Jerzy with the shirt rip, I like his game but his attitude not so much, is he the new bad boy of tennis?

I think that Janowicz is a very good young talent, I think he has the weaponery and athleticism to make some serious waves in the future; grandslam type waves. He scored a nice victory over Tsonga, but his shirt ripping ala Djokovic was a bit much. Before I get taken to task for hypocrisy I also didn't like Novak's shirt rip against Stan. Furthermore, his comments about Federer and Djokovic for an upstart in the game is to say the least presumptuous. His odd meltdown at the AO as well is another in a building laundry list of attitude issues that seem to be arising. That being said I really do think he is maybe the top prospect of this period and I personally find him to be among the most watchable players on tour. What I like is that he is a big man that can really move, he has good feel at net, a big forehand, lethal droppers. At the end of the day we watch these guys for their game and maybe a little controversy will build attention, plus he is only 22 years old so I hope he matures as well. Still I get a sense that he can be a big star in the future, and some guys play better as the villain, ala jimmy Connors. Yet I think he will make it harder on himself with this kind of attitude, he is painting a giant target on his own back and he will make many enemies. Still I am a bit torn in that I liked Connors and I liked his propensity to stir up controversy. Yet, one big difference Connors had the results to back it up, so if he wants to be this way he better make sure the game backs up his mouth.

So if Djoko does it its acceptable but not poor Jerzy

Djoko's shirt ripping stunts were more annoying in my view and he rightly deserves the heel status of ATP and Jerzy could be added as his new body guard.

I didn't say it was ok for Djoko, I criticized Djoko's shirt rip on this thread and on others. In fact, Djoko probably deserves more of the blame he set the trend. I could understand it after the AO final against Nadal not so much after the Wawrinka match. I actually like Jerzy if you bother reading the thread. You know your smiley and emoticon routine is getting old, it doesn't cover up for your unitinteresting commentary that is the equivalent of eating wonder bread while drinking distilled water. If you don't have anything to say buzz off and take Jean Luc Picard Emoticon with you.

I get accused of talking about Djokovic an only Djokovic, funny I post on Jerzy and you direct it towards Djokovic.

I quite like him, it's nice that he's adding a bit of spice to the tour at times. We know that not all the players get on, but it's all very cloak and dagger most of the time. Janowicz just doesn't give a hoot and says what he thinks! I remember a few of us on here saying that we preferred rivalries with a bit of an edge to them, so in that respect it's good that someone isn't afraid to say what they really feel, stops things becoming sterile. It's fine having gentlemen at the top of the game, and we're lucky to have our top few players being such good ambassadors for the sport, but you need those contrasting personalities as well.

I agree with you on his game socal, a work in progress definitely but he has a lot of natural attributes. I'm constantly shocked by his feel around the net given his size, and as you say his drop shots are magnificent. If he digs in and keeps working hard, he could be a staple in the top 10 in future years. I always thought that Stepanek was the bad boy of tennis! Or at the very least, the guy we loved to hate

Big test against Gasquet today for Jerzy, we'll see how he gets on. Reechard didn't exactly look in sparkling form against Dimi, so the upset could be on the cards.

Is he really the future though? Dimi, and Raonic for that matter have shown a little more promise imo. More importantly, the guy is 6'8. Can he physically stand up to the demands of Grand Slam tennis? I dont think he is physically compatible with the demands of modern tennis. As for the shirt ripping, tennis just needs to outlaw these spray-on Shirts, theres no other way to take them off other than ripping them off, and in the heat of the moment, why wouldnt you want to be seen shirtless? Sampras use to do it... its just that he had an actual shirt, so no ripping off was necessary.

kingraf wrote:Is he really the future though? Dimi, and Raonic for that matter have shown a little more promise imo. More importantly, the guy is 6'8. Can he physically stand up to the demands of Grand Slam tennis? I dont think he is physically compatible with the demands of modern tennis. As for the shirt ripping, tennis just needs to outlaw these spray-on Shirts, theres no other way to take them off other than ripping them off, and in the heat of the moment, why wouldnt you want to be seen shirtless? Sampras use to do it... its just that he had an actual shirt, so no ripping off was necessary.

