Federer v Nadal - XXX

First topic message reminder :

At this juncture in their careers, with injuries, other players rising and Djokovic's ascent to world No 1, one must surely treasure the renewal of this most prolific rivalry of Men's Tennis in "big matches." We don't know how many or even if, there will be another one. Regardless of the head to head, who's won what, at which time, during this rivalry, one has a sense of great anticipation when these two juggernauts meet.

With a great deal on the line, moving into next week's French Open, there is much to "prove" for both players. This will be a battle both of them wish dearly to win.

Nadal going for his 7th Rome title, 24th TMS title, 41st clay court title and 56th career title.

Federer hoping to lift his first Rome title, 22nd TMS title, 77th career title.

Nadal leads the head to head 19 - 10 matches, but holds a 12 - 2 edge in their clay court rivalry, plus a commanding 8 - 2 edge in the Major finals. Some would say it's a foregone conclusion that Nadal will take this meeting but if there was a time for Federer to "pounce," surely this is one of the opportune times to do so. The two tend to bring out the best in each other, and one just hopes that they can both play superlative tennis for the duration of the match. It's 7 years since their epic 5 set, 5 hour and 5 minute final in Rome, where Federer held match points, only for Nadal to edge the match in a final tiebreak.

Am really looking forward to it, regardless of what it might or might not, portend for Roland Garros.

2013 ATP Masters Series Hard QF Nadal 6-4, 6-2 19 Nadal's 1st HC tournament in a year! Went on to win the title!
Indian Wells
2012 ATP Masters Series Hard SF Federer 6-3, 6-4 10 1st outdoor hardcourt win since Miami 2005 for Federer
Indian Wells
2012 Australian Open Hard S Nadal 6-7, 6-2, 7-6, 6-4 18 N's 8th win from 10 meetings in Major tournaments
Melbourne
2011 Tennis Masters Cup Hard RR Federer 6-3, 6-0 9
London
2011 Roland Garros Clay F Nadal 7-5, 7-6, 5-7, 6-1 17 Win's 5th match, and 4th final v Federer at French Open; ties Borg at 6 titles
France
2011 ATP Masters Series Clay S Nadal 5-7, 6-1, 6-3 16 1st time winner of 1st set hasn't won match!
Madrid
2011 ATP Masters Series Hard S Nadal 6-3, 6-2 15
Miami
2010 Tennis Masters Cup Hard F Federer 6-3, 3-6, 6-2 8
London
2010 ATP Masters Series Clay F Nadal 6-4, 7-6 (5) 14 1st Man to win 3 straight TMS titles, and all 3 on clay for the season
Madrid
2009 ATP Masters Series Clay F Federer 6-4, 6-4, 7
Madrid
2009 Australian Open Hard F Nadal 7-5, 3-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-2 13 N saved 13 of 18 bp's; N played 5 set SF, day after F played 3 set SF!!
Melbourne
2008 Wimbledon Grass F Nadal 6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 9-7 12 N had MP's in 4S TB
Great Britain
2008 Roland Garros Clay F Nadal 6-1, 6-3, 6-0 11 Utter destruction!! Worst professional loss for Federer EVER!
France
2008 ATP Masters Series Clay F Nadal 7-5, 6-7, 6-3 10 F led 5-1 1st set, 5-2 2nd set
Hamburg
2008 ATP Masters Series Clay F Nadal 7-5, 7-5 9 F led 4-0 1st set, led 2nd set
Monte Carlo
2007 Tennis Masters Cup Hard S Federer 6-4, 6-1 6
China
2007 Wimbledon Grass F Federer 7-6(7), 4-6, 7-6(3), 2-6, 6-2 5 N had 4 breakpoints in 1st 2 service games 5th set, didn't break…could have won 6-2 !
Great Britain
2007 Roland Garos Clay F Nadal 6-3, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4 8
France
2007 ATP Masters Series Clay F Federer 2-6, 6-2, 6-0 4 Ended N's 81 CC match streak. 1st CC final N has lost.
Hamburg
2007 ATP Masters Series Clay F Nadal 6-4, 6-4 7
Monte Carlo
2006 Tennis Masters Cup Hard S Federer 6-4, 7-5 3
China
2006 Wimbledon Grass F Federer 6-0, 7-6(5), 6-7(2), 6-3 2
Great Britain
2006 Roland Garos Clay F Nadal 1-6, 6-1, 6-4, 7-6(4) 6
France
2006 ATP Masters Series Clay F Nadal 6-7(0), 7-6(5), 6-4, 2-6, 7-6(5) 5 F had match points !
Rome
2006 ATP Masters Series Clay F Nadal 6-2, 6-7(2), 6-3, 7-6(5) 4
Monte Carlo
2006 Dubai Hard F Nadal 2-6, 6-4, 6-4 3
U.A.E.
2005 Roland Garos Clay S Nadal 6-3, 4-6, 6-4, 6-3 2
France
2005 ATP Masters Series Hard F Federer 2-6, 6-7(4), 7-6(5), 6-3, 6-1 1 N had match point !
Miami
2004 ATP Masters Series Hard R32 Nadal 6-3, 6-3 1
Miami

