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Sergio Garcia makes racist remark when asked about Tiger

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Post by McLaren Wed 22 May 2013, 1:38 am

First topic message reminder :

Can we all now agree the guy is an arse hole?

From the Guardian;

Sergio García's ongoing spat with Tiger Woods took an unwelcome turn night, when the Spaniard made what could be interpreted as a racist remark about his opponent.

The Spaniard was on stage at the European Tour's gala players' awards dinner, where he was questioned by the Golf Channel's Steve Sands. García, who has been embroiled in verbal battles with Woods since the Players Championship at Sawgrass this month, was asked in jest if he would have the American round for dinner one night during the upcoming US Open. "We will have him round every night," García said. "We will serve fried chicken."

The statement was similar to Fuzzy Zoeller's infamous remark towards Woods in 1997. Then, after Woods won his first major, the Masters, which entitled him to choose the champions' dinner menu for the following year, Zoeller said: "You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it? Or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve." Zoeller later apologised and said he had been misconstrued.

García left last night before he could be asked to clarify his remarks, but later issued a statment through the European Tour, saying: "I apologise for any offence that may have been caused by my comment on stage during The European Tour Players' Awards dinner. I answered a question that was clearly made towards me as a joke with a silly remark, but in no way was the comment meant in a racist manner."

Earlier in the day he had earlier been pressed on his relationship – or lack of one – with the world No1 when previewing the PGA Championship. "I mean, you can't like everybody," the Spaniard said. "I think that there's people that you connect with and there's people that you don't. You know, it's pretty much as simple as that. I think that he doesn't need me in his life, I don't need him in mine, and let's move on and keep doing what we're doing."

When asked when this problem first came to light, García replied: "A while back. It's never really been like a true connection like I would have maybe with Luke Donald or Lee Westwood or Adam Scott or some of the other guys that I get along with well."

Paul McGinley, who will lead Europe into the 2014 Ryder Cup, used the Surrey course as the venue to announce he is increasing the captain's wildcard picks from two to three. The leading four players from the European Tour's order of merit and five from the world rankings list will gain automatic entry for the event, to be held at Gleneagles. "I feel like by giving myself an extra pick, it's a little bit of wriggle room," McGinley explained.

"Like it or not, we have to acknowledge the fact that most of the players are now based in America, playing on the PGA Tour. I think in the big scheme of things this is actually going to help the European Tour more because I am going to be watching very closely for those three picks.

"Guys who are not in the top 50 in the world, who show a bit of form on the European Tour, they are going to rank very highly with the possible opportunity of a pick.

"Ideally, I would love to be able to say I want 12 players off the European Order of Merit. But I know that's not practical or realistic and I know I wouldn't have a strong enough team to win the Ryder Cup. At the end of the day, my head will fall; it's on me and it is my decision."
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Post by lorus59 Thu 23 May 2013, 5:19 pm

I think what makes Garcia's comments racist is the fact that Zoeller said it back in 1997. After Zoeller said it, anyone who said it in the future knew it was going to be construed as a racist remark.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 23 May 2013, 5:20 pm

Ta Kwini


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Post by incontinentia Thu 23 May 2013, 5:24 pm

Bubba didn't make a homophobic comment! a pundit criticised a gay athlete using the bible and then Bubba thanked him for sharing his faith. maybe slightly indirectly homophobic but even that would be a stretch
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Post by McLaren Thu 23 May 2013, 5:32 pm

incontinentia wrote:Bubba didn't make a homophobic comment! a pundit criticised a gay athlete using the bible and then Bubba thanked him for sharing his faith. maybe slightly indirectly homophobic but even that would be a stretch

How is supporting homophobia any different from homophobia?

