Delon Armitage - hero or villain?

by MarcusHalberstram Sun 19 May 2013, 2:10 am

First topic message reminder :

In my view, Armitage's try "celebration" single handedly turned a team that no one really likes that much anyway - into the probably the most unpopular winners of a major rugby tournament of all time. Interested to know if you guys and girls found it as offensive and obnoxious as I did!

by JmD Mon 20 May 2013, 1:32 am

People defending Armitage are acting like it's an isolated incident on an otherwise sparkling character. It isn't. He has been the same way for years. Late hits, fights, shoulder charges and now this, among many other things. His character is almost certainly the reason he wasn't a Lion in 2009. He has all the talent but no brain, no class and no desire to change.

by Looseheaded Mon 20 May 2013, 4:26 am

yappysnap wrote:
Looseheaded wrote:I understand people being cocky when they display some kind of awesome skill and rugby ability, I don't agree with it at all, but it makes some sense.

But something about a nobber like Armitage getting an easy run-in try off the back of other peoples' work only to then act like a douche about it really grinds.

That's not quite true though, in the final moments Byrne had the chance to put his hooker in at the corner from about 15m's out with no one in front but cocked it up totally, that then lead to the knock on and the loss. In the Amlin Kearney managed to touch the line before dotting down in a similar situation. There was a fair bit of skill from Delon and Lobbe (far better then Parisse to my mind) to have the nerve to go for the hail mary and the skill to take that chance.

Yes but think about it those that cocked up weren't the potential finishers. Byrne did a cack pass and Kearney had nowhere near the space/lack of pace trying to catch him down. Armitage was boasting despite having an easy run in and more natural pace than Brock James, nothing to brag about

by maestegmafia Mon 20 May 2013, 8:05 am

JmD wrote:People defending Armitage are acting like it's an isolated incident on an otherwise sparkling character. It isn't. He has been the same way for years. Late hits, fights, shoulder charges and now this, among many other things. His character is almost certainly the reason he wasn't a Lion in 2009. He has all the talent but no brain, no class and no desire to change.

His last season at London Irish saw him sit out the league four times.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 20 May 2013, 8:42 am

Maybe there's a bit of prejudice around here?

Votes about a douche from a shower methinks.

by Guest Mon 20 May 2013, 8:45 am

I saw a post yesterday that somebody tweeted, saying when Usain Bolt celebrated early for his 9:69 in Beijing, it was classed as brilliant and everybody is up in arms over Armitage. I haven't seen Armitage's wave, but I assume he was at least running at full tilt. Is there any comparison really?

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 20 May 2013, 8:52 am

THe approbrium is generated here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8PetDjG7ME RR. ~1'50''

Worthy of moral outrage and the end of sportsmanship as she is known apparently.

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 9:09 am

Bit of contrition from DA here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10067246/Heineken-Cup-final-Toulon-match-winner-Delon-Armitage-admits-showboating-on-decisive-try-against-Clermont-was-stupid.html

although I'd think more of him if he actually apologised to Brock James too.

I was making a point with the picture of Niko.

Armitage has used up all of the presumed 'good faith' to which he might have ever been entitled. Matawalu plays with joy and is gracious to opposing players and fans. That's why fans from other teams like him.

Armitage, on the other hand, has shown every inclination over the years of being disrespectful towards everyone. Why is this difficult to understand? As someone pointed out above, why are some people talking as though these judgements are premature or there is no previous history with the player?

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 20 May 2013, 9:23 am

Risca Rev wrote:I saw a post yesterday that somebody tweeted, saying when Usain Bolt celebrated early for his 9:69 in Beijing, it was classed as brilliant and everybody is up in arms over Armitage. I haven't seen Armitage's wave, but I assume he was at least running at full tilt. Is there any comparison really?

I think the difference is that posturing, if not showboating, has been part of sprinting for a while now, certainly in the 100 metres. In Bolt's case, it was less his premature celebration that people liked, it was more the fact that he managed to break the world record despite seeming to stop trying over the last ten metres.

