Lions v Barbarians (Official Match Thread)

[mrzimmerman]

First topic message reminder :

The team has been named. What do you think? Predictions for the match?

British & Irish Lions:
S Hogg (Scotland); A Cuthbert (Wales), J Davies (Wales), J Roberts (Wales), S Maitland (Scotland); O Farrell (England), M Phillips (Wales); M Vunipola (England), R Hibbard (Wales), A Jones (Wales), R Gray (Scotland), P O’Connell (Ireland, capt), D Lydiate (Wales), J Tipuric (Wales), T Faletau (Wales).

Replacements: T Youngs (England), C Healy (Ireland), M Stevens (England), A W Jones (Wales), J Heaslip (Ireland), C Murray (Ireland), J Sexton (Ireland), G North (Wales).


Barbarians:
15 Jared Payne, 14 Joe Rokocoko, 13 Elliot Daly, 12 Casey Laulala, 11 Taku Ngwenya, 10 Nick Evans, 9 Dimitri Yachvili, 8 Sergio Parisse,
7 Sam Jones, 6 Samu Manoa, 5 Dean Mumm, 4 Marco Wentzel, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Schalk Brits, 1 Paul James.

Replacements: 16 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 17 Duncan Jones, 18 Jim Hamilton, 19 Imanol Harinordoquy, 20 Andrea Lo Cicero, 21 Kahn Fotuali'i, 22 James Hook, 23 Mike Tindall.

[red_stag]

This is almost the least Welsh side he could have named given his policy of not starting anyone who was involved in a Domestic final.

If Murray was in for Phillips he would have named a non-Welsh player in every position he had an alternative in from the squad of 23 he had before the Leinster, Leicester and Ulster guys joined.

Thats only because it would be ridiculous to name 15 Welsh players. 9 is obviously still a lot so clearly he had to mix it up a bit or he would have been slated by the press.

Are you implying he wanted to select a full 15 Welsh?

Seriously just relax and enjoy the game. Gatland picks basically as many non Welsh as is practical for this game and you grumble because you think that deep down he would have preferred not to?

Wait for the first test. If he starts naming 10 Welsh in the test teams then by all means speak about how you'd like to see some variety. But in this game it was never going to happen.

[GunsGerms]

This is almost the least Welsh side he could have named given his policy of not starting anyone who was involved in a Domestic final.

If Murray was in for Phillips he would have named a non-Welsh player in every position he had an alternative in from the squad of 23 he had before the Leinster, Leicester and Ulster guys joined.

Thats only because it would be ridiculous to name 15 Welsh players. 9 is obviously still a lot so clearly he had to mix it up a bit or he would have been slated by the press.

Are you implying he wanted to select a full 15 Welsh?

Seriously just relax and enjoy the game. Gatland picks basically as many non Welsh as is practical for this game and you grumble because you think that deep down he would have preferred not to?

Wait for the first test. If he starts naming 10 Welsh in the test teams then by all means speak about how you'd like to see some variety. But in this game it was never going to happen.

No go back to bed Stag stop being such a WUM.

[red_stag]

Guns, if we see 10 of <insert any nationality> in the starting XV of any Lions Test matches I'll join you in saying its too much. You have my word.

[maestegmafia]

Without a doubt Maestegmafia,

Even from guys not on tour. Ryan Jones and Kelly Brown are as good as any #6 in Britain or Ireland. Peter O'Mahony was touted by many as a dark horse. Tom Wood stood a chance of touring.

The battle between O'Brien v Croft v Lydiate will be very interesting especially as there is still the option of Tipuric forcing Warburton across to the #6 shirt.

To be honest I'm not that fussed on who I see in the backrow. There are oodles of units. I have to say I think the Lydiate, Warburton, Falatau axis is not the most effective but if its selected I wont mind that much.

I think that the front row battle has been thrown wide open with Hartleys dismissal plus Gethin Jenkins injury.

I envisioned a situation where they would want to keep national units together in the front row and could have really seen Jenkins, Hibbard and Jones starting the games being replaced by Vunipola, Hartley and Stevens. However I think things have shifted here and we're likely to see some more vareity.

