England v Barbarians, 26 May

First topic message reminder :

England v Barbarians
26 May 2013
Kick off: 13:00 local
Twickenham Stadium

Match officials to be announced.

Might get a thread started about this now that the full Ba-bas squad has been announced.

1. Teams:
Barbarians:
Elliot Daly
Takudzwa Ngwenya
Casey Laulala
Mike Tindall (captain)
Timoci Nagusa
James Hook
Dwayne Peel
Andrea Lo Cicero
Matthew Rees
James Johnston
Jim Hamilton
Marco Wentzel
Alessandro Zanni
Jonathan Poff
Imanol Harinordoquy

Replacements:
Schalk Brits
Duncan Jones
Paul James
Dean Mumm
Sam Jones
Dimitri Yachvili
Nick Evans
Rowan Varty

England
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins)
14. Christian Wade (Wasps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
11. Marland Yarde (London Irish)
10. Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
9. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
1. Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
2. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, captain)
3. David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
5. Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
6. Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7. Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)

Replacements
16. David Paice (London Irish)
17. Joe Marler (Harlequins)
18. Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
19. Kearnan Myall (Unattached)
20. Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)
21. Haydn Thomas (Exeter Chiefs)
22. Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
23. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)

2. England squad

Forwards

Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Rob Buchanan (Harlequins), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Kearnan Myall (Sale Sharks), David Paice (London Irish), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby), David Wilson (Bath Rugby).

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), David Strettle (Saracens), Haydn Thomas (Exeter Chiefs), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Christian Wade (London Wasps), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Marland Yarde (London Irish).

3. Barbarians squad

Backs

Jared Payne (Ulster), Rowan Varty (DeA Tigers & Hong Kong), Takudzwa Ngwenya (Biarritz Olympique & USA), Timoci Nagusa (Montpellier & Fiji), Joe Rokocoko (Bayonne & New Zealand), Elliot Daly (London Wasps), James Hook (Perpignan & Wales), Nick Evans (Harlequins & New Zealand), Kahn Fotuali'i (Ospreys & Samoa), Dwayne Peel (Sale Sharks & Wales), Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz Olympique & France).

Forwards

Duncan Jones (Ospreys & Wales), BJ Botha (Munster & South Africa), Paul James (Bath Rugby & Wales), Martin Castrogiovanni (Leicester & Italy), Andrea Lo Cicero (Racing Metro 92 & Italy), Matthew Rees (Scarlets & Wales), Leonardo Ghiraldini (Benetton Treviso & Italy), Schalk Brits (Saracens & South Africa), Marco Wentzel (London Wasps & South Africa), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby & Scotland), Dean Mumm (Exeter Chiefs & Australia), Samu Manoa (Northampton & USA), Francois Louw (Bath Rugby & South Africa), Sam Jones (London Wasps), Alessandro Zanni (Benetton Treviso & Italy), Sergio Parisse (Stade Francais & Italy), Imanol Harinordoquy (Biarritz Olympique & France).

The baa baas are poor...but it's a breath of fresh air seeing this young England team playing with attacking flair...adventure, quick hands etc....as opposed to Barritt and Farrell...

Eastmond is a doppelganger for a young Jason Robinson

You have to question some of the Baabaas selections

They are a team that is supposed to score tries, but in that case why select a pack that can't protect the ball and pick players like Tindall in the backs?

Length of the field by Wade

33 - 0

Still on for a cricket score with 18minutes to go.

And that's Christian Wade, people

Who is playing flyhalf then?

40 - 0

Conversion to come

Still can't believe we haven't brought Danny Care on this tour

Agree about Care CJ, would have loved to see some quick taps here today

Looks like Eastmond and 36 are playing first receiver between them?

If Baabaas get this, the match looks pretty similar score to New Zealand's innings at Headingly

Barbarian score their try from a rolling maul

And they were very lucky that try was awarded IMO

40 - 5

Come on Nev, make this a bit more respectable...

Streaker!

These commentators are idiots

BamBam wrote:Streaker!

Erica Roe - as the song goes, those were the days my friend

England butchering a chance there

Screamer of a try for Eliot Daly. He has his own point to prove to Lancaster- very classy player.