I hate what Armitage did on Saturday. It was pathetic. You don't wave goodbye to a fellow player like that.

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 9:32 am

Worth repeating Brian Moore's full column in the Torygraph here.

Typical of a lawyer, the understatement about Armitage is just right.

Delon Armitage's behaviour was not in keeping with the spirit Toulon showed when winning the Heineken Cup

The majority of the audience for Saturday’s Heineken Cup final were technically neutral but few did not have a temporary allegiance for Clermont or Toulon.

By Brian Moore
7:28AM BST 20 May 2013

The reason behind each choice was interesting and was fuelled by pre-match hyperbole about the composition of the teams, their players and their styles of rugby.

Clermont were said to be the better team, capable of playing in a variety of ways and with a delicious amalgam of power up front and the dangerous running abilities of a back three that any club side would covet.

The fact is that for most of the game Clermont were clearly the better side. Aurélien Rougerie made a nonsense of Mathieu Bastareaud’s man-of-the-match tag while he was on the field, shredding the Clermont line on several occasions and making a significant contribution to both his side’s tries. When you added the not inconsiderable touches of Wesley Fofana and Brock James you would have thought that when they led 15-6 they would smoothly cruise away to claim the European title that many thought was theirs for the asking.

What transpired thereafter demonstrated the value, if further evidence were needed, of big-game experience. Toulon have been labelled a bunch of multinational mercenaries bought with the market-distorting chequebook of a comic-owning millionaire.

This description may have a scintilla of truth but what many fail to understand is that you cannot achieve success by salary alone. Money cannot buy team unity; it does not forge the spirit that is necessary to face the teeth of the storm and fashion the collective will to resist the seemingly unbearable pressure and make the physical sacrifices needed to stay in the game.

In Bakkies Botha, Chris Masoe and Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe Toulon possess three players who, while of advancing years, are denizens of the world of the enforcers. Their refusal to submit to ceaseless waves of Clermont runners, aided by Bastareaud’s impressive defensive effort in the final 15 minutes, meant they won a game they had no right to win – in any fair world. That this world does not exist in sport is one of its greatest attractions because it allows the mentally tough to triumph and it was there that Toulon based their victory.

Jonny Wilkinson has his devotees and detractors in equal measure though the latter are more often than not inspired purely by the former and not any sound rugby reasons. He did his usual exemplary kicking from hand and at goal, something that critics dismiss as mundane when it is anything but.

What most did not see but which is apparent from re-watching the game is the astonishing amount of work he did in defence, both front up and as a sweeper behind the first up line. Time and again he was the tackler who stopped a partial break becoming a full breach or was second man into the breakdown to slow the winning of the ball down by the crucial second needed for his team-mates to realign.

Much has been said of Wilkinson’s frail body but on this evidence it can only be so if you judge it against the task of playing multiple successive games because in speed and power nothing was lacking. If Wilkinson does not receive a call from Warren Gatland, who has no reason not to chose a 38th squad member, the Lions will deprive themselves of a hugely experienced player who demonstrably is capable of keeping his head and closing out games in the last 20 minutes.

In the end Toulon deserve great praise, as does coach Bernard Laporte, because any elite player will tell you that the spirit that was writ large in their Heineken Cup win is rare; it is certainly not something that you achieve in a couple of seasons.

All of which makes the behaviour of Toulon full-back Delon Armitage all the more regrettable. A player possibly sufficiently gifted to go on this and the last Lions tour should not be the talking point of a game for any reason other than his rugby. Even accounting for Rougerie’s pat on the head in the first half, Armitage’s unprofessional taunting of James on the way to scoring Toulon’s crucial comeback try was poor.

