who's your countries most underrated player

by welshboii15 Sun 12 May 2013, 10:00 pm

Whos your choice for most underrated player in your side

Mine is aaron shinglar the man is a work horse

by sirtidychris Sun 12 May 2013, 10:18 pm

Chris Robshaw, the guy is utterly immense in every way but everyone can't wait for him to step aside so a sterotypical fetcher can take his position, despite the fact that he got more steals than all the southern hemisphere giants of openside play during last years autumn internationals. People just have it in there heads he isn't a 7 so no matter how well he plays, captains and how many man of the match awards he wins at international level, people are still hoping fraser, kvesic, saull, wallace even armitage will eventually shunt him out the side. Its the curse of the england captaincy, since Johnson retired we hate our captains and can't wait to get rid of them....Corry, Borthwick, Moody, Vickery, Tindall, we have liked them all until they get named captain then the fans and media turn straight away and can't get them out soon enough.

by theslosty Sun 12 May 2013, 10:19 pm

It's difficult to say from an Irish point of view since quite a lot of our players have underperformed at international level through their fault or otherwise, but then look so impressive for their provinces. Therefore I don't exactly blame outsiders for perhaps under-rating some of our players.

Out of the established, Australia-bound names I'd actually say Sean O'Brien, he is much more than a one-dimensional ball-carrier. He even throws into the lineout, that's what I call a utility forward! Perhaps Cian Healy as well because watching him this year I genuinely think he has a case to be the best loosehead in the world.

Out of the players on the fringe of the national team, Peter O'Mahony for me, he's very under-rated even inside Ireland.

Then maybe an under-rated provincial player would be James Coughlan or Darren Cave as both of them are very effective in the HEC without breaking onto the national side.

Ian Madigan and Tommy O'Donnell are players who are currently underrated because they have only been established at their clubs for the past season, although I suspect you will hear more about them in the future, certainly Madser.

Next year will be the time where Irish fans will either sing their players' praises louder than ever or will have to shut up, as we will see if Kidney really was the reason for the chasm between provincial and national performances.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 12 May 2013, 10:20 pm

Shingler faltered a bit this 6 Nations so time will tell, on current players I don't think Ian Evans gets anywhere near the credit he deserves after this 6 Nations.

by welshboii15 Sun 12 May 2013, 10:26 pm

I don't think we are going see the best of shingler because he plays in a position where we have strength in depth but I truly believe hes a work horse puts his body on line every game

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 10:30 pm

For me, with Irish rugby............... Damien Varley (Munster hooker).

There's just something about him that I think should have been more involved in an Irish side than he has been. Maybe it's attitude with the trademark Munster resolve to take no shhit even when taking it by the bucketload! I just like him a lot.

by RubyGuby Sun 12 May 2013, 10:31 pm

Sam Warburton thumbsup

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 10:44 pm

Who's he?

by RubyGuby Sun 12 May 2013, 10:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:Who's he?

Sam Warburton

by maestegmafia Sun 12 May 2013, 10:51 pm

welshboii15 wrote:I don't think we are going see the best of shingler because he plays in a position where we have strength in depth but I truly believe hes a work horse puts his body on line every game

Awarded the welsh regional most valuable player of the season award.

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 10:52 pm

RubyGuby wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Who's he?

Sam Warburton

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Sam Warburton

Warburton at the 2012 Grand Slam celebrations

Full name

Sam Kennedy-Warburton

Date of birth

5 October 1988 (age 24)

Place of birth

Cardiff, Wales

Height

188 cm (6 ft 2 in)

Weight

106 kg (16 st 10 lb)

School

Whitchurch High School

Rugby union career

Playing career

Position

Openside Flanker

Amateur clubs

Years

Club / team

2007–2009

Glamorgan Wanderers

Professional / senior clubs

Years

Club / team

Caps

(points)

2009–

Cardiff Blues

46

(20)

National team(s)

Years

Club / team

Caps

(points)

2009–
2013

Wales
British and Irish Lions

38

(10)

correct as of 16 Mar 2013 (UTC).

