Sergio Garcia makes racist remark when asked about Tiger

by McLaren Wed 22 May 2013, 1:38 am

First topic message reminder :

Can we all now agree the guy is an arse hole?

From the Guardian;

Sergio García's ongoing spat with Tiger Woods took an unwelcome turn night, when the Spaniard made what could be interpreted as a racist remark about his opponent.

The Spaniard was on stage at the European Tour's gala players' awards dinner, where he was questioned by the Golf Channel's Steve Sands. García, who has been embroiled in verbal battles with Woods since the Players Championship at Sawgrass this month, was asked in jest if he would have the American round for dinner one night during the upcoming US Open. "We will have him round every night," García said. "We will serve fried chicken."

The statement was similar to Fuzzy Zoeller's infamous remark towards Woods in 1997. Then, after Woods won his first major, the Masters, which entitled him to choose the champions' dinner menu for the following year, Zoeller said: "You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it? Or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve." Zoeller later apologised and said he had been misconstrued.

García left last night before he could be asked to clarify his remarks, but later issued a statment through the European Tour, saying: "I apologise for any offence that may have been caused by my comment on stage during The European Tour Players' Awards dinner. I answered a question that was clearly made towards me as a joke with a silly remark, but in no way was the comment meant in a racist manner."

Earlier in the day he had earlier been pressed on his relationship – or lack of one – with the world No1 when previewing the PGA Championship. "I mean, you can't like everybody," the Spaniard said. "I think that there's people that you connect with and there's people that you don't. You know, it's pretty much as simple as that. I think that he doesn't need me in his life, I don't need him in mine, and let's move on and keep doing what we're doing."

When asked when this problem first came to light, García replied: "A while back. It's never really been like a true connection like I would have maybe with Luke Donald or Lee Westwood or Adam Scott or some of the other guys that I get along with well."

Paul McGinley, who will lead Europe into the 2014 Ryder Cup, used the Surrey course as the venue to announce he is increasing the captain's wildcard picks from two to three. The leading four players from the European Tour's order of merit and five from the world rankings list will gain automatic entry for the event, to be held at Gleneagles. "I feel like by giving myself an extra pick, it's a little bit of wriggle room," McGinley explained.

"Like it or not, we have to acknowledge the fact that most of the players are now based in America, playing on the PGA Tour. I think in the big scheme of things this is actually going to help the European Tour more because I am going to be watching very closely for those three picks.

"Guys who are not in the top 50 in the world, who show a bit of form on the European Tour, they are going to rank very highly with the possible opportunity of a pick.

"Ideally, I would love to be able to say I want 12 players off the European Order of Merit. But I know that's not practical or realistic and I know I wouldn't have a strong enough team to win the Ryder Cup. At the end of the day, my head will fall; it's on me and it is my decision."

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 10:34 am

MustPuttBetter wrote:I love the people who throw out the 'these stereotypes and racism are terrible, but then he's Spanish and they're all racist aren't they'.

Ironic

Yeah. Beninho, the Racist. Must be true.

by JAS Thu 23 May 2013, 10:35 am

No Digs I disagree entirely. If somebody said to me...so what's on the menu for the Captains Last supper next year...Haggis and deep fried Mars bars?? I wouldn't be in the least bit offended, I'd take it in the spirit it was intended.

The fried chicken link - honestly I had NEVER heard of it before. I know how offended our Irish friends can get about tatties, even though I think it's daft to do so I do understand that there are sensitivities there due to historical events so yes it's probably best not to go stirring the hornets nest on that one.

I think society starts making a whole lot of unneccessary trouble for itself when it starts expanding alleged racial stereotypes to cover things like food dishes, especially dishes that are eaten and enjoyed throughout the social spectrum, again I think this current spat has been blown out of proportion by a sensationalist media trying to fan the flames of a none too friendly rivalry.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 10:42 am

Diggers wrote:...I'm bored rigid with people saying others are getting offended on Tigers behalf, its not the level of offence the remark causes that interests me its the the extent people will go to suggesting that it wasn't even about race in the first place which to me is an utter nonsense.