Of all the back rows selected, I wonder who would have been cut if Stephen Ferris had been available.

Unfortunately for Ferris we will never know.

How is he progressing with his recovery ?

Think I heard he has to have another op on the ankle and could be out for another six months.

Sad news, poor bloke isn't having too much luck..!

[GunsGerms]

Guns, if we see 10 of in the starting XV of any Lions Test matches I'll join you in saying its too much. You have my word.

I dont think we will I expect the test team to be fairly mixed with a couple of surprises.

[maestegmafia]

The same happens every lions tour. welsh, Scots and Irish players are talked down by the English fans who know little if anything about rugby outside of the England team, or maybe their club if they have one.

After a few games of supporting the Lions, players of all the home nations they suddenly see how incredibly talented many of the Irish, Scots and Welsh players are.

For a month at least, before they forget and continue on how great JW is...!


Best to just ignore them

Unfortuantely that goes both ways Maes, there is biased and anti English posts as often as there are anti Welsh, Irish or Scottish on here.

I wouldn't like to think the majority of posters on here were anti any nation. A horrible thought...!

Let me rephrase my point more that in the Pro 12 countries we know far more about each other as we regularly play each others teams, watch the highlights and listen to commentary on Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

In England the only time the majority of fans pay any attention to anyone outside the premiership is HEC, Amlin or Six Nations. The TV coverage on rugby in England rarely ever mentions welsh, scots or Irish rugby and therefor the fans know very little about the teams or players outside compared to the rest of us.

[belovedfrosties]

poor Dan i hope he doesn't read these threads . its always going to be the case we all want our fellow kinsman to take the test shirts but i got a feeling it be taken out of Dans hands with tips playing outstanding openside tomorrow that warburton moved to blindside being the captain for the first test .

Id say Warburton will be 7 with O'Brien more likely at 6 or possibly Lydiate. More balance that way than playing two 7s. Like you say though Im biased toward Irish players.

I expect either Jamie Heaslip or Tom Croft to make the starting team in order to give them a real lineout option at the tail. To me Sean O'Brien is the ideal bench man. Covers all positions and will bring on an explosive ball carrying ability.

I don't rate Lydiate much as an all rounder but he is a superb tackler and reminds me a bit of Joe Worsley in his style of play. I don't feel he deserves to be on tour ahead of many other backrows but now that he is here he stands as much a chance of anyone as starting. I think we're either looking at:

06 Lydiate
07 Warburton
08 Heaslip

or else what some else suggested moving Warburton:

06 Warburton
07 Tipuric
08 Heaslip

with Sean O'Brien covering on the bench. Equally I think Croft, Warburton, Falatau is a well balanced unit but will Warburton play as well alongside Croft? I suppose thats what the warm up games are for.

As much as you'd hate to think Gatland has his test team picked you'd have to imagine he has given it some thought.

Realistically he has 4 games to make up his mind.

- Barbarians
- Western Force
- Queensland Reds
- NSW/QLD Combined Counties

The Waratahs game is 7 days before the first test and the Brumbies game is just 4 days before it. Realistically he needs to have decided by the Tahs game.

Given that one of the games is against the Barbarians and he isn't playing with a full deck he has really three matches to check out different combos.

SOB is an outstanding option for the test side though he is more of an injury worry than Warburton, he's been out for nearly four weeks.

Croft is a great line out option and a fantastically fast attacking player, a real try scorer in the Colin Charvis mould. But his last international match he went missing big time. He has a lot to prove to make the test team on more than reputation. He definitely has the ability.

Blindside is likely the most competitive position in the squad.

It's things like this that i was referring to previously about basing decisions on 1 game. Croft had played half a test before the wales game after a 6 month lay off from a career threatening injury, it's ridiculous to use this as a basis of how good he is, at least he's actually played a test match in the last year!!! His form coming into the end of season has been excellent (as was Lydiates) yet Lydiate is nailed on and Croft has a lot to prove in your eyes, despite the fact that Croft has shown himself to be an excellent 6 in the 6N and a star of the last Lions tour an offers far more around the pitch than Lydiate does. Your view is far more biased and anti-english than my post was anti-welsh and you offer no explanation as to why you think Lydiate should be ahead, just that I'm anti everyone except england which renders all opinions against Lydiate as null and void.

