Liverpool Thread: Road to thinking we might get top 4, only to feel stupid at the end of the season

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

Transfer ins:
Kolo Toure (free transfer from Manchester City)

Transfers out:
Danny Wilson (free to Hearts)
Jamie Carragher (free to Sky)
Peter Gulacsi (free to Salzburg)

[Lumbering_Jack]

Going down too easily is a dive.

[Kenny]

Don't like to see players falling down to easily if it was against us i would not of been happy .

To say it would be a shame if Liverpool finished in the top 4 ,   doesn't deserve a response

[Guest]

Don't worry about Lumbering, he's clearly on a sabbatical from the boxing boards or he's been hounded out for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty.

There's an argument to say that the penalty turned the tide Liverpool's way but as it was only five minutes into the 2nd half, we'd also say that Stoke still had plenty of time to get back on level terms. Had we won 4-3 there'd be some justification for griping (for the record it was a soft penalty but nothing worse than we've had given against us over the years) but even without it, we'd have come out on top.

Going down too easily is a dive.

Having two swipes at player and hacking him down crudely is a red card but hey, you don't always get what you deserve...as Mr Pardew has discovered because I don't think a punch in the mouth would have been considered an over-reaction from Pelligrini

[lfc91]

Well what to make of yesterdays result. We were outplayed for large portions of the game. In my eyes a very dubious penalty to get us the draw. Overall it just wasnt what weve come to expect from us at home this year. Seems any time rodgers mentions a title challenge or top for in an interview the team bottles it! Think 2 wins in our remaining january fixtures is vital!

[Crimey]

Rodgers got it completely wrong really, was a bad idea to start with only two central midfielders. Gerrard doesn't have the legs, I also don't like him sitting in front of the back four, think that doesn't get the best out of Lucas or Gerrard.

I think Rodgers has got to be hard and drop Coutinho for Sturridge, Sterling has been in too good form to drop. Then you have Henderson left, Sterling right, Lucas and Gerrard as pivots, Suarez deeper as a number 10/false 9 then Sturridge up top. That was essentially what was played during our best form last year, although with Coutinho instead of Sterling.

Think Lucas and Gerrard work as a two, because Lucas does the hard work, nibbling at their attacking players and picking up the ball and gives the ball to Gerrard to dictate the play. Henderson can basically effect the game from anywhere, and Sterling could offer width. Suarez works best as a deep-lying forward with the freedom to roam and Sturridge as the proper number 9.

The defence looked so poor yesterday as well, Toure and Cissokho are not good enough, Johnson is in terrible form, Skrtel doesn't look as confident without Sakho or Agger beside him and even Mignolet has started looking a little shaky, most likely because of a lack of confidence in the defence ahead of him. I think Johnson should be dropped for a game or so in favour of Kelly and a new left back has got to be looked at, the sooner Enrique is back the better.

Glad Rodgers had the balls to make the change at half time as it changed the game, think there is a bigger deal being made of the penalty than there would have been had it been somebody other than Suarez, thought there was a contact, although slight and Guzan only has himself to blame for going down like that. The second half was much better and felt we were unlucky not to turn the game round completely. Villa played well, as they always seem to do against us.

Need a much better performance than that next week, hopefully Everton will struggle to deal with the attack because the defence cannot be relied on.

[lfc91]

Totally agree regarding cissokho and toure! Cissokho is very poor, but once enrique and flannagon are back we probably wont see much of him again.(well im hoping!). Thought gerrard was poor, lost the ball far to many times!

Anyone know when enrique is back btw!?

[Crimey]

When he was first out, the new year was mentioned so it must be soon.

[westisbest]

We could have been 4 up before you scored.

I knew if we conceded before half time we wouldn't win the game.

The penalty was a tough won.
Guzan shouldn't have come out in the first place.
IfI'm being critical, he should have pulled his hands away better.

We played really well against a good Liverpool team.

Anyway good luck rest of the season.
Surarez has been great to watch, his 4 goals against Norwich was it, were quality.

[Crimey]

Aston Villa have taken up the Wigan mantle of being unbelievably inconsistent, from looking like a team that could beat anybody to one that should be relegated. A matter of inexperience you feel, think the team will only get better as long as the best players are held onto. The worry is that you'll become a feeder club, struggling through a players' development, only to lose them when they become a complete player.

