Scottish Pro team thread

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First topic message reminder :

There doesn't seem to be much going on but I thought it might be an idea to set up a thread devoted to transfers, coaching news and general new information to do with the Scottish pro clubs over the summer

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Terrible waste of his (Chalmers) coaching skills imho.

It seems that the Warriors are getting more and more autonomy from the SRU gnobheads, which can only be a good thing. The Rory Lamont scenario is rather worrying though.

[InjuredYetAgain]

What coaching skills are those? Chalmers got pots of cash courtesy of the Melrose 7s so his coaching skills extended to driving round other borders clubs picking up good players/getting SH players in rather than develop his own players.
Considering the resources he ad against, say, Ayr's, he has hardly set the heather on fire
His last season was hardly a roaring success - only was sure of avoiding relegation on the last day of the season if I remember.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Schiz - solidarity brother, Scotland is weaker when Edinburgh continue to be underpowered. It's in everyone's interest when they are strong.

I'm delighted with Kenny Murray's appointment. Incidentally, both Glasgow AND Edinburgh advertised for a Scottish assistant coach to joint their coaching set-ups, the difference being that Glasgow have chosen their guy and made their appointment. Murray is a west of Scotland man through and through and knows an enormous amount about young Scottish players - Mark Bennett and Gordon Reid were brought on through him. I think Murray is the best club coach in Scotland and everyone I know who is associated with Ayr thinks so too.

Pat MacArthur is one of his rugby prodigies too I believe.  Excellent appointment and well done Kenny Murray - sends the right signal to other club coaches too.    Continues the very obvious benefits to the Warriors and Ayr of continued close liaison.   Ayr have a rather good setup across all age ranges.

What is Chick Chalmers doing now btw ?

He's coaching a D2 side in Oxfordshire from what I recall. Which sounded to me at the time a lot like toys being tossed from a pram and he is biding his time in a nice part of the world until such time as the SRU comes off the medication and decides to employ Scottish coaches like him in plum jobs. I should add once again that he had every reason to be narked at the appointment of Townsend, who at the time was the only international attack coach on record to say that his side didn't need to score tries.

Chinnor RFC

I think that Chick's decision was also fairly heavily influenced by personal circumstances (but can't say more than that)

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

What coaching skills are those? Chalmers got pots of cash courtesy of the Melrose 7s so his coaching skills extended to driving round other borders clubs picking up good players/getting SH players in rather than develop his own players.
Considering the resources he ad against, say, Ayr's, he has hardly set the heather on fire
His last season was hardly a roaring success - only was sure of avoiding relegation on the last day of the season if I remember.

IYA, clearly there a fair amount of exaggeration in that - Chalmers and Melrose have developed plenty of home-grown talent, the best of which has moved on to the professional game. His pilfering from other clubs is no worse than the best borders teams traditionally did down the ages (ie Hawick, Gala, etc), and his record of success is pretty damn fine: two Scottish prem Division titles (2011 and 2012), Melrose won the Scottish cup in 2008 and were runners up in 2009, 2010 and 2011, several Borders league titles and a decent enough showing in the B&I Cup

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

True ASBO and I would imagine the MFLs would crawl over broken glass to get him (Chalmers) as coach now. Because any coach (exceptions Bradley, that other guy, Robinson etc etc) is better than none tbh.  

[InjuredYetAgain]

Ok, ASBO. There was an element of hyperbole in there but, in addition to the resources he has had compared to other clubs, one of my major gripes about Chalmers is that he seems to think the world (or SRU) owes him a living. He was banging on too often about how he deserved a pro coaching contract. It grated with me so I dare say the blazerati at Murrayfield didn't appreciate it either.
Like it or not, the way a coach handles himself in public (if you'll pardon the expression) is also really important. Chalmers getting blootered and the abusive after the 7s lead to a night in the cells and a court appearance. Can you honestly say that that is a good image for any pro club to portray. In addition, how can he then lecture his players about restraint .........?
Guys like Simon Cross at Edin Accies or Murray at vary went about their business quietly and very efficiently and have been recognised for this (ok, Cross is moving to England but you get my point) and moved up the career ladder.
As usual, phsyco has to get a dig in at Edinburgh but, as usual, he hasn't a clue what he is on about. I for one would rather have Steve Scott than Chalmers but I will agree with you to a point where no having a permanent coach at this time if pre-season is unacceptable.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Poor Festival Luvvies - such a shame they cannot even see what is under their noses. Probably because most of the time their noses are stuck up some establishment figures' bottom. 

