Delon Armitage - hero or villain?

by MarcusHalberstram Sun 19 May 2013, 2:10 am

First topic message reminder :

In my view, Armitage's try "celebration" single handedly turned a team that no one really likes that much anyway - into the probably the most unpopular winners of a major rugby tournament of all time. Interested to know if you guys and girls found it as offensive and obnoxious as I did!

by R!skysports Tue 21 May 2013, 1:47 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

I have neither connection, but, as much as I didn't care for his gesture, the criticism he has received is wildly overdone.

I think in isolation the gesture is poor sportsmanship, but not the end of the world

I think the problem for him, he now has a history of being a thug (off ball hits, late hits and shoulder charges) and a poor sport - so gets condemned more than some

Maybe unfair, but I think he has set his stall out

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 1:49 pm

I don't particularly like that sort of thing but I'm not that adverse to it. What annoys me more is the hypocrisy in some circles relating to some forms of cheating being ok and other the death of rugby, but that's a different issue.

It would have been wonderful if a penalty had been given for unsporting behaviour. Anyone remember when Scarlets player (Roberts?) was penalised for shouting when trying to charge down someone in open play? That was ridiculous

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue 21 May 2013, 1:50 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

I have neither connection, but, as much as I didn't care for his gesture, the criticism he has received is wildly overdone.

It doesnt make me like him any more or less. Im indifferent on this one as I havent seen Delon Armitage play Rugby ~~him do something like this~~ before. However, while I found it funny at the time as a spectator I know that no coach I have ever had would stand for that kinda silly stuff.

by R!skysports Tue 21 May 2013, 1:52 pm

From the Mail. Jan 12

Delon Armitage has been arrested over allegations of assault in the latest controversy involving an England player.

The London Irish full-back, who was part of the team that flopped at the World Cup, is being probed by police.
He was detained over an incident in a Torquay nightclub early on Sunday morning.

A statement from Devon and Cornwall police read: 'In the early hours of Sunday the 29th January 2012 a 28-year-old man from the Middlesex area was arrested in Torquay on suspicion of assault following an altercation in a local nightclub.

'The man was taken to Torquay police station and interviewed regarding the incident. He was later released on police bail until 21 March 2012 while investigations continue. A local man received a split lip during the incident but did not require medical treatment.'
Armitage, who was snubbed for the Six Nations squad, has now been axed from the Saxons.

------

Most of the problems have been of a disciplinary nature and they began last January with an eight-week ban for pushing and verbally abusing a doping officer.

Since then, Armitage has served further suspensions for punching Stephen Myler of Northampton (three weeks), a dangerous tackle on Scotland’s Chris Paterson (one week), and the combined charge of a dangerous tackle on Tom Biggs and striking Dave Attwood with a knee during a game against Bath at the Madejski Stadium (five weeks).

by GunsGerms Tue 21 May 2013, 1:56 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

I have neither connection, but, as much as I didn't care for his gesture, the criticism he has received is wildly overdone.

It doesnt make me like him any more or less. Im indifferent on this one as I havent seen Delon Armitage play Rugby ~~him do something like this~~ before. However, while I found it funny at the time as a spectator I know that no coach I have ever had would stand for that kinda silly stuff.

Im aware of Armitage's rap sheet. All Im saying is I havent seen him wave at defenders like this before. Its not like Ashton where he knows he is Wee weeing everyone off but continues to do it.

by HongKongCherry Tue 21 May 2013, 2:07 pm

There are a lot of comments suggesting that if any other player had done this we wouldn't be discussing it and it was only his previous record that he is being judged on. But isn't that the whole point? He has shown he has completely failed to learn from his prior mistakes. He may not be trying to take the head of an opponent or push a doping officer, but he is behaviour was that of an idiot. I don't think anyone wants the game to go down the route of football where there is petty goading between players and supporters. I personally really dislike football now (whereas I used to really enjoy it); the histrionics of the players, managers and fans are just pathetic and I certainly don't want that coming into rugby. Moore has received some rather PC criticism for inciting violence; maybe I'm from the old school but I'd have seen nothing wrong if James had clocked him one.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 21 May 2013, 2:32 pm

red_stag wrote:Asbo - who has Toulon connections?