But Diggers, it might not have been. I have no idea at all what your 'watermelon' reference is about and the only reason I have a clue about stupid fried chicken is because of Zoeller. Thats it. I don't watch a lot of films at all, let alone ones which might reference this sort of sh!t.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 10:43 am

JAS wrote:...I think society starts making a whole lot of unneccessary trouble for itself when it starts expanding alleged racial stereotypes to cover things like food dishes, especially dishes that are eaten and enjoyed throughout the social spectrum, again I think this current spat has been blown out of proportion by a sensationalist media trying to fan the flames of a none too friendly rivalry.

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 10:45 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:...I'm bored rigid with people saying others are getting offended on Tigers behalf, its not the level of offence the remark causes that interests me its the the extent people will go to suggesting that it wasn't even about race in the first place which to me is an utter nonsense.

But Diggers, it might not have been. I have no idea at all what your 'watermelon' reference is about and the only reason I have a clue about stupid fried chicken is because of Zoeller. Thats it. I don't watch a lot of films at all, let alone ones which might reference this sort of sh!t.

Sorry but I don't believe for one second it wasn't about race. I actually think its possible that Garcia said it on the back of Zoeller's comments as a joke, clearly a very poor one. But it was still all about the racial connection.

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 10:47 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
JAS wrote:...I think society starts making a whole lot of unneccessary trouble for itself when it starts expanding alleged racial stereotypes to cover things like food dishes, especially dishes that are eaten and enjoyed throughout the social spectrum, again I think this current spat has been blown out of proportion by a sensationalist media trying to fan the flames of a none too friendly rivalry.

It is not an alleged racial stereotype. Look anywhere on the internet and you will find reference to it all over the place. Is it a stupid racial stereotype, yes.....but it is 100% a racial stereotype and the fact that a few people on here seem unaware of that doesn't make it any less so.

by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 10:51 am

Not every racial comment is racist
There is a difference people

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 11:02 am

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:...I'm bored rigid with people saying others are getting offended on Tigers behalf, its not the level of offence the remark causes that interests me its the the extent people will go to suggesting that it wasn't even about race in the first place which to me is an utter nonsense.

But Diggers, it might not have been. I have no idea at all what your 'watermelon' reference is about and the only reason I have a clue about stupid fried chicken is because of Zoeller. Thats it. I don't watch a lot of films at all, let alone ones which might reference this sort of sh!t.

Sorry but I don't believe for one second it wasn't about race. I actually think its possible that Garcia said it on the back of Zoeller's comments as a joke, clearly a very poor one. But it was still all about the racial connection.

That's entirely your prerogative. I'll give him a bit more latitude as I don't see why it should be assumed that everyone and their dog should know the racial connotations of fried-bloody-chicken or watermelons or anything else of a culinary nature. Incidentally, what is the significance of watermelons? I still don't have a clue...

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 11:08 am

No, but its still a racial comment. Whats wiring with admitting that ? It seems people will go to massive lengths to say that isn't the case.

by SmithersJones Thu 23 May 2013, 11:16 am

What's wrong with fried chicken anyway? How, if it is the case that fried chicken is associated with African Americans (get me, being all PC!), can suggesting that you'd serve it to a man who's half African American be hurtful to him? It's not an insult - I'm sure Sergio eats fried chicken, as do most WASPs, in the US and elsewhere. Is the implication that it's all Tiger ever eats? If so, who's made that implication?

You can't point to Sergio's apology for any sort of indication of intent, other than to take him at face value when he says he didn't mean it as a racial comment. If he'd not apologised, he'd be vilified for not doing so just as he's being vilified now having done so.

by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 11:21 am

Quite the opposite Digs, it seems like people are doing everything they can to create reasons why Garcia must be a racist. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt? Mac certainly is up for quite the opposite for example.