The Baabaas best player is English

He should be in the England squad to South America, no question about it.

Cumbrian wrote:He should be in the England squad to South America, no question about it.

Yes but at 13 or 15?

Both.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Almost unwatchable.The BaaBaas existence is at severe threat.Players look to be not interested in the main.
I would not pay to watch this stuff.

Yes it is a bit dissapointing with the BaaBaas at the moment. But too be honest it is more to do with England not giving them any ball to play with.

Terribly unlucky

The Baabaas decided to start playing in the last 5 minutes

Yachvilli made such a huge difference.

Well done England, very impressed with some of the English youngsters

Notch wrote:Screamer of a try for Eliot Daly. He has his own point to prove to Lancaster- very classy player.

I like the way Barnes said he has a bright future for England, without suggesting which of the half dozen other full backs he favours should be replaced.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Notch wrote:Screamer of a try for Eliot Daly. He has his own point to prove to Lancaster- very classy player.

I like the way Barnes said he has a bright future for England, without suggesting which of the half dozen other full backs he favours should be replaced.

I've said before, Lancaster will put out a team of Fullbacks like this:

15- Foden
14- Brown
13- May
12- Daly
11- Abendanon
10- Goode

Well done England, but bluddy hell what a shocking game.

The barbarians were bluddy aweful and I mean shocking, they couldn't have a succeccful passage of play without dropping the ball. I mean thank got Yachvilli came on for them because they would have been even more smashed otherwise.
Not really a good test for the England youngsters to start on, I bet they thought it was a walk in the park.
The talent in the barbarinas is obvious but the coching team must be played, half the team looked tired after 10 minutes and usually class players like harinodaquay, Hamilton, naqasuca (you know who I mean) looked lazy. Really what was the coahing staff doing for them before the game. Nothing by the looks.
They need to improve for next week otherwise the lions are going to actually hurt them physically and mentally.

Burns looked comfortable and exciting at 10. Granted there wasn't a huge amount of pressure but he's sparkling at the moment.

Please Mr Lancaster, make sure he's the regular 10 if he's in this sort of form rather than the tough but dull Mr Farrell...

A big Headache now for Stewart Lancaster regards to the 10 shirt. Flood, Burns, Farrell. will that be the pecking order from now on?

Twelvetrees had a great game as well today. Looking good in the squad now.

Lets hope that this team can do well in Argentina.

A good game by England and a good result in the end.

Where on earth have you got the idea that Flood will be Lancaster's first choice from?

What was the point of this excercise if the Baabaas are this poor?

thomh wrote:Where on earth have you got the idea that Flood will be Lancaster's first choice from?

After watching Sarries game the other day, i doubt that Farrell will be first choice. dont you?

Biltong wrote:What was the point of this excercise if the Baabaas are this poor?

I watched the first 25 minutes then decided to change the water pump on the Mk 2 Jag - No disrespect you can only play whats in front of you but if the Barbarians as a concept is to continue then we have to have an element of professionalism attached to it. Disjointed, poorly coached and lacking in motivation and a game plan. Water pump went on ok but I fxxked up the crankshaft pulley and damper so now I'm really pixxed.

Good to know you are mechanically inclined.

They have been on the car for over 50 years and are difficult to remove; it's a common problem when removing them but it doesn't make me fel any better - Parts are about £250-300 exchange units - Happy Bank Holiday!!!

Thought England kicked too much with all the possession and pretty easy momentum that they had. Wigglesworth for me was very unimpressive, the game was calling out for some quick taps and breaks and he gave nothing. The Ex 9 that came on added far more energy. Joseph too was fairly anonymous for most of the game, billy out shone him massively.

Otherwise what a performance from Wilson! My MoM. Good to see Marler back rampaging as well, looked a lot comfier then Corbs.

JJ been pretty anonymous all season to be honest.

Wilson had a Frak stormer. Don't follow Bath rugby too much, but jesus where did that performance come from? We need a second quality tight head prop, like the situation at LHP where Marler, Vunipola and Corbs are all pretty decent players in their own right. Wilson to be has seemed like a throw on sub, used when the game is clearly won to prevent injury to Cole.