Speaking of forums/social media outlets more widely, Stag

by **George Carlin** Tue 21 May 2013, 2:39 pm

5 people have actually voted that the game needs more people like Armitage. picard

Sure. Why eff around. Let's go the whole hog and get Danny Grewcock to give the first seminar on how to start a fight in an empty room.

by Guest Tue 21 May 2013, 2:46 pm

Delon undeniably does stupid things from time to time, but often things are taken out of context or blown out of proportion.

The doping officer as a case in point. That happened immediately after LI had lost to Bath with the last penalty kick of the game - it was the 9th game LI had lost in a row. Delon was just coming off the field when he encountered the officer. I think that, in that context, its pretty understandable that he was disappointed and upset and lashed out. Many people would feel like that in that situation.

The issue in Ulster, as I understand it, was that someone was trying to taunt him by calling him a "Spide" (Northern Irish word for Chav). He didn't know the meaning of the word, not being from Belfast and all, and thought that it was a racial slur.

We defend him at LI because we know him better than fans of other clubs. LI players tend to fly under the radar, as we're not a very high profile club, meaning that Delon only makes headlines when he's done something wrong. We see all of the good stuff that he does that doesn't make headlines. Context doesn't excuse it, but I think that it shows the guy in a different light.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 21 May 2013, 2:53 pm

mawhis wrote:Delon only makes headlines when he's done something wrong.

Last Saturday was a perfect opportunity for him to put himself in the headlines for the right reasons - and he blew it.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 3:00 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

You know me better than that mate. If one of ours has done wrong I will say so, and there have been times when Delon has deserved what he's got, but I do feel this has been blown well out of proportion.

by HongKongCherry Tue 21 May 2013, 3:05 pm

mawhis wrote:Delon undeniably does stupid things from time to time, but often things are taken out of context or blown out of proportion.

The doping officer as a case in point. That happened immediately after LI had lost to Bath with the last penalty kick of the game - it was the 9th game LI had lost in a row. Delon was just coming off the field when he encountered the officer. I think that, in that context, its pretty understandable that he was disappointed and upset and lashed out. Many people would feel like that in that situation.

I don't want to open up old discussions, but there is absolutely no excuse for behaving that way. We've all had bad days, but we don't all feel the need to behave like a thug because of it.

by Guest Tue 21 May 2013, 3:07 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:
mawhis wrote:Delon undeniably does stupid things from time to time, but often things are taken out of context or blown out of proportion.

The doping officer as a case in point. That happened immediately after LI had lost to Bath with the last penalty kick of the game - it was the 9th game LI had lost in a row. Delon was just coming off the field when he encountered the officer. I think that, in that context, its pretty understandable that he was disappointed and upset and lashed out. Many people would feel like that in that situation.

I don't want to open up old discussions, but there is absolutely no excuse for behaving that way. We've all had bad days, but we don't all feel the need to behave like a thug because of it.

and yet you feel that Brock James would have been justified if he'd smacked Delon in the Face?

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 3:07 pm

Riskysports wrote:From the Mail. Jan 12

Delon Armitage has been arrested over allegations of assault in the latest controversy involving an England player.

The London Irish full-back, who was part of the team that flopped at the World Cup, is being probed by police.
He was detained over an incident in a Torquay nightclub early on Sunday morning.

A statement from Devon and Cornwall police read: 'In the early hours of Sunday the 29th January 2012 a 28-year-old man from the Middlesex area was arrested in Torquay on suspicion of assault following an altercation in a local nightclub.

'The man was taken to Torquay police station and interviewed regarding the incident. He was later released on police bail until 21 March 2012 while investigations continue. A local man received a split lip during the incident but did not require medical treatment.'
Armitage, who was snubbed for the Six Nations squad, has now been axed from the Saxons.

------

Most of the problems have been of a disciplinary nature and they began last January with an eight-week ban for pushing and verbally abusing a doping officer.

