Question re Ireland possible bid for rwc in 2023

First topic message reminder :

Just idly thinking about nothing and wondered given that the final has to be in a 60000 capacity stadium would they use Croke Park? I understand that the Aviva capacity can't be increased further and think its around the 50000 mark? But would the IRFU not want to host the final at their stadium?

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:I tell you what, we'll come play the next Lions tour in Europe, then you give us the RWC.

I just don't get the reasoning that the tournament should be in SA because Saffers don't get to go to travel to tournaments that much unlike in the NH where supporters can travel. Having it in Ireland would actually give them a worthwhile opportunity to do exactly that.

SA have a lot of top rugby on view in SA (Rugby Championship, Super Rugby, Currie Cup & Touring Side every year + Lions Tour ever 12 years).

Travelling away to a world cup would be something different for them!

So what you are saying is we must fork out 6000 pounds every four years to travel 10000 kms to go watch the RWc and have a tournament every 40 years where you guys can fly 500 miles to anywhere in the UK to watch the RWC every 8 years.

Hmmm, seems fair to me.

We can't base SA's projected figures on the 95 RWC. It was the amateur era and rugby knew little about marketing, revenue etc etc.

Concerning whether or not SA could fill out smaller matches... I think the fifa world cup proved that. The tournament was a big success, the 3rd biggest in history in terms of attendance with ave. of near 50k per game. Rugby is better supported in terms of attendance then football in SA, they would get very similar figures at a RWC.

Games like Uruguay vs. Ghana (with l imagine little home fans) sold out 85K in Soccer city. I managed to haul my wife to a number of games... and she is certainly a bigger rugby fan... she hardly knows anything about football but like the rest of the nation they were swept with the tournament.

SA has 8 +50,000 stadiums all held in metropolitan areas of well over a million each and a further 5 stadiums over 40,000.

SA won't be relying on a certain number of stadiums to put in the hard yards... you can't have 20 matches in one or two stadiums especially in a European autumn, the pitches would be destroyed.

Ireland have what 6 over 40,000? That would mean if they wanted to keep a high level of attendance you would have to over rely on fewer number of stadiums which would cause problems for hotel frequency (more fans based in same areas) and pitch quality control.

I don't doubt Ireland can put on a RWC but I don't think its realistic to think they could compete with a RWC hosted in either ENG, FRA or SA. Those nations have double the number of stadiums and far larger infrastructure (hotels etc). More likely any RWC would be similar to that of NZ... profitable yes, but no cash cow and after the uncertain gamble of the RWC2019 I still maintain it would be prudent to head towards one of the bigger beasts.

Pro SA argument:

Even if you base it on the 95 world cup with more games in current world cup we would get close to Australia's numbers. Even then - SA have about 8 stadiums with more capacity than Irelands premier stadium, which we didn't have in 95.

SA rugby supporting population is at about 20% of the whole and we still probably sell out all of our stadiums every week. I can't remember being at Newlands when it wasn't sold out, and I never went for the big games there.

At Loftus it sometimes doesn't fill, but they are not limited to just 50K people in the stadium.

The only game I went to when I felt it was under-supported was the 2012 Currie Cup Final (Not the premier rugby in SA), and there was 48K supporters there with me in Moses Mabida.

If it is anything like the Fifa pricing all the stadiums will fill out. We fill out 85K for Soccer City when the All Blacks come and the All Blacks only play in Gauteng and we play then once or twice a year at ticket prices more expensive than most of the Fifa World Cup.

The NZ RWC was not about profit - it was given to them as it was probably the last time they could host it while still being profitable. There was a lot of articles in NZ newspapers as this was their last time to be able to host a world cup alone.

Everything is already ready for a SA RWC. How is Ireland doing? Will they build more stadiums? Will they make stadiums larger? Will they be able to fill those stadiums afterwards?

fa0019 wrote:Guns

I wasn't suggesting Ireland hosted a tournament on their own... but they did host a tournament jointly in 91... just as much as Scotland, Wales, England and France did.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales have a combined population of 15MM.... SA have a population of 50MM.... by that you could argue that SA should host 3 times as many tournaments as Ireland, Scotland and Wales put together.

SA is a big rugby market. They are on of the biggest financial contributors to the coffers of the IRB and geographically they are rather isolated.

In football Europe supplies most of the top teams at the world cup with Brasil and Argentina filling in the rest... yet Europe only ever get the tournament once every 2 world cups.... a lot less than their competitive share.

Surely you don't believe a world cup should go

Europe, SA, Europe, AUS, Europe, Argentina, Europe, NZ, Europe, Europe

thats just a little selfish.

To those in Europe I doubt people care that much if a tournament is in England, Wales or Ireland. Its still only £100 return whereever you live and whatever anyone on here says... the UK is one country, should the UK be able to host the tournament 3 times over AUS' or SA's 1? Come on. All you will be doing is appeasing the same fans all the time. Personally I don't think you actually believe that.