[InjuredYetAgain]

Psycho - if I remember your inane ramblings correctly, you were extremely critical of Townsend's appointment to Glasgow. I guess that just shows the extent of your rugby "knowledge"/tolerance
Lay off the personal insults - it doesn't do you any favours

[RDW]

To be fair to 21st, he has admitted on here that his unfounded, uneducated ramblings about Townsend when he was appointed has been proven unfounded!

[George Carlin]

Q. Where did Saddam Hussein keep his CDs?
A. In Iraq.
 
Say it out loud.
 
Thread tension gone. Simples. 

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Ok, ASBO. There was an element of hyperbole in there but, in addition to the resources he has had compared to other clubs, one of my major gripes about Chalmers is that he seems to think the world (or SRU) owes him a living. He was banging on too often about how he deserved a pro coaching contract. It grated with me so I dare say the blazerati at Murrayfield didn't appreciate it either.
Like it or not, the way a coach handles himself in public (if you'll pardon the expression) is also really important. Chalmers getting blootered and the abusive after the 7s lead to a night in the cells and a court appearance. Can you honestly say that that is a good image for any pro club to portray. In addition, how can he then lecture his players about restraint .........?
Guys like Simon Cross at Edin Accies or Murray at vary went about their business quietly and very efficiently and have been recognised for this (ok, Cross is moving to England but you get my point) and moved up the career ladder.
As usual, phsyco has to get a dig in at Edinburgh but, as usual, he hasn't a clue what he is on about. I for one would rather have Steve Scott than Chalmers but I will agree with you to a point where no having a permanent coach at this time if pre-season is unacceptable.

Yep, there's no brushing the incident at the 7s under the carpet, but Chalmers held up his hand for that and apologised - he acknowledged he was in the wrong. I don't think there's a massive problem with that affecting his future coaching career, and the honest truth is that I believe he's a significant loss to coaching in Scotland at this point

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

BT to sponsor both Pro Teams, four year deal.

Glad to have a national brand on-board and the security of a long(ish) term deal. Assuming of course they have paid a decent price!

Sky secure the Rabo rights and 1/6th of the league sponsored by their main rivals.

[RDW]

Good to see Glasgow finally have a sponsor!

Take it they will be the main shirt sponsor for both teams?

[Tramptastic]

Will that replace the highly confusing "Aberdeen Asset" logo on the Edinburgh shirts?

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Good to see Glasgow finally have a sponsor!

Take it they will be the main shirt sponsor for both teams?

I know they are Glasgow's Shirt sponsor, I am only assuming that they will be Edinburgh's as they are saying its a joint deal.

Glad that Glasgow have a shirt sponsor and hope its a decent deal.  Club got a bit of stick last season for not securing a deal, despite having offers on the table.

[George Carlin]

Good to see Glasgow finally have a sponsor!

Take it they will be the main shirt sponsor for both teams?

I imagine so and this will doubtless dovetail well with Macron producing both shirts.
 
Hopefully it will also minimise the size of the logo plonked onto the middle of the shirt. How much space can two letters take up?
 
After Glasgow's great season, there was no way that they were going to be without a principal shirt sponsor this year. Nathan Bomrys would have found out last year what happens when you price yourself too high. Some money is better than none. Live and learn. Just glad that the sponsor wasn't Durex or Immodium...

Edit: Apparently Glasgow have about 100 season tickets left only...

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Good to see Glasgow finally have a sponsor!