Since then, Armitage has served further suspensions for punching Stephen Myler of Northampton (three weeks), a dangerous tackle on Scotland’s Chris Paterson (one week), and the combined charge of a dangerous tackle on Tom Biggs and striking Dave Attwood with a knee during a game against Bath at the Madejski Stadium (five weeks).

Absolutely deserved.
Utter nonsense when Andy Robinson came out and said he wouldn't have cited any other player for it. So cited on reputation which then inflates his rap sheet and ensures his reputation is far worse than it should be.
Last ditch attempt at a tackle as the full back coming across to the winger which was high and had to be punished. Happens in a lot of games.
Again, this happens a lot in games and goes unpunished. I was about 5 metres away when Joe Simpson slid knee first into Shane geraghty's head after he scored this season. Outcome = No punishment. Same standard applied to all in disciplinary terms? Don't think so!

Look, Delon is no saint, but nor is he the devil. He's done wrong at times and he knows it, but there a lot worse things that go on on a rugby pitch at times that go unpunished and uncommented on, and in some cases are even lauded.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 3:08 pm

No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

by funnyExiledScot Tue 21 May 2013, 3:11 pm

I quite agree. There's no justification for that sort of behaviour, regardless of the circumstances.

We've all felt at certain stages like taking out our frustration on people - our ability to restrain ourselves is what makes us civilised adults.

Pushing and verbally abusing an official is never acceptable. Never.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 3:16 pm

red_stag wrote:No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

Is that question aimed at me?

by HongKongCherry Tue 21 May 2013, 3:27 pm

mawhis wrote:
HongKongCherry wrote:
mawhis wrote:Delon undeniably does stupid things from time to time, but often things are taken out of context or blown out of proportion.

The doping officer as a case in point. That happened immediately after LI had lost to Bath with the last penalty kick of the game - it was the 9th game LI had lost in a row. Delon was just coming off the field when he encountered the officer. I think that, in that context, its pretty understandable that he was disappointed and upset and lashed out. Many people would feel like that in that situation.

I don't want to open up old discussions, but there is absolutely no excuse for behaving that way. We've all had bad days, but we don't all feel the need to behave like a thug because of it.

and yet you feel that Brock James would have been justified if he'd smacked Delon in the Face?

Absolutely. What goes on the pitch, stays on the pitch. The doping officer is not a player, he was just doing the job he's paid to do. Armitage is not paid to push officials or act like a prat.

I fully appreciate the double standards here, but they are 2 very different situations. Rugby has always had an aspect of self policing, both on the pitch and in the crowd. Any nonsense and it's dealt with, hence why I wouldn't have minded James to smack Armitage. But pushing the doping officer is after the match and at which point his behaviour just becomes plain yobbish and anti-social.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 3:41 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

Is that question aimed at me?

Yes I just dont see how you can keep turning a blind eye to these incidents. Wasn't he arrested outside a nightclub last year too.

Honestly the sooner his career finishes up the better rugby will be. Dreadful role model for anyone and hard to believe any fan could stand by him.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 21 May 2013, 3:43 pm

red_stag wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

Is that question aimed at me?

Yes I just dont see how you can keep turning a blind eye to these incidents. Wasn't he arrested outside a nightclub last year too.

Honestly the sooner his career finishes up the better rugby will be. Dreadful role model for anyone and hard to believe any fan could stand by him.

Yep, in Torbados

by Artful_Dodger Tue 21 May 2013, 3:46 pm

red_stag wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

Is that question aimed at me?

Yes I just dont see how you can keep turning a blind eye to these incidents. Wasn't he arrested outside a nightclub last year too.

Honestly the sooner his career finishes up the better rugby will be. Dreadful role model for anyone and hard to believe any fan could stand by him.

I agree, I can't understand why people defend him. Unless its because he was a London Irish player and London Irish fans still feel the need to defend him which doesn't make much sense to me. His allegations of racism against Matt McCullough to cover up his own indiscretions is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in rugby.

by Guest Tue 21 May 2013, 4:11 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:
red_stag wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

Is that question aimed at me?