Let's hope it's not the last career meeting for these two giants of the modern game, but that it IS one of their most hard fought and suspenseful matches, and enjoy the "moment...." All too soon, this rivalry will end, as it must, but hopefully not tomorrow!

Henman Bill wrote:Well done to Rafa, what a season so far! And clearly a better clay court season than Djokovic, or, obviously, anyone else. Really good tennis today. Good mix of attack and defence. Almost a fast a victory as the one Federer got against Rafa at the WTF, presumably would be their shortest match on clay at least. Some great passing shots from Rafa as well. He looks back to his best now. I had my doubts in his early tournaments this year, even Indian Wells, but that was very good.

If they play at RG I think it will be even harder for Federer on a likely slower surface and over 5 sets. I doubt he will ever beat Rafa again on clay, maybe once more at most although even that's probably doubtful.

Federer often starts well, looking the better player, until Rafa catches him and overtakes him. Usually this takes about 30 or 60 minutes, today it was about 5.

Federer shot himself in the foot with an alarming flurry of forehand errors in the middle of the first set. After that, it was always going to be quite the challenge. I felt a bit sick after Rafa won about 9 games in a row. Federer was having to play amazingly good games to win one. I felt better in the second part of the set, I was actually enjoying some good standard tennis.

To be honest, Federer didn't play all that badly for a lot of the match. I don't think this was his worst performance against Rafa. I think one at Miami probably was, and I think he was also worse at Indian Wells this year, and at the French Open in 2008 of course. Probably not one of his worst standards of play this year either. That being said, at 6-1 5-1 it looked like being his worst defeat, at least statistically, in terms of games won per set vs Rafa (or against anyone, ever?).

You would think the way the match went on Federer would get depressed and get worse, but his level didn't at least drop further. Then against that's not hard after the way he started, with the toss away of his serve at 1-1. I thought he fought gamely on and actually played fairly well in the second set with a good mix of tennis. I think the way he played today would still have been good enough to beat all but at most 3 or 4 players. You have to remember a lot of the errors come because of the spin, the mental difficulty of playing against Rafa, the knowledge that he will run down more so you have to go for more...and then there's the errors on the 4th or 5th shot when he would already have won the point against a lesser player.

I think looking back on the whole tournament it has been a good week for Roger overall.

I think this post of yours sums it up quite well.

its not nice to watch, Roger goes into a shell his whole body language is different when he plays Rafa. Its very much the same as when Rafa plays Novak they become different people in my mind. If Roger had the memory of a goldfish I wonder if he would still be beaten 6-1 6-3?

It is such a one sided rivalry, really starting to wonder about the hype. Could see this drubbing coming from a mile away. Didn't see it but sounds like a shocking performance from federer and good stuff from rafa

Federer is too stubborn and becomes even more aggressive than usual with Nadal on the other side of the net. It is strange that Annacone and Federer did not come up with a better strategy than kamikaze net approaches. Errors just made it even worse.

Nadal v Ferrer is much more watchable than Nadal v Federer despite the Ferrer h2h.

Nadal is #4 and Federer is #3 now with an unlikely change till RG - http://live-tennis.eu - so a RG final is when they can meet.