SA has moved on a lot more since 1995 (the last amateur tournament). I'm sure you could concede that SA would provide greater match attendance than any Ireland hosting... given SA has the highest domestic attendances of any rugby nation in the world. Ireland would probably be able to produce higher ticket costs, but then again, expenses would also be significantly higher. NZ struggled to contain all the fans during the RWC... does Ireland have the capacity from a tourist basis? SA certainly does.

I myself would not un-welcome an Ireland solely tournament... but I don't think they should get one as much as SA or AUS for example should do. Those countries are near continent size and have populations that far outstrip Irelands and since SA last hosted a tournament we have seen RWCs in Europe in 99, 07 and soon to be in 15 I think it would be fair to give SA another shot.

IN Rugby terms the UK is 4 countries. Their is also the fact that Ireland is not a crime ridden third world country leaving parts of Limerick aside

tecphobe wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Guns

I wasn't suggesting Ireland hosted a tournament on their own... but they did host a tournament jointly in 91... just as much as Scotland, Wales, England and France did.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales have a combined population of 15MM.... SA have a population of 50MM.... by that you could argue that SA should host 3 times as many tournaments as Ireland, Scotland and Wales put together.

SA is a big rugby market. They are on of the biggest financial contributors to the coffers of the IRB and geographically they are rather isolated.

In football Europe supplies most of the top teams at the world cup with Brasil and Argentina filling in the rest... yet Europe only ever get the tournament once every 2 world cups.... a lot less than their competitive share.

Surely you don't believe a world cup should go

Europe, SA, Europe, AUS, Europe, Argentina, Europe, NZ, Europe, Europe

thats just a little selfish.

To those in Europe I doubt people care that much if a tournament is in England, Wales or Ireland. Its still only £100 return whereever you live and whatever anyone on here says... the UK is one country, should the UK be able to host the tournament 3 times over AUS' or SA's 1? Come on. All you will be doing is appeasing the same fans all the time. Personally I don't think you actually believe that.

SA has moved on a lot more since 1995 (the last amateur tournament). I'm sure you could concede that SA would provide greater match attendance than any Ireland hosting... given SA has the highest domestic attendances of any rugby nation in the world. Ireland would probably be able to produce higher ticket costs, but then again, expenses would also be significantly higher. NZ struggled to contain all the fans during the RWC... does Ireland have the capacity from a tourist basis? SA certainly does.

I myself would not un-welcome an Ireland solely tournament... but I don't think they should get one as much as SA or AUS for example should do. Those countries are near continent size and have populations that far outstrip Irelands and since SA last hosted a tournament we have seen RWCs in Europe in 99, 07 and soon to be in 15 I think it would be fair to give SA another shot.

IN Rugby terms the UK is 4 countries. Their is also the fact that Ireland is not a crime ridden third world country leaving parts of Limerick aside

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

Biltong wrote:

tecphobe wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Guns

I wasn't suggesting Ireland hosted a tournament on their own... but they did host a tournament jointly in 91... just as much as Scotland, Wales, England and France did.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales have a combined population of 15MM.... SA have a population of 50MM.... by that you could argue that SA should host 3 times as many tournaments as Ireland, Scotland and Wales put together.

SA is a big rugby market. They are on of the biggest financial contributors to the coffers of the IRB and geographically they are rather isolated.

In football Europe supplies most of the top teams at the world cup with Brasil and Argentina filling in the rest... yet Europe only ever get the tournament once every 2 world cups.... a lot less than their competitive share.

Surely you don't believe a world cup should go

Europe, SA, Europe, AUS, Europe, Argentina, Europe, NZ, Europe, Europe

thats just a little selfish.

To those in Europe I doubt people care that much if a tournament is in England, Wales or Ireland. Its still only £100 return whereever you live and whatever anyone on here says... the UK is one country, should the UK be able to host the tournament 3 times over AUS' or SA's 1? Come on. All you will be doing is appeasing the same fans all the time. Personally I don't think you actually believe that.

SA has moved on a lot more since 1995 (the last amateur tournament). I'm sure you could concede that SA would provide greater match attendance than any Ireland hosting... given SA has the highest domestic attendances of any rugby nation in the world. Ireland would probably be able to produce higher ticket costs, but then again, expenses would also be significantly higher. NZ struggled to contain all the fans during the RWC... does Ireland have the capacity from a tourist basis? SA certainly does.

I myself would not un-welcome an Ireland solely tournament... but I don't think they should get one as much as SA or AUS for example should do. Those countries are near continent size and have populations that far outstrip Irelands and since SA last hosted a tournament we have seen RWCs in Europe in 99, 07 and soon to be in 15 I think it would be fair to give SA another shot.