Many former and current players joined me in condemning Armitage on social media and while my tweet that said such mocking would have drawn a physical response was provocative, Armitage’s Wildean retort showed he has learnt nothing from his many previous outbursts. The attitude displayed in his abusive tweet, which said ‘any time you fat p----, go and write another s--- book’ is the reason England and the Lions are happy to leave him in France – which is a shame.

Ba-DOW.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 20 May 2013, 9:53 am

There's more than a modicum of hypocricy in Ptibull's words of wisdom there as well as on this forum.

Seemingly dissisng and winding up the opposition were part of his playing rituals yet he appears to differentiate between those acts of gamesmanship and posturing in the act of scoring.

Even in Ireland and England where crowds are 'respectful' of kickers, the moronic yelping and off-putting is now a pandemic.

Who'd have guessed that in a professional era try celebrations would have emerged and that some would go over the top (which I don't really feel that Armitage in this instance did any more than you see).

If someone could explain to me why Delon was disrespectful as opposed to say a successful scrum or a turnover or whatever resulting in a penalty /free kick etc. merits the opposition players to ridicule by head patting or smirking at the miscreant is not disrespectful, I'd like to hear their reasoning.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 20 May 2013, 9:55 am

George Carlin wrote:Worth repeating Brian Moore's full column in the Torygraph here.

Typical of a lawyer, the understatement about Armitage is just right.

Delon Armitage's behaviour was not in keeping with the spirit Toulon showed when winning the Heineken Cup

The majority of the audience for Saturday’s Heineken Cup final were technically neutral but few did not have a temporary allegiance for Clermont or Toulon.

By Brian Moore
7:28AM BST 20 May 2013

The reason behind each choice was interesting and was fuelled by pre-match hyperbole about the composition of the teams, their players and their styles of rugby.

Clermont were said to be the better team, capable of playing in a variety of ways and with a delicious amalgam of power up front and the dangerous running abilities of a back three that any club side would covet.

The fact is that for most of the game Clermont were clearly the better side. Aurélien Rougerie made a nonsense of Mathieu Bastareaud’s man-of-the-match tag while he was on the field, shredding the Clermont line on several occasions and making a significant contribution to both his side’s tries. When you added the not inconsiderable touches of Wesley Fofana and Brock James you would have thought that when they led 15-6 they would smoothly cruise away to claim the European title that many thought was theirs for the asking.

What transpired thereafter demonstrated the value, if further evidence were needed, of big-game experience. Toulon have been labelled a bunch of multinational mercenaries bought with the market-distorting chequebook of a comic-owning millionaire.

This description may have a scintilla of truth but what many fail to understand is that you cannot achieve success by salary alone. Money cannot buy team unity; it does not forge the spirit that is necessary to face the teeth of the storm and fashion the collective will to resist the seemingly unbearable pressure and make the physical sacrifices needed to stay in the game.

In Bakkies Botha, Chris Masoe and Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe Toulon possess three players who, while of advancing years, are denizens of the world of the enforcers. Their refusal to submit to ceaseless waves of Clermont runners, aided by Bastareaud’s impressive defensive effort in the final 15 minutes, meant they won a game they had no right to win – in any fair world. That this world does not exist in sport is one of its greatest attractions because it allows the mentally tough to triumph and it was there that Toulon based their victory.

Jonny Wilkinson has his devotees and detractors in equal measure though the latter are more often than not inspired purely by the former and not any sound rugby reasons. He did his usual exemplary kicking from hand and at goal, something that critics dismiss as mundane when it is anything but.

What most did not see but which is apparent from re-watching the game is the astonishing amount of work he did in defence, both front up and as a sweeper behind the first up line. Time and again he was the tackler who stopped a partial break becoming a full breach or was second man into the breakdown to slow the winning of the ball down by the crucial second needed for his team-mates to realign.

Much has been said of Wilkinson’s frail body but on this evidence it can only be so if you judge it against the task of playing multiple successive games because in speed and power nothing was lacking. If Wilkinson does not receive a call from Warren Gatland, who has no reason not to chose a 38th squad member, the Lions will deprive themselves of a hugely experienced player who demonstrably is capable of keeping his head and closing out games in the last 20 minutes.