Sam Kennedy-Warburton (born 5 October 1988), commonly known as Sam Warburton, is a Welsh rugby union player. Warburton plays regional rugby for the Cardiff Blues and was first capped for Wales in 2009. In June 2011 he was named as Wales captain versus the Barbarians and subsequently in August 2011 he was named as the Wales captain for the 2011 Rugby World Cup. In April 2013 he was named the Lions' captain for the 2013 tour to Australia.[1]

Contents
[hide] 1 Early life
2 Career 2.1 2011 Rugby World Cup
2.2 2012 Six Nations

3 2013 Lions Tour of Australia
4 Welsh Caps
5 References
6 External links

Early life [edit]

Born in Wales to English parents,[2] Warburton has an older twin brother Ben who played at semi-professional level with Glamorgan Wanderers and is now a physiotherapist for the Newport Gwent Dragons Youth Academy, and an older sister Holly, a schoolteacher.[2][3] He attended Whitchurch High School and left with 3 A Levels.[2] As a youngster he was a keen football player and played for his school team alongside schoolmate Tottenham Hotspur and Wales left winger Gareth Bale.[4][5] He had a trial with local club Cardiff City at the age of 14 but chose to concentrate on rugby instead. He played on the junior teams of Rhiwbina RFC and briefly played for Glamorgan Wanderers RFC before joining the Cardiff Blues.[6]

Career [edit]

Warburton represented Wales at all levels, including being captain of the U18`s, U19`s and he was captain of the Wales Under-20 team for the 2007–08 season. He led Wales to the under 19`s and under 20`s world cup semi finals. Warburton made his debut for the senior Wales national rugby union team on 6 June 2009 versus the USA. Versatile enough to play anywhere in the backrow he made his regional debut for the Cardiff Blues away to Edinburgh in 2009 and his excellent form, including a man of the match display against Munster, earned him a spot on the Welsh summer tour of North America. On tour he had an impressive debut coming on as a replacement against the USA and he has been tipped to succeed Martyn Williams as the Welsh and Blues openside flanker.

On 18 January 2010 he was named in the 35 man Wales national Squad for the 2010 Six Nations tournament.[7] He scored his first international try against Italy in the 2011 Six Nations tournament.[8] Warburton captained Wales for the first time versus the Barbarians on 4 June 2011 at the age of 22 years and 242 days becoming Wales second youngest captain after Gareth Edwards. In a world cup warm-up against England, Warburton claimed man of the match with a superb display, dominating the breakdown. In August 2011 he was named as the Welsh Captain for the 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand in the absence of the injured Matthew Rees.[9]

2011 Rugby World Cup [edit]

Going into the tournament, Warburton's reputation was promoted by coach Warren Gatland, who claimed he was up with the best openside flankers in the world. In the opening match of the tournament against South Africa, Warburton became the youngest ever World Cup captain, facing experienced South African openside flanker Heinrich Brussow. While Wales lost 17-16, skipper Warburton won man of the match, winning his breakdown battle with Brussow in an outstanding display where he made 6 steals and making nearly a quarter of Wales' tackles (23 out of 99), as well as some superb runs. He continued his form in the match against Samoa, making a further 6 steals and 17 tackles as Wales won 17-10. Warburton played another good game against Namibia before being rested for the final half hour in the 81-7 game. Wales then booked their place in the quarter finals against Ireland with a 66-0 win over Fiji, in direct contrast to the loss of four years ago. Warburton was again at the heart of the performance making some steals and some good runs, and also scoring his second test try. At the end of this remarkable few weeks, Warburton was then voted the Player of Pool D by the fans; he had taken the tournament by storm, making the highest number of turnovers.[10] Wales then met Ireland in the quarter-final as Warburton faced the inform Irish openside flanker Sean O'Brien, in the 'battle of the opensides'. Wales reached the semi-final for the first time in 24 years with a 22-10 win, as Warburton continued his form, making 21 tackles and a number of turnovers, disrupting Ireland's ball. They were set to face an out of form French team in the semi final. When playing against France, Warburton became the second Wales player to receive a red card in a World Cup when he was sent off after 18 minutes by the Irish referee Alain Rolland for a dangerous tackle on Vincent Clerc.[11] Warburton admitted the offence at a disciplinary hearing in Auckland, when evidence was presented by the player, Gatland and Warburton's legal representative Aaron Lloyd. Despite the sending off, the Guardian newspaper, Brynmor Williams and Sir Ian McGeechan, the Lions legendary coach, named him player of the tournament.

