Barbarians first up, what to do

I have been considering this for a while, and now seeing the teams it has really hit home.

My first thought was to stay relaxed, impliment the game plan they have started to learn, which I'm guessing is the kick chase game and structured attack dominating posession, squeeze the life out of the Baa Baa's and punish them with penalties and trys late on.

Then I got to thinking, the positives from this would be that a small number of players involved (non Welsh) would get some competitive gametime using Gatlands system, and all players involved would get a bit of gametime. This is all well and good, but I think the negatives outweigh the positives of this situation, analysis, risk of failure etc...

Maybe it would be better to set a marker? Go to town on the Baa Baa's, open them up and really punish them, give all involved a confidence boost, show the Aussies what we are capable of and start the tour on a positive note. Problem is this is risky, and we will conced tries

Therefore what do we all think is best, treating this game as a one off tour starter and really go for a big points margin, or slower structuered and less risky?

Players will know this is a big chance to get one over on their positional rivals by putting in a big performance. Set the marker and tell them... "beat that".

There are only 4 Lions in that side though so the occasion may get to the players... Its a big deal wearing that jersey for the first time by all accounts.

This baabaas side will be the one awkward side the Lions will face who will not be structured, will not be out there to play it tight... they will attack and their selections seem to have suggested thus.
Could be a very difficult night for the Lions... they should still win mind.

I agree, but put yourself in Gatlands shoes, do you start with the type of game your looking to employ for the tests? Or just go out and set a marker?

Gatland and co will want to build consistency from day one. Every player will be aware of the strategy and that will be set in stone for the fist three games or so. There will probably be several different tactical formations depending on the opposition and personnel seleted in each game.
None of these games can be treated as a one off as the management will be scrutinising who can best carry out their game plan consitently.

Blues - I don't think that Gats will have time to do anything other than to set a basic gameplan and see what happens when they try to execute it. The Lions won't have done any research in trying to counter their opposition - they will just be trying to get the basics right.

The whole thing will be a first run out of their set piece and to that extent, it's smart to play a team like the Barbarians first as they won't be up against a side with an established set piece game of their own. With the Welsh back row and midfield, there will be nothing to worry about in the loose. The focus will be absolutely in mashing the Ba-bas in the scrum and making sure that they keep all of their lineout ball which, with Gray and POC, they have no excuse for not doing.

Set a marker, put them to the sword, build some confidience, keep the Aussies guessing

Use Plan A and bash it down the middle.

If that doesn't work do Plan A again.

Rinse and repeat.

Cheers Gatts!

I think lineout will be the one tricky area for both sides.

The calls will all be new to each side. If anything the Baabaas may have an edge given they have experienced players and good backrow lineout options in Manoa and Parisse.

fa0019 wrote:I think lineout will be the one tricky area for both sides.

The calls will all be new to each side. If anything the Baabaas may have an edge given they have experienced players and good backrow lineout options in Manoa and Parisse.

And Jim Hamilton is 6'8" of master lineout poacher.

What I get from the responses so far he should definately play the pre determined gameplan he wants to adopt, but a simplistic version due to timing constraints but also set a marker...

I have no idea whats best, start setting the structure, and impliment parts of the eventual gameplan, or start with a bang!

We need to go in depth more, whichever way you say we should go say why, how and what the positives and negatives are

If anything England would have found it easier at the setpiece then the Lions will do. Didn't see the match but can I assume England dominated the set piece and that is where they won the game?

England will have been be more settled then the lions, a lot of the players were in the saxons squad right? They know the calls the ideas etc.

The set piece is where the Lions have struggled in the last 2 tours specifically, both the scrum and the lineout. Probably where all sides will target them.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Use Plan A and bash it down the middle.

If that doesn't work do Plan A again.

Rinse and repeat.

Cheers Gatts!

Certainly worked in the Six Nations - 30-03, justsayin

fa0019 wrote:If anything England would have found it easier at the setpiece then the Lions will do. Didn't see the match but can I assume England dominated the set piece and that is where they won the game?