A good hit out for the youngsters by all accounts (didn't see the game). But the Baabaas were selected from a knackered bunch of players from NH clubs.

Yup, the English players had a long season too, but had more to play for. EPS places up for grabs next season. Good to see the backs getting on the scoresheet.

My one worry is that this young, new-look England team doesn't receive a proper test this summer. The Barbarians were poor, the South America XV will probably be likewise and Argentina are resting a host of their top players before the Rugby Championship.

For my money I'd bring in Ben Youngs and Manu Tuilagi for Wigglesworth and Joseph for my first team back line and have Care, Farrell +1 on the bench. That plus 1 could be almost anyone, Foden apparently had a great game yesterday or one of May, Eastmond or Daly could come I into that spot.

Some very bright options. I think in the pack it was great to see Corbs and Morgan back, both were greatly missed in the Six Nations and their involvement will go some way to rectifying some of the issues we had that culminated in that Wales game.

Fantastic game by the looks of it. Well done England.

Some superb natural skill from Wade, Yard and Daly. Burns looking the consummate general at ten. Another fine performance by Twelvetrees. Kvesic looked fantastic in national colours too.

Lets hope we see these young and exciting players get opportunities to show more of what they have proved they can do at club level in an an England shirt in Argentina and in the Autumn against the big teams.

Looks like Farrell, Ashton, Barritt, Tuilagi, Robshaw, Goode and a few others might not be so secure in their positions.

robbo277 wrote:My one worry is that this young, new-look England team doesn't receive a proper test this summer. The Barbarians were poor, the South America XV will probably be likewise and Argentina are resting a host of their top players before the Rugby Championship.

For my money I'd bring in Ben Youngs and Manu Tuilagi for Wigglesworth and Joseph for my first team back line and have Care, Farrell +1 on the bench. That plus 1 could be almost anyone, Foden apparently had a great game yesterday or one of May, Eastmond or Daly could come I into that spot.

Some very bright options. I think in the pack it was great to see Corbs and Morgan back, both were greatly missed in the Six Nations and their involvement will go some way to rectifying some of the issues we had that culminated in that Wales game.

yes Corbs & Morgan made a big difference though what a run by Davy Wilson! As you say it was a shame to see the BaaBaas in such disarray so it's difficult to truly judge the quality.
But I like the way Burns & 12Ts interlinked & at last nice to see true pacy skilful wingers.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

robbo277 wrote:My one worry is that this young, new-look England team doesn't receive a proper test this summer. The Barbarians were poor, the South America XV will probably be likewise and Argentina are resting a host of their top players before the Rugby Championship.

For my money I'd bring in Ben Youngs and Manu Tuilagi for Wigglesworth and Joseph for my first team back line and have Care, Farrell +1 on the bench. That plus 1 could be almost anyone, Foden apparently had a great game yesterday or one of May, Eastmond or Daly could come I into that spot.

Some very bright options. I think in the pack it was great to see Corbs and Morgan back, both were greatly missed in the Six Nations and their involvement will go some way to rectifying some of the issues we had that culminated in that Wales game.

yes Corbs & Morgan made a big difference though what a run by Davy Wilson! As you say it was a shame to see the BaaBaas in such disarray so it's difficult to truly judge the quality.
But I like the way Burns & 12Ts interlinked & at last nice to see true pacy skilful wingers.

But what was promising was the skill level...!

The natural ability to take a line and trust instinct.

I thought the England captain, Webber did a fantastic job

Don't agree it was a poor game. The BaaBaas may have lacked intensity and purpose but, pfft, you still have to put them away. This was the best attacking performance I've seen from an England team since the final pre-2003 RWC game @ HQ when they destroyed France. The kids played with no nerves against an impressive looking line up of household names.

One swallow etc, I accept. But an RWC 2015 backline of Youngs, Burns, Wade, Yarde, 36, Manu, Foden, backed up by eg Care, Eastmond and Brown excites me!

We'll know more after the summer, but really that game showed us little that we didn't already know.

A friend mentioned that England should play a Prem Barbarians 15 rather then this lot as they'd be more up for it?

maestegmafia wrote:Fantastic game by the looks of it. Well done England.

