Mercedes to be investigated

First topic message reminder :

Yet another storm is set to rage after Red Bull and Ferrari are complaing that Mecedes did a test on 2014 tyres with a 2013 car, instead of a 2011 car as did Ferrari after the Bahrain race.

1000 miles tested to see if the new tyres are safe, but some are saying that they are the tyres to be used in Canada, not sure if this is true, but Mercedes could be in for a nasty penalty or fine or disqualification from future races.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22676348

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22672228

Interesting thread here, lots of different thoughts, but no facts have come from Pirelli yet. I'm hoping that they are the ones who didn't or had to inform the FIA about the testing and not Mercedes, or they could be in for a whole heap of trouble.

Whether Merc are guilty or not (id like to think they're not as otherwise it would suggest their brains were out to lunch when that decision was made to go on the test). As above, its not their job to invite others and from what i hear the FIA said teams can do tests if asked to do so and if everyone is asked.

I find it laughable that RBR are kicking off over this, given such things like the handle that allowed their cars ride height to be changed.

Anyway i digress a little...

Agree CM.

Seems Pirelli are the main culprits, for either not following previously agreed protocols for tyre testing, or for not confirming with the FIA what they needed to do, in order for it to be completely above board.

As for Red Bull, the words "pot" and "kettle" spring to mind.

If the Canadian GP was anything to go by Mercedes evidently didn't learn anything that gave them any kind of advantage.

dyrewolfe wrote:

If the Canadian GP was anything to go by Mercedes evidently didn't learn anything that gave them any kind of advantage.

So where did they learn to swap the rear tyres over to make them last longer then DW

Fernando wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

If the Canadian GP was anything to go by Mercedes evidently didn't learn anything that gave them any kind of advantage.

So where did they learn to swap the rear tyres over to make them last longer then DW

Eh? How do you do that (surely you can only put them on 1 way) and how does that make them last longer? I thought the tyres were all the same?

And like I said, their performance at the weekend didn't seem any better or worse than in recent races, so whatever they did learn obviously hasn't given them some magical improvement in performance.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Fernando wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

If the Canadian GP was anything to go by Mercedes evidently didn't learn anything that gave them any kind of advantage.

So where did they learn to swap the rear tyres over to make them last longer then DW

Eh? How do you do that (surely you can only put them on 1 way) and how does that make them last longer? I thought the tyres were all the same?

And like I said, their performance at the weekend didn't seem any better or worse than in recent races, so whatever they did learn obviously hasn't given them some magical improvement in performance.

You'd think that wouldn't you but i was just going by what Gary Anderson during qualifying

Yeah, Horner said the same.

Its funny how everything that Mercedes does now is under a microscope, but no-one is suggesting how Vettel got 20secs ahead of everyone, when he's been so slow in the last 3 races. What did they magically change and where did they get it from, spying on Mercedes in Madrid ?

The Mercs have been getting better slowly as they progress through their new components and telemetry data from each race. One step forward, two steps back sometimes, but its a general progress upwards that suggests to me that they are more than likely heading for the championship in 2014, with the new engine rules and styling changes that will have to be made at the end of the season.

For the FIA to say...."The International Automobile Federation (FIA) said it "may constitute a breach" of rules forbidding mid-season testing" in preparation for the tribunal, they are practically denying any involvement in the contractual process of Pirelli asking for the rules to be bent and in doing so laying all blame for the testing outside of their jurisdiction.

Whatever RB, Helmut Marko and the FIA do, to try and influence this tribunal with outrageous statements of penalties, fines or disqualifications, one hopes that the FIA will somehow recognise their involvement in all this, as knowledge of a crime is as good as abetting the crime.

Will Mercedes get a fair trial in what is already very muddy waters ?

Reason Vettel got away is because

- pole
- clean air
- new tyres
-struggling on rear tyres/high fuel load of both mercedes
-kimi/alonso struggling through field

Vettel dominates when that happens. It was the same in 2011 and the same here. Red bull's downforce, smooth track, low degradation means Vettel could unleash the full capability of the car. No one had an answer and no one will have an answer, only pirelli's less durable tyres and a non-pole for vettel stop a domination.

As for Mercedes, they will probably accept anything apart from the expulsion from the Constructors Championship and the financial implication of losing a hefty sum of money for next year. Anything else is rather pointless, taking away points from drivers or a big fine are not major punishments, seeing as the drivers aren't really in a position to fight for a WDC.