IN Rugby terms the UK is 4 countries. Their is also the fact that Ireland is not a crime ridden third world country leaving parts of Limerick aside

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

Please view it as a sly dig at Limerick rather than south Africa Irish people are very touchy about being lumped in with UK there was several long term disagrements on that issue . So people would be just as safe in Hillbrow as they would be in Hillsbourough ?

tecphobe wrote:

Biltong wrote:

tecphobe wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Guns

I wasn't suggesting Ireland hosted a tournament on their own... but they did host a tournament jointly in 91... just as much as Scotland, Wales, England and France did.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales have a combined population of 15MM.... SA have a population of 50MM.... by that you could argue that SA should host 3 times as many tournaments as Ireland, Scotland and Wales put together.

SA is a big rugby market. They are on of the biggest financial contributors to the coffers of the IRB and geographically they are rather isolated.

In football Europe supplies most of the top teams at the world cup with Brasil and Argentina filling in the rest... yet Europe only ever get the tournament once every 2 world cups.... a lot less than their competitive share.

Surely you don't believe a world cup should go

Europe, SA, Europe, AUS, Europe, Argentina, Europe, NZ, Europe, Europe

thats just a little selfish.

To those in Europe I doubt people care that much if a tournament is in England, Wales or Ireland. Its still only £100 return whereever you live and whatever anyone on here says... the UK is one country, should the UK be able to host the tournament 3 times over AUS' or SA's 1? Come on. All you will be doing is appeasing the same fans all the time. Personally I don't think you actually believe that.

SA has moved on a lot more since 1995 (the last amateur tournament). I'm sure you could concede that SA would provide greater match attendance than any Ireland hosting... given SA has the highest domestic attendances of any rugby nation in the world. Ireland would probably be able to produce higher ticket costs, but then again, expenses would also be significantly higher. NZ struggled to contain all the fans during the RWC... does Ireland have the capacity from a tourist basis? SA certainly does.

I myself would not un-welcome an Ireland solely tournament... but I don't think they should get one as much as SA or AUS for example should do. Those countries are near continent size and have populations that far outstrip Irelands and since SA last hosted a tournament we have seen RWCs in Europe in 99, 07 and soon to be in 15 I think it would be fair to give SA another shot.

IN Rugby terms the UK is 4 countries. Their is also the fact that Ireland is not a crime ridden third world country leaving parts of Limerick aside

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

Please view it as a sly dig at Limerick rather than south Africa Irish people are very touchy about being lumped in with UK there was several long term disagrements on that issue . So people would be just as safe in Hillbrow as they would be in Hillsbourough ?

Any country has areas that are unsafe, anywhere in the world.

A client of mine (black businessman) in conversation (we often talk about the situations in SA) tells me a tourist or even us Afrikaners are safer in Soweto (our largest black township) than the inhabitants there.

If you go to an automated teller machine at 2am in the morning in a secluded place you need your head read.

I have a client base of a few hundred, I can tell you that very few of them have been victims of crime, and none have been victims of any violent crimes.

You cant compare the crime rates in Ireland to south Africa with respect i didn't pick Hillbrow i know some people who used to live there. you don't generally need armed response or gated communities in Ireland. An Irish World cup would generate more money not just in ticket sales but its also in the correct time zone for the maximum TV rights plus i reckon the kiwis will vote for Ireland as the Irish pulled several stroke to get them the world cup. Ireland would not have to build any new stadiums as the GAA are already on-board for the bid. WIth the GAA on Board they have access to 20 Stadiums with 20,000 plus capacity

Yeah give all the RWC's to Europe, let everyone in the north share a game here or there, it is a farce the way it is going anyway.

tecphobe wrote:you don't generally need armed response or gated communities in Ireland.

Really? ...I must just visit the wrong places ....

Biltong wrote:

tecphobe wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Guns

I wasn't suggesting Ireland hosted a tournament on their own... but they did host a tournament jointly in 91... just as much as Scotland, Wales, England and France did.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales have a combined population of 15MM.... SA have a population of 50MM.... by that you could argue that SA should host 3 times as many tournaments as Ireland, Scotland and Wales put together.

SA is a big rugby market. They are on of the biggest financial contributors to the coffers of the IRB and geographically they are rather isolated.

In football Europe supplies most of the top teams at the world cup with Brasil and Argentina filling in the rest... yet Europe only ever get the tournament once every 2 world cups.... a lot less than their competitive share.

Surely you don't believe a world cup should go

Europe, SA, Europe, AUS, Europe, Argentina, Europe, NZ, Europe, Europe

thats just a little selfish.

To those in Europe I doubt people care that much if a tournament is in England, Wales or Ireland. Its still only £100 return whereever you live and whatever anyone on here says... the UK is one country, should the UK be able to host the tournament 3 times over AUS' or SA's 1? Come on. All you will be doing is appeasing the same fans all the time. Personally I don't think you actually believe that.

SA has moved on a lot more since 1995 (the last amateur tournament). I'm sure you could concede that SA would provide greater match attendance than any Ireland hosting... given SA has the highest domestic attendances of any rugby nation in the world. Ireland would probably be able to produce higher ticket costs, but then again, expenses would also be significantly higher. NZ struggled to contain all the fans during the RWC... does Ireland have the capacity from a tourist basis? SA certainly does.