Lets hope its a fad that doesnt catch on... erm..imagine Stepanek or Davydenko shirt ripping oh no !!!
Some of them are best keeping their clothes on

Silver wrote:I quite like him, it's nice that he's adding a bit of spice to the tour at times. We know that not all the players get on, but it's all very cloak and dagger most of the time. Janowicz just doesn't give a hoot and says what he thinks! I remember a few of us on here saying that we preferred rivalries with a bit of an edge to them, so in that respect it's good that someone isn't afraid to say what they really feel, stops things becoming sterile. It's fine having gentlemen at the top of the game, and we're lucky to have our top few players being such good ambassadors for the sport, but you need those contrasting personalities as well.

I agree with you on his game socal, a work in progress definitely but he has a lot of natural attributes. I'm constantly shocked by his feel around the net given his size, and as you say his drop shots are magnificent. If he digs in and keeps working hard, he could be a staple in the top 10 in future years. I always thought that Stepanek was the bad boy of tennis! Or at the very least, the guy we loved to hate

Big test against Gasquet today for Jerzy, we'll see how he gets on. Reechard didn't exactly look in sparkling form against Dimi, so the upset could be on the cards.

Yes Silver I agree fully. I mean we all say that we want a player with an edge, some controversy, and some personality but we are quick to criticize a player when he does anything different from the norm or that we don't like. Gasquet is another player I find to be very watchable. Jerzy is one of those players that I can watch regardless of the opponent because he does bring an interesting style and perspective to the game.

Also love his touch and feel in the forecourt. It is very rare as you said for a guy that big, who hits the ball that big to have such nice touch and feel. I also am quite impressed at how he moves around the court for a man of that size. The mix of power, touch, and speed is a pretty potent combination.

kingraf wrote:Is he really the future though? Dimi, and Raonic for that matter have shown a little more promise imo. More importantly, the guy is 6'8. Can he physically stand up to the demands of Grand Slam tennis? I dont think he is physically compatible with the demands of modern tennis. As for the shirt ripping, tennis just needs to outlaw these spray-on Shirts, theres no other way to take them off other than ripping them off, and in the heat of the moment, why wouldnt you want to be seen shirtless? Sampras use to do it... its just that he had an actual shirt, so no ripping off was necessary.

You touched on a good point Kingraf, the thing you always worry about is the ability of the big guys when it comes to injuries and to conditioning. I am not saying for sure that he will dominate at slams or win slams, if he does the hard yards I think he has the potential to do it. I think a player of his type who is tall, moves well, has power but also feels comfortable in the forecourt is the future of what we will see in tennis. I don't mean all tennis players are going to 6'6 and above. Just that we will see the average size creep up modestly over the years and we will see a lot more tall guys with power who can really move.

I think the average height may creep up, but of all the 6'6+ players on tour (Except JMDP) the best Slam performance is a QF.

Physiologically, its really difficult to be a man mountain and win slams. Not to mention that there are more financially stable sports out there for 6'6 people. Ice hockey, Cricket (bowling), basketball, NFL Football, football (Goalie & strikers). Tall people have the physiological disadvantage of reaching top speed later (chasing down balls), and not being able to maintain it for as long (chasing down said balls four hours into a GS QF). This is not to mention their propensity to break down more often. Of course Janowicz may break the mould, and he did seem to physically keep up with Ferrer in Paris, although that match barely went over the 90 minute mark. But I think he would still be more the exception to the rule.

Kingraf, that is what people said about the point guard position in basketball till Magic Johnson at six foot nine ran the greatest fast break in history. And I agree that tall guys have some natural disadvantages. The biggest one I see after the movement issue is difficulties in returning because they don't have that explosive first step and get jammed very easy on body serves when they try to take it early as well. That being said, the difference I see with Jerzy is that he actually does a lot of things for a big man that he shouldn't be able to do athletically. The big question is will he breakdown physically, with the right kind of intense physio regiment if he puts in the work he can minimize these drawbacks. Not eliminate them completely but cover them effectively enough where his advantages come to play.