The result has huge implications for Roland Garros, as Nadal's No. 4 seeding guarantees the seven-time champion cannot meet World No. 1 Novak Djokovic, No. 2 Andy Murray or No. 3 Federer before the semi-finals. Murray’s status remains questionable, as the Scot is battling a lower back issue.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/05/20/Rome-Sunday-Nadal-Gets-Fourth-Seed-Roland-Garros.aspx

Did Federer tank on purpose?

Well we all know that Federer only rarely shows much more than glimpses of his very best form when Rafa is on the other side of the net on a clay court. Plus, it's inevitable that the age gap is counting more and more against him.

But the rivalry 'hype' will always be a feature simply because of past battles and what these two guys have accomplished in their sport over the years.

And despite his advancing years it's only around 18 months back that Federer bagelled Rafa during a very swift victory indoors in London, and there was an almost equally comfortable Fed win outdoors at Indian Wells just over a year ago.

Perhaps the most stark illustration of how Father Time is finally catching up with Fed is the fact this was his first season on tour since 1999 that he has had to wait until May before making it through to a Final ......

Many congratulations Rafa on your 24th Masters Title

Good win for Nadal, against a guy who is nearly retired

lags72 wrote:Perhaps the most stark illustration of how Father Time is finally catching up with Fed is the fact this was his first season on tour since 1999 that he has had to wait until May before making it through to a Final ......

This retired player can still get to finals though.

lags72 wrote:Many congratulations Rafa on your 24th Masters Title

Absolutely.

Still he can't beat Fed at WTF, the one that reeeeally matters

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Good win for Nadal, against a guy who is nearly retired

Is that compliment as backhanded as it sounds JM ???

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Good win for Nadal, against a guy who is nearly retired

Is that compliment as backhanded as it sounds JM ???

Rather he lost to Nadal than Berdy or Janowicz

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Still he can't beat Fed at WTF, the one that reeeeally matters

There is still time .... for Rafa at least

Well done to him, shame Fed wasn't firing like he did earlier in the tournament. Gulbis shoulda still had him though

laverfan wrote:Federer is too stubborn and becomes even more aggressive than usual with Nadal on the other side of the net. It is strange that Annacone and Federer did not come up with a better strategy than kamikaze net approaches. Errors just made it even worse.

But I think he has to be very proactive if he wants to have any chance. He said before the match he would try to play aggressive. Clearly, no matter what strategy he chooses he will have only a small probability of success. Today he was not at his best, which made it even more one-sided, but that does not mean a less aggressive approach would have worked. For that, one would need to be able to stay in the rallies with Rafa, and the only one who can do that is Nole. Of course, once you can stay in the rallies, the equation becomes entirely different, but I do not think that is an option for Roger.

laverfan wrote:Did Federer tank on purpose?

Hehe, obviously not, but if there is any silver lining in today's drubbing, then the implications on the RG seeding are it. Given Andy's ineptitude on this surface (and I admit I initially expected him to do better this year), we sort of have big three in Rafa, Nole and Roger. We now have two possibilities:

1. Andy plays at RG: In this case Roger and Rafa are #3 and #4 seeds, and will be on the opposite sides of the draw. In this case, Roger and Rafa will each have 50% chance to have the "easy" semi, while Nole will be scheduled to play one of them in SF, and the other one in F.

2. Andy does not play at RG: In this case Nole and Roger are #1 and #2 seeds. Now it is Roger and Nole who have 50% chance each of the "easy" SF, and Rafa is certain to be scheduled against one of them in SF, and the other one in F.

So, Roger is in the best position as far as possible draws are concerned.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Well done to him, shame Fed wasn't firing like he did earlier in the tournament. Gulbis shoulda still had him though

Yes and according to him he was the better player... strange how it goes though eh ???

What is frustrating about watching these match ups is that Federer has always had the ability but always ties himself up in knots when he plays Nadal. I think he over thinks his game and does not allow himself to play his natural game. Nadal got hammered 6-1 by Gulbis on clay and lost a set to his pigeon Ferrer. His demolition job vs Federer and Berdych suggests these two guys just cannot cannot seem to get their heads round Nadal.