2012 Six Nations [edit]

Warburton retained the captaincy for the Six Nations, despite Matthew Rees' return suggesting he would hold the accolade for many years. This Six Nations campaign however would be an injury disrupted one. In the opening match against Ireland he went off injured at halftime with a dead leg, but Wales managed to win 23-21. He missed the 27-13 win over Scotland but returned for the Triple Crown decider against England. Wales won 19-12 thanks a last gasp try by Scott Williams. Warburton was at his best making steals, carries, taking lineouts. But it was his try-saving tackle on Manu Tuilagi that caught the eye. The England centre seemed destined to score in the corner but Warburton launched himself low and grabbed his ankles to make a superb try saver.[12] As a result he was awarded man of the match. He once was injured however and missed the 24-3 win over Italy with a knee injury. He returned for the Grand Slam decider against France but was once again injured, this time his shoulder and was taken off at halftime. Wales prevailed though 16-9 to claim a grand slam. Warburton would then lift the trophy with one hand, since his other shoulder was in a sling. He later spoke of his guilt at going off at halftime and asked vice captains Gethin Jenkins and Ryan Jones to share the raising of the trophy. But the veterans said it was his moment.[13] The injury he sustained would rule him out for 6 weeks meaning he would be able to take his place on the Wales tour of Australia in June.

2013 Lions Tour of Australia [edit]

On the 30 April 2013 Warburton was named in a 37-man squad for the 2013 British and Irish Lions tour to Australia. He was announced captain for the tour by Welsh head coach Warren Gatland.[14][15]

Welsh Caps [edit]

Played 36, won 16, lost 20, drawn 0.

Cap

Date

Team

Position

Shirt Number

Home or Away

Tournament

Venue

Result

Score

Notes

1

6 June 2009

United States

Back Row

19

Away

Friendly

Toyota Park, Chicago

Win

48-15

Debut off the bench replacing injured Ryan Jones in 15th minute.

2

13 November 2009

Samoa

Flanker

7

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

17–13

First start for Wales

3

28 November 2009

Australia

Back Row

19

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

12–33

Substituted Dan Lydiate in 48th minute.

4

14 February 2010

Scotland

Back Row

19

Home

2010 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

31–24

Substituted Martyn Williams in 69th minute.

5

13 March 2010

Ireland

Back Row

19

Away

2010 Six Nations

Croke Park, Dublin

Loss

12–27

Substituted Martyn Williams in 65th minute.

6

20 March 2010

Italy

Flanker

7

Home

2010 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

33–10

First Six Nations start

7

5 June 2010

South Africa

Flanker

7

Home

Friendly

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

31–34

Played 75 minutes with a broken jaw.

8

6 November 2010

Australia

Flanker

7

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

16–25

9

27 November 2010

New Zealand

Flanker

7

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

25-37

10

4 February 2011

England

Flanker

7

Home

2011 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

19-26

11

12 February 2011

Scotland

Flanker

7

Away

2011 Six Nations

Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh

Win

6–24

Man of the Match

12

26 February 2011

Italy

Flanker

7

Away

2011 Six Nations

Stadio Flaminio, Rome

Win

16–24

First try for Wales

13

12 March 2011

Ireland

Flanker

7

Home

2011 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

19-13

14

19 March 2011

France

Flanker

7

Away

2011 Six Nations

Stade de France, Paris

Loss

28-9

Injured in 13th minute

15

4 June 2011

Barbarians

Flanker

7

Home

Friendly

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

28-31

First time captaining Wales

16

6 August 2011

England

Flanker

7

Away

Friendly

Twickenham, London

Loss

23-19

First time captaining Wales against International opposition.

17

13 August 2011

England

Flanker

7

Home

Friendly

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

19-9

Man of the Match

18

11 September 2011

South Africa

Flanker

7

Neutral

2011 Rugby World Cup

Regional Stadium, Wellington

Loss

16-17

Man of the Match

19

18 September 2011

Samoa

Flanker

7

Neutral

2011 Rugby World Cup

Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Win

17-10

20

24 September 2011

Namibia

Flanker

7

Neutral

2011 Rugby World Cup

Stadium Taranaki, New Plymouth

Win

81-7

21

2 October 2011

Fiji

Flanker

7

Neutral

2011 Rugby World Cup

Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Win

66-0

Second try for Wales

22

8 October 2011

Ireland

Flanker

7

Neutral

2011 Rugby World Cup

Regional Stadium, Wellington

Win

22-10

Leads Wales to first World Cup semi final since 1987.

