BATH RUGBY - 2013/14

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New Thread for the new season - https://www.606v2.com/t54781-bath-rugby-pre-season-2014-15

Henson showed some nice touches but looked off the pace to me,he played no part in any of the preseason games so I guess that's not surprising. Very pleased for Webber and Wilson, both looked good against their England rivals I thought.

All in all, 2 wins from 2, with plenty still to work on and Louw, Bendy, Agulla, Guinazu, fearns and the other Argie whoa name I can never spell still to come back. Not a bad place to be in.

Happy days, I'm so pleased we have a strong pack again, there really is no substitute for a big powerful pack.

I'm also liking the new scrum laws.

First time since Chilcott and Dawe

maestegmafia wrote:First time since Chilcott and Dawe

Did anyone else think that Chilts moonlighted in Bond movies when not holding up the front row?
 
1. Hair job

 
2. Odd job

Ha ha ha...!

A win for Bath in the United league last night against Quins who are normally very strong in that league, very pleasing to see us developing a strong all round squad.

Also, anyone see the money back from Sarries if Henson scores? I sort of hope they give him a kick in front of the posts so they have to pay out!

Bathman_in_London wrote:A win for Bath  in the United league last night against Quins who are normally very strong in that league, very pleasing to see us developing a strong all round squad.

Also, anyone see the money back from Sarries if Henson scores? I sort of hope they give him a kick in front of the posts so they have to pay out!

I couldn't wish for more so kind of his former club to so easily make him popular with his new one. Unfortunately the technicality is that you have to have a Bath City Postcode, we are too far away though Bath is my nearest big club.

Imagine if he gets a kick in front of the posts and misses.......

beshocked wrote:Imagine if he gets a kick in front of the posts and misses.......

He doesn't often miss pressure kicks mate remember Cardiff 2005...? And that was no where near an easy kick.

Although I really like the brash, almost arrogant marketing of Saracens, you really have to wonder why they bring this challenge with a player who is a very good goal kicker, drop goal kicker and has scored some prolific tries in his career...

I remember Cardiff 2005, that was the last time he did something of note. Been dining out on that ever since.

They've brought it in because he won't kick for goal or score a try and might not even start. Also, even if a miracle happens, it won't cost them much money, far less than the exposure they've got from this PR stunt. Say what you want about Sarries, but they've got a very savvy marketing team and fair play to them, bringing Prem Rugby to the news and giving more exposure is good news for the club, the league and the sport.

Bathite wrote:I remember Cardiff 2005, that was the last time he did something of note. Been dining out on that ever since.

Thats a bit harsh mate, he has looked bloody good in the last two Bath games, considering he has had a hampered pre season due to injury. He also played very well when Wales won the rest of their games in 2005, and their GS in 2008.

Sarries Marketing is being savvy, but this could bit them in the backside quite easily. Shame they don't have the balls to do it when they play to a 70,000 crowd at Twickenham...!

maestegmafia if Henson doesn't start then it makes things more interesting. Henson is not the player he was in 2005.

Bathite fair enough you're entitled to your opinion

from experience I wouldn't say they are that savvy a marketing team. There's as many misses as hits. It's just they throw so many ideas out there that some will work. It has it's pros and cons

I wouldn't say there is an overall brand strategy - the scatter gun approach is used. Plus the merchandise needs work.

Don't fall into the trap of playing Henson if he's not performing.

To be fair I don't think he played that bad against Leicester, I bet loads of players wouldn't have passed as early as he did to Banners to score in the corner, if he had delayed the pass or ran with it then we wouldn't have scored.

He has a long way to go to get back to where he was, but imo it's been a good start for Henson at Bath.

Scrumpy wrote:To be fair I don't think he played that bad against Leicester, I bet loads of players wouldn't have passed as early as he did to Banners to score in the corner, if he had delayed the pass or ran with it then we wouldn't have scored.

He has a long way to go to get back to where he was, but imo it's been a good start for Henson at Bath.

you are not the only one, most of the press concluded the same.

maestegmafia wrote:

Bathite wrote:I remember Cardiff 2005, that was the last time he did something of note. Been dining out on that ever since.