Fair point John, it was a dominant drive, the difference in speed was nearly half a sec a lap. Why Lotus has fallen back so much in Canada is strange, given their speed in recent races, apart from Malaysia and Monaco they had podium finishes at least.

Mercedes problems seem to be confounded by their add-ons and an inability to stop the wear. Not sure they can do anything this year, McClaren having even worse problems, but Ferrari are blippy, good one week, bad the next.

Its only Red bull that seem to have any reliability in both tyres and car. I can't see anything but Red Bull and Vettel titleists.

Whatever then outcome of the Tribunal, it aint going to impair Mercedes chances of winning it this year LOL

GSC wrote:Yeah, Horner said the same.

I'm confused though, as regardless of whether you swap around the front and rear tyres or left and right, you're still going to end up inflicting the same amount of wear in the same areas of the tyre...so I fail to see how swapping them around would make any difference.

Still, if Gary Anderson and Christina Horner say so, I'll bow to their superior knowledge.


Regarding Vettel's dominance in Canada, I think it was a combination of Vettel being on pole (he excels at making quick getaways when he doesn't have anyone in front of him) and the more durable tyre, allowing him to use more of the car's inherent speed.

I agree it doesn't bode well for the rest of the season...unless Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes etc. can find dramatic improvements and soon, but something needed to be done about the ridiculously high wear rates some teams were experiencing and the unusually high number of delaminations.

I don't think its that bad a thing to put the onus back on the teams to try and catch Red Bull, rather than relying on naff tyres to slow them down. If it does result in Vettel strolling to the title, it just means they haven't done a good enough job over the season.

I think you'll see teams look to prepare for next year earlier than usual tbh. Especially if Vettels off into the distance midseason

JubbaIsle wrote:Its funny how everything that Mercedes does now is under a microscope, but no-one is suggesting how Vettel got 20secs ahead of everyone, when he's been so slow in the last 3 races. What did they magically change and where did they get it from, spying on Mercedes in Madrid ?

 lol, so with your logic any team that makes improvment should be accused of cheating!?

Mercedies have had three days of both their drivers, driving this years car with this years tires. Anyone who cant see the advantage that would give them does not really have a clue about F1, Every other team and driver agree it has given them an advantage apart from probebly concerned Lewis Hamilton fans...

Of course it's given them an advantage and I'm a Hamilton fan. Problem they have though is so badly inherent in their car that it's just a natural flaw to their car design. They've been searching for the answer for months, had this three day test and still the car has issues. Of course, that is all irrelevant to the case. I'm not that worried about the tribunal because Lewis is not involved in this WDC and really the only severe punishment, I would be worried about, is probably be expulsion from the Constructors and the knock-on effect that will have upon the team financially going forward into 2014. A hefty fine or points deduction really is a rather pointless end result if it occurs for this whole saga and something Mercedes would probably accept.

I already answered why Vettel got so far ahead of everyone and the specific reasons in bullet points - something anyone with half a brain will agree with who understands F1 - apart from Jubba, who thinks Red Bull, or anyone winning is cheating. Let's wait for the 20th, although I can see it being a complete anti-climax just like this season's title chase.

JubbaIsle wrote:
Also, lets not forget, Pirelli have it in their contract to pursue tests to unsure the safety of those tyres.

The issue is not in Pirelli requesting and carrying out tests for their tires, the issue is in how the tests where carried out with one particular team. Ferrari have also tested with them using their 2011 car, nothing wrong with that.  the issue is that a teams current car can only do a permuted amount of mileage a season where all the cars are let off their leash so to speak. This is to make it fair in terms of development, reliability and simply the drivers getting used to the car or learning more about it. Mercedes have had three days more than all the other teams.

The fact that Pirelli asked the FIA to bend the rules to afford a safety check on those tyres that were dangerous led to the FIA asking for parity in those tests by asking all teams to take part in a new kind of test.
Mercedes approached the FIA asking if such a test would be legal, they said yes if the caveats to Pirelli they asked for were put in place.

Obviously the FIA are not pleased with the claim that Mercedes ran it all by them first or we would not have this issue. It sounds like they were misinformed about what the tests where and did not permit the tests that Mercedes went ahead and carried out, from where I sit it sounds like Mercedes gave the impression they were going to carry out a similar test as Ferrari did with their 2011 car..so on.. but then went ahead and done their own thing.  If Pirelli were also in the wrong then it does not change much..