I think Nadal wins most of his clay court matches in the locker room as there is an aura of invincibility. It's a good thing Djokovic does not think that way as there is some hope or light at the end of the tunnel as otherwise the FO would be an absolute bore as the result is and has been predictable since 2005 bar 2009 when Soderling gave the FO some excitement! Perhaps Djoko losing before he played Nadal bodes well for him at RG as otherwise too much of his game would be exposed playing Nadal so close to RG?

Looks like 2012 was Fed's last magical year. I cannot imagine this time last year he had won 2 masters, Dubai and Rotterdam. If he carries on like this he will most certainly be no 5 or 6 come November. I think it would be a great headline if Federer can win Wimbledon on the 10th anniversary of his first win but the way things are going QF's at best unless there is a major shift over the next month.

summerblues wrote:

laverfan wrote:Federer is too stubborn and becomes even more aggressive than usual with Nadal on the other side of the net. It is strange that Annacone and Federer did not come up with a better strategy than kamikaze net approaches. Errors just made it even worse.

But I think he has to be very proactive if he wants to have any chance. He said before the match he would try to play aggressive. Clearly, no matter what strategy he chooses he will have only a small probability of success. Today he was not at his best, which made it even more one-sided, but that does not mean a less aggressive approach would have worked. For that, one would need to be able to stay in the rallies with Rafa, and the only one who can do that is Nole. Of course, once you can stay in the rallies, the equation becomes entirely different, but I do not think that is an option for Roger.

laverfan wrote:Did Federer tank on purpose?

Hehe, obviously not, but if there is any silver lining in today's drubbing, then the implications on the RG seeding are it. Given Andy's ineptitude on this surface (and I admit I initially expected him to do better this year), we sort of have big three in Rafa, Nole and Roger. We now have two possibilities:

1. Andy plays at RG: In this case Roger and Rafa are #3 and #4 seeds, and will be on the opposite sides of the draw. In this case, Roger and Rafa will each have 50% chance to have the "easy" semi, while Nole will be scheduled to play one of them in SF, and the other one in F.

2. Andy does not play at RG: In this case Nole and Roger are #1 and #2 seeds. Now it is Roger and Nole who have 50% chance each of the "easy" SF, and Rafa is certain to be scheduled against one of them in SF, and the other one in F.

So, Roger is in the best position as far as possible draws are concerned.

Interesting article by Bleacher after Rafa´s win today


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1644079-rafael-nadals-rome-masters-performance-spells-doom-for-field-at-french-open

slashermcguirk wrote:It is such a one sided rivalry, really starting to wonder about the hype

A point I've made for years. I fail to see what's so good about the vast majority of their matches. Granted from 2007/8 it was 'great'. But it more or less ended when Rafa buried Roger at RG 09'

banbrotam wrote:

slashermcguirk wrote:It is such a one sided rivalry, really starting to wonder about the hype

A point I've made for years. I fail to see what's so good about the vast majority of their matches. Granted from 2007/8 it was 'great'. But it more or less ended when Rafa buried Roger at RG 09'

Most times they have met on clay, atleast he has beaten Nadal on it a few times not like Murray ever will

Haddie-nuff wrote:Interesting article by Bleacher after Rafa´s win today

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1644079-rafael-nadals-rome-masters-performance-spells-doom-for-field-at-french-open

I don't know, to me it sounds like a bit of media hype - they have a reason to hype things up because they stand nothing to lose if they turn out to be wrong. If they predict "player XYZ to be near certain to accomplish ABC" and then it does not happen, they do no lose anything. Just the opposite, they gain an extra headline "shocking upset of player XYZ who appeared near certain to do ABC".

Obviously Rafa is the top favorite for RG - he always is. And obviously winning in Madrid and Rome makes it more so than losing would have done. But I do not think we have obtained many answers over the last few weeks to the questions we have had. Rafa was always likely to beat everyone except perhaps Nole. I think that is equally true now as it was before the clay court season started. The biggest question is what will happen if Rafa and Nole get to play each other, and I do not think we really have seen conclusive answers to that - and the only one we have seen in Monte Carlo would cast doubt on what that article is suggesting.