Yes I just dont see how you can keep turning a blind eye to these incidents. Wasn't he arrested outside a nightclub last year too.

Honestly the sooner his career finishes up the better rugby will be. Dreadful role model for anyone and hard to believe any fan could stand by him.

I agree, I can't understand why people defend him. Unless its because he was a London Irish player and London Irish fans still feel the need to defend him which doesn't make much sense to me. His allegations of racism against Matt McCullough to cover up his own indiscretions is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in rugby.

I addressed the doping officer incident as well as the incident in belfast earlier in this thread.

as for the arrest, here's Stuart Lancaster talking about Delon's first and only arrest, for fighting in a Torquay nightclub, leading to the end of his international career:

We take issues surrounding the behaviour of England players very seriously and as such have decided to suspend Delon from the Saxons pending the result of the police inquiry. We will then consider if further action is appropriate under the EPS code of conduct

High standards of behaviour are required from England players and they also need to understand that they should not put themselves in a potentially vulnerable position.
'It’s extremely disappointing, but we have made the right decision in response to this. I had no option, to be honest. I think the message will get through.

Compare that with Lancaster's comments on Danny Care's third alchohol related arrest, which came at a time when he was also on police bail for sexual assault, which didn't lead to the end of his England career:

In order to be an England player on the field you have to be able to lead yourself off the field. Danny needed to reassure me he could,

I met Danny. I am pleased with the progress he has made and the maturity he is now showing off the field.

It is a great opportunity but equally he knows he is treading a very fine line, but I trust him enough to have the confidence to take him.

He is a player in form and playing at a good club who are in a big semi-final this weekend.

I've taken the liberty of emphasising the reason for the difference in the treatment of the two players, and also part of the reason that LI fans stick up for Delon.

by stnick88 Tue 21 May 2013, 4:12 pm

I can't believe some mug has said rugby would be better off without him.

if you didn't know anything about him and read some of these ridiculous comments you would of thought the bloke was a murderer.

never read such a load of s hit in all my life.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 4:22 pm

stnick88 wrote:I can't believe some mug has said rugby would be better off without him.

Would it not be?

What does he bring to the game. There are lots of talented players out there. However there are few people as idiotic as this bloke.

Would it not be better if those illegal hits were there? Would it not be better for the Heineken Cup this year to be rememeber for the rugby rather than the controversey. Would it not be better for rugby if doping officers were not assaulted? Was it right for him to start swearing on social media at those who criticised his stupidity?

Of course rugby would be better off without him.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 4:38 pm

red_stag wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:No mention of his assualt on a drugs officer?

Is that question aimed at me?

Yes I just dont see how you can keep turning a blind eye to these incidents. Wasn't he arrested outside a nightclub last year too.

Honestly the sooner his career finishes up the better rugby will be. Dreadful role model for anyone and hard to believe any fan could stand by him.

Yes he was arrested outside a nightclub. First rugby player that's happened to? No, thought not. I have no proper knowledge of what happened other than he was arrested for assault and the victim had a split lip, the allegation being that he punched him. Wasn't there, can't comment other than to say if we are condemning every rugby player that punched somebody off of the rugby pitch then there are a few more who might need a thread of their own.

Look, I've said already, Delon is no saint, but everything he does is blown up well out of proportion which just inflates the negative way in which he is perceived. The thing with the drugs officer is a case in point. It gets churned out regularly as 'an assault on the doping officer' or 'he struck the doping officer'. If you acrually read the judgement, here's how the doping officer in question describes it...

"5. Bath won the game. Immediately after the final whistle, the Player left the pitch and headed for the dressing room. Mr Thompson saw him coming down the steps, positioned himself about five yards in front of the home team dressing room and tried to introduce himself to the Player by showing his accreditation and telling him he had to provide a sample for testing. The Player used his right hand to push Mr Thompson out of the way of the doors of the dressing room and said: “Get out of my f***ing way” and then went into the dressing room. Mr Thompson said there was no violence in the push, it was more of a sideways brush off as the Player pushed past him."