Some superb natural skill from Wade, Yard and Daly. Burns looking the consummate general at ten. Another fine performance by Twelvetrees. Kvesic looked fantastic in national colours too.

Lets hope we see these young and exciting players get opportunities to show more of what they have proved they can do at club level in an an England shirt in Argentina and in the Autumn against the big teams.

Looks like Farrell, Ashton, Barritt, Tuilagi, Robshaw, Goode and a few others might not be so secure in their positions.

Farrell will be there or there abouts until someone else comes along. He may get better but Burns must be the short term future
Tuilagi will be around until form or injury does for him. He is a very special player - sorry you'll have to put up with him for a long time to come
Robshaw is tricky but he has done everything that has ever been asked of him There is competition however but I think he is safe for a while
But the others - yep - they certainly could be dropping out of contention.

Sometimes, no matter how well a player has done - someone else comes in and you realise you havnt missed the original guy at all.

I'd add that I wouldnt be surprised if Brown ends up in the same boat - no matter how well he does at league level I think Foden and possibly Tait (or even Daly in a year or 2) will, when on form, be better options at test level.

Trev

Wilson impressed me in a way he hasn't before at international level, with his scrummaging as well as his loose play. I think all the forwards looked recent actually, Webber's performance possibly putting more pressure on Hartley's bench spot, Launchbury continuing where he left off in the Six Nations and Atwood, Kvesic and Johnson all justifying their selections.

Hopefully some of these players can really kick on in South America and get rewarded with EPS places.

Agreed on that stuff robbo - I know I'm jumping ahead of myself given this thread is about the Barbarians game but I'd love to see an EPS such as the one below for the AI's.

Prop - Corbs, Vunipola, Marler, Cole, Wilson
Hooker - Youngs, Webber
Second row - Parling, Launchberry, Attwood, Slater
Flanker - Robshaw, Wood, Croft, Kvesic, Haskell
Number 8 - Morgan, Vunipola
Scrum half - Youngs, Care, AN Other - let the others separate themselves this summer
Fly half - Burns, Farrell, Flood
Centre - Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Barritt, Lowe - though Eastmond or Tomkins seem more likely currently
Wing - Wade, Yarde, May
Full back - Brown, Foden, Goode

All things considered that looks a balanced and very promising squad to my eyes. I'd also love to see Tait and Allen get another look in but at who's expense could be a difficult question! That's a slightly larger squad than the EPS usually is, but the squad inevitably seems to grow with injury replacements hanging around once the players they replaced are fit again and such things.

king_carlos wrote:Agreed on that stuff robbo - I know I'm jumping ahead of myself given this thread is about the Barbarians game but I'd love to see an EPS such as the one below for the AI's.

Prop - Corbs, Vunipola, Marler, Cole, Wilson
Hooker - Youngs, Webber
Second row - Parling, Launchberry, Attwood, Slater
Flanker - Robshaw, Wood, Croft, Kvesic, Haskell
Number 8 - Morgan, Vunipola
Scrum half - Youngs, Care, AN Other - let the others separate themselves this summer
Fly half - Burns, Farrell, Flood
Centre - Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Barritt, Lowe - though Eastmond or Tomkins seem more likely currently
Wing - Wade, Yarde, May
Full back - Brown, Foden, Goode

All things considered that looks a balanced and very promising squad to my eyes. I'd also love to see Tait and Allen get another look in but at who's expense could be a difficult question! That's a slightly larger squad than the EPS usually is, but the squad inevitably seems to grow with injury replacements hanging around once the players they replaced are fit again and such things.

I would have Dylan Hartley, Joe Simpson, Kyle Eastmond and Chris Aston in, and Toby Flood, George Lowe and Alex Goode out from your squad. Notwithstanding form over the summer/injuries etc, my side for the first AI would be

15. Brown
14. May
13. Tuilagi
12. Twelvetrees
11. Yarde
10. Burns
9. Youngs

1. Corbisiero
2. Webber
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Wood
7. Kvesic
8. Morgan

16. Youngs 17. Marler 18. Wilson 19. Attwood 20. Haskell 21. Care 22. Farrell 23. Wade

Alex Goode can't have enjoyed watching Foden, Tait and Brown much this weekend. Physically they're on a different level.