I've never said its not racial. I've said it might not necessarily be if Sergio was unaware of this fried chicken thing as many seem to be.

Racial: of or relating to race or difference in race
Racist: a person with a prejudice belief that one race is superior to others

Even if you accept that the comment was racial, was it an observation made by Sergio based on a belief/observation/jokey thought about Tigers race or was it inferring that Tiger is inferior to him because of his race?

In other words, does Sergio dislike Tiger? Yes. Does Sergio dislike Tiger because he is black? No.

Was the comment racial in nature? Maybe. Was it racist? Of course not

I don't really know what else to say

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 11:24 am

Smithers the insult is meant in the sense that all black people do is lie around all day eating fried chicken, the implication is that they are lazy. That's why it has been used as an insult for literally centuries.
You could of course apply it to lots of people, but historically it has been applied to African Americans. Now if you were to jump in a time machine and go back 200 years or so to when it started and point out the stupidity of it then that would be great. But as that's not possible we are left with it being a well worn. much used racial stereotype used as an insult.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 11:25 am

Diggers wrote:No, but its still a racial comment. Whats wiring with admitting that ? It seems people will go to massive lengths to say that isn't the case.

It's a racial comment because, apparently, many people say it is. I don't disagree with that necessarily but I think it's incredibly stupid to conflate 'stereotype' with 'racist' though and that's what's happening. Most of everything people say about other people, in any sphere, has elements of stereotype - are we all racist on that basis? Ridiculous. Time we moved on from this nonsense I think. SG has apologised (and FWIW, I thought he seemed far more sincere than, say, TW was for his monumental shagging escapades etc) and I can't see anything other than taking it at face value. It's not like he's got form for out and out racist comments is it?

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 11:34 am

Diggers wrote:Smithers the insult is meant in the sense that all black people do is lie around all day eating fried chicken, the implication is that they are lazy. That's why it has been used as an insult for literally centuries.
You could of course apply it to lots of people, but historically it has been applied to African Americans. Now if you were to jump in a time machine and go back 200 years or so to when it started and point out the stupidity of it then that would be great. But as that's not possible we are left with it being a well worn. much used racial stereotype used as an insult.

No, that's not the implication. I thought you'd read the interweb on this? Everything I've now seen talks about poverty, chickens being cheap and historically being eaten by slaves in the US (I'm generalising). So, I assume the connotation goes something like "You're of black Afro-American descent, therefore you must like fried chicken and therefore you're both poor and only worthy of being a slave". That would be insulting - are we saying SG was thinking in that way when he said it? Or could it possibly include the fact that many black Americans actually do like fried chicken (along with many other racial and ethnic groups I have no doubt) in which case all he's doing is stereotyping? I guess he's learnt a couple of lessons from this at least.
Anyway....time to move on.

by JAS Thu 23 May 2013, 11:34 am

Oh for goodness sake... I like fried chicken now and again..does that make me black...or lazy??

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 11:35 am

JAS wrote:Oh for goodness sake... I like fried chicken now and again..does that make me black...or lazy??

Sorry, but I think that's utterly missing the point Jas.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 11:41 am

FWIW, a reasonable article on this sort of thing:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2011/11/obama_fried_chicken_incident_explaining_racist_food_stereotypes.html

by JAS Thu 23 May 2013, 11:42 am

Quite frankly Digs I think it's a point that NEEDS to be missed entirely. There is only a racial connotation to Fried chicken IF people who want there to be one attach one to it. Having now been made aware that some people do, then thats fine, thats their prerogative, I still don't.

by Skydriver Thu 23 May 2013, 11:44 am

Possibly my favourite song from Queen's back catalogue is One Vision. I hope it doesn't get banned for including the incendiary term "fried chicken" in a humourous way.

I had no idea that the term was offensive to be honest (wasn't aware of the Zoeller incident), and it's telling that the newscaster the other day had to explain why it's a potentially racist term in the report.