The FIA and Pirelli are the Contractors and Contracted, Mercedes are merely the tool to provide results for the test.
They were blind tests, no significant advantage would have been gained.

 Wrong, while the tests may not have been as open and thorough than an official legal test, to say they gained nothing from it is extremely bias or naive in my book... But even if the car its self would have gained no more advantage the drivers spending three days with their car playing with versions tires and you dont think it would merit an advantage over the other drivers?  Also the drivers would have known what compounds they were driving and feeling out, not to mention weather conditions changing and giving them data on how they drove in them...  While the team might not have gained digital analysis they would have gained lots of experience and verbal data.. when testing with their current car.. which is why its not aloud.

Where are Mercedes guilty of any infringement ?
What are Pirelli guilty of ?
Where does the FIA become culpable of involvement ?

I presume that is why we are having this tribunal, to find out who, what, when and why.

Yes
We dont know
by pointing out Mercedes were wrong to do the tests.

You cant punish a team with out hearing their defense, this is why the tribunal is in place.

It seems some are implying that it its the case that these tests did not offer as much of an advantage as an official test, then it does not matter. When even if they gained a quarter of what you can get out of an official test over the three days. Then its a signification advantage over the other teams.

My, we are aggressive aren't we tunes, chill out sonny or you'll get a headache.

Why you're not on the Tribunal panel is a mystery, you're so full of facts and truth.

Thanks for the insults Tunes and John, been nice talking to you.

I did insult you slightly, which I will apologise but I did not go as far as tunes. I just explained the reasoning behind Vettel's performance in Canada and why he escaped so easily, similar to the entire 2011 season and the importance of pole among other reasons. You did really, if not on purpose, kind of suggest that whoever is dominant in F1 must therefore be cheating and exploiting some kind of technical rule. I've got nothing against you or any one else posting there views and opinion on any topic on this forum.

tunes are you seriously saying that the FIA are without blame in this whole incident??

For the record Mercedes were INVITED by Pirelli to tyre test and according to statements they assured Mercedes it was all above board and that the FIA knew of the tests. Now as we know Mercedes have been terrible on their tyres this year so of course they'd jump at such a chance. It was Pirelli conducting the tests so it was their responsibility to abide the rules and invite all teams to test which evidently they never did. Now we know the FIA got wind of the tests before they took place so why (when they are supposed to be policing the sport) didn't they themselves send out invites to all teams to test? Sorry but that is incompetence on the FIA's behalf and obviously on behalf of Pirelli for not inviting all teams as well as was their duty.

For their part, Mercedes were naive to rules. I'd say they should have questioned the legitimacy once they realised they were the only team testing. Also daft to test with this year's car and drivers but I am sure I have read that Pirelli told them that everything was in order. That, therefore makes it Pirelli's fault.

Something doesn't add up on Mercedes end. As Craig says, surely nobody else turning up to test must've been odd in their eyes with the furore about tyres. And Hamilton and Rosberg testing in covert helmets? Even ignoring use of the current car.

Well, to further muddy the waters, Red Bull have said that Pirelli approached them regarding the new tests and they turned them down on the assertionthat they viewed the tests as beyond the rules.

So Pirelli did ask them, and prob some other teams too. What we don't know is if Pirelli had organised any other tests with other teams this year with regard to 2014 tyres. If so, then they may get off Scot free.

What I can see is that the RB, at least, turned down the tests, Mercedes didn't. Now who is responsible for over-seeing the validity and fairness of the tests and that they are carried out in accordance with the provisos set out by the FIA ?

Perhaps Red Bull had better recognition of the rules? Or if we are to believe Mercedes they say Pirelli assured them everything was above board and so perhaps Mercedes were too naive and never checked if they were breaking rules. Evidently though, other teams were asked.

John, point taken and apology too.

I reacted to the comparison that I had less than half a brain to agree with your analysis, although I'd take Gary Anderson's analysis of how Vettel won as more accurate, yours is still basically true.

I just wish tunes would read my posts fully before posting a reply, he's mis-read me a few times.