Take it they will be the main shirt sponsor for both teams?

After Glasgow's great season, there was no way that they were going to be without a principal shirt sponsor this year. Nathan Bomrys would have found out last year what happens when you price yourself too high. Some money is better than none.

From a Business point of view, I don't necessarily agree with that. It's about placing a value on your product and holding out for that price.

It looks as if they were correct to hold out, assuming BT deal is of a decent value.

[allyt2k]

Grayson Hart coming to Edinburgh?

Twitter

14 July
''Farewell Sydney enjoyed my time what an amazing city an people can't wait to return one day. Nz for a couple weeks then the new adventure!''.

“@IAmJohnLai: @grayson_hart New adventure? do share my bro” Apparently have to wait for club to announce bro but im off to a land far away!!.

16 July
''Braveheart is prob the best movie of all time.. Disappointed in myself it took me all these years to re watch it''.

[nickj]

That could be amazing news!

[Tramptastic]

That's not bad like, what club do we reckon he's going to? Hopefully Edinburgh but then Im scared this would limit Sean Kennedys game time!

[Weegie Wizard]

If correct, this would probably mean Laidlaw will move back to 10 with Hart and Kennedy covering 9. Interesting to see how that goes.

Or he could be coming to the weej!!

[George Carlin]

Good to see Glasgow finally have a sponsor!

Take it they will be the main shirt sponsor for both teams?

After Glasgow's great season, there was no way that they were going to be without a principal shirt sponsor this year. Nathan Bomrys would have found out last year what happens when you price yourself too high. Some money is better than none.

From a Business point of view, I don't necessarily agree with that.  It's about placing a value on your product and holding out for that price.  

It looks as if they were correct to hold out, assuming BT deal is of a decent value.  

Not sure I agree Dot. Famous Grouse were very interested last year but thought that Glasgow was overpricing itself and because Response pulled out late, there was no time for a lengthy negotiation. Last year was last year, there was money available and we didn't take it. If we were also tied by that deal for this year, then I'd agree with you but I understand that a one year deal was all that was offered last season.
 
Either way, I am hoping that the Macron boys do a good job because I'm going to be back in the UK in August and I'm planning on buying one of everything. That's including a mini Warriors fleece for my 18 month old. She'll appreciate it when she's older...

[George Carlin]

Grayson Hart coming to Edinburgh?

Twitter

14 July
''Farewell Sydney enjoyed my time what an amazing city an people can't wait to return one day. Nz for a couple weeks then the new adventure!''.

“@IAmJohnLai: @grayson_hart New adventure? do share my bro” Apparently have to wait for club to announce bro but im off to a land far away!!.

16 July
''Braveheart is prob the best movie of all time.. Disappointed in myself it took me all these years to re watch it''.

I know that he's SQ because of a grandparent but does his caps with the NZ U20s render him ineligible?

[Captain_Sensible]

Grayson Hart coming to Edinburgh?

Twitter

14 July
''Farewell Sydney enjoyed my time what an amazing city an people can't wait to return one day. Nz for a couple weeks then the new adventure!''.

“@IAmJohnLai: @grayson_hart New adventure? do share my bro” Apparently have to wait for club to announce bro but im off to a land far away!!.

16 July
''Braveheart is prob the best movie of all time.. Disappointed in myself it took me all these years to re watch it''.

I know that he's SQ because of a grandparent but does his caps with the NZ U20s render him ineligible?

No idea. Hope not.

The other possibility is that he's coming to the NH, but not to a Scottish team. That might be the best solution, actually.

[RDW]

Who is Grayson Hart?

[allyt2k]

Grayson Hart coming to Edinburgh?

Twitter

14 July
''Farewell Sydney enjoyed my time what an amazing city an people can't wait to return one day. Nz for a couple weeks then the new adventure!''.

“@IAmJohnLai: @grayson_hart New adventure? do share my bro” Apparently have to wait for club to announce bro but im off to a land far away!!.