I'm not saying what he did is right, he should have just stopped, but brushing somebody away as you go past is not how this incident is normally portrayed, and is very different to how people would seem to like to think the incident was. He also adds...

"7. This exchange took no more than about two minutes, after which the Player complied with the instruction and accompanied Mr Thompson to the allocated office. When there Mr Thompson started to complete the doping control form and asked the player for confirmation of his name. The Player said: “F***ing ignorant c**t. Are you taking the f***ing urine you condescending Muppet, I could f***ing well hit you, you little c**t”. Mr Thompson then asked for further details for the doping control form. He said the Player continued to be abusive making comments such as: “I do not give my telephone number out to f***ing c**ts like you.” Mr Thompson said that he had heard players swear before but what took this over the line and made him decide to register a complaint was the threatening language. Nevertheless he never actually felt unsafe or at risk of violence.

8. Other people came into the room towards the end of this second exchange. Mr Thompson said that the Player’s demeanour changed and he subsequently complied with the testing requirements. Later analysis of his sample indicated an absence of any prohibited substances."

So he never felt unsafe or at risk of violence, and by his own submission Delon brushed him off and swore at him whilst completing the test. Also, interestingly, Mr Thompson asserts that Delon's demeanour changed when others came into the room. More than one way of looking at that. Either Delon changed in a split second from Mr Angry to being a reasonable chap, or perhaps he wasn't as bad to start with, because nobody else seems to have witnessed all the abuse.

From the viewpoint that I always take with these things, with my detectives hat on, there is no independant evidence in this matter. All three witnesses were from London Irish and talked about seeing Mr Thompson put hands on Delon in the changing room. In a police investigation, this matter would not even get charged, let alone end up in a court. Yet, on the balance of probablities, which is where disciplinary hearings reach a verdict, it is decided that Delon is an absolute thug and gets 12 weeks reduced to 8 as he admitted swearing.

Things are not always black and white. I reiterate, Delon is no angel, but he is portrayed at times to be the devil, which he is not.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 4:40 pm

red_stag wrote:
stnick88 wrote:I can't believe some mug has said rugby would be better off without him.

Would it not be?

What does he bring to the game. There are lots of talented players out there. However there are few people as idiotic as this bloke.

Would it not be better if those illegal hits were there? Would it not be better for the Heineken Cup this year to be rememeber for the rugby rather than the controversey. Would it not be better for rugby if doping officers were not assaulted? Was it right for him to start swearing on social media at those who criticised his stupidity?

Of course rugby would be better off without him.

But it was alright for Brian Moore to say on social media that he would punch him? If we're going to apply standards to peoples behaviour then it needs to be the same for all.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 21 May 2013, 4:42 pm

He is a bit of a douche and it was a douchy way to celebrate the try, though it was a big try to score. I just don't rate him as a rugby player either (looking good behind an utterly dominate pack and counterattacking off the inevitable kicking this leads to when your fellow backs are not exactly known for flair hardly makes me think he has improved from the show-pony he was in the UK), and I rate Brown, Foden, Goode and May above him for different things for England, add in Hogg and Halfpenny and Byrne and Kearney for the Lions and then all the SH 15s and you have a big ego on a good but not great player. To react like that to Moore is laughable and this isn't the first time that Armitage has shown his douchesque nature on or off the field

by SecretFly Tue 21 May 2013, 4:47 pm

I'd ban him and Moore. Fairness all round???? .. Less clap and less trap. Wink

by MrsP Tue 21 May 2013, 4:49 pm

Ozzy,

The "wave at James" thing is a bit of a nonsense alright. Not the sort of behaviour we would hope to see maybe but not anything to worry about in isolation.

The behaviour towards the Doping Official is something much more concerning.

If someone spoke like that to a police officer who had stopped them for a traffic stop, what would happen?

He is a professional rugby player. Post match testing is part of his job. I get that he was not in the best of form at the time but that is just plain unacceptable.

The suggestion that the official might have been less than truthful is not fair.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 4:49 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:
stnick88 wrote:I can't believe some mug has said rugby would be better off without him.