23

15 October 2011

France

Flanker

7

Neutral

2011 Rugby World Cup

Eden Park, Auckland

Loss

9-8

Red carded for spear tackle on Vincent Clerc

24

3 December 2011

Australia

Flanker

7

Home

Friendly

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

24-18

25

5 February 2012

Ireland

Flanker

7

Away

2012 Six Nations

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Win

21-23

Injured and replaced by Justin Tipuric at half time.

26

25 February 2012

England

Flanker

7

Away

2012 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

12-19

Man of the Match

27

17 March 2012

France

Flanker

7

Home

2012 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

16-9

Injured and replaced by Ryan Jones at half time. Lifts Six Nations trophy as Wales win the Grand Slam

28

9 June 2012

Australia

Flanker

7

Away

Wales 2012 tour of Australia

Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

Loss

27-19

29

16 June 2012

Australia

Flanker

7

Away

Wales 2012 tour of Australia

Etihad Stadium, Melbourne

Loss

25-23

30

23 June 2012

Australia

Flanker

7

Away

Wales 2012 tour of Australia

Allianz Stadium, Sydney

Loss

20-19

Injured and replaced by Justin Tipuric in 28th minute.

31

10 November 2012

Argentina

Flanker

7

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

12-26

32

16 November 2012

Samoa

Flanker

20

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

19-26

Replaced Ryan Jones in 70th minute

33

24 November 2012

New Zealand

Flanker

7

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

10-33

34

1 December 2012

Australia

Flanker

7

Home

Autumn Internationals

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

12-14

35

2 February 2013

Ireland

Flanker

7

Home

2013 Six Nations

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Loss

22-30

36

23 February 2013

Italy

Flanker

20

Away

2013 Six Nations

Stadio Olimpico, Rome

Win

9-26

Replaced Ryan Jones in 70th minute

37

9 March 2013

Scotland

Flanker

7

Away

2013 Six Nations

Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Win

18-28

Man of the Match

38

16 March 2013

England

Flanker

6

Home

2013 Six Nations

Millenium Stadium, Cardiff

Win

30-3

First start at blindside flanker for Wales. Wales win Six Nations title with a record win over England.

References [edit]

1.^ "Lions 2013: Jonny Wilkinson out but Sam Warburton is captain". BBC Sport. April 2013.
2.^ a b c "The new Robson & Jerome". Rugby World. June 2011.
3.^ "Sam Warburton, Wales ferocious captain, is a home boy at heart". The Daily Telegraph. 27 January 2012.
4.^ "Pride at Cradiff school that developed Sam Warburton and Gareth Bale". guardian.co.uk. 13 October 2011.
5.^ "Old pal Bale drives Warburton on to wear Wales red". South Wales Echo. 22 May 2009.
6.^ "Feature: Sam Warburton's journey from Rhiwbina to the Wales captaincy". Western Mail. 4 February 2012.
7.^ Wales 2010 Six Nations Squad
8.^ "Italy 16-24 Wales". BBC Sport. 26 February 2011. Retrieved 7 April 2012.
9.^ "Sam Warburton leads Wales in New Zealand". BBC Sport. 22 August 2011. Retrieved 22 August 2011.
10.^ "Player of Pool D: Sam Warburton". Official Rugby World Cup Site. 4 October 2011.
11.^ "As It Happened: Wales 8-9 France". RTE Sport. 15 October 2011. Retrieved 17 October 2011.
12.^ "Sam Warburton defies physics and logic on his big day out at Twickenham". Daily Mail. 29 February 2012. Retrieved 29 February 2012.
13.^ "Wales skipper Sam Warburton speaks of his "guilt" at half time injury substitution". Wales Online. 20 March 2012. Retrieved 20 March 2012.
14.^ "A power play from Gatland: Lions coach opts for bulk in a squad built to bulldoze Australia". Daily Mail. 30 April 2013. Retrieved 1 May 2013.
15.^ "Sam Warburton fits bill in back row and as the captain". Guardian. 30 April 2013. Retrieved 1 May 2013.