I myself would not un-welcome an Ireland solely tournament... but I don't think they should get one as much as SA or AUS for example should do. Those countries are near continent size and have populations that far outstrip Irelands and since SA last hosted a tournament we have seen RWCs in Europe in 99, 07 and soon to be in 15 I think it would be fair to give SA another shot.

IN Rugby terms the UK is 4 countries. Their is also the fact that Ireland is not a crime ridden third world country leaving parts of Limerick aside

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

I guess you were at College to party not study?!


Seriously though if it came down to a straight choice between Ireland and SA I think the IRB would be more likely to choose SA. For reasons stated above its more likely to make money. For the good of the game moving around, these islands (UK& Eire) shouldnt get one for a while. Italy has to be there at some point in the 2020's and if the IRB has any drive at all either North America or Eastern Europe should be on the 'to-do' list. Possibly something like SA 2023, Italy 2028, USA/Canada 2032.

tecphobe wrote:You cant compare the crime rates in Ireland to south Africa with respect i didn't pick Hillbrow i know some people who used to live there. you don't generally need armed response or gated communities in Ireland. An Irish World cup would generate more money not just in ticket sales but its also in the correct time zone for the maximum TV rights plus i reckon the kiwis will vote for Ireland as the Irish pulled several stroke to get them the world cup. Ireland would not have to build any new stadiums as the GAA are already on-board for the bid. WIth the GAA on Board they have access to 20 Stadiums with 20,000 plus capacity

Quick question.... have you ever been to South Africa, or do you just get your opinions from soundbites?

Is South Africa an unsafe country, yes in parts but the FIFA world cup is a far bigger tournament than the RWC and what problems occurred to fans then? Ask some rugby fans what the last lions tour was like or those who have been in country.

Am I more cautious in SA then in the UK, sure but in my honest opinion I feel just as safe here as I was in London. I wouldn't go walking in a squatter camp on my own but then again I wouldn't want to walk in some parts of London on my own either.

I'll give you an example of misconceptions of Africa. I was visited by a friend and his wife a few years back from the UK. After spending a week with us in Cape Town they hired a car and drove towards PE (about 700km). At some point whilst driving past a poor squatter camp they got a flat and broke down. They were terrified especially when some local men suddenly walked up towards them. They thought the unimaginable was going to happen.
These chaps approach my friends and asked them whats wrong, after explaining they got a flat these guys walked away. 5 mins later they came back with an array of jacks and mechanical tools and went to work on the car, changed the tire and once they finished they refused a financial reward and told them to go on their way. I have a dozen more true stories from both myself and people I know... far more then the horror stories which tend to get over used.

Tell me this... would this ever happen in Ireland or the UK? Many Africans live a brutal existance and death is a a regular part of life for many of them... yet they are some of the kindest people you will ever meet, true salt of the earth individuals who could teach us 1st world citizens a thing or two about life and morality.

To be honest I have been rather disappointed with some of the Irish posters on here, the attitude of some is bordering on pathetic. The South African posters on here have never slammed Ireland or said they don't deserve to host the RWC, we have never said that Ireland is this and that and in fact many of us myself included have said in previous posts that we'd be happy if the RWC went to Ireland. Our argument on here has always been about regional fairness. The RWC come 2023 wouldn't have been to Africa for 30 years. Within that time it will have been in Western Europe 3 times.

rodders wrote:

tecphobe wrote:you don't generally need armed response or gated communities in Ireland.

Really? ...I must just visit the wrong places ....

I did say apart from Limerick

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:I tell you what, we'll come play the next Lions tour in Europe, then you give us the RWC.

I just don't get the reasoning that the tournament should be in SA because Saffers don't get to go to travel to tournaments that much unlike in the NH where supporters can travel. Having it in Ireland would actually give them a worthwhile opportunity to do exactly that.

SA have a lot of top rugby on view in SA (Rugby Championship, Super Rugby, Currie Cup & Touring Side every year + Lions Tour ever 12 years).

Travelling away to a world cup would be something different for them!

So what you are saying is we must fork out 6000 pounds every four years to travel 10000 kms to go watch the RWc and have a tournament every 40 years where you guys can fly 500 miles to anywhere in the UK to watch the RWC every 8 years.

Hmmm, seems fair to me.

I think in actual flying hours, SA is closer to Japan than Europe. It certainly is closer to NZ & Aus, so its a bit much to claim that Japan is an easy commute for Europeans. The last couple of world cups have gone - Australia, France, NZ, England, Japan so I really don't know why it should not be back in Europe again.