Well, CC, I suppose Mercedes have a case to answer for, in not, apparently, telling the FIA that they had agreed to do the tests. Surely Pirelli, being the contractors to do the tests outside the rules, were the people who should have informed the FIA that they had completed the FIA requests for fair testing, asked all teams to take part and had settled on Mercedes at that time to test the tyres after Madrid.

All Mercedes had to do was in affect, confirm the information that Pirelli should already have given the FIA in regard to Mercedes accepting their offer.

Did the FIA really need that confirmation from Mercedes. In fact should all teams have been asked to confirm whether they had accepted or not, to check whether Pirelli had conducted themselves within the provisos set by them. They are the governing body after all, and testing outside the rules would surely have piqued their interest to ensure equality to all teams.

My only other thought is that the FIA must have known about the tests in Madrid, it wasn't secret, using 2013 cars wasn't secret, they must have had inside and outside information regarding the tests, or do they bury their heads in the sand after each race meeting ? If so, wouldn't the governing body have asked all the other teams if they'd been approached, if, as they have intimated, Pirelli didnt get back to them. Wouldn't they be extremely annoyed that Pirelli went ahead partially over their heads without communicating their intentions.

Either they're a bunch of idiots or they knew and are trying to pass the buck because they have just realised they are idiots.

Apart from the rather dubious embellishment saying that Mercedes may quit F1 (The Guardians Art Dept on LSD), the news that Mr Brawn has a trump card to play at the tribunal should send shivers down the sports spine considering some teams responses so far.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jun/15/mercedes-pirelli-fia-hearing-test

That Mercedes can produce an email from Charlie Whiting proving that the FIA gave them permission to test should give a right proverbial boot up the back alley of the governing body and put to sleep any further ramifications that Mercedes had broken the rules.

Its beyond doubt that Mercedes did everything by the book, so that only leaves Pirelli and the FIA to sort out who's going for the drop. If a certain Mr Whiting should fall on his sword, either by pushing or of his own volition, then the scapegoat will have been clothed.

Interesting developments are about to unfold.

Jubba I have said all along that the FIA are culpable and incompetent. There are many things that just didn't add up in the whole issue.


1. Everyone knew of the tests as they took place at Barcelona directly after the Spanish Grand Prix so why weren't the FIA there to put a stop to it?

 2. I find it very hard to believe that someone as experienced and wise as Ross Brawn would undergo such tests under the noses of other teams and the FIA unless he had been given assurances which he said they were on the Sky Sports F1 channel at the start of the Monaco Grand Prix weekend.

3. We have heard that no other teams were invited but seemingly Red Bull were and declined so is that another lie from the FIA and perhaps all teams were invited? I doubt it but who knows?

4. Why would Pirelli put their heads on the chopping blocks and assure Mercedes that everything was above board if it wasn't? That tells me someone at the FIA gave them the go ahead.

Even if Ross Brawn does produce this damning evidence I fully expect the FIA to wriggle their way out of this. They will round to defend whoever gave the tests the go ahead and then randomly hand out a punishment to Mercedes - in my opinion.

It'll be a travesty if the FIA did indeed give partial acceptance and permission to Mercedes, and then deny any involvement as they have stated. Its either Brawn telling lies or the FIA trying to put a smoke screen up by initiating the tribunal as some kind of evidence they are innocent. They are part of the International committee that oversees the legal procedures of the sport, so I suspect you may be correct that they will administer a penalty of some kind but are in the enviable position of not being able to judge themselves for they are family.

Pirelli may well escape with nothing as they are not part of the ruling system and it'll be hard for the FIA tribunal to find them in breach of contract and or sustain any kind of penalisation against them, as they are under contract to test tyres, and that's all they have done.

Only Charlie could end up with the buck, which would save the FIA's faces and Mercedes/Pirelli from any convictions, but would they really send him to the lions ?

Yes because the FIA are trying to replace him with Ascanelli  i believe

Also Charlie is FIA delegate so getting permission from him is like getting permission from your wife doesn't really mean anything gotta go and ask Todt and all his cronies

I think Merc will be punished or fined one or the other while Pirelli will walk way free. 

Also ive been wondering but are Marussia switching to Ferrari engines next season with Banichi and Cosworth not making v6's and all?

It is well-renowned how the FIA defend their cronies to the end. We saw them fight to keep Max Mosley despite massive pressure so I fully expect them to sweep any contradicting evidence ie permission from Charlie Whiting firmly under the carpet. A meaty fine I believe will be handed out as Ecclestone has quite a lifestyle to maintain.