Who?

by welshboii15 Sun 12 May 2013, 10:55 pm

Yea he won that but if you or anyone else we wouldn't have of thought of him to give it to

by GLove39 Sun 12 May 2013, 11:07 pm

For Scotland I'd say that Alex Grove is very underrated. Despite being very solid in defence, and having a decent pair of hands he's been continuously overlooked for the past 3 years now.

by lostinwales Sun 12 May 2013, 11:11 pm

I am not sure, but isn't Warburton that guy who kept on leading Wales to defeat against SH sides?

by maestegmafia Sun 12 May 2013, 11:17 pm

lostinwales wrote: I am not sure, but isn't Warburton that guy who kept on leading Wales to defeat against SH sides?

he played on the flank for our consecutive six nations wins.

by BamBam Sun 12 May 2013, 11:54 pm

Tom Wood

For him not to be on the Lions tour is an absolute scandal in my book, we will see his quality when he goes back to 6 consistently, amazing player

by TJ1 Sun 12 May 2013, 11:56 pm

Kelly Brown - cos he did not go with the lions.

by **Notch** Mon 13 May 2013, 12:00 am

Trimble!

by Hound of Harrow Mon 13 May 2013, 12:38 am

Anthony Allen.

I think he will join Fraser Waters in not getting as many England caps as he should.

by flyhalffactory Mon 13 May 2013, 1:11 am

For us Dan Parks was always under-rated

Tell you what that Gavin Henson chappie for Wales never gets a mention IMHO should get much more recognition for he has achieved in the game

by wanderingdragon Mon 13 May 2013, 1:14 am

Ceri Sweeney!

Only joking - his is a name that every Welsh fan always feared when they saw it on the team list!

by 100%beefy Mon 13 May 2013, 3:57 am

henson

by dallym Mon 13 May 2013, 4:42 am

Corey Jane or Sam Whitelock

by **Biltong** Mon 13 May 2013, 5:56 am

Willie le Roux.

He has sliky hands, great vision, pace, good feet an all round talented player, and he loves to attack from anywhere, everything Heyneke Meyer doesn't like in a player

by kiakahaaotearoa Mon 13 May 2013, 8:09 am

I'd have said Conrad Smith before last year Ashe finally got some recognition for his work primarily of organizing the defence and attack of the Nz back line. He has plenty of admirers but I don't think his contribution is truly valued. It's only when he doesn't play that we realize how much he does.

by t1000advancedprototype Mon 13 May 2013, 8:11 am

Henson isn't underrated. We all know his talents. Unlucky with injury, poorly managed and immature.

Most underrated for Wales:

Biggar
Hibbard
Shanklin
Byrne
Bevington

by **George Carlin** Mon 13 May 2013, 8:25 am

Scotland:

1. Most underrated by successive Scotland team managers

Alex Grove, Ben Cairns, Grant Shiells

2. Most underrated by non-jocks

Ryan Grant, Kelly Brown, Greig Laidlaw, Matt Scott

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 13 May 2013, 8:33 am

George Carlin wrote:Scotland:

1. Most underrated by successive Scotland team managers

Alex Grove, Ben Cairns, Grant Shiells

2. Most underrated by non-jocks

Ryan Grant, Kelly Brown, Greig Laidlaw, Matt Scott

Alex Grove I agree on, Grant Shiells not so sure. Greig Laidlaw I think is actually a bit over-rated by a lot of pundits, good at controlling a game not snipey enough around the fringes to be a good SH imo! I think Pyrgos has more potential.

by **George Carlin** Mon 13 May 2013, 8:50 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Scotland:

1. Most underrated by successive Scotland team managers

Alex Grove, Ben Cairns, Grant Shiells

2. Most underrated by non-jocks

Ryan Grant, Kelly Brown, Greig Laidlaw, Matt Scott

Alex Grove I agree on, Grant Shiells not so sure. Greig Laidlaw I think is actually a bit over-rated by a lot of pundits, good at controlling a game not snipey enough around the fringes to be a good SH imo! I think Pyrgos has more potential.