Thats a bit harsh mate, he has looked bloody good in the last two Bath games, considering he has had a hampered pre season due to injury. He also played very well when Wales won the rest of their games in 2005, and their GS in 2008.

Sarries Marketing is being savvy, but this could bit them in the backside quite easily. Shame they don't have the balls to do it when they play to a 70,000 crowd at Twickenham...!

Not sure what games you watched, but he's been average at very best against Falcons and Tigers.

It won't bit them in the backside, because their return on interest based on the free advertising and the fact they used Henson, a name known to loads of non rugby followers due to his TV escapades, they've opened up potential new customers as well. They might make a very small loss on 1000 or so tickets, so, what's that £50k in the grand scheme of things.

beshocked wrote:maestegmafia if Henson doesn't start then it makes things more interesting. Henson is not the player he was in 2005.

Bathite fair enough you're entitled to your opinion

from experience I wouldn't say they are that savvy a marketing team. There's as many misses as hits. It's just they throw so many ideas out there that some will work. It has it's pros and cons

I wouldn't say there is an overall brand strategy - the scatter gun approach is used. Plus the merchandise needs work.

Don't fall into the trap of playing Henson if he's not performing.

I work in Marketing - I think it is savvy because they are trying new stuff to get new fans, a bit of innovation is always welcome

Not sure who "most of the press" are, but here's the review from the Bath ERE forum and most people have agreed with it.

"Henson. Errors but glimpses of quality 6 "

Bathite wrote:

beshocked wrote:maestegmafia if Henson doesn't start then it makes things more interesting. Henson is not the player he was in 2005.

Bathite fair enough you're entitled to your opinion

from experience I wouldn't say they are that savvy a marketing team. There's as many misses as hits. It's just they throw so many ideas out there that some will work. It has it's pros and cons

I wouldn't say there is an overall brand strategy - the scatter gun approach is used. Plus the merchandise needs work.

Don't fall into the trap of playing Henson if he's not performing.

I work in Marketing - I think it is savvy because they are trying new stuff to get new fans, a bit of innovation is always welcome

I agree this current idea is savvy. I am talking about the Saracens marketing team as a whole not being savvy. I am looking at the bigger picture. A proper marketing and brand strategy is different to a PR gimmick. I feel like there is no coherent direction they are going in.

It's just a bunch of random unconnected ideas thrown around.

When it talk about hit and miss - miss are things like fat lady stunt, botched up match in Biarritz. Hit - match in Belgium for example. Not everything works but they do try new things.

Who doesn't work in marketing? 

Bathite don't be too hard on Henson, in the 2011 world cup warm up V England at the MS he looked good before he got injured.

He is one of a few Welsh player who I would class as genuine world class or had the potential to be world class, fair enough he may have missed that boat to truly live up to the hype, and he needs to get his head right but there is no denying it he is talented, rusty, but very talented.

Scrumpy wrote:Bathite don't be too hard on Henson, in the 2011 world cup warm up V England at the MS he looked good before he got injured.

He is one of a few Welsh player who I would class as genuine world class or had the potential to be world class, fair enough he may have missed that boat to truly live up to the hype, and he needs to get his head right but there is no denying it he is talented, rusty, but very talented.

Since signing for Bath I think Mr Fearns might have knocked some sense in to him...! If so, then Bath have a great player for the next few years, with so much time away from the game it has often been commented that Henson could play long in to his thirties.

I think it may have sunk in that this is his last chance to be a serious rugby player, Maybe the Fearns punch did knock some sense into him, it's the only language some people understand and if it works then thats great.

Watched George Ford at the game yesterday and have to admit that my initial reservations on his age, size and kicking from the tee have been unfounded.

The lads awareness of space and his timing looked impressive against a LI side that were combative throughout. Geraghty is the forgotten FH of English rugby and he still looks class.

Suspect Heathcote will leave at the end of the season which will be disappointing and should never have changed his national allegiance, although that will give him an opoortunity, probably at Edinburgh.

Recwatcher wrote:Watched George Ford at the game yesterday and have to admit that my initial reservations on his age, size and kicking from the tee have been unfounded.