Both are great players and offer different things, but for me Croft can do what Lydiate does and has an x-factor that Dan cannot match, so i feel he should be ahead of him. And before you start saying it, no I'm not xenophobic, i'm not anti-welsh, i just think that Croft is a better player for this tour than Dan is, this is an opinion site after all and if i can't express mine reasonably without being accused of being a biased englishman then what on earth is the point?

[munkian]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

[maestegmafia]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Very true. The ITV lads cover a bit of prem for half an hour but that's it.

[Breadvan]

The same happens every lions tour. welsh, Scots and Irish players are talked down by the English fans who know little if anything about rugby outside of the England team, or maybe their club if they have one.

After a few games of supporting the Lions, players of all the home nations they suddenly see how incredibly talented many of the Irish, Scots and Welsh players are.

For a month at least, before they forget and continue on how great JW is...!


Best to just ignore them

Unbelievable. If having a daily pop at Farrell wasn't enough you come out with this gem.

[maestegmafia]

The same happens every lions tour. welsh, Scots and Irish players are talked down by the English fans who know little if anything about rugby outside of the England team, or maybe their club if they have one.

After a few games of supporting the Lions, players of all the home nations they suddenly see how incredibly talented many of the Irish, Scots and Welsh players are.

For a month at least, before they forget and continue on how great JW is...!


Best to just ignore them

Unbelievable. If having a daily pop at Farrell wasn't enough you come out with this gem.

I watch the premiership and England internationals.

I do t rate Farrell. Same as many many England fans.

Why don't you stick to talking rugby instead of social comment, just for a change

[HammerofThunor]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

[Breadvan]

I do talk rugby, I was astonished at that statement levelled at posters on here. Apart from the obviuos sums, the debates been quite well balanced on all sides.

[Duty281]

Sky's coverage is tip top I have to say. Roll on tomorrow, although it may be a slow start considering the 30 degree heat and 80-90% humidity.

[doctor_grey]

Sky's coverage is tip top I have to say. Roll on tomorrow, although it may be a slow start considering the 30 degree heat and 80-90% humidity.

I'm not so sure the temp and humidity is all that severe. Granted Hong Kong from April to October is like being in a soup bowl, but I think top athletes should be able to cope with 30°C for an hour and a half. Especially since they will be playing essentially quarters as opposed to two halves. Also they will all be constantly hydrated.

ps. my nurse just asked me how many quarters...................
Good thing, she is cute.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

hahahahahahaha! LOVE it.

The quarters thing is gonna be very strange I think

[reallybored]

Don't know about anyone else but I'm ridiculously excited.

Obviously I want the Scottish boys to have stormers but I want to see Vunipola offer a threat in the loose, O'Connell dominating the line-out, Lydiate chopping players down, Tipuic running riot at breakdown, Philips on the front foot making yard, Farrell controlling the game well, Roberts hitting the form of 09, Davies breaking on the outside shoulder or Cuthbert notching up a brace.

Nothing wrong with supporting your own players more, you've always got favourites in a team but you still want to see the team perform and become Legends in 4 weeks time.

[nathan]

Why all the optimism for Best's prospects? Hard to see him going from 4th choice to 1st just because he eventually got his plane ticket. Gats obviously doesn't rate him.

Why is it hard? he is probably the best Hooker on tour, his omission for Hartley was puzzling at best and Youngs playing for England ahead of Hartley was in itself debatable. IMO he was largely responsible for Coles poor scrummaging performances in a white shirt this year. Sure he a busy bee but too small ala Lee Mears at this level

First point - Because three other hookers were selected ahead of him, two of whom are still there.

Second point - Not being smart but your opinion doesn't matter a whit to anyones prospects of making the test team.

and yours even less judging by your comments. Hey England can keep picking Youngs as long as they like, that is if Cole doesn't bury him under his patio so that he can stop being made to look a mug by his pint sized pal.

Been reading blues comments eh!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I want to see Stuart Hogg run. absolute. riot.