In the end Toulon deserve great praise, as does coach Bernard Laporte, because any elite player will tell you that the spirit that was writ large in their Heineken Cup win is rare; it is certainly not something that you achieve in a couple of seasons.

All of which makes the behaviour of Toulon full-back Delon Armitage all the more regrettable. A player possibly sufficiently gifted to go on this and the last Lions tour should not be the talking point of a game for any reason other than his rugby. Even accounting for Rougerie’s pat on the head in the first half, Armitage’s unprofessional taunting of James on the way to scoring Toulon’s crucial comeback try was poor.

Many former and current players joined me in condemning Armitage on social media and while my tweet that said such mocking would have drawn a physical response was provocative, Armitage’s Wildean retort showed he has learnt nothing from his many previous outbursts. The attitude displayed in his abusive tweet, which said ‘any time you fat p----, go and write another s--- book’ is the reason England and the Lions are happy to leave him in France – which is a shame.
Ba-DOW.

This isn't just a front row union comment, but Moore is hands down the best rugby pundit, writer and journalist in the UK.

And as for Armitage, he is a total muppet. I can't stand when anyone showboats like that on the way to the line. Including Visser, Ashton and the Weagie from Fiji.

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 9:55 am

It's all poopie behaviour if you ask me GT.

The sort of thing I'd expect from a wendyball-playing feckwit. Perhaps I'm just deluded in thinking that both rugby players and fans are cut from better cloth.

by R!skysports Mon 20 May 2013, 9:59 am

It does not help that he has a history of taking cheap shots, and even did a shoulder charge off the ball in this game

Some people really are the poster child for bringing back subscription

Shocked

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 20 May 2013, 10:04 am

greytiger wrote:If someone could explain to me why Delon was disrespectful as opposed to say a successful scrum or a turnover or whatever resulting in a penalty /free kick etc. merits the opposition players to ridicule by head patting or smirking at the miscreant is not disrespectful, I'd like to hear their reasoning.

I don't like to see players celebrating / mocking opponents after the awarding of a penalty, but at least they do it after the awarding of the penalty. When a player has a clear run to the line and can't be caught, then that's enough of a kick in the teeth for the opposition. You don't rub it in. Dan Luger used to do it and it was just as Muppet then.

by Bathman_in_London Mon 20 May 2013, 10:06 am

George Carlin wrote:It's all poopie behaviour if you ask me GT.

The sort of thing I'd expect from a wendyball-playing, simian feckwit. Perhaps I'm just deluded in thinking that both rugby players and fans are cut from better cloth.

Agreed. Personally I thought he was a pr1ck before and this hasn't changed my opinion of him in the slightest.

by SecretFly Mon 20 May 2013, 10:08 am

greytiger wrote:There's more than a modicum of hypocricy in Ptibull's words of wisdom there as well as on this forum.

Seemingly dissisng and winding up the opposition were part of his playing rituals yet he appears to differentiate between those acts of gamesmanship and posturing in the act of scoring.

Even in Ireland and England where crowds are 'respectful' of kickers, the moronic yelping and off-putting is now a pandemic.

Who'd have guessed that in a professional era try celebrations would have emerged and that some would go over the top (which I don't really feel that Armitage in this instance did any more than you see).

If someone could explain to me why Delon was disrespectful as opposed to say a successful scrum or a turnover or whatever resulting in a penalty /free kick etc. merits the opposition players to ridicule by head patting or smirking at the miscreant is not disrespectful, I'd like to hear their reasoning.

So let him drop his shorts and moon to the audience then. Let him urinate on the spot where he touched down as a symbolic top-dog ownership claim of the patch. It's all good...it' all "character" and signature celebration tunes in a new wide-boy professional age - ...lovely jubbly....