The lads awareness of space and his timing looked impressive against a LI side that were combative throughout. Geraghty is the forgotten FH of English rugby and he still looks class.

Suspect Heathcote will leave at the end of the season which will be disappointing and should never have changed his national allegiance, although that will give him an opoortunity, probably at Edinburgh.

Recwatcher - you don't perhaps think it was far sighted of Heathcote to change national allegiances? It was always likely he would not be regarded as the incumbent 10 at Bath this season and not to play regularly will hurt anyone's chances of international game time.
 
It's not that Heathcote wouldn't have wanted to play for England (he's said so in interviews) but I think it's undeniable when you look at who's ahead of him for each nation that he is more likely to have a longer international career playing for Scotland. Farrell is still very young and much in favour, Flood isn't that old either and is Mr Dependable, Burns has already been capped, conventional wisdom has Ford down as very much the prodigy. How many caps could Heathcote honestly expect to get given this generation of competition?
 
I thought about this again recently when two of Glasgow's quality imports, Josh Strauss and Sean Maitland gave an interview where each said that they would not have wanted an international 'career' comprising 1 or 2 caps only for the Boks or All Blacks respectively whereas they could better test themselves regularly at international level with Scotland.

GC, I understand why he did it, just dont think he should. Nothing against up north, my wife is from Edinburgh and occasionally show up to games.

Heathcote could be a fantastic FH but wont stick around now as he has another option. Most english clubs now have english flyhalves, Exeter being an exception and would have been good to keep him in the southwest if not Bath.

Recwatcher wrote:GC, I understand why he did it, just dont think he should. Nothing against up north, my wife is from Edinburgh and occasionally show up to games.

Heathcote could be a fantastic FH but wont stick around now as he has another option. Most english clubs now have english flyhalves, Exeter being an exception and would have been good to keep him in the southwest if not Bath.

Totally true RW, but most countries are having problems finding an outlet for their young talent. It's rare that kids like Rhys Patchell and Paddy Jackson are the usual incumbent in the 10 shirt for one of the UK/Ire professional franchises.
 
Munster is struggling to give decent gametime to its own young prodigy JJ Hanrahan. Leinster is alternating 'Sexton Mk II', Ian Madigan with the Kiwi, Jimmy Gopperth. Glasgow is in a position where it cannot give game time to its current Scottish internationals, Jackson and Weir and also give a decent shift to one of Scotland's two most exciting young 10s, Finn Russell. Scotland's other future 10, Tommy Allan is thankfully getting some game time for Perpignan.

All I'm saying is that I think Heathcote would be underselling himself in playing second fiddle for long. He's good enough to build a team around in his own right and I wouldn't blame him if he left.

Glad to hear Ford is impressing as I was told for most of the summer he wouldn't walk in and take the 10 shirt. If was Bruce Craig I'd be giving him a long contract as he will be quality for years to come.

Heathcote was poor vs Sarries and did nothing to play himself into contention. I think It's fairly inevitable he will leave at the end of the season which is a shame.

LI had a gigantic lad at 7 who was looking to get to Ford at every opportunity but Mercer or Houston were constantly on Ford's shoulder to ensure he wasn't battered and Stringer protected him a couple of times by not giving the hospital pass too.

If Ford keeps up this standard he will be in reckoning for higher honours sooner rather than later.

Anyone know how bad the injuries to Day, Attwood and Watson were ?? at second row we will have garvey and hooper which is no mean paring but starting to look light otherwise for bench cover ! I guess one of Skuse, Ovens and the samoan lad will cover 6 until Fearns and louw returns....so many back row players !!

Day left the ground in an ankle boot and Attwood popped a rib apparently. Not sure about Watson.
I would guess that all 3 will play no part in the Sale game, so I guess academy boy Spencer will come into the second row with Hooper? Garvey will have to stay at 6 with Ovens, Sisi and Fearns all injured.

Sam, I will admit I didn't think Ford would come in and take the shirt in the manner he has done. Heathcote got injured in pre-season and frankly hasn't had a look in since. I would imagine during the Amlin games he will get a run of matches. Its a shame as Heathcote is a confidence player it seems, it took him almost a whole season to get over being thrust into a full international after only a couple of A games back from injury. Sadly I think he will be tempted north of the border, which will be a real shame to lose a local academy lad, but now he has made that international call it would be hard to blame him.