Josiah Maiestas wrote: Most times they have met on clay, atleast he has beaten Nadal on it a few times not like Murray ever will

Classy as ever Josiah But I've never said that Andy and Rafa are a 'great' rivalry

Some of us are actualy bothered that Roger rarely does himself justice against Rafa and hence how can it be a great rivalry

Trust that is something you can understand

banbrotam wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote: Most times they have met on clay, atleast he has beaten Nadal on it a few times not like Murray ever will

Classy as ever Josiah But I've never said that Andy and Rafa are a 'great' rivalry

Some of us are actualy bothered that Roger rarely does himself justice against Rafa and hence how can it be a great rivalry

Trust that is something you can understand

Murray has a h2h lead on Federer, guess that makes him better too. Davydenko dominated Nadal on HC many times, is he better?

Big servers, unlike Federer, like Gulbis, Janowicz, Paire, or ralliers like Ferrer, Djokovic expose Nadal a bit, but neither group has the ability to do this consistently on clay.

Djokovic, like Federer, may never achieve a GS, as is Nadal till these two are around.

laverfan wrote:

.......................................................

Djokovic, like Federer, may never achieve a GS, as is Nadal till these two are around.

Translation please laverfan ...... ?

lags72 wrote:

laverfan wrote:

.......................................................

Djokovic, like Federer, may never achieve a GS, as is Nadal till these two are around.

Translation please laverfan ...... ?

None of those 3 can ever achieve the Grand Slam whilst the other 2 are still around, I think?

TSJ is correct. Apologies for the sentence construction.

They have stopped each other often from achieving records.

Ok thanks laverfan.

And well deciphered TSJ

Thanks. I needed the Rosetta Stone though

(Sorry LF )

The Special Juan wrote:Thanks. I needed the Rosetta Stone though

(Sorry LF )

NP. TSJ

watching todays match it amazes me Federer has been able to run Rafa so close at all on clay, also considering the 5 year age gap its very impressive he is still hanging around. After the Wimbledon defeat you would have thought he would wind down but he refuses to completely go away

laverfan wrote:
Nadal is #4 and Federer is #3 now with an unlikely change till RG - http://live-tennis.eu - so a RG final is when they can meet.

The result has huge implications for Roland Garros, as Nadal's No. 4 seeding guarantees the seven-time champion cannot meet World No. 1 Novak Djokovic, No. 2 Andy Murray or No. 3 Federer before the semi-finals. Murray’s status remains questionable, as the Scot is battling a lower back issue.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/05/20/Rome-Sunday-Nadal-Gets-Fourth-Seed-Roland-Garros.aspx

Did Federer tank on purpose?

Good question LF. I believe so. With no back issue yesterday, plus entering the match without dropping a single set pre-Semi, how could he have played WORSE than their last meeting just recently at IW when Roger couldn't even move properly due to his bad injury? In other words, it makes no sense for him to play BETTER vs nadal (slightly 64-62) when he had a bad injury than when he was not injured!

Now if he stays #3 and nadal #4 (counting murray in), it's a guarantee they won't be drawn in the same half.

CAS wrote:watching todays match it amazes me Federer has been able to run Rafa so close at all on clay, also considering the 5 year age gap its very impressive he is still hanging around. After the Wimbledon defeat you would have thought he would wind down but he refuses to completely go away

Yes, where was Sampras nearing 32, let alone on clay?

Today's king of clay at 27 is supposed to beat an old champ waaaaaaay out of his prime and people are so funny that they make it sound like the most amazing guy with the biggest muscles and never-ending stamina is the one aged 32 and roger is 27 for him to overcome and somehow there should be any realistic rivalry. The problem with a "non-match" like this was that Roger essentially refused and rejected the challenge. He barely turned up. nadal didn't beat an absentee roger so much as Roger presented the win to him on a silver platter. That's Roger's problem, no offense to Nadal.

CommonSense wrote:

laverfan wrote:
Nadal is #4 and Federer is #3 now with an unlikely change till RG - http://live-tennis.eu - so a RG final is when they can meet.