Would it not be?

What does he bring to the game. There are lots of talented players out there. However there are few people as idiotic as this bloke.

Would it not be better if those illegal hits were there? Would it not be better for the Heineken Cup this year to be rememeber for the rugby rather than the controversey. Would it not be better for rugby if doping officers were not assaulted? Was it right for him to start swearing on social media at those who criticised his stupidity?

Of course rugby would be better off without him.

But it was alright for Brian Moore to say on social media that he would punch him? If we're going to apply standards to peoples behaviour then it needs to be the same for all.

How is it the same. Moore (a paid rugby journalist) said he would have retaliated on the field if provoked in that way. Armitage acted in his unsurprisingly disrespectful manner on the pitch and followed it up by making a public response to Moore with insults and profanity.

Are you suggesting that it was ok to make that statement publically.

by stnick88 Tue 21 May 2013, 4:49 pm

CJ - fair comment, he looks very good behind Toulons pack. But arguably his best form was for Irish and England when he was certainly not behind a dominant pack (especially for Irish)

by ChequeredJersey Tue 21 May 2013, 4:50 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
red_stag wrote:
stnick88 wrote:I can't believe some mug has said rugby would be better off without him.

Would it not be?

What does he bring to the game. There are lots of talented players out there. However there are few people as idiotic as this bloke.

Would it not be better if those illegal hits were there? Would it not be better for the Heineken Cup this year to be rememeber for the rugby rather than the controversey. Would it not be better for rugby if doping officers were not assaulted? Was it right for him to start swearing on social media at those who criticised his stupidity?

Of course rugby would be better off without him.

But it was alright for Brian Moore to say on social media that he would punch him? If we're going to apply standards to peoples behaviour then it needs to be the same for all.

No, it wasn't. But Moore is known for his honesty and for, despite his good points, not being a good role model

by funnyExiledScot Tue 21 May 2013, 4:51 pm

Ozzy - have you posted that dialogue in order to defend Armitage?? Armitage admitted to using that language towards an official. I don't think it matters particularly whether the official felt threatened or not. Use of that sort of language towards an official, which Armitage has admitted, is disgusting.

by HongKongCherry Tue 21 May 2013, 4:52 pm

Thanks for sharing Ozzy, I had misunderstood the situation as I was of the understanding that he was pushed. I have referred to him as a thug due to this incident, Torquay and his track record for high tackles, so I retract that in the sense I initially meant it.

I do have to say, what an arrogant to55er! The official may not have felt threatened, but why should he have to put up with abuse like that? If a player said that to the ref we'd all be up in arms, so how does this differ?

My opinion of him has changed. He is less of a thug than I had given him credit for, but he is more of a prized prat too!

I do have to say that I agree with Red Stag that rugby would be better off without him, but to counter that his crimes aren't bad enough that he should be banned either. I'd far rather he just sort himself out than be removed from the game, as there is no doubting his talent.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 4:55 pm

MrsP

I am not saying that his behaviour towards the doping officer was acceptable, or that the doping officer was untruthful. I am merely making the point that we can take any incident and put whatever spin we want on it. Delon should have stayed on the pitch with his team mates at the end and his decision to run off as he was in a strop as we'd just lost the match was a poor one. Having run off he should have just got on with doing the test. I am not condoning his language and attitude towards the doping officer, but there are those who would seek to distort the facts and portay that Delon beat the man to within an inch of his life in the tunnel.

Going slightly off topic to your question about what would happen if somebody spoke to a police officer like that, sadly the truth is very little. That sort of language would constitute an offence of section 5 public order, and CPS guidance is that police officers cannot be offended by that sort of language as hearing it is part and parcel of our job.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 4:56 pm

For all my comments on his conduct I do think he is a good player, very talented and will in all likelihood continue to start when Toulon sign Brian Habana and Drew Mitchell.

I sincerely hope that having all these experienced internationals around him will teach him something about the sport and I'd hope that a captain or coach would have a word when the dust settles.