Sam, you know what, I didn't think he'd start so well either. He got his chance in the first game, where they could have gone for him or Heathcote and he's taken it brilliantly and is really blossoming. I never doubted that he could be our #1 ten, I just didn't think he'd do it so easily! Heathcote got a bit shafted being given his opportunity at Sarries away with a second team out, but still, Ford has been great.

Bathite wrote:Sam, you know what, I didn't think he'd start so well either. He got his chance in the first game, where they could have gone for him or Heathcote and he's taken it brilliantly and is really blossoming. I never doubted that he could be our #1 ten, I just didn't think he'd do it so easily! Heathcote got a bit shafted being given his opportunity at Sarries away with a second team out, but still, Ford has been great.

Perhaps it was a machiavellian scheme by Mike Ford to make sure his son stayed first choice fly half at Bath? 

Mike Ford's mindset:

Send Heathcote as the sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered by Sarries with a weakened pack.

Start George Ford at 10 vs LI at home to help enhance his reputation at Bath.

Job done. 

Your vocabulary is really coming on, well done beshocked

Bathite wrote:Your vocabulary is really coming on, well done beshocked

Bathite what's the point of that inane comment?

I thought that it was virtuoso

The problem with heathcote is that he's a bath academy graduate, we hate bringing through academy guys, if you want to play for bath first team go to Leicester or London Irish academy. Mercer will be phased out when louw and fearns are fit and will expect to see skuse and ovens leave, as should woodburn. For all sir ians faults he certainly started to bring on the youngs uns for the first time in a decade. But we are winning now so no complaints but our success depends on buying in talent all the time, not growing it.

Sadly you are right Chris, we do have a real problem bringing players through. Mercer is getting game time now but (deservedly) is second choice to Louw. I hope Spencer plays on Friday at lock.
Ovens keeps getting injured at the wrong time, but even so I am personally very frustrated wit his lack of game time, he has always looked good to me, indeed less of a penalty liabilty than Mercer has been at times. I fear that much like Scaysbrook, he will leave and become a key member of another teams backrow.

I do hope for the sake of the player's own confidence that Heathcote is given a chance with Bath's *actual* first choice pack giving him some protection, rather than (as been pointed out above) the U18 Girls Second XV which he was subjected to against Sarries.

Bath Rugby team to face Sale Sharks

15. Ollie Devoto
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Kyle Eastmond
11. Tom Biggs
10. George Ford
9. Peter Stringer
1. Paul James
2. Ross Batty
3. David Wilson
4. Stuart Hooper ( c )
5. Will Spencer
6. Matt Garvey
7. Guy Mercer
8. Leroy Houston

Replacements

16. Tom Dunn
17. Anthony Perenise
18. Kane Palma-Newport
19. Carl Fearns
20. Alafoti Fa'osiliva
21. Martin Roberts
22. Ben Williams
23. Gavin Henson

Thats the strongest team that could be put on considering injuries etc. Looking forward to seeing Spencer in action, this might be his first premiership start? 6 academy graduates in the squad which is good to see, seeing as that has been a bit of an achilles heel in recent times.

Its going to be tough to get a result, but if the pack gets parity, I think thats a pretty decent set of backs, a lot of attacking flair on display.

I just hope we don't take our foot off the gas this week.

Good to see Fearns and Williams back in contention.

That Sale back row is much underated and suspect Fearns will come on sooner rather than later with Garvey slotting into the second row and the half back confrontation should be interesting too.

JSD on BT hasn't had a good word to say about Bath yet, bit of a wet blanket too.

Seems bath still can't win away from home then, and squad depth is looking a little less impressive now, if we cant beat sale then top 4 is looking unlikely, well played sale, sounds Like Steve blacks work has been paying off with cips, I hope he keeps this form up. Looking forward to Webber, Attwood, day, louw, agulla, abendanon, banahan, Watson returning and fearns getting match fit, and will interesting to see how the argie front row players fit in, they could be real gems over the six nations period.