Further, the bible contains homophobic teachings so there no point pretending otherwise.
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Post by incontinentia Thu 23 May 2013, 5:37 pm

my impression was that Bubba was thanking the guy for sharing his faith, regardless of the subject matter
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Post by beninho Thu 23 May 2013, 5:47 pm

Garcia can get away withsaying he was unaware it was a racist comment. it is unlikely he is racist as such a high profile athlete something would have leaked out before. but o'Grady being head of a sporting body should know not to say coloured. he has said Sergio has coloured friends yet everyone is coloured. it's been acceptable for years to say people are black brown etc. what a tool.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 23 May 2013, 5:48 pm

That's akin to someone supporting Sergio and "thanking the guy for sharing" culinary advice . . . . . .

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Post by incontinentia Thu 23 May 2013, 6:42 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:That's akin to someone supporting Sergio and "thanking the guy for sharing" culinary advice . . . . . .
...and that would make the praiser a racist??
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Post by Diggers Thu 23 May 2013, 7:17 pm

Just waiting for Garcia to start whining to the press that his carp round today was Tigers fault.

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Post by Davie Thu 23 May 2013, 8:22 pm

I still can't believe that George O'Grady not only was pulled up for his comment but that he had to apologize for it!

The reaction has been as intense as if he'd used the "N" word. He said "coloured" FFS

The most amazing thing though is that most of the damning has come from inhabitants of the USA which is one of the most institutionalized racist countries in the world.

The world has gone totally mad

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Post by Shotrock Thu 23 May 2013, 8:29 pm

Davie - Did anyone MAKE O'Grady apologize for his remarks?

Nope!

But just how more out of touch can these guys be?


Last edited by Shotrock on Thu 23 May 2013, 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 23 May 2013, 8:30 pm

Davie,
But why didn't O'Grady use some help in crafting an appropriate statement?
It's one thing to say what you mean, but no good whatsoever if it's not going to be perceived that way by its audience. Thought the whole statement was really insipid, talk of Sergio's American friends utterly irrelevant.

Agree with everything else!

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Post by Shotrock Thu 23 May 2013, 8:37 pm

And O'Grady wonders why Finchem is eating his breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Rolling Eyes


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Post by Davie Thu 23 May 2013, 8:41 pm

Shotrock - the court of (misinformed) public opinion made him apologize

Kwini - as I understand it, it was a live interview with Sky Sports, not a carefully prepared (sanitized?) PR statement. I'm sure he took some advice for his apology but not for his impromptu SS interview

And as for considering his audience, I expect he did - his audience is the European viewership - I doubt he worries about the USA any more than Finchem does about Europe

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Post by Shotrock Thu 23 May 2013, 8:45 pm

Davie - The misinformed party here his is O'Grady (quite obviously).


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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 23 May 2013, 8:48 pm

That's because he keeps his meal ticket happy!!

Finchem just let boys be boys; why O'Grady had to say anything, let alone so clearly unscripted, is beyond comprehension.

Davie,
If he's not concerned about "the USA", at least as far as his Tour is concerned, then he should be. But I agree that he probably just thought he was talking to Europe and European sensibilities.


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Post by Shotrock Thu 23 May 2013, 8:54 pm


Wow. Can't believe Euros put such a chucklehead in charge of things. Where's the sensibility at?

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 23 May 2013, 8:59 pm

More than our fair share of knuckleheads over here Shotrock - he didn't start a war for gawd's sake.

Europeans have different terms for these things, as posted earlier, divided by a common language - nothing politically correct about some of the numbnutz comments out of American public figures, golfers included.

O'Grady was stupid as Sergio was. Fortunately, that seems to be acknowledged.

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Post by Henman Bill Thu 23 May 2013, 9:09 pm

If "coloured" is racist then is it racist to call a "white" man white? Is it sexist to call a woman a woman? This is ridiculous!! Where is this going to end?

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Post by Davie Thu 23 May 2013, 9:28 pm

The land that gives us the KKK and redneck mountain men, calling out some little inoffensive European guy for using the word "coloured"

Priceless

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Post by Shotrock Thu 23 May 2013, 9:29 pm

The ignorance of the text is undeniable.