Shiells or Grant should have been in instead of His Chunkness a looooooooong time ago.

I am expecting T1000 to start a war with a new 'who is most overrated' thread very shortly.

by R!skysports Mon 13 May 2013, 9:06 am

Kelly Brown in my opinion

Has been the best 6 in the NH for the last year (Since coming back from injury), can cover 7 and 8 to almost the same standard as the specialists drooled over on these boards by certain countries, is becoming a great Captain

Puts is body on the line, game after game, and really does all the real rugby stuf (is not showy)

by t1000advancedprototype Mon 13 May 2013, 9:11 am

Not like me. A T-1000. Advanced prototype.
You mean more advanced than you are?
Yes. A mimetic polyalloy.
What the hell does that mean?
Liquid metal.

by munkian Mon 13 May 2013, 9:16 am

Warbs and especially Robshaw are not underated.

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Mon 13 May 2013, 9:40 am

I know hes had his day, but I could never understand why Simon Shaw didnt win more England caps.

by RubyGuby Mon 13 May 2013, 9:47 am

Here's 1 for each of the home nations - I dont think their contributions are ever appreciated

Borthwick
Morrison (his club performnces illustrate that he is a scottish Shanklin IMO - Unfortunately he has not had much around him to help at international level)
Paul James
DOC

thumbsup

by welshboii15 Mon 13 May 2013, 9:48 am

● I totaly agree on kelly brown the man is a beast who deserved a place on the lions.
● im not to sure about robshaw being underrated because he picked up the recognition he deserved by getting 2 or 3 MOTM in the 6 nations it was a shame he didn't go on the lions he earned that spot.
● I feel sorry for tom wood because he put in a massive game like the rest of the team against new zealand and now everyone who don't see him on a regular basis will be comparing him to that game and when he don't or they don't perform to that standard they are judging him to be a bad player
These are just my opinions.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 May 2013, 9:56 am

At the moment it has to be Owen Farrell. For a young player puts in consistently good performances for the majority of his games. As with all youngsters has had a dip in form and his critics are now using it to 'demonstrate' he's rubbish.

Regular for club, country and now picked for the Lions but all down to his Dad obviously. Not the greatest player but definately underrated.

by RubyGuby Mon 13 May 2013, 9:57 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:At the moment it has to be Owen Farrell. For a young player puts in consistently good performances for the majority of his games. As with all youngsters has had a dip in form and his critics are now using it to 'demonstrate' he's rubbish.

Regular for club, country and now picked for the Lions but all down to his Dad obviously. Not the greatest player but definately underrated.

I take it you missed the game yesterday thumbsup

by GunsGerms Mon 13 May 2013, 10:00 am

For Ireland it is without any doubt Jamie Heaslip.

Constantly scape-goated for Ireland's poor performances yet he remains one of the most consistant, reliable and hard working players in the last 5 years for Ireland.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 May 2013, 10:00 am

RubyGuby wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:At the moment it has to be Owen Farrell. For a young player puts in consistently good performances for the majority of his games. As with all youngsters has had a dip in form and his critics are now using it to 'demonstrate' he's rubbish.

Regular for club, country and now picked for the Lions but all down to his Dad obviously. Not the greatest player but definately underrated.

I take it you missed the game yesterday

I did miss it! But seriously dips in form happen with youngsters. Launchbury/Lawes came onto the scene all guns blazing but his form dropped a bit and now some people are looking to the next big thing. Players form in all sports are blown out of proportion. Farrell isn't a world beater but he's certainly better than mediocre as some make out.

by thebluesmancometh Mon 13 May 2013, 10:06 am

Wales have 2 key players who have flown under the radar for 12 months now, and if they get injured will effect the side more than most...

Ian Evans has been the best lock in world rugby for 12 months, and has nearly carried the Welsh lineout threat, and grunt with differing pertners over and over, he has played with debutants in Coombs, Lou Reed, and limited players like Charteris and made all 3 look good.

Mike Phillips should be wrapped in cotton wool, the more teams underrate him and try to exploit him the more it plays into our hands, our attack is slow, it's considered and it's organised, and he is the lynch pin that holds it all together, Wales simply do not concede tries to NH teams because of Mike Phillips.