The result has huge implications for Roland Garros, as Nadal's No. 4 seeding guarantees the seven-time champion cannot meet World No. 1 Novak Djokovic, No. 2 Andy Murray or No. 3 Federer before the semi-finals. Murray’s status remains questionable, as the Scot is battling a lower back issue.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/05/20/Rome-Sunday-Nadal-Gets-Fourth-Seed-Roland-Garros.aspx

Did Federer tank on purpose?

Good question LF. I believe so. With no back issue yesterday, plus entering the match without dropping a single set pre-Semi, how could he have played WORSE than their last meeting just recently at IW when Roger couldn't even move properly due to his bad injury? In other words, it makes no sense for him to play BETTER vs nadal (slightly 64-62) when he had a bad injury than when he was not injured!

Now if he stays #3 and nadal #4 (counting murray in), it's a guarantee they won't be drawn in the same half.

I hope this is a wind up because you are not SERIOUSLY expecting anyone to believe that the Former Number 1 .. the G O A T ... would publicy humiliate himself by tanking in front of the world with a score line like that... if he was going to tank it he would at least have given up a fight for the crowd if not for himself.
So I will have a good and say thanks for the joke.

Though I don't think anyone expected Fed to win I think most expected him to put up some kind of resistance and take at least a set if not making one or both of them very competitive. Match up issue or none, he's a much better player than, as some have mentioned, someone like Ferrer. Perhaps Fed doesn't see the difference between losing in a close match or losing like he did and doesn't care anymore. Maybe he knows something we don't. Up til now he was the greatest for me and seeing as I don't use statistics to make the final decision, this consistent loss of form when needed the most is really starting to affect his standing in my eyes.

@ HN: Nah, anything is possible behind the scene. Only the most naive and deluded fan refuse to see their idols as just another human being who happens to play very good tennis. To me there's nothing more humiliating and down right disrespectful for a player to receive on-court coaching while he's at the losing end of a match or randomly washing his hands/ running to the loo to try disrupt his opponent's winning momentum.
If I were you, I'd save my laughs for the FO when Nadal is expected to life his 8th.

Not sure who you are on about "washing his hands" "running to the loo" etc
and neither do I want to.
I am not a Federer fan and never have been but it seems that I have more respect for him than many of his "so called" followers. He is no idol of mine but I have always given him credit for being the utmost professional, a man with integrity who imo would never do what has been suggested. If you had watched one of his night matches during the tournament you would have spotted that he was wearing two shirts.. although he is not publicly saying it that man has a problem with his back. He is not moving anywhere near like he did or should and Rafa had him all over the court. Save your criticisms of other players Im not interested Im picking up on the outrageous suggestion that Federer "tanked" that match.. the same is now being said of Novak he "tanked" against Berdy because he did not want Rafa to beat him and go into the FO with a psychological advantage... where do you people get this from.????
Is everyone so scared of Rafa that they have to tank.. is that why Andy Murray is likely to pull out.

Bye the way how many of you have fairies at the bottom of your garden ???

HN you've taken LFs joke pretty seriously.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Though I don't think anyone expected Fed to win I think most expected him to put up some kind of resistance and take at least a set if not making one or both of them very competitive. Match up issue or none, he's a much better player than, as some have mentioned, someone like Ferrer. Perhaps Fed doesn't see the difference between losing in a close match or losing like he did and doesn't care anymore. Maybe he knows something we don't. Up til now he was the greatest for me and seeing as I don't use statistics to make the final decision, this consistent loss of form when needed the most is really starting to affect his standing in my eyes.

Sorry, could I say that you're a bit unfair in criticizing the best (and aging) player in tennis history for the way he wants to play his matches. He didn't hoard the best tennis records thus far for no reasons. I guess we have to take the sweet with the sour at the same time being a sports fan. It is our own responsibility to stand up and deal with the losses of our chosen player. How can we realistically expect Roger NOT to lose form going on 32? He's just as human as you or I. The good thing is you always have the freedom to chose another player to replace Roger in your eyes.