"Colored" has been pejorative term in the states for what ... 25+ years now?

Numbnutz comments out of plenty of Americans AND of course these recent Europeans, Kwin!

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Post by SmithersJones Thu 23 May 2013, 9:38 pm

The worst thing about this entire fiasco is that so many people, given the choice between finding something someone says maliciously racist or innocently ignorant, immediately jump for the former. I find it says more about them than the people they're slating.
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Post by super_realist Thu 23 May 2013, 10:16 pm

Mullet Watson must be pleased abiut the timing of this. His gay slur and previous xenophobic remarks are now ancient history.


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Post by incontinentia Thu 23 May 2013, 10:21 pm

didnt a british soccer pundit also get in trouble for using the term 'coloured'? so its not just an american thing. i have no idea why thats considered offensive, does anybody know?

super- please see argument earlier about Bubba which i won against kwini and mclaren. to say Bubba made a gay slur is ridiculous. sounds like you're getting offended on the gays' behalf!
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Post by beninho Thu 23 May 2013, 10:30 pm

everyone is coloured. to use the term coloured to mean blacks has not been seen as the correct term for years. but it's still used by people that don't know and probably daily mail readers. it's not racist as for as I am aware but it is a stupid thing to say. but rich posh guy involved in golf using incorrect racial term, suppose they would say par for the course.

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Post by beninho Thu 23 May 2013, 10:35 pm

Mr incontinentia the offensive side of the term is that you are using a term to signify a group of individuals. and it's also wrong. as I mentioned we are all coloured. I am, you are and tiger woods is. but if someone says coloured what do you automaticly think? nothing wrong with saying black brown etc

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Post by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 10:43 pm

Calling a 'black' person coloured is offensive because they're not coloured, we all are.

Calling a 'black' person black when, lets be honest, they're not black in colour is okay?

How is 'black' any more correct than 'coloured'?!

This is all a bit ridiculous and stinks of wanting reasons to be offended
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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 23 May 2013, 10:44 pm

Equal opportunity insults for sure, Sr, but Europeans tend not to care too much about what Americans might say.
Whereas Americans look for a mountain that they can build a molehill into if it is thought another nationality has said something not quite right.
There's nothing racist about what either Garcia and O'Grady has said, just stupid and perhaps insensitive.
Doubtless I shall watch tonight's news and hear something insensitive towards Europe.
Who gives a monkey's?
Boot on the other foot? Not so much apparently.


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Post by beninho Thu 23 May 2013, 10:58 pm

if someone of afro/Caribbean decsent is not black skinned and a lot will tend to be he Is likely to be brown skinned. you would say I have black/brown friends. you are therefore explaining who your friends are in a fair honest way. black/brown Americans where called coloured for years. but I thought most people had grown to just say what people are. and not by the colour of skin we have. Vijay Singh is black he is not coloured tiger woods is a brown mixed race person. Sergio Garcia is white European. all are coloured.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Thu 23 May 2013, 11:13 pm

Sorry Beninho but Vijay is quite clearly not black. I've never seen anyone with black skin. He has brown skin.

To call someone black is as factually incorrect as to call them coloured. The difference being someone decided one was offensive and the other wasn't, based on no logic.

In all of my life I've never heard anyone referred to as a brown person
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Post by Shotrock Thu 23 May 2013, 11:19 pm

Kwin - I see mountains out of molehills plenty on this Euro-centric thread! Oy.

Nothing wrong with that, of course - enjoy spirited debate.

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Post by beninho Thu 23 May 2013, 11:26 pm

don't know many Indians or east Asians then? quite happy to state they are brown. say whatever you believe about there being no black people. but ask an afro/carib if he is black or coloured I doubt one would say anything other then black. there are a lot of black people in Africa as well. you lived a sheltered life?