Yes, true, but using guys like Magic is like using Bill Gates to discuss the advantages of dropping out of college. They merely serve to prove the contrary rule. Even now, with the NBA as big as ever, the top five point guards are still relatively normal sized.

JJ is fun to watch, and he seems rather "spaced-out" but who knows, he might have a Slam in him, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

socal1976 wrote:I didn't say it was ok for Djoko, I criticized Djoko's shirt rip on this thread and on others. In fact, Djoko probably deserves more of the blame he set the trend. I could understand it after the AO final against Nadal not so much after the Wawrinka match. I actually like Jerzy if you bother reading the thread. You know your smiley and emoticon routine is getting old, it doesn't cover up for your unitinteresting commentary that is the equivalent of eating wonder bread while drinking distilled water. If you don't have anything to say buzz off and take Jean Luc Picard Emoticon with you.

I get accused of talking about Djokovic an only Djokovic, funny I post on Jerzy and you direct it towards Djokovic.

If you get bored of my comments just stop reading it, between no idea how you fail to understand that people in this forum get tired of reading your threads of same topic time and again in different forms and headings , and the best part is you complain about it

Haddie-nuff wrote:

kingraf wrote:Is he really the future though? Dimi, and Raonic for that matter have shown a little more promise imo. More importantly, the guy is 6'8. Can he physically stand up to the demands of Grand Slam tennis? I dont think he is physically compatible with the demands of modern tennis. As for the shirt ripping, tennis just needs to outlaw these spray-on Shirts, theres no other way to take them off other than ripping them off, and in the heat of the moment, why wouldnt you want to be seen shirtless? Sampras use to do it... its just that he had an actual shirt, so no ripping off was necessary.

Lets hope its a fad that doesnt catch on... erm..imagine Stepanek or Davydenko shirt ripping oh no !!!
Some of them are best keeping their clothes on

You can't say that on Stepanek after all he had best tennis chicks to boost upon and impress , but yes like you I cannot figure out either what in him impressed all those chicks.

Yes ic I think I might have some idea it must have been HIS LARGE-----bank balance

Yeah, but the women he pulls arent exactly poor. So I suspect its actually his large... ****

I dont know W H A T you mean

I hear its an anagram for 'snipe'

Just watching the Gasquet-Janowicz tiebreak. Every time Gasquet made a horrible error, one of them was even a mishit, a very agressive cheer from Janowicz, sometimes while looking not far from this opponent. Silence from Janowicz when he wins due to his own good play. A lack of class and I hope he loses. He seems like a snipe to me, to be frank.

And then he called Gasquet's shot out when it actually hit the line.

Good play from Janowicz. Some of his shots were so little margin for error, forehands down the line.

At least he gives me somthing to cheer for - whoever his opponent is - and shakes me out of my neutral stupor.

Henman Bill wrote:Just watching the Gasquet-Janowicz tiebreak. Every time Gasquet made a horrible error, one of them was even a mishit, a very agressive cheer from Janowicz, sometimes while looking not far from this opponent. Silence from Janowicz when he wins due to his own good play. A lack of class and I hope he loses. He seems like a snipe to me, to be frank.

And then he called Gasquet's shot out when it actually hit the line.

Yes, he did the same thing in the Tsonga match as well, Tsonga would hit a shot into the net or make a routine error and he would fist pump and flex very aggressively. Not pleasant HB, I am hoping that some of the rougher edges will be mellowed out with age, after all none of use were finished products at 22, let alone at 32. Still he is lacking in grace and class at this stage but he does have the fire. Don't spoil the result as that is what I am planning on watching when I get off work today.

What do you think of his talent overall though, do you think he could have grandslam potential?

Henman Bill wrote:Good play from Janowicz. Some of his shots were so little margin for error, forehands down the line.

At least he gives me somthing to cheer for - whoever his opponent is - and shakes me out of my neutral stupor.