I will probably get slated for that selection, but Gatland clearly feels the same way as me, Phillips executes Gatlands game plan better than any 9 on the planet could, and I certainly would not swap him for any 9 around (although I would gladly swap Williams for 100% of international 9's for some competitioin for his shirt!

by GunsGerms Mon 13 May 2013, 10:08 am

I think Philips might actually turn out to be the stand out player of the Lions tour. I can see him giving the grossly over rated Genia a torrid time.

by RubyGuby Mon 13 May 2013, 10:09 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:At the moment it has to be Owen Farrell. For a young player puts in consistently good performances for the majority of his games. As with all youngsters has had a dip in form and his critics are now using it to 'demonstrate' he's rubbish.

Regular for club, country and now picked for the Lions but all down to his Dad obviously. Not the greatest player but definately underrated.

I take it you missed the game yesterday

I did miss it! But seriously dips in form happen with youngsters. Launchbury/Lawes came onto the scene all guns blazing but his form dropped a bit and now some people are looking to the next big thing. Players form in all sports are blown out of proportion. Farrell isn't a world beater but he's certainly better than mediocre as some make out.

I'm not disagreeing with you No7 but you can hardly call Farrell underated - Maybe the opposite is true and that is why he's having some difficulty at present. He's always been efficient but he does lack vision and dynamism at the moment to take him to the next level thumbsup

by dummy_half Mon 13 May 2013, 10:13 am

welshboii15 wrote:● I totaly agree on kelly brown the man is a beast who deserved a place on the lions.
● im not to sure about robshaw being underrated because he picked up the recognition he deserved by getting 2 or 3 MOTM in the 6 nations it was a shame he didn't go on the lions he earned that spot.
● I feel sorry for tom wood because he put in a massive game like the rest of the team against new zealand and now everyone who don't see him on a regular basis will be comparing him to that game and when he don't or they don't perform to that standard they are judging him to be a bad player
These are just my opinions.

Good grief - I find myself in almost total agreement with Welshboii Shocked

Brown and Robshaw could have done very little more over the last year to demonstrate they are very fine international players. Brown absolutely should have been picked for the Lions ahead of either Lydiate or Croft.

Robshaw - Agree with SirChris up the thread, that he is a much better specialist 7 than many give him credit for. Just because he's a little bigger than some of the pure 'fetchers' is not sufficient to say that they are better overall than him. Again, unlucky not to make the Lions tour, but Tipuric's form in the 6Ns (especially against England) made him impossible to leave out and then Warburton's selection as captain meant that the second spot of a 7 that can cover 6 was taken.

Wood - Unlucky that Lancaster persisted with selecting him at 8 through the 6Ns. While not awful there, he doesn't really have the skills at the scrum or the absolute power as a ball carrier to play there as a full time specialist. As a 6 though, he's a fantastic hybrid of hard grafter and Tom Croft-type open field player. Set up a fantastic try for Northampton last week with a spin move that most 3/4s would have been happy with.

by RubyGuby Mon 13 May 2013, 10:18 am

Wood was my first choice 6 for the Lions test team - Lancaster has done him no favours by moving him around but his performaces at 6 should have merited inclusion thumbsup

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 May 2013, 10:19 am

RubyGuby wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:At the moment it has to be Owen Farrell. For a young player puts in consistently good performances for the majority of his games. As with all youngsters has had a dip in form and his critics are now using it to 'demonstrate' he's rubbish.

Regular for club, country and now picked for the Lions but all down to his Dad obviously. Not the greatest player but definately underrated.

I take it you missed the game yesterday

I did miss it! But seriously dips in form happen with youngsters. Launchbury/Lawes came onto the scene all guns blazing but his form dropped a bit and now some people are looking to the next big thing. Players form in all sports are blown out of proportion. Farrell isn't a world beater but he's certainly better than mediocre as some make out.

I'm not disagreeing with you No7 but you can hardly call Farrell underated - Maybe the opposite is true and that is why he's having some difficulty at present. He's always been efficient but he does lack vision and dynamism at the moment to take him to the next level

Don't think his vision is lacking, passing comes unstuck sometimes, but I think his kicking (place and from hand) are a better than most. He doesn't break the line enough etc I agree. i place him in the underrated category because of the people who say he only gets a game because of his Dad; that's rubbish imo.

by the-goon Mon 13 May 2013, 10:27 am

theslosty wrote:It's difficult to say from an Irish point of view since quite a lot of our players have underperformed at international level through their fault or otherwise, but then look so impressive for their provinces. Therefore I don't exactly blame outsiders for perhaps under-rating some of our players.