I wouldn't worry too much. Every team has wobbles along the way. Similar things happened last season with Wasps shocking Sarries and Exeter man shaming Quins at The Stoop.

It's how you bounce back that'll count, luckily you've got the Amlin next up so you'll probably get to annihilate some little Spanish team or something.

How was Ford in a hostile away game on the back foot?

Ford didn't create alot from ball in hand even when we had the lions share of possession and his multiple missed kicks basically lost us the game. Cipriani on the other hand was creative with ball in hand, made two immense try saving tackles and kicked 14 points. Luckily Sale brought george fords brother joe on in the dying minutes and he also missed a penalty that would have done bath out of a losing bonus point !

So despite being out-muscled in Sale, at the end of the 1st period of the league, Bath find themselves sitting nicely in 4th spot. We certainly haven't set the world on fire, but 3 wins and 2 BPs from 5 games is a pretty decent return I think and with the Argies, Louw and Bendy to all reappear over the next few weeks, hopefully we should be stronger over the winter.

Ford had his first wobble against Sale, it will be interesting to see how he comes back from it. We may find that Heathcote gets a bit of a run in the Amlin, I hope he gets into a bit of form so we can have some real competition at 10.

It's the manner in how we lost that bugs me, the forwards didn't look interested in the 1st half, fair enough that happens sometimes especially when the opposition are more up for it but you would expect them to show more in the 2nd half, they didn't and that’s what bugs me, at the end of the day this was Sale not Leicester or Sarries (no offence sale fans)
 
IMO we have lost momentum since our coaches decided to rest players for the Sarries game, I accept Bath will lose games and the league is a marathon not a sprint but when you start well you have to keep that momentum going and players need to know that the shirt is theirs if they keep performing well.

I don't like players rotating just for the sake of it.

To me it looked like Bath were badly missing Louw in the backrow. Yes I admit again I was wrong - he's very good.

I thought Fearns made a difference when he came on too but by then it seemed too late.

Bath have been unfortunate with injuries. Devoto in my opinion is not a good full back. The backline lacked sparkle - Watson and Banahan would have added a lot in my opinion. Rokodiguini seemed to be the only back capable of causing problems. I like him a lot.

Bath have a lot of players to come back - you shouldn't be too disheartened.

I think Sale away will be a tough test for most sides in the AP.

Rokodiguini always looks dangerous when I've seen him play, great player.

Deveto looked out of his depth and I'm not sure if the JJ/Eastmond partnership is all that its cracked up to be but thats still early days and is a work in progress.

Hate to say it but if Henson was playing I think we would have won as Fords radar was off all night.

beshocked wrote:To me it looked like Bath were badly missing Louw in the backrow. Yes I admit again I was wrong - he's very good.

I thought Fearns made a difference when he came on too but by then it seemed too late.

Bath have been unfortunate with injuries. Devoto in my opinion is not a good full back. The backline lacked sparkle - Watson and Banahan would have added a lot in my opinion. Rokodiguini seemed to be the only back capable of causing problems. I like him a lot.

Bath have a lot of players to come back - you shouldn't be too disheartened.

I think Sale away will be a tough test for most sides in the AP.

We've both admitted we've been wrong! Well done both of us! Ha.

I disagree on Fearns though, I was hoping he'd make a big impact and use his power to smash the rucks clear, but I was a bit disappointed that he didn't. Mercer was actually playing really well at the time as well.

Devoto was more than solid at FB, but not a great attacking option, he's realistically our 3rd choice FB, Bendy and Watson will be fine normally, but I agree with you, he's not going to really worry the defence on the counter. He's a 10/12 that covers 15, no more.

We didn't play well, we lost the breakdown, which meant even though we had enough time in their 22 to win it, we didn't convert. Even when we did win the penalties, sadly, Ford missed them. We played badly, but with some injuries, we still had enough kicks to win the game, which wouldn't have been fair on Sale, but still a good enough effort, as you say.

Backline was a bit dry, but Sale did defend very well and also slowed the ball brilliantly at the breakdown, allowing them to blitz the 13 channel very effectively.