Going to the RWC he was insisting that he had changed his silly ways and was all apologies. Clearly he hasn't.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 4:59 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Ozzy - have you posted that dialogue in order to defend Armitage?? Armitage admitted to using that language towards an official. I don't think it matters particularly whether the official felt threatened or not. Use of that sort of language towards an official, which Armitage has admitted, is disgusting.

I have posted it to highlight a point, which is that the incident may not be as some believe it to be or prtray it to be. I've not said his language is acceptable, and for the record he did not admit to use of the C word, only to use of the F word. Yes he was out of order, I have said that enough times here, but he is nowhere near as bad as Stag seems to want to portray him to be.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 21 May 2013, 5:00 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:MrsP

I am not saying that his behaviour towards the doping officer was acceptable, or that the doping officer was untruthful. I am merely making the point that we can take any incident and put whatever spin we want on it. Delon should have stayed on the pitch with his team mates at the end and his decision to run off as he was in a strop as we'd just lost the match was a poor one. Having run off he should have just got on with doing the test. I am not condoning his language and attitude towards the doping officer, but there are those who would seek to distort the facts and portay that Delon beat the man to within an inch of his life in the tunnel.

Going slightly off topic to your question about what would happen if somebody spoke to a police officer like that, sadly the truth is very little. That sort of language would constitute an offence of section 5 public order, and CPS guidance is that police officers cannot be offended by that sort of language as hearing it is part and parcel of our job.

Ozzie, the key thing is that these attitude problems have been going on for a while and he clearly hasn't changed his ways. Someone earlier mentioned Care and the way SL treated them differently (which I agree was unfair and hypocritical to a degree, though SL knew Danny's character a lot better from their Leeds days) but Care, whilst stupid, has shown uniquely sporting behaviour on the pitch and made a concerted effort to change his life after his behaviour was highlighted, and all the drinking/false sexual assault charges came from the same period before they came to press, they were not independent events

by MrsP Tue 21 May 2013, 5:02 pm

Well, if any athlete spoke to an official like that I would hope that they would be severely sanctioned. The guy was doing his job. There is no way he should have to put up with that!

Wasn't there an absolute outcry recently when some politician was alleged to have said much less abusive things to some policemen outside Parliament?

Armitage should be well used to the situation of having to undergo testing and was totally out of line.

I have to say I think less of him now having read your transcript than I did before.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 5:06 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:I do have to say that I agree with Red Stag that rugby would be better off without him, but to counter that his crimes aren't bad enough that he should be banned either. I'd far rather he just sort himself out than be removed from the game, as there is no doubting his talent.

I don't think rugby needs a citing for this type of thing nor should he face a ban for it. If it was kids rugby and a player did this, a referee would blow the whistle disallow the try and the coach would give him a bolllocking. Rolland would have been lynched if he attempted in a Heineken Cup Final but he shouldnt have to. A grown rugby player should know how things are meant to be done. Especially one who is supposedly trying to improve his ill discipline and bad conduct.

Hence the reason why guys like Nick Evans and Chris Custiter spoke out to say that Armitage had no class and there was no place in the game for it.

The game would be better off without Armitage but I accept he couldnt or for that matter shouldnt be banned for that.

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 7:28 pm

The politician was slated for using the term 'pleb' at a copper. He admitted he swore at him early on but it was the pleb bit (that didn't happen) that made all the news.

I know plenty of people who talk like that generally all the time. It seems to be the way they talk in and out of work. A transcript of an event is always poor for determining what happened (other than the one specific aspect).

Also Moore isn't just a journalist he's also an employee of the licence fee funded BBC. Delon Armitage is an employee of an independent French club. Both represent their employers, both represent rugby generally. One has a reputation as a straight talking rugby guy the other as a load mouthed thug.

Armitage does come across as a knob mind and it would be better for all f he shut up (except those that like to get on their high horse of course, they need some ammo)

by Taffineastbourne Tue 21 May 2013, 7:59 pm

mawhis wrote:Delon undeniably does stupid things from time to time, but often things are taken out of context or blown out of proportion.