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Post by MustPuttBetter Fri 24 May 2013, 12:20 am

I know plenty of people from other cultures thanks Beninho. I've never seen a black coloured person. Furnish me with a picture of such a person if you wouldn't mind. I'm keen to learn from your clearly vast knowledge
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Post by MustPuttBetter Fri 24 May 2013, 12:32 am

Anyone else here think that Vijay's skin is de facto black in colour?
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Post by GPB Fri 24 May 2013, 2:24 am

beninho wrote:if someone of afro/Caribbean decsent is not black skinned and a lot will tend to be he Is likely to be brown skinned. you would say I have black/brown friends. you are therefore explaining who your friends are in a fair honest way. black/brown Americans where called coloured for years. but I thought most people had grown to just say what people are. and not by the colour of skin we have. Vijay Singh is black he is not coloured tiger woods is a brown mixed race person. Sergio Garcia is white European. all are coloured.

I refer to all my friends, no matter what race they are, as "friends".

Nothing More, Nothing less. No adjective necessary.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Fri 24 May 2013, 5:26 am

GPB, no one said it was necessary. That doesn't mean it is something to be avoided however. I see you have no problem referring to 'Asian golfers' or 'Korean golfers'. Are they not just other ways of describing a person.

Do you find mentioning the colour of your friends skin offensive to you? I'd think its something to be proud of. Odd
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Post by McLaren Fri 24 May 2013, 5:44 am

You would have to be a moron to think describing someone as coloured was acceptable.

Like the fried chicken remark you need to ignore the literal meaning and consider the wider meaning of the word. In this case its use as a demeaning remark.

Paul Kearns, the deputy chief executive of Show Racism the Red Card, said:

Black people prefer to be referred to as black, because historically the term coloured has carried particularly negative connotations. It is certainly something we would like to see disappear – it is old fashioned and lazy, but more importantly it has an offensive undertone.

"I do think that anyone using that term these days does so probably through ignorance or lack of education rather than through malice. But we would actively discourage people from using the word coloured when they mean black.
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Post by super_realist Fri 24 May 2013, 6:51 am

incontinentia wrote:my impression was that Bubba was thanking the guy for sharing his faith, regardless of the subject matter

Why would anyone thank anyone for that? Watson was clearly endorsing a statement.

Watson is far far worse than anything garcia or grady has said. Im not getting offended on other people's behalf I just think hes an idiot with a tiny brain and no education.

The worst, most offensive thing I can think of is the pervasion of religion in America and the degree to which it permeates society there. Far more damaging than a few misplaced words from garcia.

Mac, people like stan collymore actually find the term black as offensive because he is mixed race. Hes as much white as he is black in his eyes. Obama is mixed race, Woods is mixed race. Black is not a catch all term which everyone is comfortable with.


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Post by mystiroakey Fri 24 May 2013, 7:10 am

Your right Sr it can be impossible in an individual situation

Mixed race can also be seen negatively. Even though it is the most PC term out there and seen in a much better light than Half caste!!

But I have even witnessed people taking offence at it!!



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Post by mystiroakey Fri 24 May 2013, 7:29 am

I have a feeling that O'Grady said coloured because in his mind he quickly assumed black isn't the right word and then used coloured!

Incorrect assessment off course but zero malice. I am not inclined to believe the same about Serge. But then at the same time I look at O'Grady as a dinosaur and Sergio as someone who just made a mistake(but still made a racial slur!)

Someone on this thread has also said that using the term black American is offensive . Even though it is the best (and probably only)term to use in regards to this situation.


My main concern with O'Grady is his need to use the 'His mates are black(coloured)" line in the first place. Arggg that in itself is his main lack of ignorance!!



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Post by super_realist Fri 24 May 2013, 7:34 am

Sad that there is still a label required. Obviously it is rubbish to claim that you dont see someones race when you meet them. Its effectively written all over their face, but its a shame we need to describe someone as a black/ asian/native american golfer.
Seems like rather a tabloid hangover.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 24 May 2013, 9:00 am

McLaren wrote:You would have to be a moron to think describing someone as coloured was acceptable.