Oh and your question about probable 'prejudice' informing people's opinion of the act???? You're bigger than that, grey.

by Guest Mon 20 May 2013, 10:18 am

George Carlin wrote:It's all poopie behaviour if you ask me GT.

The sort of thing I'd expect from a wendyball-playing, simian feckwit. Perhaps I'm just deluded in thinking that both rugby players and fans are cut from better cloth.

phrasing? That different cloth presumably doesn't include comparing to black players to monkeys?

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 10:22 am

mawhis wrote:
George Carlin wrote:It's all poopie behaviour if you ask me GT.

The sort of thing I'd expect from a wendyball-playing, simian feckwit. Perhaps I'm just deluded in thinking that both rugby players and fans are cut from better cloth.

phrasing? That different cloth presumably doesn't include comparing to black players to monkeys?

Hmm. I see what you mean. Obviously not what I intended that to mean and I'm happy to change the original post.

It was a comment about the mindset of people who behave like that in general, not about Armitage.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 20 May 2013, 10:45 am

George Carlin wrote:
mawhis wrote:
George Carlin wrote:It's all poopie behaviour if you ask me GT.

The sort of thing I'd expect from a wendyball-playing, simian feckwit. Perhaps I'm just deluded in thinking that both rugby players and fans are cut from better cloth.

phrasing? That different cloth presumably doesn't include comparing to black players to monkeys?
Hmm. I see what you mean. Obviously not what I intended that to mean and I'm happy to change the original post.

It was a comment about the mindset of people who behave like that in general, not about Armitage.

I dunno George, simian is about right for this board.

The faux morally-superior rugger buggers are always prone to a feeding frenzy when a banana is chucked in their way.

The troupe will gather round and ape each other.

No double standards to see here. Move along please.

by SecretFly Mon 20 May 2013, 10:56 am

Grey...come on. So you enjoyed his run-in? You were right up for that display "Yeah!!!! - Get in there my son!!! - Give it lotsa palava!!!"

Well, maybe you were - I don't know. But at a guess, if you were, it's got something to do with him being English, playing in a side with quite a few English players and...well, you were up for them?

So, the idea that you're being morally neutral now in the discussion about Armitage's extra try-scoring antics is a tad difficult to swallow...... Wink

by lostinwales Mon 20 May 2013, 11:16 am

Well the one I feel sorry for is Brock James, after all how could his self esteem possibly recover from this terrible insult? Will he be able to show himself in public again or will he just have to retire from rugby slink bank to Oz and become a hermit. Bet he hasnt been off the phone, crying to his mum since the game.

by Guest Mon 20 May 2013, 11:18 am

lostinwales wrote:Well the one I feel sorry for is Brock James, after all how could his self esteem possibly recover from this terrible insult? Will he be able to show himself in public again or will he just have to retire from rugby slink bank to Oz and become a hermit. Bet he hasnt been off the phone, crying to his mum since the game.

His only hope of recovering his honour is a duel - pistols at dawn.

by SecretFly Mon 20 May 2013, 11:37 am

Nah, I'd say Brock is more worried about Delon. Afterall, he's the poor misunderstood lad, with the sensitive nature, who got mauled by a middle-aged fat man over Twitter............ and who hasn't been off the phone since, crying to his mum.

Someone should tell him there is help out there for people like him. There is a supporters network here on 606 that he could try, where he'll get kissed and cuddled and told that "nobody don't know nothing about how a young man just gets excited and doesn't mean nothing of any of it to be showing off and things....and can't help it too neither".

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 11:40 am

greytiger wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
mawhis wrote:
George Carlin wrote:It's all poopie behaviour if you ask me GT.

The sort of thing I'd expect from a wendyball-playing, simian feckwit. Perhaps I'm just deluded in thinking that both rugby players and fans are cut from better cloth.

phrasing? That different cloth presumably doesn't include comparing to black players to monkeys?
Hmm. I see what you mean. Obviously not what I intended that to mean and I'm happy to change the original post.