[Guest]

The best thing about Saturday was that with the owner present, he could see first hand that the team needs strengthening. dunno why there's such a fuss over the possible addition of the Basle winger when we have more pressing needs in midfield. Still, we survived a dreadful 45 mins and salvaged a point when we've played better this season and come away with nowt.

[lfc91]

Lucas out for 8 weeks, if we dont sign a central midfielder in this window we are in serious trouble!

[Guest]

Also reading that Salah talks have stalled...told you we should have gone for Mata. Still, hoping that the Gerrard who showed up in the first half against Villa was an imposter and hopefully the match against Bournemouth will give him an opportunity to iron out a few problems.
 
Still feel we need that midfield creativity though and it's to be hoped that Rodgers and his team can pull off a crafty signing in the next few days.

[nasisillmatic]

I've been saying for months we should sign a holding midfielder, hopefully this is the push we need to finally sign one.

[Guest]

Just hope we haven't left it too late. Am also hoping that a few more players start stepping up their game as a result of these injuries. Think Henderson has been superb and shown a real maturity. Sterling looks to be much improved and maturing too and I think a couple more need to follow their example

[Crimey]

Yeah, Henderson has quickly developed into my favourite player in the Liverpool side this year. Excellent work rate combined with obvious technical ability and a great attitude. Saw the potential there the last two years but unlocking the confidence has been key.

I am gutted by the Lucas injury, team looks so much better with him in it and Allen simply can't do half of what he can do. I hope injuries don't ruin Lucas. Think a new central midfielder is a must, even if it's a short term loan to cover Lucas' injury. Heard that we might go for a six month loan of Nigel De Jong which would be a decent move yo provide cover until the summer.

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

Also reading that Salah talks have stalled...told you we should have gone for Mata. Still, hoping that the Gerrard who showed up in the first half against Villa was an imposter and hopefully the match against Bournemouth will give him an opportunity to iron out a few problems.
 
Still feel we need that midfield creativity though and it's to be hoped that Rodgers and his team can pull off a crafty signing in the next few days.

Sort of contradicts this then

http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/21/mohamed-salah-nears-liverpool-transfer-after-alleged-apartment-rental-4271802/

Those apartments are not far away from my work. Nice view of the Mersey   

[theundisputedY2D2]

A defensively minded central midfielder who can dictate the tempo of a match is a must in this window in my opinion (if we can find one). We needed one even before Lucas was injured and now that he's out for up to 8 weeks we desperately need it. Steven Gerrard - as great a player as he is - is not the answer in that role.

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

With been linked with Fernando from Porto who is of a similar mould but more technical then Lucas apparently

[Guest]

Sadly I think we'll be linked with about a dozen players of varying qualities and ability over the new week and a bit. I just hope we don't end up panic buying (I hear Fellani is available for the princely sum of half a bag of crisps and some Asda Smart Price Midget Gems)

[lfc91]

I thought before the window opened we needed an AM(salah?) and a CDM, and i still maintain that. I genuinely believe rodgers will have plenty of targets scouted, looked at etc, and that its more about whether or not we have the money to spend!

If we got both those types of players i would be very confident with the rest of the season, especially with all the players still to come back from injury!

[Guest]

Thing is, as the window starts to close, clubs will start getting greedy and we could end up paying through the nose for a player who may be unable to do what he's been signed up for ...cough...Mata....cough

[nasisillmatic]

I think Nigel De Jong would be a great signing. I wanted us to go for him before he signed for Milan.

[lfc91]

I think Nigel De Jong would be a great signing. I wanted us to go for him before he signed for Milan.

I just want us to sign a CDM of known quality, someone who you know can come in and do the exact job you need them too. I think a loan move for de jong ticks those boxes. If we sign salah it would be fantastic. Young player with bags of ability/potential.

[mystiroakey]

What do you lot want a Gerrard replacement?

You should go for Barkely - put in a 50m.

You would then get in the top4

[Guest]

What do you lot want a Gerrard replacement?
You should go for Barkely - put in a 50m.

You would then get in the top4

Gonna have to happen sooner or later.
 