Out of the established, Australia-bound names I'd actually say Sean O'Brien, he is much more than a one-dimensional ball-carrier. He even throws into the lineout, that's what I call a utility forward! Perhaps Cian Healy as well because watching him this year I genuinely think he has a case to be the best loosehead in the world.

Out of the players on the fringe of the national team, Peter O'Mahony for me, he's very under-rated even inside Ireland.

Then maybe an under-rated provincial player would be James Coughlan or Darren Cave as both of them are very effective in the HEC without breaking onto the national side.

Ian Madigan and Tommy O'Donnell are players who are currently underrated because they have only been established at their clubs for the past season, although I suspect you will hear more about them in the future, certainly Madser.

Next year will be the time where Irish fans will either sing their players' praises louder than ever or will have to shut up, as we will see if Kidney really was the reason for the chasm between provincial and national performances.

POM is probably one of the most OVER-rated players in Ireland. He is a promising young player with a gerat future but isn't there yet. If Ferris is fit he is the 5th best Back row Ireland have. The ceiling is very high and he has plenty to learn.

Under rated: Look no further than Chris Henry, Andrew Trimble or Darran Cave, I'm no Ulster fan but these guys don't seem to get any praise outside Ulster and DK certainly didn't rate them...

by Guest Mon 13 May 2013, 10:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:At the moment it has to be Owen Farrell. For a young player puts in consistently good performances for the majority of his games. As with all youngsters has had a dip in form and his critics are now using it to 'demonstrate' he's rubbish.

Regular for club, country and now picked for the Lions but all down to his Dad obviously. Not the greatest player but definately underrated.

I take it you missed the game yesterday

I did miss it! But seriously dips in form happen with youngsters. Launchbury/Lawes came onto the scene all guns blazing but his form dropped a bit and now some people are looking to the next big thing. Players form in all sports are blown out of proportion. Farrell isn't a world beater but he's certainly better than mediocre as some make out.

I'm not disagreeing with you No7 but you can hardly call Farrell underated - Maybe the opposite is true and that is why he's having some difficulty at present. He's always been efficient but he does lack vision and dynamism at the moment to take him to the next level

Don't think his vision is lacking, passing comes unstuck sometimes, but I think his kicking (place and from hand) are a better than most. He doesn't break the line enough etc I agree. i place him in the underrated category because of the people who say he only gets a game because of his Dad; that's rubbish imo.

From an England perspective I think Farrell is a useful guy to have on the bench - you can bring him on with 15/20 minutes left and be confident that he'll close out the game, make his kicks at goal, make his tackles and not make too many mistakes, but he doesn't have the complete game he should do to be starting at international level. Given that he IS starting at international level, there's just no way you can describe him as underrated.

Its difficult to see how he can be make the Lions on his own merit without his dad's influence, especially as one of only 2 10s.

by GunsGerms Mon 13 May 2013, 10:30 am

POM is the most over rated player in Ireland. Cant fault his desire and work rate but he is very ineffective at International level.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 May 2013, 10:35 am

mawhis, Your view is exactly why I say he's underrated. He is there on his own merit not his Dads. The same thing used to be said about Frank Lampard when he played under his Dad and Uncle. I guess it'll take a few stand out performances from him again to make people realise he is actually a good player and not there due to nepotism. Again I think there are better more rounded players and I expect him to be pushed hard by Burns but it remains that a lot of people underrate him. there's another thread going saying we're only taking one ten on tour!

by RubyGuby Mon 13 May 2013, 10:39 am

No7 - I think we're all agreeing here and maybe its about semantics - The fact that he is 1st choice 10 for his country and 10 for the Lions suggests he is highly rated. I don't buy his fathers influence stuff as his performnces have shown that he has the ability to control a game at the highest level. His form just appears to have taken a dip. With the Lions he is likely to have far more options around him and this may well benefit him thumbsup

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