It was a comment about the mindset of people who behave like that in general, not about Armitage.

I dunno George, simian is about right for this board.

The faux morally-superior rugger buggers are always prone to a feeding frenzy when a banana is chucked in their way.

The troupe will gather round and ape each other.

No double standards to see here. Move along please.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 20 May 2013, 11:49 am

maestegmafia wrote:Based on what? Surely you don't think he is in the running as a fullback? He has done very little to impress me when compared with Hogg, Halfpenny, Kearney, Byrne, Foden and a number of others.

Armitage isn't in the running for the Lions but he certainly has the talent to warrant a place. He nearly made it four years ago. He's particularly attractive for a touring squad because he covers wing, full back and centre, and can kick goals. His form this year has been very good.

He was one of the few English players to have a decent World Cup in 2011. If he was playing to his current standard in England, he'd still be in the EPS.

Fortunately, we have plenty of full back candidates, so there was no need to consider him.

I used to think Delon's poor reputation was a bit unfair, but he has continued with shoulder-charge tackles in the Top14, and picked up an eight week ban for a tip tackle. His onfield discipline just isn't good enough.

As far as his taunting at the weekend goes, there are plenty of other players who get carried away in similar fashions and don't get condemned in the same way. Armitage, however, carries a lot of baggage so any action by him is going to be seen in that context.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 11:51 am

I don't mind try scoring dives, or try scoring celebrations, but waving at players on your way to the line is poor sportsmanship.

Armitage has talent, but he really needs to grow up.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 20 May 2013, 11:52 am

SecretFly wrote: Grey...come on. So you enjoyed his run-in? You were right up for that display "Yeah!!!! - Get in there my son!!! - Give it lotsa palava!!!"

Well, maybe you were - I don't know. But at a guess, if you were, it's got something to do with him being English, playing in a side with quite a few English players and...well, you were up for them?

So, the idea that you're being morally neutral now in the discussion about Armitage's extra try-scoring antics is a tad difficult to swallow......

Didn't say that SF - or anything like it.

There's quite difference to my mind between "... a tad difficult to swallow" (which I agree) and

Delon Armitage - hero or villain?

Post by MarcusHalberstram Yesterday at 2:10 am
In my view, Armitage's try "celebration" single handedly turned a team that no one really likes that much anyway - into the probably the most unpopular winners of a major rugby tournament of all time.

I just spent a bit of time contemplating a few dual standards and home truths within the sport.
But that thread could go on forever.

by SecretFly Mon 20 May 2013, 12:00 pm

Yeah...well they're/we're certainly overwriting the implications of it on both sides and Marcus overdid his stab at it for sure Wink

... I think I alluded to that fact earlier up on this threads.

No, Delon's antics weren't as dramatic as Marcus surmises but yes, he did over-milk his try time shamelessly.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 20 May 2013, 12:01 pm

greytiger wrote:
...

Even in Ireland and England where crowds are 'respectful' of kickers, the moronic yelping and off-putting is now a pandemic.

...

Just as an aside, I found it interesting at the game on Friday the the crowd clapped French-style when Parra lined up his kicks, and remained silent for Wilkinson's. A nice nod to different traditions.

Also, most of the crowd hung around for the presentations, and applauded Toulon for their win - it was also good to see the Clermont players wander around the ground thanking their fans after the presentations

by maestegmafia Mon 20 May 2013, 2:23 pm

Risca Rev wrote:I saw a post yesterday that somebody tweeted, saying when Usain Bolt celebrated early for his 9:69 in Beijing, it was classed as brilliant and everybody is up in arms over Armitage. I haven't seen Armitage's wave, but I assume he was at least running at full tilt. Is there any comparison really?

Armitages run I created by those incident him with little defence to cover is hardly compatible to a sporting great pushing the boundaries of human achievement at the greatest sporting arena we have created.