Lets not forget that the combined populations of the European rugby playing nations are a lot more than SA, Aus & NZ - the main SH teams.

fa0019 wrote:

tecphobe wrote:You cant compare the crime rates in Ireland to south Africa with respect i didn't pick Hillbrow i know some people who used to live there. you don't generally need armed response or gated communities in Ireland. An Irish World cup would generate more money not just in ticket sales but its also in the correct time zone for the maximum TV rights plus i reckon the kiwis will vote for Ireland as the Irish pulled several stroke to get them the world cup. Ireland would not have to build any new stadiums as the GAA are already on-board for the bid. WIth the GAA on Board they have access to 20 Stadiums with 20,000 plus capacity

Quick question.... have you ever been to South Africa, or do you just get your opinions from soundbites?

Is South Africa an unsafe country, yes in parts but the FIFA world cup is a far bigger tournament than the RWC and what problems occurred to fans then? Ask some rugby fans what the last lions tour was like or those who have been in country.

Am I more cautious in SA then in the UK, sure but in my honest opinion I feel just as safe here as I was in London. I wouldn't go walking in a squatter camp on my own but then again I wouldn't want to walk in some parts of London on my own either.

I'll give you an example of misconceptions of Africa. I was visited by a friend and his wife a few years back from the UK. After spending a week with us in Cape Town they hired a car and drove towards PE (about 700km). At some point whilst driving past a poor squatter camp they got a flat and broke down. They were terrified especially when some local men suddenly walked up towards them. They thought the unimaginable was going to happen.
These chaps approach my friends and asked them whats wrong, after explaining they got a flat these guys walked away. 5 mins later they came back with an array of jacks and mechanical tools and went to work on the car, changed the tire and once they finished they refused a financial reward and told them to go on their way. I have a dozen more true stories from both myself and people I know... far more then the horror stories which tend to get over used.

Tell me this... would this ever happen in Ireland or the UK? Many Africans live a brutal existance and death is a a regular part of life for many of them... yet they are some of the kindest people you will ever meet, true salt of the earth individuals who could teach us 1st world citizens a thing or two about life and morality.

To be honest I have been rather disappointed with some of the Irish posters on here, the attitude of some is bordering on pathetic. The South African posters on here have never slammed Ireland or said they don't deserve to host the RWC, we have never said that Ireland is this and that and in fact many of us myself included have said in previous posts that we'd be happy if the RWC went to Ireland. Our argument on here has always been about regional fairness. The RWC come 2023 wouldn't have been to Africa for 30 years. Within that time it will have been in Western Europe 3 times.

Why the association yet again with Ireland and the UK they are separate countries? Yes I have been to South Africa. I have may Friends whose Families left South Africa because it was is no longer safe. You seam to equate South Africa with all of Africa. Get real are many other people from the rest of Africa going to visit or get to see games in South Africa be able to afford to attend? Many South Africa would not be able to afford to attend it never mind those from the rest of the continent. South African attitudes to this smack's of entitlement. Were a much bigger rugby Country than Ireland its our turn let us have it. We are trying to grow the game in Ireland and get it to the point were its the number one sport in the country hosting a world cup would help massively. I am not saying that ever person in South Africa is a bad person far from it. However you could go to a match in Ireland wander of for a few beers and not need a change of trousers if you have to go a cash point late at night. You also don't have to run red lights for fear of having your car hijacked. Now things may have changed and improved recently however what I'm telling you is the perception that many people hold. And the reason why Ireland may get chosen over south Africa. That's not to say that south Africa would run a bad World Cup far from it I'm sure. Now we both know that these things are decided by rugby politics as much as anything else and in politics perception is key as much reality.

Biltong wrote:

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

CJ Stander's partner tweeted about how amazing it was to be able to leave your back door unlocked in Limerick (which you may gather from comments here has a bit of a reputation for crime)!

If SA is a first world country how come a small Irish charity (Niall Mellon Township Trust) has built over 20,000 houses in the last 10 years in townships in SA (it works that volunteers have to raise Euro4.5K and then spend a week+ out in SA actually helping to build these (very small) houses. This Trust has been building 1 in every 3/4 new homes in Cape Town for instance.

http://www.nmtownshiptrust.com/getdoc/c0bb7abc-c413-471d-9d68-9d7769c63cf1/History

Sin é wrote:
CJ Stander's partner tweeted about how amazing it was to be able to leave your back door unlocked in Limerick (which you may gather from comments here has a bit of a reputation for crime)!

Nice one Sin! There goes Stander's plasma screen TV! ......

tecphobe wrote:

rodders wrote:

tecphobe wrote:you don't generally need armed response or gated communities in Ireland.

Really? ...I must just visit the wrong places ....

I did say apart from Limerick

I know you're trying to be funny techphobe but you've hit a bum note here and misread your audience... much like Billy Connolly since 1995. South Africa has got it's problems with crime. Where doesn't? But the Soccer world cup and previous Rugby world cup have shown that they have the organisational skills and man power to provide the required security measures.
I would simply like to see Ireland get the RWC because we have never had an opportunity to host a major sporting tounament in our history. Granted we have never had the capacity to before now but it would be the greatest sporting, social and economic event ever to happen on this island. Just being awarded the World cup would lift the mood in the entire nation. I'm getting goosebumps at just the thoughts of being in with a chance.
Seems to me that if it was to be awarded to South Africa again it would be too soon after the Soccer world cup. It wouldn't feel... special. A RWC in Ireland in 2023 will blow your socks off.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
CJ Stander's partner tweeted about how amazing it was to be able to leave your back door unlocked in Limerick (which you may gather from comments here has a bit of a reputation for crime)!