CommonSense wrote:

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Though I don't think anyone expected Fed to win I think most expected him to put up some kind of resistance and take at least a set if not making one or both of them very competitive. Match up issue or none, he's a much better player than, as some have mentioned, someone like Ferrer. Perhaps Fed doesn't see the difference between losing in a close match or losing like he did and doesn't care anymore. Maybe he knows something we don't. Up til now he was the greatest for me and seeing as I don't use statistics to make the final decision, this consistent loss of form when needed the most is really starting to affect his standing in my eyes.

Sorry, could I say that you're a bit unfair in criticizing the best (and aging) player in tennis history for the way he wants to play his matches. He didn't hoard the best tennis records thus far for no reasons. I guess we have to take the sweet with the sour at the same time being a sports fan. It is our own responsibility to stand up and deal with the losses of our chosen player. How can we realistically expect Roger NOT to lose form going on 32? He's just as human as you or I. The good thing is you always have the freedom to chose another player to replace Roger in your eyes.

Well I was thinking of starting a thread comparing him to Sampras... I'm not on about overall form, of course that has declined. I'm just on about how he shows up to his matches with his biggest rival e.g. FO 2011 final was extremely sour but Fed's effort and performance was commendable. Can't he put just half of that mental effort in against Rafa in big matches? Like I said though I'm in no position to criticise which I wasn't and maybe he knows something that we don't.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:HN you've taken LFs joke pretty seriously.

I wasnt taken LF´s joke seriously I was taking Common Sense response to it woth a ????if your look back at the posting.
I can fully understand why any fan of Roger´s would be disappointed and looking for a better explanation
But I am totally convinced that Roger has more problems with his back than he wants to admit.. hence his extended holiday in the sun this year. As I say he does not now like night matches because I suppose of sweating and the cold air (especially if there is a wind) but notice next time, if he does play night matches) he has taken to wearing two shirts. Lets be honest the man has given so much to the sport it must be very difficult for him to realise that his time is coming to an end. And for his fans also who have my commiserations.

@ HN: Of course you're free to ignore well-documented details of nadal's foul play if that makes you feel better. But I have not met another astute tennis fan who doesn't know about the relevant incidences I mentioned.

As for the rest, I stand by every word I wrote.

C:S you have been looking for a wind-up ever since you came on the forum this morning.. you are blatantly wumming and Im sorry to disappoint but I will not satisfy you by responding... go play somewhere else

CS I applaud you. To just come in and off the bat be incredibly negative is an achievement of note. In the words of my old high school social worker: "Whats wrong?" (asked with my puppy dog eyes

break_in_the_fifth wrote:

CommonSense wrote:

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Though I don't think anyone expected Fed to win I think most expected him to put up some kind of resistance and take at least a set if not making one or both of them very competitive. Match up issue or none, he's a much better player than, as some have mentioned, someone like Ferrer. Perhaps Fed doesn't see the difference between losing in a close match or losing like he did and doesn't care anymore. Maybe he knows something we don't. Up til now he was the greatest for me and seeing as I don't use statistics to make the final decision, this consistent loss of form when needed the most is really starting to affect his standing in my eyes.

Sorry, could I say that you're a bit unfair in criticizing the best (and aging) player in tennis history for the way he wants to play his matches. He didn't hoard the best tennis records thus far for no reasons. I guess we have to take the sweet with the sour at the same time being a sports fan. It is our own responsibility to stand up and deal with the losses of our chosen player. How can we realistically expect Roger NOT to lose form going on 32? He's just as human as you or I. The good thing is you always have the freedom to chose another player to replace Roger in your eyes.

Well I was thinking of starting a thread comparing him to Sampras... I'm not on about overall form, of course that has declined. I'm just on about how he shows up to his matches with his biggest rival e.g. FO 2011 final was extremely sour but Fed's effort and performance was commendable. Can't he put just half of that mental effort in against Rafa in big matches? Like I said though I'm in no position to criticise which I wasn't and maybe he knows something that we don't.

Break--I encourage you to please do the FED-SAM comparison thread. I think you'll renew your admiration for how much greater Roger is when you line up and evaluate their respective records side by side. Interestingly, Sampras was the first one to render the GOAT status to Fed when the Swiss won FO.