That is part of it isn't it, that is what we say we miss from the Connors, mac, nastase days with tennis being so cordial and gentlemanly now days some of that watchability either to root for or against someone.

kingraf wrote:Yeah, but the women he pulls arent exactly poor. So I suspect its actually his large... ****

Kingraf, I know Haddie set you up for that but can we please never talk about Stepanek's willy again.

But on another post you made, I think my magic analogy is pertinent lets remember we are talking about the best of the best here in tennis as well. Janowicz is already a top 30 talent, now we got to see if he has that next gear and the work ethic to get to the next stage. I am waiting for the NBA type of athlete to show up in the tennis game. The guy who is tall, powerful, and agile as all hell. Of course playing in the NBA is more lucrative with guaranteed contracts so on and so forth. But I think a player like Janowicz, maybe not him particularly per se will become more prevalent.

In regards to Raonic or Dimitrov, I actually think in term of raw athleticism and shots I would rate Jerzy above the other two, although the other two are highly talented as well. My two concerns with Jerzy is does he have the work ethic and will his body break down?

kingraf wrote:Yeah, but the women he pulls arent exactly poor. So I suspect its actually his large... ****

I suspect the same as well, otherwise why would they have not chosen big boys in top 10 to Steph?

Well, for me its pretty simple (also I will try not discuss Radek's anatomy again)- I suspect that having had a taste of the big time, he will have the work ethic, the more dialikeable players always do. I think his body breaks down. Like I said, around the world, there are many other sports which are more suitable for big guys. But, regardless of that, I still dont think tennis is suitable for 6'6+ players. Im shocked guys like Berdych have made it that far, but he is in my opinion the glass ceiling. Other than LeBron, big basketballers miss too many regular season games for me to think otherwise about their physical disadvantages.

I cant see a basketballer-type ranked number 1. I mean KD is great and all, but he plays what 30 minutes a game? Times that by maybe 100 games, thats 3000 minutes on court, vs A guy like Roger playing 90 games at say, 100 minutes a game. thats 9000 minutes on court. Even allowing that ballers probably exert more energy per minute. Its still a different animal. So even if Basketballers took up tennis, I still think that big guys are naturally handicapped in tennis. Tennis agility and basketball agility are two different things. Its one thing evading a big guy, but its a complete other to chase down a drop shot having been wrong footed.

Socal, I think this is the second time I have seen him play. The first time might have been a couple of months back, maybe Indian Wells, and he was useless. I actually don't rate Janowicz for the very top, I don't think he has enough technique and control, more guts and raw power. Obviously his technical ability is very high compared to lower ranked players I just don't see him quite at the very top. I could be wrong though. I have only watched him play for an hour or two, ever.

He is playing well.

As for telling the score, I don't think you can reasonably expect to avoid it on a forum but just for you I will go and discuss it on the match thread (if there is one).

Commentators think Jano is a snipe but don't want to say it.

So tennis might have an aggressive, fiery, antagonistic a***hole in the sport.

Good. The tour is too nice. It needs a villain or two.

Danny_1982 wrote:So tennis might have an aggressive, fiery, antagonistic a***hole in the sport.

Good. The tour is too nice. It needs a villain or two.

You were the person I thought of when I mentioned forum posters wanting some spice on tour. I remember your comments on the Novak - Fed rivalry, Danny

kingraf wrote:Well, for me its pretty simple (also I will try not discuss Radek's anatomy again)- I suspect that having had a taste of the big time, he will have the work ethic, the more dialikeable players always do. I think his body breaks down. Like I said, around the world, there are many other sports which are more suitable for big guys. But, regardless of that, I still dont think tennis is suitable for 6'6+ players. Im shocked guys like Berdych have made it that far, but he is in my opinion the glass ceiling. Other than LeBron, big basketballers miss too many regular season games for me to think otherwise about their physical disadvantages.

I cant see a basketballer-type ranked number 1. I mean KD is great and all, but he plays what 30 minutes a game? Times that by maybe 100 games, thats 3000 minutes on court, vs A guy like Roger playing 90 games at say, 100 minutes a game. thats 9000 minutes on court. Even allowing that ballers probably exert more energy per minute. Its still a different animal. So even if Basketballers took up tennis, I still think that big guys are naturally handicapped in tennis. Tennis agility and basketball agility are two different things. Its one thing evading a big guy, but its a complete other to chase down a drop shot having been wrong footed.