Nice one Sin! There goes Stander's plasma screen TV! ......

They are not into petty criminality in Limerick - just feuds. (Though someone did tweet her back and told her to lock the door)!

Point is that she felt safe.

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

CJ Stander's partner tweeted about how amazing it was to be able to leave your back door unlocked in Limerick (which you may gather from comments here has a bit of a reputation for crime)!

If SA is a first world country how come a small Irish charity (Niall Mellon Township Trust) has built over 20,000 houses in the last 10 years in townships in SA (it works that volunteers have to raise Euro4.5K and then spend a week+ out in SA actually helping to build these (very small) houses. This Trust has been building 1 in every 3/4 new homes in Cape Town for instance.

http://www.nmtownshiptrust.com/getdoc/c0bb7abc-c413-471d-9d68-9d7769c63cf1/History

He said urban areas Sin and Ireland has received a fair amount of overseas aid in it's time. Tens of billions required from the troika to keep our banks afloat, unprecedented austerity for our citizens and tax haven status for global corporations suggest we are in a relegation battle for first world survival.

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

CJ Stander's partner tweeted about how amazing it was to be able to leave your back door unlocked in Limerick (which you may gather from comments here has a bit of a reputation for crime)!

If SA is a first world country how come a small Irish charity (Niall Mellon Township Trust) has built over 20,000 houses in the last 10 years in townships in SA (it works that volunteers have to raise Euro4.5K and then spend a week+ out in SA actually helping to build these (very small) houses. This Trust has been building 1 in every 3/4 new homes in Cape Town for instance.

http://www.nmtownshiptrust.com/getdoc/c0bb7abc-c413-471d-9d68-9d7769c63cf1/History

He said urban areas Sin and Ireland has received a fair amount of overseas aid in it's time. Tens of billions required from the troika to keep our banks afloat, unprecedented austerity for our citizens and tax haven status for global corporations suggest we are in a relegation battle for first world survival.

Only needed due to insane political decisonssame with tax haven status

Sin e

Do you think CJ Stander and his partner will stay in Ireland once his career is over? Or if they split up? Not a chance.
He and she will do what all the other mercenaries do.... they will return home. They all do.

Most people in Europe base their experiences on people who have left for a specific reason and then take that of the norm, i.e. those who are in your respected country at the time.... by only taking the opinions of those who have left you're basing your opinions on 1 side of the story. If you ask people in SA I think your observations of the issues here may differ slightly.

If people leave, good luck to them, its up to them. Ireland themselves are going through a period of large scale emigration for other reasons, no country is perfect.

Anyhow going back to rugby perhaps SA should split up like the UK has split up so that we can get more voting rights in the IRB. It is a combination of 3 former countries anyhow. It would give the likes of Ireland more of a chance of winning the title or more realistically actually getting further than a QF and then we can also put in make a similar loco argument that we should host the tournament on a proportional basis as we too have 3 "countries" rather than 1.

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:I tell you what, we'll come play the next Lions tour in Europe, then you give us the RWC.

I just don't get the reasoning that the tournament should be in SA because Saffers don't get to go to travel to tournaments that much unlike in the NH where supporters can travel. Having it in Ireland would actually give them a worthwhile opportunity to do exactly that.

SA have a lot of top rugby on view in SA (Rugby Championship, Super Rugby, Currie Cup & Touring Side every year + Lions Tour ever 12 years).

Travelling away to a world cup would be something different for them!

So what you are saying is we must fork out 6000 pounds every four years to travel 10000 kms to go watch the RWc and have a tournament every 40 years where you guys can fly 500 miles to anywhere in the UK to watch the RWC every 8 years.

Hmmm, seems fair to me.

I think in actual flying hours, SA is closer to Japan than Europe. It certainly is closer to NZ & Aus, so its a bit much to claim that Japan is an easy commute for Europeans. The last couple of world cups have gone - Australia, France, NZ, England, Japan so I really don't know why it should not be back in Europe again.

Lets not forget that the combined populations of the European rugby playing nations are a lot more than SA, Aus & NZ - the main SH teams.

How is Japan part of Europe?

I said, it is easy to travel for Europeans in Europe.

Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

fa0019 wrote:

Anyhow going back to rugby perhaps SA should split up like the UK has split up so that we can get more voting rights in the IRB. It is a combination of 3 former countries anyhow. It would give the likes of Ireland more of a chance of winning the title or more realistically actually getting further than a QF and then we can also put in make a similar loco argument that we should host the tournament on a proportional basis as we too have 3 "countries" rather than 1.