The doping officer as a case in point. That happened immediately after LI had lost to Bath with the last penalty kick of the game - it was the 9th game LI had lost in a row. Delon was just coming off the field when he encountered the officer. I think that, in that context, its pretty understandable that he was disappointed and upset and lashed out. Many people would feel like that in that situation.

The issue in Ulster, as I understand it, was that someone was trying to taunt him by calling him a "Spide" (Northern Irish word for Chav). He didn't know the meaning of the word, not being from Belfast and all, and thought that it was a racial slur.

We defend him at LI because we know him better than fans of other clubs. LI players tend to fly under the radar, as we're not a very high profile club, meaning that Delon only makes headlines when he's done something wrong. We see all of the good stuff that he does that doesn't make headlines. Context doesn't excuse it, but I think that it shows the guy in a different light.

A very sad post.
Trust me,the guy is a prat.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 22 May 2013, 8:11 am

red_stag wrote:For all my comments on his conduct I do think he is a good player, very talented and will in all likelihood continue to start when Toulon sign Brian Habana and Drew Mitchell.

This is an important thing to remember, and it goes some way to answering those who say Armitage is somehow being treated unfairly - the 'he only makes the headlines when he does something bad' argument. It used not to be true. When he was playing for England, he'd be in the (sports) news for being a fine player. However, because of the unnecessary off-the-ball and off-field stuff, he is no longer an England player, so for the media over here, they have no real reason to talk about him other than when he does something bad / unnecessary. So now, it is true that he only makes the headlines when he does something bad, and it's entirely his fault.

by HongKongCherry Wed 22 May 2013, 11:11 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
red_stag wrote:For all my comments on his conduct I do think he is a good player, very talented and will in all likelihood continue to start when Toulon sign Brian Habana and Drew Mitchell.

This is an important thing to remember, and it goes some way to answering those who say Armitage is somehow being treated unfairly - the 'he only makes the headlines when he does something bad' argument. It used not to be true. When he was playing for England, he'd be in the (sports) news for being a fine player. However, because of the unnecessary off-the-ball and off-field stuff, he is no longer an England player, so for the media over here, they have no real reason to talk about him other than when he does something bad / unnecessary. So now, it is true that he only makes the headlines when he does something bad, and it's entirely his fault.

Spot on.

by stnick88 Wed 22 May 2013, 11:31 am

do you not think its quite possible that during the Ulster game Delon thought he was being called a word similar to Spide? replace the I with an A.

Taffineastbourne, do you know him personally do you?? I think I'll trust my own judgement.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 22 May 2013, 8:48 pm

stnick88 wrote:do you not think its quite possible that during the Ulster game Delon thought he was being called a word similar to Spide? replace the I with an A.

Taffineastbourne, do you know him personally do you?? I think I'll trust my own judgement.

Stnickk,you can take advice or you can ignore it.Tis a free world.
Out of interest,do you know him?anyone who behaves like a prat on a regular basis stands a pretty good chance of being a prat I have found.Then again my idea of a prat might be your idea of a top bloke.Who knows? Whistle

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 23 May 2013, 6:30 pm

Moore & Armitage are still at it on Twitter. Beyond a joke now.

Armitage serving up to Moore : https://twitter.com/delonarmitage/status/337506808686059521/photo/1

Brian Moore

Verified account ‏@brianmoore666 7h
.@delonarmitage Want to get into another row Delon? Watch the whole try and you will see I am reacting to a cheapshot knee-drop - idiot.
https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/337604969144385537/photo/1

Brian Moore

‏@brianmoore666 7h
I just posted this @delonarmitage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z8azniIPbbU … - you're not in it - why?

Sheesh

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 23 May 2013, 6:32 pm

Eliota Sapolu decided to get in on the act as well Pete, all very childish.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 23 May 2013, 6:35 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Eliota Sapolu decided to get in on the act as well Pete, all very childish.

Saw that, & it looked like someone was trying to draw in Matt Giteau too

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 23 May 2013, 6:39 pm

Though seeing as the NSW Waratahs' official account has just used a 4-letter word starting with C in response to a new article praising a Sydney RL player it appears stupidity is all too common

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