Rome Masters 1000 match thread

[lydian]

First topic message reminder :

So off we go again and Madrid isn't even done yet!

The home of gladiatorial sport sees the leading claycourters lock battle once again to the wonderful tree-lined backdrop. Rome Masters has been going since 1930 and seen many illustrious winners down the years including, some may not know, the current coach of Stanislas Wawrinka - Magnus Norman back in 2000 who beat none other than Gustavo Kuerten.



Can Nadal win his 7th title? Can Novak win his 3rd? Can Andy break his clay final duck? Can Roger get to another final...he's never won in Rome although held MPs in 2006.

It seems Rome always gives us great matches and interesting player arguments too!

Here's the interactive draw:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?EventId=416&Year=2013

[invisiblecoolers]

Kudos Tommy, its about time he beat Novak. Can he beat Rafa as well? Im not so sure but less see!

I don't think so he has in him to beat Rafa in clay, Rafa will grind him out badly.

[HM Murdock]

Steady on, HMM ..... I'd say that's a tad pessimistic just now.

But an 'early' exit at RG .... and things could start looking tricky.

I wouldn't be at all surprised at an early RG exit. I think on current form, there are a number of players who could beat Novak, especially on clay.

Would it be a huge surprise if, for example, Wawrinka, Haas, Dimitrov or Gulbis beat him? He'd be favourite of course but I don't think a defeat would be the surprise it has been in the past.

[lydian]

So whats happened to Djokovic?

[invisiblecoolers]

Didn't expect this coming, did Djoko tank the match fearing a Rafa encounter before FO?

Paire win looks ridiculous considering the score.

[kingraf]

What is up with Novak? I had him losing, but this was... remarkable. Incredible hitting from Berdman, really. But Nole seems strangely, vulnerable. And the worrying thing is that he isnt just losing/being challenged by one sort of tennis. He got outhit today. In IW, he really couldnt handle the Delpo slice (which isnt really the Creme slice on tour). In Miami he got out thought. And in Madrid he got out hustled by a hobbling Dimitrov.

Of course, he is still one of the favorites for RG, and he did beat Nadal, but it seems he really cant find the gears when things get a little muddy/rainy/slippery.

[invisiblecoolers]

Wow.

This year was Novak's chance to really shape his legacy.

And he's naffing it up.

This is feeling like an strange period in tennis. Dare I say... transitional...?

I admire you honesty

[HM Murdock]

So whats happened to Djokovic?

His turn-of-the-year form seems to have drained away.

I don't know what's happening.

The ankle is fine, there's no pressure of titles to defend, the poodle is alive and well... I'm stumped.

[CAS]

I think the wind was an issue for him again, as soon as it picked up the game changed

[HM Murdock]

I think the wind was an issue for him again, as soon as it picked up the game changed

The wind normally affects Berd even more though, with that high ball toss of his.

[JuliusHMarx]

Maye Djoko's peak form simply isn't going to last quite as long as people thought. After Fed and Rafa everyone sort of assumed that the next No 1 would also have 4 or 5 years of dominance, when, in fact, those two are the exceptions rather than the rule.

[lydian]

Maybe he peaked through 2011/early 2012.

[CAS]

to be fair he is about to turn 26, it was this age Federer first started to show signs of vulnerability. McEnroe never won a slam after that age etc.

[invisiblecoolers]

come on Daveeeed

If Daveed some how wins a set we will see a bagel in the final , poor Daveed has no much say in the game.

[HM Murdock]

Maye Djoko's peak form simply isn't going to last quite as long as people thought. After Fed and Rafa everyone sort of assumed that the next No 1 would also have 4 or 5 years of dominance, when, in fact, those two are the exceptions rather than the rule.

Maybe.

The thing that frustrates me (well, it doesn't really - my life doesn't change at all whether Novak wins or loses - but you know what I mean!) is that the stage was set for him to really get some wins under his belt.