Like the fried chicken remark you need to ignore the literal meaning and consider the wider meaning of the word. In this case its use as a demeaning remark.

Paul Kearns, the deputy chief executive of Show Racism the Red Card, said:

Black people prefer to be referred to as black, because historically the term coloured has carried particularly negative connotations. It is certainly something we would like to see disappear – it is old fashioned and lazy, but more importantly it has an offensive undertone.

"I do think that anyone using that term these days does so probably through ignorance or lack of education rather than through malice. But we would actively discourage people from using the word coloured when they mean black.
Thanks for the 'education' Mac but if you think people have time to spend on the absurd minutiae of race relations - think again. Thanks for the insult as well btw.
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Post by Davie Fri 24 May 2013, 9:10 am

Yeah nice one Mac. I happen to think it's acceptable so I guess that makes me a moron too

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Post by Roller_Coaster Fri 24 May 2013, 9:40 am

From my understanding "coloured" is deemed to be offensive as that was the term generally used in public signage by "whites" to discriminate against non-"whites". For example "No Coloureds" signs in buildings/on buses/toilets etc. South Africa and America the prime examples.

As the "whites" were in power/control they chose that phrase and so it was a natural kick back against that phrase which was representing the oppression suffered.

That's just what I was told when I was pulled up for using "coloured" (in an attempt to be PC incidentally) in South Africa. It makes sense to me as a rationale.

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Post by ScottieD18 Fri 24 May 2013, 9:47 am

I understood "coloured" became an unacceptable word because it was the main word used in the US when there was institutional racism.

Blacks were disadvantages for generations from the slave trade until very recent history. Because of this terrible past we have to keep reminding ourselves where the line is and we all have a duty to police each other. But, if the line is crossed by mistake then there needs to be tolerance.

Debating the merits of skin colours as per recent contributions is missing the point. There is acceptable and non acceptable language and we all need to learn to use the acceptable language.

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Post by super_realist Fri 24 May 2013, 9:58 am

I think its sad and rather pathetic when people get offended by something which may have an historical reference but which bears no reference to them or the current day.
Sadly by heritage i am Scottish. Cant do anything about it, but I dont go faking offence when someone brings up highland clearances.

Mac is without a doubt over-reacting to an hysterical degree and I would confidently wager that any non white person would agree that he is looking for something that isnt really there or intended.
He is almost telling them what people should find offensive. Surely that is worse than anything.

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Post by beninho Fri 24 May 2013, 9:59 am

two great posts to explain the reasons why it's not a generally accepted term for nine whites to be called coloured. though I do think there was a stage when people tried to use the term to be more pc. though I am nit surprised white middle class people still believe it can be acceptable. but isn't that the reason golf has the reputation of a white middle class casually racist sport in England and anerica anyway. this week hasn't done much to dispel the myth.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 24 May 2013, 9:59 am

Your right scottie . It's about what these groups want really. It's not about logic is about parrot learning.

I referred to a transgender months ago to a tranny. I didn't realise it would cause offence . But it did. And know I won't use that term..

We are all ignorant to certain things. Point is once you are wise to it. Then just don't say it anymore

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Post by MustPuttBetter Fri 24 May 2013, 10:03 am

I think you're missing the point Scottie.
The point of my raising skin colour was precisely to make the point that they are simply acceptable and non acceptable terms, nothing more or less. Both coloured and black are incorrect but one is acceptable because it was decided it was so

The fact that someone should be labelled a racist because they used 'coloured' when they thought it was 'correct' is ridiculous
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Post by beninho Fri 24 May 2013, 10:15 am

I am assuming Mr McLaren is a white British male and therefore has no reason to be offended personally. but is trying to explain why people may be offended. especially in the face of people seeing no reason for anyone to be offended.

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