Fair points it is a different animal and I think fitness wise they can do it and agility but like you I worry about the longterm durability of a big man like that playing on the tour. Certainly, though I think Janowicz is a rare physical specimen and we will see how he does. But look at Berdych to me the movement and his health have always been good so you do have those that buck the trend, I think he lacks technique and bottle in crucial situations. His glass ceiling has little to do with his size but with his mindset in my opinion.

Silver wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:So tennis might have an aggressive, fiery, antagonistic a***hole in the sport.

Good. The tour is too nice. It needs a villain or two.

You were the person I thought of when I mentioned forum posters wanting some spice on tour. I remember your comments on the Novak - Fed rivalry, Danny

Haha, I do love a bit of spice in my sport silver it's true.

I just saw the line call incident vs Gasquet and its a bit naughty. But I hope he continues in this way. Maybe the way to beat these tremendous players at the top of the game is to p**s them off!

Henman Bill wrote:Socal, I think this is the second time I have seen him play. The first time might have been a couple of months back, maybe Indian Wells, and he was useless. I actually don't rate Janowicz for the very top, I don't think he has enough technique and control, more guts and raw power. Obviously his technical ability is very high compared to lower ranked players I just don't see him quite at the very top. I could be wrong though. I have only watched him play for an hour or two, ever.

He is playing well.

As for telling the score, I don't think you can reasonably expect to avoid it on a forum but just for you I will go and discuss it on the match thread (if there is one).

Thanks HB, like you said I think it isn't a fair analysis to make a decision with just a couple of hours of watching the guy play. He does have very good feel in the forecourt as opposed to the other top guys and moves rather cat like for his size those are the two factors I see beyond the poweron its own that make me think he has big things in his future. Now that you dislike him, I think you will watch him more often! LOL. So give me your updated opinion the next time he does something big.

Danny_1982 wrote:

Silver wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:So tennis might have an aggressive, fiery, antagonistic a***hole in the sport.

Good. The tour is too nice. It needs a villain or two.

You were the person I thought of when I mentioned forum posters wanting some spice on tour. I remember your comments on the Novak - Fed rivalry, Danny

Haha, I do love a bit of spice in my sport silver it's true.

I just saw the line call incident vs Gasquet and its a bit naughty. But I hope he continues in this way. Maybe the way to beat these tremendous players at the top of the game is to p**s them off!

I'd like to see him in his first match with Federer, is he going to have the balls or the nerve to act like this against the great man himself and possibly draw the ire of all the fans courtside. And I wonder what fed will have to say, well Jerzy as limited as his CV is right now seems to already be spicing things up.

Danny- mate Ive been waiting for seven years for someone to kick Nadals water bottles!!

kingraf wrote:Danny- mate Ive been waiting for seven years for someone to kick Nadals water bottles!!

I'd pay good money to see that. Well, actually I'd pay nothing... But I'd enjoy it. Kick his bottles and make HIM wait. Then beat him and say at the net "I guess ur injured right? You only lose when ur injured"

And I'd like him to beat Murray on clay and say at the net "aww, don't like clay Andy? Is that why you were muttering to yourself ALL match you miserable git".

Then he could beat Novak and say "not long enough in the oxygen chamber this week Novak? No shirt ripping for you today. Get over yourself!"

And then Roger... Mind you, what criticism could he throw at Roger?

If you beat him at Wimbledon, you could tell him, "No cardigan for you"

Thanks everyone for not ruining my evenings entertainment and telling me the result good show fellas. I will have to say I enjoyed that match a great deal two wonderful shot makers. At this stage two of my top 5 favorite players players on tour so it was a bit bittersweet to see Richie G go down in a heartbreaker. Looking good, two top ten wins in a row for Jerzy. I really like Jerzy's fire, yes he maybe an ahole but it is a lot of fun to watch him play. The thing that attracts me to him is the combination of movement, feel, and power for a man that really shouldn't move like that at six foot eight inches in height. Along with Monfils he might be tennis' first NBA style athlete despite Kingraf's noted commentary.