[t1000advancedprototype]

HAHAHAHAHHAHA

Scott Quinnell just said, "Vainipolo". New guy?

[Taffineastbourne]

I just wish that Kelly Brown was there!Ooops!I was in touch with my Scottish side for a moment.
Come on the Lions!!!!!!!!!

[flyhalffactory]

Don't know about anyone else but I'm ridiculously excited.

Obviously I want the Scottish boys to have stormers but I want to see Vunipola offer a threat in the loose, O'Connell dominating the line-out, Lydiate chopping players down, Tipuic running riot at breakdown, Philips on the front foot making yard, Farrell controlling the game well, Roberts hitting the form of 09, Davies breaking on the outside shoulder or Cuthbert notching up a brace.

Nothing wrong with supporting your own players more, you've always got favourites in a team but you still want to see the team perform and become Legends in 4 weeks time.

Good Man.......

Can't wait now..............I would liked to have seen Maitland in his preferred position on the right wing, then we might have been in a fortunate position to witness a billy whizz axis 13/14/15 axis of Davies/Maitland/Hogg WOW SCORCHING

[t1000advancedprototype]

This would be my lions / barbarians combined XV from tomorrow's squads

15. Hogg
14. Cuthbert
13. Davies
12. Roberts
11. North
10. Hook
9. Phillips

8. Faletau
7. Tipuric
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. POC
3. Jones
2. Hibbard
1. Paul James

What a team.

[maestegmafia]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

[t1000advancedprototype]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

I disagree. He knows plenty about Tuilagi, Barritt, Hartley, Botha, Vunipola.

[maestegmafia]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

I disagree. He knows plenty about Tuilagi, Barritt, Hartley, Botha, Vunipola.

They were featured in the Daily Mail rugby column.

[Hound of Harrow]

Honestly, will some of you Welsh guys just can the sniping about the English and what you think we think about the merits of non English players. Many of us do watch HC games involving non English teams

I travel 8-9 miles to a pub where I know I will get rugby on to watch AP & Rabo games via Sky*. But here's the the difference - it has to be a game worth watching for me. Sadly there are often too few international quality players on view in the Rabo (and I understand why that's the case) to justify the expense of travelling sometimes.

You are blydi lucky that the celtic nations are still allowed to have free to air rugby via national broadcasters. A right that was taken away from us in England (via freeview) when the BBC withdrew the channels from freeview a couple of years ago.

* We have had to battle with the footy contingent, but now we have a screen, and area of the pub, pretty much dedicated to rugby if there is a game on.

[Pal Joey]

Just a quick reminder for anyone interested in the v2 Rugby tipping comp.

http://www.superbru.com/lions/pool_overview.php?p=11078179

Pool: v2 Rugby
Code: foestarn

You'll be quickly approved but hurry... don't be too late. Kick off in HK is at 12:30pm UK time.

[markb]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

What an utterly ridiculous comment.

[Pal Joey]

Biceps,

I've added "Match Thread" to your topic title.

Hope that's OK, mate?

[Breadvan]

Honestly, will some of you Welsh guys just can the sniping about the English and what you think we think about the merits of non English players. Many of us do watch HC games involving non English teams

I travel 8-9 miles to a pub where I know I will get rugby on to watch AP & Rabo games via Sky*. But here's the the difference - it has to be a game worth watching for me. Sadly there are often too few international quality players on view in the Rabo (and I understand why that's the case) to justify the expense of travelling sometimes.

You are blydi lucky that the celtic nations are still allowed to have free to air rugby via national broadcasters. A right that was taken away from us in England (via freeview) when the BBC withdrew the channels from freeview a couple of years ago.

* We have had to battle with the footy contingent, but now we have a screen, and area of the pub, pretty much dedicated to rugby if there is a game on.

Unfortunately your pishing in the wind hound.....

[doctor_grey]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

C'mon, mate.
That is unfair and wrong, at least for many of us. Rabo League fans can comment knowledgeably about Premiership teams and players, but Premiership fans cannot do the same? That comment is somewhat disingenuous. And frankly, beneath you, methinks.