Not comparable at all.

by Knowsit17 Mon 20 May 2013, 9:03 pm

That finger is asking to be amputated.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 21 May 2013, 12:48 am

I didn't like Armitage's taunting. Mainly, it seemed inappropriate because the game wasn't anywhere near won, which is when players usually rub it in. You kept thinking he should sprint to get closer to the posts to make the conversion easier. I remember thinking the same when Manu Tuilagi scored his intercept try against the All Blacks. Also, the Heineken Cup final is a big stage. As a neutral, your heart always goes out to the losing side so you don't want to see any ungracious behaviour.

Armitage's main problem was to be so visible. He claims Clermont players were giving him a hard time on the pitch. He seems like a chippy bloke, so who knows whether that was just all in his mind. Nevertheless, if he wanted to get his revenge, he should have tried a quiet, George Gregan "four more years" type taunt to get under Brock James' skin.

I like Brian Moore, and agree with his instinctive reaction that Armitage lacked class. However, his tweet offering to chin the player isn't very respectable itself. I don't think he should continue his online flame war in the pages of a national newspaper. That also seems inappropriate.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 9:22 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:I saw a post yesterday that somebody tweeted, saying when Usain Bolt celebrated early for his 9:69 in Beijing, it was classed as brilliant and everybody is up in arms over Armitage. I haven't seen Armitage's wave, but I assume he was at least running at full tilt. Is there any comparison really?

Armitages run I created by those incident him with little defence to cover is hardly compatible to a sporting great pushing the boundaries of human achievement at the greatest sporting arena we have created.

Not comparable at all.

I only saw the incident last night, and I am frankly amazed at the uproar. It was a nothing incident which had it been any other player on the pitch would barely be getting a mention.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 21 May 2013, 10:17 am

Ozzy, for me it didn't matter who did it, and I mean that. It was just such an unsporting thing to have done.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 21 May 2013, 10:23 am

Lucky, your opinion and you are absolutely entitled to it buddy, I just fail to see how it is any more unsporting than other gestures that happen on a pitch and are widely accepted as 'part of the game'. Props patting the oppo prop on the head after winning a scrum pen has already been mentioned, but there are plenty of other examples of winding up/disrespecting the opposition that apparently ok.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 21 May 2013, 10:37 am

As I've already said, it's not nice to see props do that, but at least they wait 'til they've won the penalty. It's gutting enough to the covering defender that he's being outpaced and won't be able to prevent a try being scored, and that kind of belittling gesture has no place in the game, for me.

As for how much attention the incident has generated, it's true that Armitage's back story has contributed to that; but it was the match-winning try in the final of the biggest club tournament in Europe. That's quite a big deal regardless of who scored it.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 21 May 2013, 11:00 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:As I've already said, it's not nice to see props do that, but at least they wait 'til they've won the penalty. It's gutting enough to the covering defender that he's being outpaced and won't be able to prevent a try being scored, and that kind of belittling gesture has no place in the game, for me.

As for how much attention the incident has generated, it's true that Armitage's back story has contributed to that; but it was the match-winning try in the final of the biggest club tournament in Europe. That's quite a big deal regardless of who scored it.

+1

It was disrespectful, Armitage has as good as apologised too

by GunsGerms Tue 21 May 2013, 11:09 am

I was at the match and saw it happen live and my reaction was to laugh. It was kinda funny at the time. On reflection it was a bit of a dumb thing to do as youre just setting yourself for criticism. It shows a lack of dicipline and paints a target on your face.

I am pretty sure any coach I have ever had would have taken a fairly dim view of that sort of thing.

By contrast I watched Nathan Hines the great taunt and poke at Wilko all game and Wilko didnt react at all. Not once. Takes a massive amount of dicipline not to let Hines get under your skin.

by Guest Tue 21 May 2013, 11:19 am

GunsGerms wrote:
By contrast I watched Nathan Hines the great taunt and poke at Wilko all game and Wilko didnt react at all. Not once. Takes a massive amount of dicipline not to let Hines get under your skin.