16 July
''Braveheart is prob the best movie of all time.. Disappointed in myself it took me all these years to re watch it''.

I know that he's SQ because of a grandparent but does his caps with the NZ U20s render him ineligible?

Nope Junior All Blacks are there second team not the U20

[Captain_Sensible]

Who is Grayson Hart?

25 yr old Kiwi scrum half.

[tigertattie]

The NZ Maori/Junior NZ are considered the "2nd team" for NZ so U20 caps for NZ will not stop him playing for Scotland if he wanted.

It's only those eejits in Wales that muddy the water by having thier U20's as thier 2nd team!

[allyt2k]

Who is Grayson Hart?

He's a Scrum Half Cusiter played with in Aus before the world cup to get back to fitness and he told the SRU to get him here, his playing style isn't far of a young Mike Blair with a bit more bulk.

Date of birth 19 June 1988 (age 25)
Place of birth Kaitaia, New Zealand
Height 1.85 m (6 ft 1 in)
Weight 95 kg (14 st 13 lb)

Playing career
Position Scrum-half

Provincial/State sides

2007–2009
Auckland

2010
Harbour

Super Rugby

2008–2010
Blues

2012
NSW Waratahs

National team(s)
2008 New Zealand New Zealand U20

[RDW]

SQ?

[Captain_Sensible]

SQ?

Yup. Through a grannie.

[reallybored]

Don't know anything about Grayson Hart but it's awful for Edinburgh.

Why are they obsessed with shifting Laidlaw away from 9?  He's the current Scotland 9 and will never be a top fly-half. Looked great for Scotland at 9 during the summer and wants to play there.  Plus, we need to develop either Leonard, Francis or Hunter NOT PLAY SOMEONE OUT OF POSITION!!

Plus the most promising scrum-half in Scottish rugby, Kennedy, will now have less game-time.

Whoever is in charge of Edinburgh's recruitment needs a good hard slap and P45, Edinburgh need a better front-five first and foremost not reinforcement in positions of relative strength.

I hope Ford, Gilchrist, Rennie, Denton, Laidlaw, Kennedy, Scott and Visser leave sooner rather than later, rather than having their career's destroyed by the SRU's inept management of Edinburgh.

[RDW]

Interesting. Neither team needs a scrum half but with Henry Pyrgos currently our 2nd / 3rd choice 9 I’m more than happy to bring in extra options!

He surely can’t go to Glasgow but as has been said Kennedy will probably be relegated from regular game time to the odd appearance if he goes to Edinburgh.

Or this could be gossip and he doesn’t go to either team!

If he does come to Edinburgh I can’t see Laidlaw shifting – it is quite a risk to rely on a newcomer as your first choice 9 and I think Laidlaw should be kept at 9 for the long term.

[reallybored]

So what's the point in signing someone as second choice when it means Kennedy doesn't get the game-time?

Why not save the money and bring in a better quality lock or blind-side?

I really hate Edinburgh and the SRU right now.

[RDW]

Remember this is just a rumour – save your hatred for the confirmation!

[reallybored]

RWD - this is exactly the type of signing I'd expect from Edinburgh, heaven forbid we sign someone we actually need.

Who's actually running Edinburgh? Doherty got canned last season right?

[GLove39]

Since we're discussing rumours, Ma Nonu's time with the Highlanders isn't really working out. And there's rumours he might head overseas.

Now it seems logical that the next step from playing for the Highlanders would be to get as close to the actual Highlands as possible. And since Glasgow have the  playing for them, well it can only mean Edinburgh (you heard it here first!!!).

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Good to see Glasgow finally have a sponsor!

Take it they will be the main shirt sponsor for both teams?

After Glasgow's great season, there was no way that they were going to be without a principal shirt sponsor this year. Nathan Bomrys would have found out last year what happens when you price yourself too high. Some money is better than none.

From a Business point of view, I don't necessarily agree with that.  It's about placing a value on your product and holding out for that price.  

It looks as if they were correct to hold out, assuming BT deal is of a decent value.  