Peculiar times we live in. Personally, I fail to understand why this episode causes offence, but a term like "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" is dismissed as funny banter. Agree it's way past time to move on anyway.

by JAS Thu 23 May 2013, 11:45 am

If I go down the works canteen today and its Fried chicken on the menu....should I ask if they have any Caucasian alternative??

by mystiroakey Thu 23 May 2013, 11:56 am

Look from my pov.

It was a stereotyping comment on colour not nationality

It isn't a big deal

Sergio isn't a bad lad. It was a spontaneous remark.

Comments like these are in doctored into people.

If they were mates then both parties could banter between each other on these lines without causing each other offence..

Due the nature of the press and the tiger Sergio recent spa this has been blown out of proportion.

Sergio has apologised . And if the comment was about a national steriotype it wouldn't have been a problem.. Like I will invite that yank down and we can share some junk food!!

Whe you touch race the world n his dog wants to get involved

Sergio has stated a steriotype to have a pop at tiger in a very low brow way. He can be a bit simple.. He has got depression. I hope he starts enjoying himself soon.

Stereotyping isn't what I would define as racism. Just stating differences in a derogatory way.. Racism is about pure hate..

by Scrumpy Thu 23 May 2013, 12:03 pm

Who would have thought that a Spaniard would be racist!

To be honest in this case I think people are over reacting, there is nothing wrong with fried chicken, he could have said Thai green curry.

by Davie Thu 23 May 2013, 12:09 pm

Can it really be racist if the perpetrator isn't aware of the racial implications? I think not

I associate fried chicken with the deep south, not with colour. If I were to make a joke about fried chicken to a southerner would I be (unwittingly) racist? No of course not

What a child in the 60s and 70s who lived in areas of the country with very little in the way of ethnic minorities who see a coloured person for the first time and point and say "look mummy there's a little black man!" - are they racist too? Of course not

A comment is only racist if meant with malicious intent - but even if you wish to make the difference between racist and "racial stereotype" then a racial stereotype is only harmful if one is aware of that stereotype

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 12:14 pm

I haven't see Garcia say anywhere that he was making a stereotype about the deep south. Surely if that was the case he would be quick to say it as it would save him a whole lot of bother ?

by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 12:18 pm

In the Players Championship when Tiger pulled that club out and the fans reacted, you can see his gesture over to Sergio as if to say 'hey, he's trying to play'.
When asked about it he made up a whole story about being told he had played already.
Why didn't he just say "i tried to quieten them down as i knew Sergio was playing" as it would have saved him a whole lot of bother?

Sometimes people don't say what seems like the sensible thing to say

by incontinentia Thu 23 May 2013, 12:24 pm

i can't believe so many posters here are so out of touch that they have never heard the fried chicken stereotype! some of them living in the states, it boggles the mind

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 12:26 pm

VictorU3 wrote:Who would have thought that a Spaniard would be racist!

To be honest in this case I think people are over reacting, there is nothing wrong with fried chicken, he could have said Thai green curry.

Ah. Another racist chipping in with a daft knee-jerk comment re. the Spanish. Well done! picard

by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 12:27 pm

Inco i'm sure many people on here know a lot of things you don't and may be surprised that you don't know them too

by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 12:29 pm

I've got to be honest I think pretty much anybody could say anything to Woods and people would come up with some reason for him not to take umbridge about it.
When Stevo said black he was just helping us out with a much needed adjective....there is no racial stereotype used as a slur about blacks and fried chicke...even though 2 seconds on Google will tell anyone that its being used as an insult for generations.
Each to their own.

by Scrumpy Thu 23 May 2013, 12:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
VictorU3 wrote:Who would have thought that a Spaniard would be racist!

To be honest in this case I think people are over reacting, there is nothing wrong with fried chicken, he could have said Thai green curry.

Ah. Another racist chipping in with a daft knee-jerk comment re. the Spanish. Well done!

I take it you've never been to a football match or sporting event in Spain!