Is Nathan Hines the biggest Douche in rugby? Lets have a poll!

by bluestonevedder Tue 21 May 2013, 11:21 am

Delon Armitage is an absolute goon in my opinion. Can't stand the bloke, and love the fact he is no where near the England team. The tags thrown at Ashton would more rightly be aimed at Armitage if you ask me.

by GunsGerms Tue 21 May 2013, 11:22 am

mawhis wrote:Is Nathan Hines the biggest Douche in rugby? Lets have a poll!

No he is class. Id take him on the Lions tour any day of the week.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 21 May 2013, 11:31 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It was disrespectful, Armitage has as good as apologised too

Well it was either that or refuse to apologise.

by bluestonevedder Tue 21 May 2013, 11:33 am

GunsGerms wrote:
mawhis wrote:Is Nathan Hines the biggest Douche in rugby? Lets have a poll!

No he is class. Id take him on the Lions tour any day of the week.

I'd have taken him too. He's continually had stormers since his move to France. Anyone who can hold back 4 players and not get pinged deserves to go on tour!

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue 21 May 2013, 11:34 am

bluestonevedder wrote:Delon Armitage is an absolute goon in my opinion. Can't stand the bloke, and love the fact he is no where near the England team. The tags thrown at Ashton would more rightly be aimed at Armitage if you ask me.

I think Ashton's OK. I would love to see him drop the ball on one of his "splashes" but he seems like a reasonably decent sort of bloke. The other gobshyte however....

by bluestonevedder Tue 21 May 2013, 12:02 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:Delon Armitage is an absolute goon in my opinion. Can't stand the bloke, and love the fact he is no where near the England team. The tags thrown at Ashton would more rightly be aimed at Armitage if you ask me.
I think Ashton's OK. I would love to see him drop the ball on one of his "splashes" but he seems like a reasonably decent sort of bloke. The other gobshyte however....

Yeh, he deserves to drop one to be fair, but god, Delon is far worse. His cheap little shots and gloating drives me nuts. I genuinely believe he is one of the few rugby players who suffers from 'Small man syndrome'.

by Guest Tue 21 May 2013, 12:02 pm

I don't think that Delon's on-field behaviour is any worse that a number of other players, who don't get nearly as much grief.

When Players have been caught eye-gouging, spear tackling and arm-breaking(I'm looking at you Calum Clark), the acts are condemned, but not with the same level of vitriol that seems to be directed at Delon, who has never gone out to seriously hurt someone on the field. In the forwards, some acts of violence are seen as part of the game. Even cricket, the most gentlemanly of sports, sees sledging as a part of the game. The Aussies used to be famous for it.

There's just something about him that rubs rugby fans the wrong way. English rugby culture is quite conservative imho, and people don't like it when something or someone comes along who doesn't conform.

I see Delon as a guy who really enjoys his rugby, is elated when he's winning, and gutted when he's losing, and his behaviour reflects that.I'd rather a player be pi$$sed off after a loss than "Thats £35,000 down the toilet".

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 21 May 2013, 1:09 pm

It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 21 May 2013, 1:37 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

I have neither connection, but, as much as I didn't care for his gesture, the criticism he has received is wildly overdone.

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 1:38 pm

Asbo - who has Toulon connections?

by GunsGerms Tue 21 May 2013, 1:44 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that his defenders seem mainly to have London Irish or Toulon connections - difficulty in seeing the wood for the trees?

I have neither connection, but, as much as I didn't care for his gesture, the criticism he has received is wildly overdone.

It doesnt make me like him any more or less. Im indifferent on this one as I havent seen him do something like this before. However, while I found it funny at the time as a spectator I know that no coach I have ever had would stand for that kinda silly stuff.

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Is Delon Armitage the biggest douche in rugby?