Fed is semi-retired; Rafa coming back from injury; Andy, as it has turned out, is having problems with injury and form; there's no consistent threat from the younger generation.

And yet, we've not just had losses but some really poor losses.

If you're number 1 with aspirations to win RG, you serve out a match when you get the chance. You don't instead lose 4 games in a row.

[lydian]

Nadal has a point to prove after Madrid (and yesterday) even though he won. I expect a much better fired up performance from him today.

[bogbrush]

I think the wind was an issue for him again, as soon as it picked up the game changed

I agree the wind does hurt him; it killed him against Murray in the USO final.

I think his game is very stiff, he doesn't have the same flexibility of play as his legs show, and the wind can be a complete sod if you can't handle it that way.

[CAS]

When Berdych is in flow and making very few errors it doesn't matter who you are, even Novak and Rafa need him to make mistakes to finally win, if he doesn't they can't influence play if they can't get their racket on the ball. Tsonga, Del Potro and Federer have that in them as well

[lydian]

Fair point about the wind but we're not talking USO hurricane proportions today surely? Plus this isn't his only strange loss....fell away vs Delpo at IW after being up, looked flat vs Haas, fell away vs a tiring Dimitrov in Madrid after again being up, then today.

[invisiblecoolers]

Fair point about the wind but we're not talking USO hurricane proportions today surely? Plus this isn't his only strange loss....fell away vs Delpo at IW after being up, looked flat vs Haas, fell away vs a tiring Dimitrov in Madrid after again being up, then today.

Against Dimitrov he was never up, Dimitrov went 2-0 in the 3rd set st. away and was leading the 2nd set most times and won the 1st set comfortably.

[lydian]

Fair point about the wind but we're not talking USO hurricane proportions today surely? Plus this isn't his only strange loss....fell away vs Delpo at IW after being up, looked flat vs Haas, fell away vs a tiring Dimitrov in Madrid after again being up, then today.

Against Dimitrov he was never up, Dimitrov went 2-0 in the 3rd set st. away and was leading the 2nd set most times and won the 1st set comfortably.

You're right IC, I thought Djoko won the 1st set...I wouldn't say he won the first set easy though given it was a 8-6 TB. Otherwise, fair enough. However, given Dimitrov was cramping at 5-5 in the 2nd it was inconceivable that Djokovic could lose that match in 2011/12.

[JuliusHMarx]

Djoko is 26 right? Or almost?
How many slams did the following players win at age 26 or above - Becker, Wilander, Borg, McEnroe, Edberg, Rafter, Courier, Kuerten, Hewitt.
Answer - 1, Edberg aged 26 & 7 months

It's quite possible that this idea of players keeping improving until 28, 29, 30, is a little over-stated. Not that this rules out a couple more GS for Djoko, but equally a very gradual decline from hereon in would not exactly be unheard of. And at the top level, it only takes a small decline to miss out on a slam.
It could well more interesting, I think, to see how the rest of 2013 pans out for Djoko than for any of the other Big 4.

[lydian]

Yes indeed JHM.
Nadal is YET to win a slam aged over 26, as may be Djokovic.
I know players main playing days are moving from 20-29 to 24-33 but given the tour is now so brutal by 26/27 a lot will be feeling it.

[invisiblecoolers]

Fair point about the wind but we're not talking USO hurricane proportions today surely? Plus this isn't his only strange loss....fell away vs Delpo at IW after being up, looked flat vs Haas, fell away vs a tiring Dimitrov in Madrid after again being up, then today.

Against Dimitrov he was never up, Dimitrov went 2-0 in the 3rd set st. away and was leading the 2nd set most times and won the 1st set comfortably.

You're right IC, I thought Djoko won the 1st set...I wouldn't say he won the first set easy though given it was a 8-6 TB. Otherwise, fair enough. However, given Dimitrov was cramping at 5-5 in the 2nd it was inconceivable that Djokovic could lose that match in 2011/12.