How am I racist by the way?

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 12:41 pm

VictorU3 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
VictorU3 wrote:Who would have thought that a Spaniard would be racist!

To be honest in this case I think people are over reacting, there is nothing wrong with fried chicken, he could have said Thai green curry.

Ah. Another racist chipping in with a daft knee-jerk comment re. the Spanish. Well done!

I take it you've never been to a football match or sporting event in Spain!

How am I racist by the way?

How are you racist? Let's see....you accuse SG of being racist based on the fact you know some Spaniards who are. So, in other words, you extrapolate and your comment could be written as "SG is Spanish therefore he's a racist". How's that? I might call that a stereotype but given the nature of this issue and its stupidity, lets call it racist.
Don't get me wrong, I know Spanish football has it's issues re. race and I daresay elements of the non-sporting society does as well.

by Scrumpy Thu 23 May 2013, 12:48 pm

So you over looked the other comment (To be honest in this case I think people are over reacting) to suit your own agenda. Well done Div. Very Happy

by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 12:50 pm

Victor, you can't see the irony in saying that Sergio implying black Americans eat fried chicken is wrong but then the Spanish are racist aren't they??

Some people might call that the comment of a 'spaz', but those people are mainly innocent, saintly, black American golfers sponsored by Nike

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 12:57 pm

VictorU3 wrote:So you over looked the other comment (To be honest in this case I think people are over reacting) to suit your own agenda. Well done Div.

Thanks for the insult; pretty erudite of you I have to say. Who cares about the other comment? These days we all get offended at the slightest don't we? So your first remark was a throwaway comment? A bit like Garcia maybe. I couldn't give a sh!t really - I was just trying to high-light the moronic nature of what's happened and your remark fit the bill nicely.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 May 2013, 1:00 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:Victor, you can't see the irony in saying that Sergio implying black Americans eat fried chicken is wrong but then the Spanish are racist aren't they??

Some people might call that the comment of a 'spaz', but those people are mainly innocent, saintly, black American golfers sponsored by Nike

Interesting that MPB. I've spoken to quite a lot of Americans about their understanding of that word and its derivation. No-one, not one, has a clue. Do I assume they're all insulting the disabled when they use that term or do I think there's some cultural issues here? Could it possibly be that the same may have had a role to play here with Sergio? Surely not...

by Scrumpy Thu 23 May 2013, 1:03 pm

I find people calling Woods a Black American or Black/Thai American racist to be honest, his American end of.

How long before KFC get in on the act and hire Garcia to do an advert?

by Bob_the_Job Thu 23 May 2013, 1:06 pm

Someone is a only a racist if they are proven to have acted in a racist manner (disatvantaged a racial grouping or an individual due to their race), or advocated acting on the basis of race.

Some people here think Sergio's words prove he is, and some think they don't meet the burden of proof. Can we leave it at that? Now, who is up for suing the Women's Institute for being sexist?

by JAS Thu 23 May 2013, 1:31 pm

incontinentia wrote:i can't believe so many posters here are so out of touch that they have never heard the fried chicken stereotype! some of them living in the states, it boggles the mind

Why is it so hard to believe that in an un brainwashed free society Incon that not everyone has a trigger happy Turbocharged sensitivity button that reacts at the most tenuous of links??

by MontysMerkin Thu 23 May 2013, 1:48 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
MustPuttBetter wrote:Victor, you can't see the irony in saying that Sergio implying black Americans eat fried chicken is wrong but then the Spanish are racist aren't they??

Some people might call that the comment of a 'spaz', but those people are mainly innocent, saintly, black American golfers sponsored by Nike
Interesting that MPB. I've spoken to quite a lot of Americans about their understanding of that word and its derivation. No-one, not one, has a clue. Do I assume they're all insulting the disabled when they use that term or do I think there's some cultural issues here? Could it possibly be that the same may have had a role to play here with Sergio? Surely not...