Excellent idea FA, we can even give Orania independence so they have another vote.

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Low blow that mate, the people that visited SA had a good time and had not complaints.

Besides that, we may be seen as a third world country, but our urban areas are as first world as any you have.

Which other "third world" country boasts the stadia we do, which other "third world " country boasts our rugby achievemenets

Which other "third world" country has 17 Universities and in total 41 institutions of higher kearning.

CJ Stander's partner tweeted about how amazing it was to be able to leave your back door unlocked in Limerick (which you may gather from comments here has a bit of a reputation for crime)!

If SA is a first world country how come a small Irish charity (Niall Mellon Township Trust) has built over 20,000 houses in the last 10 years in townships in SA (it works that volunteers have to raise Euro4.5K and then spend a week+ out in SA actually helping to build these (very small) houses. This Trust has been building 1 in every 3/4 new homes in Cape Town for instance.

http://www.nmtownshiptrust.com/getdoc/c0bb7abc-c413-471d-9d68-9d7769c63cf1/History

I highlighted the important part you seem to have misread.

fa0019 wrote:Sin e

Do you think CJ Stander and his partner will stay in Ireland once his career is over? Or if they split up? Not a chance.
He and she will do what all the other mercenaries do.... they will return home. They all do.

Most people in Europe base their experiences on people who have left for a specific reason and then take that of the norm, i.e. those who are in your respected country at the time.... by only taking the opinions of those who have left you're basing your opinions on 1 side of the story. If you ask people in SA I think your observations of the issues here may differ slightly.

If people leave, good luck to them, its up to them. Ireland themselves are going through a period of large scale emigration for other reasons, no country is perfect.

Anyhow going back to rugby perhaps SA should split up like the UK has split up so that we can get more voting rights in the IRB. It is a combination of 3 former countries anyhow. It would give the likes of Ireland more of a chance of winning the title or more realistically actually getting further than a QF and then we can also put in make a similar loco argument that we should host the tournament on a proportional basis as we too have 3 "countries" rather than 1.

I'd imagine that CJ & his wife will return to SA as that is where their family and roots are. Good luck to them both - doing what they are doing is something Irish people understand very well.

I do have friends who retired to SA (Danish & Irish nationality), but returned to Ireland to live because of the crime. Sadly I also had a work colleague & friend who was killed with his partner in a car crash driving out of Cape Town airport by a drunken driver in the middle of the day a few years ago. They were regular visitors to SA with their two kids (the two kids survived).

The way its set up certainly favours SH teams two of whom have hosted the tournament more than anyone else. It shouldn't necessarily go to the SH every second year as there are only 4 teams there. If this continues you could be faced with a situation whereby some teams may have hosted it up to three times before a perfectly viable option in the NH gets to host it even once. There is clearly a SH bias in operation and it needs to be rethought.

There is a little town called Henley on Klip, 30 km's south of Johannesburg, filled with UK citizens who immigrated to SA.

Some of them are clients of mine, they love living here.

The home nations have 1 vote right each. SA, NZ and AUS have only 1 vote themselves. The 6N sides have more votes then the 3N sides.

If 3 beats 4/5/6 its probably because your ideas/arguments/bids weren't that strong in the first place.

I don't think there is any real bias... Sanzar have hosted 4 tournaments. the 6N have hosted 3 tournaments and will host the next.

Doesn't look like bias to me.

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

Biltong wrote:There is a little town called Henley on Klip, 30 km's south of Johannesburg, filled with UK citizens who immigrated to SA.

Some of them are clients of mine, they love living here.

Sounds like a bit of England in SA. No wonder they like living there. Whats the crime like - have they organised private security?

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:There is a little town called Henley on Klip, 30 km's south of Johannesburg, filled with UK citizens who immigrated to SA.

Some of them are clients of mine, they love living here.

Sounds like a bit of England in SA. No wonder they like living there. Whats the crime like - have they organised private security?

They have crime sprees on and of, mostly burglaries.

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

All power to Ireland for making a bid. I will be going to 2015 RWC and Ireland would be no different. It's in the neighborhood. But personally a RWC trip to Argentina would be amazing. October is the best month to travel there.

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

To be fair it is rather difficult to satisfy the need for housing in SA's townships when our borders are open to anyone from Africa. By last count there were 3 million illegals in SA.

fa0019 wrote:The home nations have 1 vote right each. SA, NZ and AUS have only 1 vote themselves. The 6N sides have more votes then the 3N sides.

If 3 beats 4/5/6 its probably because your ideas/arguments/bids weren't that strong in the first place.

I don't think there is any real bias... Sanzar have hosted 4 tournaments. the 6N have hosted 3 tournaments and will host the next.

Doesn't look like bias to me.

the home nations lol Ireland is a seperate Country. For sporting purposes England Wales and Scotland are separate countires as funnily enough the UK doesnt enter a team.