You just gotta love that Eccles fella, in one breath he states.....

"If you offer me stolen goods, it's up to me to decide whether I want to accept them or not. It's not up to anyone to tell me what I should do. I should know what I should do.
Pirelli were doing the right thing, obviously. They couldn't get out of a tyre problem, if there had been proper testing, which there should be, they wouldn't be in this problem.
It's only because there's no proper testing that they're in this problem. As people have been complaining, the obvious thing to do was to get out of it by testing. And they asked"

C'mon Bernie, say what you mean FGS !

Further, when asked if he felt the tyre manufacturer had done anything wrong, Ecclestone added: "Not at all."

So they're not peddling stolen goods then Bernie ???

Then he goes on to say......"I don't care. It makes no difference to me. What is right, is right, you know. The one thing an unmarried girl has got is the right to say 'no'," he said. "You would have to reckon that Mercedes were in that position..."

But then says..........""Wait until the tribunal, they've got all the facts"

Yeah right Bernie, as if you haven't already got an opinion and have made your mind up!!

Strange though that as part of the deal, Pirelli have significant advertising at each circuit, but Ecclestone says "the financial implications have no impact on his opinion"......stop giggling at the back !!!

Well the hearing is now under way.

Don't hold your breath though as according to yesterday the general opinion is that no decision will be reached today. Typical eh? Whereas the sport involves moving in high speed the FIA are the exact opposite.

It'll be tomorrow at the latest

Can keep up with it here : http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8783549/FIA-Tribunal-updates

It would seem Mercedes are pinning their hopes on two different angles. 

The tests were those of Pirelli who totally set the rules and conditions and were in full charge.

Also initial allowance for the tests were given by Charlie Whiting (Mercedes have emails as evidence) but then he consulted the FIA legal team to check if it were okay to test with a 2013 car and the legal team said yes providing the test was undertaken fully by Pirelli (which it was).

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22984415
Doesn't sound great for Mercedes and Pirelli

Can someone please tell me what punishment, other than removal of Mercedes from the Constructors and the prize money on offered, is going to actually have an effect upon this team. Their nowhere in either driver or team championship, so a big fine and exclusion seems the only real end result here if found guilty? As for Pirelli, I don't really care about them or their future/reputation. Tyre suppliers come and go from this sport.

Big anti-climax really in my opinion.

Exclusion from both would set the team back fairly heavily financially I suspect. Which would impact upon their ability to deliver a competitive car in 2014.

I doubt the FIA are to inclined to go far beyond a slap down.

When someone actually accuses Mercedes of something, then the case can go forward. EDIT..... "the FIA opened proceedings by charging Mercedes with "obtaining information during the test" which was "self-evidently prejudicial to the sporting competition"


For the prosecution to base their premise on a presumption that Mercedes got an advantage in doing the tests won't move any hills, neither can Mercedes prove they didn't get an advantage unless they can provide the telemetry data from Pirelli, which will show how the tests were conducted.....Howard has said...."Mercedes and Pirelli may have engaged in activity that was prejudicial to the competition"....may being the operative word.


From what I've read, the FIA are also trying to say although the tests were regarded as legal, if the other teams were involved, then it is down to Mercedes to ensure everybody knew and were aware of what the tests involved. But, if any team approached the FIA with an idea to conduct a test outside the rules, and they agreed asking that team to tell everybody else, then fair enough, but it was not Mercedes conducting the test, it was Pirelli and they are responsible for that.

Mercedes are not the contractors, and its the FIA's job to ensure equality as they enforce the regulations, so they should have told all the teams that Mercedes and Pirelli were going to conduct such a test. They knew about the tests and that Mercedes wanted to take part, sitting on yer R's waiting for news is not how a regulatory body should act.

But this is going to end in stalemate unless the tribunal can bring charges against Mercedes, and based on the evidence so far, Mercedes are only guilty of not informing the other teams to ensure fairness, so all I can see is a slanging match between Howard, Harris and Dumas to see who can impart the greatest spin.

Reading Sky's twitters and their anchorage at the tribunal, it looks as though Brawn may well have sealed Mercedes fate. A small and brief admittance that the Merc team did probably gain a little knowledge from the tests, but not a competitive advantage, although sounding innocent at first, could have ramifications on the decision if the tribunal is trying to find a culprit.