England will have been be more settled then the lions, a lot of the players were in the saxons squad right? They know the calls the ideas etc.

The set piece is where the Lions have struggled in the last 2 tours specifically, both the scrum and the lineout. Probably where all sides will target them.

The set peice went immensely well V SA when the right personell were selected, when they weren't or went off injured the games were all but lost, maybe an insight into what Gatland will do come test time, play it safe and stick with the stronger players?

For all the Lions set peice weaknesses the baa baa's will have just as much if not more problems, so shouldn't be a worry IMO

munkian wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Use Plan A and bash it down the middle.

If that doesn't work do Plan A again.

Rinse and repeat.

Cheers Gatts!

Certainly worked in the Six Nations - 30-03, justsayin

Yeah it did. Won't work against the Aussies though as was shown a LOT last year.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

munkian wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Use Plan A and bash it down the middle.

If that doesn't work do Plan A again.

Rinse and repeat.

Cheers Gatts!

Certainly worked in the Six Nations - 30-03, justsayin

Yeah it did. Won't work against the Aussies though as was shown a LOT last year.

Cyzil the threads started pretty well mate, please don't keep trying to derail it into a WUMfest where you phish for reactions

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

munkian wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Use Plan A and bash it down the middle.

If that doesn't work do Plan A again.

Rinse and repeat.

Cheers Gatts!

Certainly worked in the Six Nations - 30-03, justsayin

Yeah it did. Won't work against the Aussies though as was shown a LOT last year.

Cyzil the threads started pretty well mate, please don't keep trying to derail it into a WUMfest where you phish for reactions

Don't be so sensitive. I'm just saying how I think Gatland will play it. Just because I don't agree with your pie-in-the-sky optimism it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I just don't see his tactics working and he's unlikely to change his style now.

So your opinion is that Gatland employs a purely bash it down the midle gameplan, followed by bashing it down the middle?

If it is I pity you pretty heavily, thats very unknowledgable way to describe any attacking structure pro rugby, and highlights you've simplified it in an attempt to mock and phish.

thebluesmancometh wrote:So your opinion is that Gatland employs a purely bash it down the midle gameplan, followed by bashing it down the middle?

Yes that pretty much describes it.

Am i right in thinking that this is the first time that Dan and Tips have started together?

andy powells minder wrote:Am i right in thinking that this is the first time that Dan and Tips have started together?

You may be spot on there, I can't think of any other games they've played on the same side....

Could be a very tasty combination

Hopefully, I think that Tips has got that ounce more pace then Sam, and if the Ozzies go with Hooper then we'll need all the oomph we've got. I hope Gatts does try and put a marker down in this match, definite confidence builder and bearing in mind that if his game plan is as simple as is perceived on here, then what we do show them this weekend wont be any surprise will it?

munkian wrote:

andy powells minder wrote:Am i right in thinking that this is the first time that Dan and Tips have started together?

You may be spot on there, I can't think of any other games they've played on the same side....

Could be a very tasty combination

Yes. They have t played together before. I am really looking forward to this combo. Toby Faletau has been in some great form too..

I am very concerned about Farrell, who in all honesty has done nothing to put himself in the position he's in. I have a bad feeling he will kick far too much as he does for Saracens and England. I hope he has learnt to play the game more since he has been with the Lions coaches.

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:

andy powells minder wrote:Am i right in thinking that this is the first time that Dan and Tips have started together?

You may be spot on there, I can't think of any other games they've played on the same side....

Could be a very tasty combination

Yes. They have t played together before. I am really looking forward to this combo. Toby Faletau has been in some great form too..

I am very concerned about Farrell, who in all honesty has done nothing to put himself in the position he's in. I have a bad feeling he will kick far too much as he does for Saracens and England. I hope he has learnt to play the game more since he has been with the Lions coaches.

Disagree, until the last 6N game he was head and shoulders above all as Sexton was out. He has had a few ropy games but his pack was mullered in each of them, they certainly won't be on saturday.