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

To be fair it is rather difficult to satisfy the need for housing in SA's townships when our borders are open to anyone from Africa. By last count there were 3 million illegals in SA.

But didn't you say you wanted the world cup for all of Africa? You then go on and complain about illegal immigrants.

tecphobe wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

To be fair it is rather difficult to satisfy the need for housing in SA's townships when our borders are open to anyone from Africa. By last count there were 3 million illegals in SA.

But didn't you say you wanted the world cup for all of Africa? You then go on and complain about illegal immigrants.

Hmmmm, difference between visiting and staying, eh?

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

Technically Ireland had a massive leg up infrastructure-wise courtesy of the EU through the 80's and 90's though - I remember our tour guide in '05 waxing lyrical on the subject. Granted I suspect he's not so complementary about the EU now

Biltong wrote:

tecphobe wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

To be fair it is rather difficult to satisfy the need for housing in SA's townships when our borders are open to anyone from Africa. By last count there were 3 million illegals in SA.

But didn't you say you wanted the world cup for all of Africa? You then go on and complain about illegal immigrants.

Hmmmm, difference between visiting and staying, eh?

indeed you should perhaps tell that to the 200,000 plus south African's in the Uk on 'holiday' visa's Its also intellectually lazy to blame south Africa's problems on Illegal immigrant's. Massive disparity of wealth destribution years of oppression maybe

Every EU member state qualifies for infrastructure grants as far as I know. They were great though. The roads here have changed beyond belief in recent years. When I was a kid there wasn't one single motorway in Ireland. Now there are loads.

GunsGerms wrote:Every EU member state qualifies for infrastructure grants as far as I know. They were great though. The roads here have changed beyond belief in recent years. When I was a kid there wasn't one single motorway in Ireland. Now there are loads.

I know.

I just ticked into "pedant" mode for a second


My preference as to location of RWC'23 will entirely depend on where I'm living at the time. If I'm still in Europe I will be in favour of Ireland so that I can go to some games. If I'm back in NZ I'll be complaining about games being on at stupid o'clock either way

The main reason I want the RWC to be in Ireland is because Im Irish and I support Ireland. Irelands RWC record is very poor yet having home advantage does help. Just ask NZ (Don't ask France or Aus re '03). I also think the RWC would put Ireland on the map as it did for SA in '05.

Who knows it may even help boost relations between Ireland south and north even more which would be incredible.

I am convinced that Ireland will be able to put forward an outstanding bid and given the compact scale of our island and warm welcome to tourists it could potentially the biggest party the RWC has ever seen. Even though Ireland is close to the UK and dspite Dublin being the first place in the world to fly a union jack we do have our own unique identity and a RWC in Ireland would certainly be a little different to anything on offer from out neighbours.

The island is packed to the brim with golf resorts and decent hotels that could easily house all the teams and fans comfortably.

That said if the Ireland bid was not successful I would like to see the bid go to:

Australia. Love it there and they do put on a good show.
Argentina/Uruguay or SA. Would love to go there
Somewhere in eastern Europe to grow the game. Maybe even Russia.
Canada. Much rather a RWC in Canada than the US.

Wouldn't be to bothered to see it in Italy or the US.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

Technically Ireland had a massive leg up infrastructure-wise courtesy of the EU through the 80's and 90's though - I remember our tour guide in '05 waxing lyrical on the subject. Granted I suspect he's not so complementary about the EU now

He'd probably tell you we should never have given away our fishing rights to the EU back then. Next time you see Scottish Sammon or Spanish Sole on the menu, it was only landed in Scotland or Spain. They all came from what was formerly Irish waters.

Sin é wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since when is Cape Town not an urban area?

As you well know, Ireland has to pay back the money it has borrowed - completely different to what the Neil Mellon Trust is doing. Maybe it might be better for Ireland if its charity was directed towards finishing off the building of the social housing in Moyross (Limerick - area Keith Earls comes from is one of the most deprived areas in Europe) instead of building social housing for such a wealth 1st world country like SA.

This is getting too petty. Moyross is not comparable to the shacks the Niall Mellon trust is trying to replace.

You claimed Ireland was on the receiving end of charity from the EU/IMF. We're not. Like all first world countries we are expected to pay it back (with interest). SA will not have to return the money invested by the Neil Mellon Trust.

Moyross is a fairly dismal place which may have slightly different problems to places like Soweto, but it is still a very deprived area with similar problems of unemployment and poor housing. You need far better housing in cold, wet Limerick than you do in sunny Soweto.

Technically Ireland had a massive leg up infrastructure-wise courtesy of the EU through the 80's and 90's though - I remember our tour guide in '05 waxing lyrical on the subject. Granted I suspect he's not so complementary about the EU now

He'd probably tell you we should never have given away our fishing rights to the EU back then. Next time you see Scottish Sammon or Spanish Sole on the menu, it was only landed in Scotland or Spain. They all came from what was formerly Irish waters.

True - though he didn't mention the Scots, just blamed the Spanish and the English