Yup I didn't give much chance to DImitrov in the 3rd and shut my comp off after Djoko won the 2nd set with a bit of MTO gimmick when Grigor was break up which angered me, I thought DJoko cheated his way for a win but young Dimi didn't let it happen.

Today's match is a real surprise, either Djoko struggling to live the hype created by his fans or like other said his peak might just be over.

[invisiblecoolers]

Djoko is 26 right? Or almost?
How many slams did the following players win at age 26 or above - Becker, Wilander, Borg, McEnroe, Edberg, Rafter, Courier, Kuerten, Hewitt.
Answer - 1, Edberg aged 26 & 7 months

It's quite possible that this idea of players keeping improving until 28, 29, 30, is a little over-stated. Not that this rules out a couple more GS for Djoko, but equally a very gradual decline from hereon in would not exactly be unheard of. And at the top level, it only takes a small decline to miss out on a slam.
It could well more interesting, I think, to see how the rest of 2013 pans out for Djoko than for any of the other Big 4.

Very good point, but aren't we not hearing from some set of Djoko fans that Djoko is a better clay court player than Fed comfortably forgetting 5 FO finals and 1 Win over 1 Finals and 0 Wins

[lydian]

For a #1 ranked player to lose from 6-2 5-2 up is actually quite shocking.
He won only 3 more games after Berdych started coming back.
Is it mental or physical weakness? Yes Berdy played well but Djokovic was in control and serving for it. Its plain weird.

IC, we're hearing from some Djoko fans that Novak is the best player ever at just about everything. But you have to be careful in making claims when 4 of his 6 slams came within a 12 month window. Anyway, I don't have the answers but something is going on in his head or body to lose a match like that today.

[JuliusHMarx]

He's a better clay court match up than Fed is against Nadal, but that shoudn't be the yardstick.

[invisiblecoolers]

IC, we're hearing from some Djoko fans that Novak is the best player ever at just about everything. But you have to be careful in making claims when 4 of his 6 slams came within a 12 month window. Anyway, I don't have the answers but something is going on in his head or body to lose a match like that today.

Now you are making me laugh Lyd , I hope the army doesn't see your comment , they are off from the forum right now with a Berd-flu disaster

He's a better clay court match up than Fed is against Nadal, but that shoudn't be the yardstick.

He is a better match up against Nadal on any surface let alone clay, and now Ferrer breaks back to take 2-0 in the second set, can he do the Berd now?

[JuliusHMarx]

... can he do the Berd now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZKR-6jf_2o

[invisiblecoolers]

Daveed on full fire and leading 4-0 with double break.

[invisiblecoolers]

... can he do the Berd now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZKR-6jf_2o

[invisiblecoolers]

He is slipping fast now with 3 break back points for Nadal.

[CAS]

Ferrer breaks!

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000637155/polls_Roger_Federer_French_Open_2008_QF_celeb_922733_4333_853169_poll_xlarge.jpeg

[lydian]

I really cant abide watching the Nadal-Ferrer matches these days. Rafa seems to get into these weird passive passages where he allows Ferrer to dictate. I wonder if he loses concentration, its not an edifying spectacle of tennis. If he's not careful he may let David go one further today.

[CAS]

Nadal breaks back...

http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/130510/2013_05_09t183135z_1_cbre9481fgp00_rtroptp_2_tennis_men_madrid_federer-18oocuk.jpg?x=400&sig=w2N.qgZLTppgGNptrJK4Iw--

[invisiblecoolers]

I really cant abide watching the Nadal-Ferrer matches these days. Rafa seems to get into these weird passive passages where he allows Ferrer to dictate. I wonder if he loses concentration, its not an edifying spectacle of tennis. If he's not careful he may let David go one further today.

Poor O lyd, Nadal wins 6-0 if he doesn't lose focus, so good he losses focus a bit to give Ferrer some hope.