I can't wait to watch him play Federer now. 2 dollars for anyone who can guess who I will be rooting for. Can't wait to see this thing unfold, of course Federer has to be the favorite and he is playing really well after a bit of a spring slump. Still Jerzy has the game to unsettle anyone if he is on fire. If he can stay healthy I think we are in for big things from this youngster.

But Monfils serves to prove my point, doesnt he? Gases in five setters. Either injured or about to be. With all that said, I think Jerzy could upset Fed today. Like I said big players limitations only really come to the fore in GS because of their extended nature. Here he just needs to win two sets. Federer doesnt always play well on slow clay and Janowicz can just hit through. I would expect Fed to win, but there is a real posaiblity that Jerzy can win.

Danny_1982 wrote:Kick his bottles and make HIM wait. Then beat him and say at the net "I guess ur injured right? You only lose when ur injured"

And I'd like him to beat Murray on clay and say at the net "aww, don't like clay Andy? Is that why you were muttering to yourself ALL match you miserable git".

Then he could beat Novak and say "not long enough in the oxygen chamber this week Novak? No shirt ripping for you today. Get over yourself!"

kingraf wrote:If you beat him at Wimbledon, you could tell him, "No cardigan for you"

Oh, I would LOVE someone to do any of these things!

Have you seen White Men Can't Jump? I'd love to see a couple of players go off like that on a tennis court.

"Hey chump. Yeah you, potato head. You know who I'm talking about. If that's your best game, you'd better grab that free towel and head home."

"You call that defence? Are you gonna give me a game? Am I gonna get a little competition? I got better things to do with my Saturday."

Yep Oh for the Nastasi/Connors/McEnroe characters... the bad boys of tennis it was fun watching Nastasi playing with an umbrella in one hand and a racket in the other..Troiki´s McEnroe moment yesterday was brilliant

Well, I am very enthused about Jerzy's development. Federer served unbelievably I don't have the exact stats but Roger had to serve in 70s today for first serve percentage, with a crazy amount of aces and no doubles and Jerzy really should have made this a three setter. Jerzy is a fast court player who one year ago was playing in the challengers. For him to go on clay a surface that doesn't really suit his game, to play Federer this tight when Roger turns in a virtuoso serving performance is a big deal. Lets remember the trajectory of this guys career and that really he didn't break onto the scene until the very end of 2012 and that he has very few matches at the top flight level. Federer serves the way he did tonight he beats almost anyone on tour and yet Jerzy served for the second set.

At one point I was stunned by this guys virtuoso ability, which frankly I rate right up there if not ahead of dimitrov the other class act of this age group. He drop shoted Federer with a good but not great dropper (he also hit some great ones) Fed gets it and drives it back at him deep he flicks an overhead over Fed's head, not an easy thing to do. Fed does great and hits half way decent shot and then Jerzy closing down the net picks it off with a supple drop volley.

My concern with him is injuries and fitness at his size. I like the fact that he ripped his shirt off for one reason, it let me get a look at his physique and muscle development. And he is ripped and fit as a fiddle, you can't pinch an inch the saying goes. That should help in this regard. He also needs to work on his shot selection, his returns, his slice backhand is a meatball as well, and he needs to incorporate the moonball, occasionally. The high heavy roller is an important variation shot even for flat ball strikers like Jerzy. Fed uses it when he is in trouble as do all players. Jerzy seems to hit the ball hard and then hit it harder. That kind of repetive pace from the baseline grooves your opponent and also robs you of time to get back to the center of the court. Don't get me wrong I am not saying he goes Rafa in terms of net clearance. But he needs to occasionally put some air under the ball when he is in trouble. When you are in trouble if you hit flat an hard back at your opponent when pulled wide you better hit a winner. Because if you don't he will use your pace redirect it into the open court for a winner. When he gets dragged out wide he has a tendency to not put any air under the ball, that deep heavy looper is needed to give you time to get back to the center of the court and it is a difficult ball to do anything with as long as it lands deep.