I think most fans watch their team and their league, and then watch other teams and leagues when time allows because we are all Rugby fans, but also fairly busy. Maybe here on 606 we are not quite the norm since we take time to discuss Rugby a bit more than is typical.

I know you watch a lot of Rugby, but you are probably more the exception than the rule I would think. I watch what I can, Premiership, Celtic League, and Top 14. Super Rugby comes on in a few minutes, in fact, which I thoroughly enjoy watching. You know I have affection for certain areas in Wales and enjoy the Welsh Premiership. So I have a fairly decent appreciation for Welsh players and teams. I do try to watch other teams, and this season I really like Ulster, when healthy. I hope this makes me a normal Rugby fan.

By the way, I might be the only orthopaedist in America who shows Rugby in the waiting area. Slowly gaining Rugby mind control on the unsuspecting American public...........

[Guest]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

Absolutely ridiculous comment Maesteg. I take it from the time of posting that you were inebriated???

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Somebody on Radio Five suggested that this game could last 4½ hours with the planned and unplanned water breaks.

Surely there's no credence in that statement.

[RDW]

LIONS LIONS LIONS!

That is all.

[Breadvan]

Somebody on Radio Five suggested that this game could last 4½ hours with the planned and unplanned water breaks.

Surely there's no credence in that statement.

Good job I've sky+ the highlights and not the whole programme then....

[robbo277]

On hot days at amateur level we often break for water around the 20 minute mark. The referee chooses an appropriate time in the game (break in play, not a penalty) and blows the whistle for a break. Then it's the same protocol as with an injury, every player stays on the pitch, coaches stay off it, and water is brought on. The whole thing lasts about 2 minutes and then the referee calls everyone back in.

It's not exactly a gamechanger.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Yes. I was envisaging about 2½-2¾(tops) hrs. Not 4½ hrs.

[jimmyinthewell68]

i wonder who be the water boys

[InjuredYetAgain]

aaaaagggghhhh. Typically Scottish. The day of the first Lions match and the sun is beating down. Mrs Injured and Injured Jnr want me to go out with them. Thank God for Sky +. It is going to take a pasting over the summer with all the various tours that are on

PS Come on the Lions (irrespective of nationality) - and a £5 bonus to anyone who can get that mouthful into a chant !!!

[BigTrevsbigmac]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

Absolutely ridiculous comment Maesteg. I take it from the time of posting that you were inebriated???

That one eye is looking very bleary!

[Guest]

These water breaks might be a blessing for people who are on the ale today though. Perfect times for a beer/toilet break.

[trebellbobaggins]

It was always going to be Welsh heavy.

Is 1/2p injured? Thought he would be nailed on to start, but am glad Hogg has been given a chance, rate him!

will that be the case all the way through?

Is there an issue of availability at this stage?

[The Great Aukster]

i wonder who be the water boys

Adam Sandler?

[Portnoy's Complaint]

i wonder who be the water boys

Adam Sandler?

Walians.

[thebluesmancometh]

theres something a bit pre pubescant about that photo

[ChequeredJersey]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

That's just offensive, based on nothing but your own preconceived prejudices, managing to combine xenophobia with generalisation and frankly merits an immediate withdrawal and apology


And more importantly it's plain false

[Scrumpy]

Guys can we just get over this hatred for a few weeks please!

[Cari]

Guys can we just get over this hatred for a few weeks please!

They're more than capable Victor...I wish they blydi would!

Anyyyyyywaaaay....I'm excited!

[maestegmafia]

True that. Plus English rugby is on Sky which not everyone wants/can afford

Every single English premiership game is freely available in full on the premiership website. Only go up after the game but it's usually within a few hours. Not sure if it'll continue next season

The point is none of you watch the pro12 or six nations or HEC matches not involving England or English teams so you know little about non English players, hense the your perspective on these threads being so naive.

That's just offensive, based on nothing but your own preconceived prejudices, managing to combine xenophobia with generalisation and frankly merits an immediate withdrawal and apology



And more importantly it's plain false

With all due respect CJ even as one of the english fans on this board that has an opinion i value what I wrote is not false.

How many pro 12 games did you watch this year? Do you even have a TV channel that cover pro 12?

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