. There have been too many instances of refs being abused, locals invading the pitches, sectarianism and even racism. If it cant clean up its act it will no doubt eventually appeal only to a smaller group of savages and lose its foothold as Ireland's most popular sport.