I also agree with you that it's very disappointing and frustrating to see that Fed didn't bother to make the match just a little more competitive. Like I questioned in my first post above, how could he possibly have played worse than in IW vs Nadal recently when he had a real bad problem? I'd like to think that the one with the most experience winning slams must have something up his sleeves.

And btw, I don't think LF was joking about Fed tanking if you consider that in the relevant context of the FO seeding.

hn & kingraf,

Oops, a couple of people are sounding curiously defensive and insecure. I wonder why. Is this a Nadal Fan Site for pro-nadal comments only? OK, then I'm posting in the wrong forum.

I agree that Aus Open 2009 was a big turning point for the rivalry; excuses can be made for Fed's generally poor showing in 2008, but there was no hiding place for Fed in that match. Since then although they may play some lovely stuff, each time they go onto Court it's been Nadal's to lose. Sure, Nadal can't afford to drop his level too far, but if he avoids that he almost guarantees running out the winner except for the last refuge of indoors, which Fed has defended with remarkable proficiency.

Now Fed is 32 nobody should forget that he's moving from main challenger to elderly statesman/dark horse.

Haddie-nuff wrote:C:S you have been looking for a wind-up ever since you came on the forum this morning.. you are blatantly wumming and Im sorry to disappoint but I will not satisfy you by responding... go play somewhere else

hn: I'm very confused. Do you own this site? What give you the right to banish another poster? Why is it my problem when I post material you can't handle?

Moderators: Please read my posts and confirm hn's accusation that I'm "wumming", whatever that means, I don't even know. Please just tell me so if I'm not fit to post here. No problem. I shall depart on my own accord.

I was going to post about how unlikely it was that Fed tanked the match, and that I agree with H-N re: Fed's back. I think he started wearing that 'undershirt' at the AO this year, but it might have been before then. It's clearly an on-going problem that's giving him trouble.
And I was going to say that it's almost impossible to compare Sampras and Fed due to the way the game has changed over what some call their different 'eras'.

But now I'm worried that if I say any of that I'll be called a Nadal Fan

I note this with amusement:-
H-N says "I have always given him (Federer) credit for being the utmost professional, a man with integrity"
CS says "Is this a Nadal Fan Site for pro-nadal comments only?"


CS you can say what you want about any tennis player (except libel), and about other poster's arguments, but not about other posters themselves.

JuliusHMarx wrote:I agree with H-N re: Fed's back. I think he started wearing that 'undershirt' at the AO this year, but it might have been before then. It's clearly an on-going problem that's giving him trouble.

Is the undershirt not simply because he's hit an age where people start wearing vests?

It's one of the milestones of ageing.

I suspect that back home he also has an old pair of jeans for wearing "round the house" and a bit of wood in his shed that is especially for stirring paint.

JuliusHMarx wrote:I was going to post about how unlikely it was that Fed tanked the match, and that I agree with H-N re: Fed's back. I think he started wearing that 'undershirt' at the AO this year, but it might have been before then. It's clearly an on-going problem that's giving him trouble.
And I was going to say that it's almost impossible to compare Sampras and Fed due to the way the game has changed over what some call their different 'eras'.

But now I'm worried that if I say any of that I'll be called a Nadal Fan

I note this with amusement:-
H-N says "I have always given him (Federer) credit for being the utmost professional, a man with integrity"
CS says "Is this a Nadal Fan Site for pro-nadal comments only?"


CS you can say what you want about any tennis player (except libel), and about other poster's arguments, but not about other posters themselves.

First thing first. I find it more amusing that you take no issue with another poster initiating hostility by hitting me with "wumming" but I'm not allowed to defend myself ?

HM Murdoch wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:I agree with H-N re: Fed's back. I think he started wearing that 'undershirt' at the AO this year, but it might have been before then. It's clearly an on-going problem that's giving him trouble.

Is the undershirt not simply because he's hit an age where people start wearing vests?

It's one of the milestones of ageing.

I suspect that back home he also has an old pair of jeans for wearing "round the house" and a bit of wood in his shed that is especially for stirring paint.

haha - the trouble with Fed is that, a bit like Kate Middleton, he's been so middle-aged for so long the transition will be very difficult to spot.