To play, or not to play?!

Just wanted to ask a quick question...

After watching semi's this weekend a few things have stood out to me, certain players have either picked up small injuries, or played poorly, while others have turned out for their club and really proved a point.

George North has been nothing less than embarassing since selection, Farell looks like the Wales game has rocked him as Sarries crash out of everything, The Youngs brothers have been poor IMHO, Stevens was awfull today, Jenkins has returned to sit around in France, and JD2 has been average!

Oppsoing that I think players like Hartley, Parling, Croft, Sexton, Maitland and Cole have all been excellent.

So my question is why are certain players playing like they have one eye on the tour, and others throwing their bodies on the line for club victory? I can understand the likes of Best, Brown, and Owens really playing as they want to prove selection wrong, but the difference in performances between selected players, despite them all playing playoff rugby is baffling me, what are the reasons for this?

Because everyone's form is up and down all season. It stands to reason that after selection some would be up and some would be down. Just as it would in none Lions years.

Edit: of course a big part of it is in eye of the beholder. If you think someone is awesome they're only able to meet expectations or fail them. Converse for the guys people think aren't up to it.

Well from my perspective although I thought a few guys were lucky to be selected and others were nailed on they still confuse me!!!

I thought Hartley was very lucky, behind Youngs in England pecking order, and tbh I don't rate Youngs that highly, but Hartley today was excellent, and he generally is for Northampton.

Croft I thought was lucky but was immense V quins, not just the try but the work he did in the tight was excellent. Key moment for me was late on, game was one and he hits 3 defencive rucks hard, eyes a turnover and bounces off the floor to guard the ball under massive pressure!

Similarly I wouldve selected Launchbury over Parling, but Parling was a machine yesterday.

Opposing that I think Cole was excellent all 6N and yesterday didn't dissapoint, he is like a monster flanker around the park!

Also Sexton too, very talented clearly our best 10 option and returned from injury like he's never been away!

So why is North, Farell (who I have defended as touring on merit both) both struggling so badly?

The same thing applies to non elected players, dissapointed in Robshaw, but Best, Care and Brown have been excellent.

Fear............. some players have it, some don't.

Some Lion's choices get edgy and they've invested so much in getting the call that they begin to fret and double think their season after being selected. Next obstacle = getting on that bloody plane - caution, caution, angst, lack of concentration.

They just want to get on that plane (not realising that nothing will save them from injury if injury hits them either before they leave or just a few training days after they land in Australia.)

Others just operate on different instincts and have different goals. Some have unfinished business in their Leagues that they are serious about, that is important to them - and others just realise that trying to avoid trouble or daydreaming about Lions whilst playing for your club is probably two of the best ways to get that Lion's exit injury in the first place.

I know there is a lot of 'rubbish' about if you are good enough you are old enough but I think with Farrell he has been looking tired. He is very young to be playing at the level he has been for so long. Some players do but in reality its a freakish minority who mature that young.

I do think Tom Youngs is an interesting case. His lineout is liable to 'brainfarts' - which is why England lineout stats have been a bit dodgy. It does seem to be linked to the amount of muscle he has built up around his neck and shoulders to manage the scrummaging. What I think is interesting is, from an England point of view, that he is rated so highly despite the occasional line out issues. I'll leave it to others to argue the toss about his ability in the scrum, but his play in the loose is fantastic.

Nothing to do with the muscle around his neck, his lineout throwing is pretty good for tigers hence why they have the second best line out in the AP.

All the fuss over Norths move must have had a bit of affect on him mentally but he has been off form (or from his best) for sometime, Bowe stood him up a treat on Friday.

If a player has been named in the Lions squad then I do think it has to be hard not to have your eye on the tour now and hope you can avoid injury.

Wasn't it Shanklin who got injured last time out after being named? So maybe some players mind wanders others maybe it focuses their mind.

Tom Youngs is an interesting option compared to the other hookers on the tour. His lineout is not great but his loose play is far more developed. Yesterday he put a lot of big tackles that took the momentum out of Quins and made a couple of big breaks to set up key Tigers attacks. That's what England were after in the 6N and what I think the Lions will utilise off the bench. He's not quite in top form but was comfortably superior to the Saxons and England under 20 options Quins fielded.