Not sure I agree Dot. Famous Grouse were very interested last year but thought that Glasgow was overpricing itself and because Response pulled out late, there was no time for a lengthy negotiation. Last year was last year, there was money available and we didn't take it. If we were also tied by that deal for this year, then I'd agree with you but I understand that a one year deal was all that was offered last season.
 
Either way, I am hoping that the Macron boys do a good job because I'm going to be back in the UK in August and I'm planning on buying one of everything. That's including a mini Warriors fleece for my 18 month old. She'll appreciate it when she's older...

Yes, but the club had been underselling and at times almost giving away sponsorship deals.  Board last year wanted to draw a line under that and made some decisions about the value of the brand we are growing.  It appears to have worked, all be it a cost of not having a sponsor last year.  Short term pain, towards long term gain.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Remember this is just a rumour – save your hatred for the confirmation!

Good point, RDW - if true, on the one hand it makes sense in the short- to medium-term for the national team, in terms of providing back-up to Laidlaw for the national team (assuming that Cus doesn't make it back, worst case scenario, and Henry isn't up to it imo), but on the other hand for Edinburgh it could set Sean Kennedy's development back considerably, and Laidlaw is not a flyhalf. Curious  

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Its does sound from his tweets that he is heading to Scotland or at the very least the NH, with an eye on playing for Scotland.

I can't see him coming to Glasgow, so it does sound if true he is heading East.

Could Edinburgh do with strengthening elsewhere? Yes! But would the Scotland coaches bite your hand off to have another quality scrum half available to them, yes!!!

Its the trade off that is required sometimes when you only have 2 Pro teams.

[EWT Spoons]

To play this Hart chat out further (i.e. what else he has said on Twitter) following the chat contained in the post earlier, new adventure etc, he responded to another lad who is moving to play in France (John Ulugia) saying “I’ll see you over there bro”

So, I think we can confirm he’s moving over to play in the NH….yeah I know this was already the assumption, but you could equally say that he is moving to France rather than Scotland or vice versa.

[RDW]

To be fair, NZ is so far away I wouldn't be surprised if they class the whole of Europe as 'over there'!

On the Sean Kenendy topic, although it will limit his game time more I'm not quite as concerned about his development. He is still very young and it is maybe too much asking to be 2nd choice, and even 1st choice if Laidlaw gets injured. I'm sure he'd do fine but let's not get carried away (a la  ) - he's still a young pro learning his trade.

If Hart does come it does mean Kennedy will be 3rd choice but, with Laidlaw one of the first names on the Scotland teamsheet, he is going to be rested for a number of games this year. Therefore Kennedy will still see gametime, and will be allowed to develop with 2 top class SHs working with him.

Edinburgh will definitely be stronger with Hart signing - but a scrum half is way down my list of priorities for Edinburgh just now!

[RDW]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayson_Hart

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

To be fair, NZ is so far away I wouldn't be surprised if they class the whole of Europe as 'over there'!

On the Sean Kenendy topic, although it will limit his game time more I'm not quite as concerned about his development.  He is still very young and it is maybe too much asking to be 2nd choice, and even 1st choice if Laidlaw gets injured. I'm sure he'd do fine but let's not get carried away (a la  ) - he's still a young pro learning his trade.

If Hart does come it does mean Kennedy will be 3rd choice but, with Laidlaw one of the first names on the Scotland teamsheet, he is going to be rested for a number of games this year.  Therefore Kennedy will still see gametime, and will be allowed to develop with 2 top class SHs working with him.

Edinburgh will definitely be stronger with Hart signing - but a scrum half is way down my list of priorities for Edinburgh just now!

I don't believe that it will benefit Scotland for Laidlaw to play 10 for Embra

[EWT Spoons]

To be fair, NZ is so far away I wouldn't be surprised if they class the whole of Europe as 'over there'!

This is true, I was just basing my chat on him mentioning Braveheart and saying he'll see a team mate who is moving to France 'over there'.  Therefore two countries covered, actually a fair old wedge of Braveheart was filmed in Ireland (tenuous) so could be moving there. Yeah, it could literally be anywhere.