It upholds the FIA's case that Mercedes took part in an illegal test and gained from it. No matter how small the advantage, its there and Brawn admitted it to the court. This ain't going to end cleanly I fear.

Exactly Jubba.

This whole mess could quite easily have been avoided if the FIA had policed the sport competently. They knew of planned tests and as they are the law enforcers surely to god it is them that should have been contacting all teams and then this whole fiasco would never have come about. Sheer ineptitude of the highest order but the FIA will still have the utter cheek to take the moral high ground.

Brawn will probably leave anyway after this saga, in a way, it just gives Mercedes the ammunition or excuse to get rid of him, as they had planned anyway with the arrival of Paddy Lowe. 

This whole story has just been embarrassing for the sport. It will end in a big anti-climax.

Whats more - a totally avoidable embarrassment.

CC.....can the tribunal find against the FIA, seeing as they are a sister act ? not sure, but don't think so.

I think you may be right John, as much as the FIA are trying to cover their inadequacies as a regulatory body, the tribunal will sound out Brawn as a scapegoat and hand him a fine or something irrelevant. The sport can then go back to racing, Pirelli to testing tyres and the FIA to meandering its way through the rest of the season.

Mercedes on the other hand will never get this smear off the face as a result of the FIA's "head in the sand attitude" to anything extra-ordinary. Although from now on, this kind of thing shouldn't happen again, ever.

I really can't comprehend how the FIA can deny not doing everything by the book, when out of the blue, a contractor asks them to conduct an out of the ordinary, in season test for 2014/13 tyres with a regulation busting car, with only one team that has been asked to take part so far, agreeing on principal, which is as good as saying they accept the parameters on the proviso that other teams are asked, that the test can go ahead, and just sit there waiting for events to unfold before their eyes.

As a body recognised for their application of the rules and making sure the sport is carried out in a fair and correct manner, surely it was in their interest to inform all the teams that such a proposal had been submitted to them and that as far as they were concerned, it would be ok for the tests to be conducted if they all agreed.

For Pirelli to have done this, it would have taken ages to organise, same too with Mercedes. The FIA could have and should have set up an extraordinary meeting to discuss such a proposal. Found out who did or didnt want to take part and see if it would have remained fair and above board. Then they could have gone to the Motor Sporting (name I cant remember) body and asked them to bend the rules this time, as we have now found out, it was only the MS that could have ultimately sanctioned this.

For a non competitor to be given carte blanche access to a circuit to do some testing, with a current car in front of a horde of teams packing up for the next race and representatives from all corners of the sport, seems to me to be farcical, if, by definition, the FIA are the Governing Body they must have had knowledge that a test took place over three days on one of their governed race tracks. And then say nothing to nobody ?

Sheez....do they sound like a bunch of old school ties or what ?

I said exactly the same a few days ago Jubba. Not only did the FIA err in not telling all teams themselves that a planned test was on the cards but they then sat back (even though now they are saying it had no permission) and allowed them to get on with it whilst other teams were packing up after the Spanish Grand Prix. Would they even have done anything unless Red Bull and Ferrari had lodged a protest? Evidently not, after all the story only came to light on the news of the protest and not by the FIA clamping down themselves. Un-be-liev-able.

It is strange why they took no action, was it that they didnt believe Pirelli and Mercedes were serious ? that it was just a preliminary advance of an intention to test ?

It looks to have been going on for a while as per requirement on Pirelli's contract to test tyres, whether in or out of season. And they did make a request last year.

Well considering Mercedes and Brawn claim the FIA  knew of the tests and even permitted them I would say the FIA were in disarray legally and would have let it pass. Only when the protest came in did they act in order to make it look they had some balls as a governing body.

I know they've come in for a heap of criticism lately, for their inadequate handling of many F1 situations, but this time they deserve to be punished. Of course they won't, as they have not been brought to the tribunal for allegations of misconduct unbecoming of a governing body, they should have been included but are actually, for all intents and purposes, the prosecuting council.

If Mercedes get done for gaining knowledge through driving a car in clinical test conditions, then so too must Ferrari or any team who have used a Pirelli test in one of their cars, its irrelevant if the car is 1 or2 years old as the difference between them is negligible, at most half a second I think has been quoted.

An older car is permitted as memory serves