Hartley did the basics nicely today and showed some good hands but the ground he made ball in hand was still well below what he showed a season or two ago. He needs to step up his carrying if he wants to overtake Youngs.

I wouldn't have taken Farrell, he doesn't suit quick rugby on hard pitches, he doesn't stand flat and his passing skills are average at best. Unless there's adverse weather conditions forecast down under I think Laidlaw, Madigan or Flood would have been a better option.

Flood - the version of a couple of years ago no doubt about it. He just doesnt quite seem to be doing it at the moment

lostinwales wrote:Flood - the version of a couple of years ago no doubt about it. He just doesnt quite seem to be doing it at the moment

i think flood is just forcing it at the minute, i think the summer off will do him the world of good!

nathan wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Flood - the version of a couple of years ago no doubt about it. He just doesnt quite seem to be doing it at the moment

i think flood is just forcing it at the minute, i think the summer off will do him the world of good!

I think that's bang on. He seems to be trying too hard at times

HammerofThunor wrote:

nathan wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Flood - the version of a couple of years ago no doubt about it. He just doesnt quite seem to be doing it at the moment

i think flood is just forcing it at the minute, i think the summer off will do him the world of good!

I think that's bang on. He seems to be trying too hard at times

In Floods defence though his distribution, threat of the line and the way he brings others in is still far superior to Farell at the minute, and Farells goal kicking has become sloppy of late, but Floods yesterday was awfull.

I think everyones talking about hard grounds but it will be mid winter, and there may be a mudfest or two, for my money at present though Biggar is looking a slightly stronger option to Farell, and Wilko stronger than both.

I think Floods holiday will help a lot too, and I hope he comes back stronger than ever.

Flood will benefit from the summer off (as will his garden). Lions could use a 10 with the ability to bring strike runners into the game right on the gain line. He wouldn't have taken the 10 shirt off of Sexton but would have been a goof squad option. Tigers to benefit next season instead.

Ah... who needs lions when you have a goof squad!!



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bedfordwelsh wrote:All the fuss over Norths move must have had a bit of affect on him mentally but he has been off form (or from his best) for sometime, Bowe stood him up a treat on Friday.

If a player has been named in the Lions squad then I do think it has to be hard not to have your eye on the tour now and hope you can avoid injury.

Wasn't it Shanklin who got injured last time out after being named? So maybe some players mind wanders others maybe it focuses their mind.

North played well on Judgement Day, the day after signing for the Saints, so that is not the excuse for his drop in form. However he did get a knock in the game against the Blues, and again against Treviso, and seemed to be not wanting to risk any injury against Ulster. HE almost waved Tommy Bowe past a few times. It is IMO not wanting to pick up further knocks. Shanks was on the red button commentry on Fri and said that the fear of injury will be going through some players heads, especially after Priest pulled out just before kick off injured, and he knows how heart breaking it is to miss out on touring due to injury.

Tom Youngs was very good against Quins in the recent Semi-Final.
Ben Youngs did nothing wrong either.
Quins were well and truely beat - it pains me to say.
Croft keeps getting better and better - scoring a try that wingers would be prowd of.

Admittedly the Sarries Lions contingent looked poor though.
Hartley actually showed some really good form and physicality that I hadnt seen from him pre-Lions selection.

Trust me, when these guys get on the plane and have their first real training session they will all be focused and ready.

They will all be hyped up and ready to go.

Hartley vs Youngs is odds on for the first fight in training then Biltong.

Well let them get it on, it can only fire them up. Isn't that what you want, bloody eyed, foaming at the mouth forwards?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Hartley vs Youngs is odds on for the first fight in training then Biltong.

Hartley vs anyone/everyone is a pretty safe bet for the first scrap.

Biltong wrote:Well let them get it on, it can only fire them up. Isn't that what you want, bloody eyed, foaming at the mouth forwards?

I thought Stevens was clean now?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:Well let them get it on, it can only fire them up. Isn't that what you want, bloody eyed, foaming at the mouth forwards?

I thought Stevens was clean now?