[RDW]

To be fair, NZ is so far away I wouldn't be surprised if they class the whole of Europe as 'over there'!

On the Sean Kenendy topic, although it will limit his game time more I'm not quite as concerned about his development.  He is still very young and it is maybe too much asking to be 2nd choice, and even 1st choice if Laidlaw gets injured. I'm sure he'd do fine but let's not get carried away (a la  ) - he's still a young pro learning his trade.

If Hart does come it does mean Kennedy will be 3rd choice but, with Laidlaw one of the first names on the Scotland teamsheet, he is going to be rested for a number of games this year.  Therefore Kennedy will still see gametime, and will be allowed to develop with 2 top class SHs working with him.

Edinburgh will definitely be stronger with Hart signing - but a scrum half is way down my list of priorities for Edinburgh just now!

I don't believe that it will benefit Scotland for Laidlaw to play 10 for Embra

I don't think it will mean Laidlaw moves to 10 though!

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

To be fair, NZ is so far away I wouldn't be surprised if they class the whole of Europe as 'over there'!

On the Sean Kenendy topic, although it will limit his game time more I'm not quite as concerned about his development.  He is still very young and it is maybe too much asking to be 2nd choice, and even 1st choice if Laidlaw gets injured. I'm sure he'd do fine but let's not get carried away (a la  ) - he's still a young pro learning his trade.

If Hart does come it does mean Kennedy will be 3rd choice but, with Laidlaw one of the first names on the Scotland teamsheet, he is going to be rested for a number of games this year.  Therefore Kennedy will still see gametime, and will be allowed to develop with 2 top class SHs working with him.

Edinburgh will definitely be stronger with Hart signing - but a scrum half is way down my list of priorities for Edinburgh just now!

I don't believe that it will benefit Scotland for Laidlaw to play 10 for Embra

I don't think it will mean Laidlaw moves to 10 though!

Agree!

As you have said with Laidlaw certain to be away with Scotland, before you take into account injuries, he is going to miss at least 8 games this season. This means that Kennedy will still see loads of game time, even if he is 3rd choice.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

As usual no exact details of how much the BT deal is. However SRU are saying it dwarfs any shirt deal they have done.

[RDW]

The other way of looking at it is how it will push Laidlaw on. We saw on V2 during the build up to the Lions that plenty people have opinions on his weaknesses, but one of his main strengths is his mental attitude and determination. He will have known more than anyone that his performances this season for Edinburgh weren’t great, and he managed to improve himself to have some really strong performances for Scotland in the summer.

If he’s got genuine competition it will only make him work even harder to improve his game.

Saying that if he’s captain and Edinburgh’s only reliable goalkicker it might not be the best idea to sub him off in games, meaning it doesn’t overly matter who the other scrum half is…!

[funnyExiledScot]

1. Laidlaw must never play 10 again. If he's to become the international quality 9 Scotland really need him to be, then he needs to be a specialist 9 at Edinburgh. His performance against South Africa in the summer was his first top quality performance at 9 for Scotland, showing that he's getting better the more time he gets at 9. If he's used at 10 for Edinburgh this season, then Scotland are in trouble. Cusiter is always injured, Blair and Lawson are pretty much out of sight, Pyrgos is very average and Kennedy makes Bennett look a seasoned veteran.

2. Never heard of Grayson Hart, but if he's any good at all I'm happy to have him on board at Edinburgh. Chris Leck is a holding operation and Kennedy is a kid. I have huge hopes for Kennedy but were Laidlaw to get injured, then we'd be thin on the ground, and I don't think Hidalgo-Clyne will be ready. I basically see this as swapping Leck for Hart, and looking at Hart's profile, that's an improvement. Plus, with Matawalu comfortably first choice for Glasgow, Scotland need more options, and Cusiter's TV commitments don't seem to permit him to play meaningful rugby anymore.

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