[JuliusHMarx]

WARNING - CHOKE OF MASSIVE PROPORTIONS UNDERWAY! PLEASE CLEAR THE AREA!

[invisiblecoolers]

Stunning backhand down the line to hold serve 5-2

[Haddie-nuff]

I really cant abide watching the Nadal-Ferrer matches these days. Rafa seems to get into these weird passive passages where he allows Ferrer to dictate. I wonder if he loses concentration, its not an edifying spectacle of tennis. If he's not careful he may let David go one further today.

Absolutely though I have great respect for Daveed but when you put two grinders together there is little tennis to show for it. I am always amazed that Rafa plays him at his game every time.. you have seen one match you have seen them all...boooooooooooooooooooooooooring Frankly I think Rafa looks like he feels the same. Yep thats me the all time Rafa fan..

[The Special Juan]

This Berd2.0 is like Feathers McGraw ... tough, no-nonsense.

I still cant believe how Djokovic lost that from 6-2 5-2...amazing.

I can't wait until he puts a red rubber glove on his head.

Berdy McGraw 2.0

That's frightening. Not coming to a kids TV channel near you.

[JuliusHMarx]

I really cant abide watching the Nadal-Ferrer matches these days. Rafa seems to get into these weird passive passages where he allows Ferrer to dictate. I wonder if he loses concentration, its not an edifying spectacle of tennis. If he's not careful he may let David go one further today.

Absolutely though I have great respect for Daveed but when you put two grinders together there is little tennis to show for it. I am always amazed that Rafa plays him at his game every time.. you have seen one match you have seen them all...boooooooooooooooooooooooooring Frankly I think Rafa looks like he feels the same. Yep thats me the all time Rafa fan..

I guess when you're pretty sure you can beat a guy in your sleep, you're tempted to try and prove it.

[JuliusHMarx]

Set point - double fault. Did anyone NOT see that coming?

[invisiblecoolers]

I really cant abide watching the Nadal-Ferrer matches these days. Rafa seems to get into these weird passive passages where he allows Ferrer to dictate. I wonder if he loses concentration, its not an edifying spectacle of tennis. If he's not careful he may let David go one further today.

Absolutely though I have great respect for Daveed but when you put two grinders together there is little tennis to show for it. I am always amazed that Rafa plays him at his game every time.. you have seen one match you have seen them all...boooooooooooooooooooooooooring Frankly I think Rafa looks like he feels the same. Yep thats me the all time Rafa fan..

I guess when you're pretty sure you can beat a guy in your sleep, you're tempted to try and prove it.

He is doing it now. David left the 2nd set off the hook, I won't be surprised if Rafa go on to win the match in st. sets which at one stage looked close to 5-0 in the 2nd.

[kingraf]

Lmao Ferrer couldnt beat Nadal if he got a 6-0 5*-0 40-0 headstart (he probably would, but I wouldnt be suprised)

[invisiblecoolers]

Some point in time Ferrer gonna get bored playing Rafa atleast on clay and would give up if such match is set on cards.

[The Special Juan]

Ah Daveed Is Daveed v Nadal more predictable than Federer v Staniel?

[CAS]

DDDAAVEEEEEDDD FFFFEEEERRRREEEERRR, Nadal just got Nadal'd

[The Special Juan]

[HM Murdock]

JHM - that's a great point about age 26!

The feeling I get comparing my expectations for Novak's season to what is actually unfolding is a bit like a bad experience on a dating website.

I saw a picture and expected a red hot bombshell.

Turns out the photo was a few years old and possibly airbrushed!

Are there any other tennis players with a GSOH looking for fun or maybe something more?

[invisiblecoolers]

Wat a play David, salutations man

[JuliusHMarx]

2nd time violation at 30-40. Automatic 2nd serve and a couple of missed putaways (fair play to one fantastic get from Ferrer).

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