And with regards to his kicking, I am 100% sure he will kick when he is told to, and with Phillips inside him leading him (as he had to RP) he will be managed well. Also Roberts outside him will protect him too, if in doubt slip it to Roberts for a better platform next phase.

This issue is that he always has played aith a distributor at 15, Hogg may act as that distributor but if he doesn't it'll be interesting to see how Farell handles it. Farell is a victim of wanting to play post 6N whereas a lot of the Welsh boys cried off sick to avoid playing themselves out of favour and to leave the England game as a lasting impression.

If you think Farell shouldn't be there, then North, Davies and Stevens shouldn't be either! They all played poorly since the 6N

Well Gatts has been praising him since he's been with them.......plus of course if he does kick too much then I dont think Mikey Phil will be too reticent in telling him to stop. I'm hoping that all the experience that he will have around him will sink in and also support him. First half Farrell, second half Sexton certainly wouldnt surprise me, especially considering the conditions.

I dont think that the Lions should really be troubled too much by this match, I think that they are all consumate professionals and of course they have been together for a few weeks, so they sould certainly be up to speed with all the calls etc. I'd love to see the pack do a spot of mashing so that we can see what this set of backs can do

I've thought long and hard about this, and I've decided that the best thing for the Lions to do is win the match. I know that's going to upset the applecart, and I can see the argument for losing and for the strategic draw to keep the Wallabies guessing, but winning the game... I know it's the safe option, but that's just my preference when it comes to competitive sport.

It's a good question bluesman.

I think Gatland must treat the first half as if it were the first match against Australia. Go in with a structured game in mind. Look to dominate the set piece. Make big statements in the scrum. Get the lineout functioning well and nothing too adventurous on attack. Look to set up territory and tick the scoreboard over.

The worst thing they could do is mirror the Barbarians' all out attack approach. They must imagine they are the Wallabies trying to sucker them into opening the game up. Wear them down and look to dominate possession.

Then assess the situation at half time. If they are sufficiently ahead, clear the bench and alter the game plan. Be more adventurous and risk Halfpenny for example entering the line. If there's nothing much in it, do more of the same in the first half but look for better execution. Wear them down in the first 20 and in the last 20 look to open the game up.

I think it makes more of a statement if the Lions try at some stage to show what they really can do on attack. Not giving away backline moves but looking to do the basics at pace and use the offload as a weapon. The important thing is to lay the groundwork in the first half. Don't chance your arm too early. Do the basics well and get some cohesion.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:It's a good question bluesman.

I think Gatland must treat the first half as if it were the first match against Australia. Go in with a structured game in mind. Look to dominate the set piece. Make big statements in the scrum. Get the lineout functioning well and nothing too adventurous on attack. Look to set up territory and tick the scoreboard over.

The worst thing they could do is mirror the Barbarians' all out attack approach. They must imagine they are the Wallabies trying to sucker them into opening the game up. Wear them down and look to dominate possession.

Then assess the situation at half time. If they are sufficiently ahead, clear the bench and alter the game plan. Be more adventurous and risk Halfpenny for example entering the line. If there's nothing much in it, do more of the same in the first half but look for better execution. Wear them down in the first 20 and in the last 20 look to open the game up.

I think it makes more of a statement if the Lions try at some stage to show what they really can do on attack. Not giving away backline moves but looking to do the basics at pace and use the offload as a weapon. The important thing is to lay the groundwork in the first half. Don't chance your arm too early. Do the basics well and get some cohesion.

I had been considering similar, as in a structured plan for 30 minutes of the first half, then open up for 10, really look to put the hammer down in that period before half time. Then restart the 2nd half as they did the first, structured and methodical, then on the 60th minute or so really cut loose and see what we can do!

You have to consider as well the players you have at your disposal and how changes on the bench can encourage a certain style of play. I think a structured approach must take up the bulk of time as it's difficult to revert to a more settled approach once the game has opened up. It's like saying to riot police you can't throw the bottles or stones back once they've already thrown a hundred!