I noticed that Robert Downey Junior syas spaz in the latest iron man film. Nothing about chicken though. Fried or roasted....

by Roller_Coaster Thu 23 May 2013, 1:52 pm

JAS wrote:
incontinentia wrote:i can't believe so many posters here are so out of touch that they have never heard the fried chicken stereotype! some of them living in the states, it boggles the mind

Why is it so hard to believe that in an un brainwashed free society Incon that not everyone has a trigger happy Turbocharged sensitivity button that reacts at the most tenuous of links??

I had a turbo in the 80's* are you saying that we're all over sensitive and shoot people without prejudice**? devil

*I didn't

**I know you're not saying that

by monty junior Thu 23 May 2013, 2:00 pm

Garcia is an absolute tool, why refer to fried chicken in the first place if he had no idea it had racial connotations? Don't buy it for a second, he's lucky he's not in more trouble to be honest.

by MontysMerkin Thu 23 May 2013, 2:16 pm

I must say that if it wasn't supposed to have a 'racial' tone he could have used burgers, ribs or any other delicious foodstuff. I think to be honest it just came out and I think he probably regrets it now (especially with his sponsors 'considering their position')

by incontinentia Thu 23 May 2013, 2:17 pm

i have no idea what you're talking about Jas, my point is that the stereotype is widely covered in film and entertainment, and i find it unbelievable that so many people are unaware of it. have you ever seen 'Me myself and irene'? the racially sensitive dwarf mentioned the fried chicken stereotype. most golf fans should know about from fuzzy's infamous comments.

by Davie Thu 23 May 2013, 2:32 pm

Inco - just get used to the idea that not everyone knows these things.

Even Kwini who has lived over there for > 30 years wasn't aware.

As previously mentioned, I associate it with the South rather than with race, and the Zoeller comment was more focused on his use of collard greens(?) than the fried chicken (to me anyway as I'd never heard of collard greens)

I have lots of American friends. I work with some American. I have holidayed in American many times. Yet I wasn't aware of the racial implications - so there most be plenty of people far more blinkered than I who also don't know

Would your average American (outside of Boston at least) understand the implications of mentioning potatoes to the Irish?

by barragan Thu 23 May 2013, 2:40 pm

I had never heard of the fried chicken stereotype before this incident. I would have just read it as Garcia taking a pop at Woods' lack of culinary imagination and taste as an individual (or as an American at a stretch). Given 'lack of imagination and taste' are both qualities I would suppose upon the victim in question, I personally wouldn't have jumped to this conclusion given my background, though it is easy to see (reading what i've read), how Americans would draw the conclusion they have about Garcia.
Perhaps i have just had too sheltered an upbringing - lucky me.

by mystiroakey Thu 23 May 2013, 2:41 pm

VictorU3 wrote:I find people calling Woods a Black American or Black/Thai American racist to be honest, his American end of.

How long before KFC get in on the act and hire Garcia to do an advert?

That is actually a great idea. a woods v sergio fried chicken ad!

That would take the edge of it. Both can get over it and KFC would make a killing because it would be so high profile/

BTW Victor - its not racist to call him a black american in this thread- we never ever would normally- BUT YOU HAVE TO IN THIS CONTEXT!!

by mystiroakey Thu 23 May 2013, 2:45 pm

"I had never heard of the fried chicken stereotype before this incident."

I am so shocked as to how many didnt know this!

No offence Banban and the others.. Even the Kwini didnt know..

But its something that has been part of a sub american culture for donkies years..

by barragan Thu 23 May 2013, 2:47 pm

That's ok Mysti bud - none taken - there are an outrageous number of things I'm shocked about when it comes to you too Laugh

by mystiroakey Thu 23 May 2013, 2:48 pm

/Yawwwwwn

I am not shocked by you. I am shocked by the amount of people that didnt know the steriotype exsited!

by Davie Thu 23 May 2013, 2:51 pm

I'm shocked that someone so well versed in stereotypes can't even spell it Rolling Eyes

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