Problem Rodgers has is that he knows Gerrard can't fulfil his role as an attacking midfielder as well as he once did, Henderson isn't quite ready to step into Gerrard's boots although I'm keeping my fingers crossed but Brendan risking the wrath of everyone by benching his captain during a World Cup year. The defensive midfield role he's given Gerrard is having mixed results and Rodgers can't afford to risk losing that fourth spot at the expense of keeping his captain happy. Rodgers needs to find a player who can compliment Gerrard (as he will undoubtedly start if fit) but also one that that cover for any of the little mistakes that are starting to creep into Stevie's game.
 
After our impressive run in the league this year it would be a travesty if we missed out because we need to pander to a few players (look at what's happening with Utd and the alleged Rooney love-in that Moyes is currently conducting).
 

[Crimey]

Gerrard plays best these days in a deeper role, but with a more energetic midfielder beside him, Lucas is best for that role but a hustling and bustling defensive midfielder is what's best to play next to Gerrard so that player can pick up all the loose balls and win the ball in midfield and then allow Gerrard to dictate play. I don't buy those who say Gerrard is not capable of that, I've seen him do it and I don't understand why Rodgers is making it more complicated by trying to put Gerrard deeper in a position in which he is isolated.

[lfc91]

To be honest crimey i think of the 3 remaining CM, henderson is now best for that role. Gerrard makes to many mistakes and allen is a lightweight...and also crap! Henderson has great energy, but he offers us a lot going forward to which i wouldnt like to lose. The obvious solution though....BUY A NEW CDM!

[nasisillmatic]

I think if we got De Jong, Gerrard could play alongside him without having to worry about tracking back as much..

[Guest]

Almost feel guilty that we're criticising Stevie but the fact is that he's in a transitional phase of his career and he needs to know what he's going to be doing and adapt to it quickly

[lfc91]

I know how you feel dave. I was born in 1991, so pretty much every trophy ive seen us lift in my life time he has been responsible for! I still think he more than merits a starting spot, just not in that role. Like people have been saying he needs a CDM to play alongside him to free his role up a bit.

Not quite sure how the team will line up for everton either. Because even if we didnt bring in say, de jong and salah before then, i highly doubt rodgers would start either of them. Takes players a while to understand the role he needs them to play etc. Positive note is lucas has confirmed on twitter his injury is not as bad as first feared, should be back in a few weeks.

[Guest]

I was born in 71 and still have people calling me a glory hunter. Yeah, a bit like bragging that I kopped (geddit?) off with the fit girl at my school disco when I was 15.

As I said before, I think this weekend's FA Cup match will give Gerrard an opportunity to iron out a few flaws but playing Bournemouth isn't the same as playing teams challenging for the EPL title.

[Crimey]

I agree that Henderson is probably best for that role, but it'd be a shame to see his attacking qualities stunted by being dropped deeper. Allen is useless, he can't play any of the roles that the other central midfielders play, Henderson can play all of them.

I don't think it's a big of a conundrum as being made out by some of the papers, Gerrard had his position before he got injured and it was fine and he didn't struggle, he's been playing that same role for about 3-4 years now.

[lfc91]

At least you were alive during the glory days! On the brightside no one could ever accuse me of being a glory hunter...well at least not a very good one!

Think for everton i would go for henderson though, with gerrard along side.

[Guest]

I agree that Henderson is probably best for that role, but it'd be a shame to see his attacking qualities stunted by being dropped deeper. Allen is useless, he can't play any of the roles that the other central midfielders play, Henderson can play all of them.

I don't think it's a big of a conundrum as being made out by some of the papers, Gerrard had his position before he got injured and it was fine and he didn't struggle, he's been playing that same role for about 3-4 years now.

Rodgers is making out though that he's asking Gerrard to play in an even deeper role. In the first half against Villa he reminded me of a loose horse at the Grand National, scampering about and generally getting in the way

[lfc91]

So looks like the desire of the owners to spend as little as possible has resulted in us missing out on ANOTHER target! By the sounds of this we were unwilling to put up an extra 2 million.. If no-one is brought in this window there will be calls from many quarters to get FSG out of our club. I couldnt blame them either, whatever happened to that new stadium they promised....oh yes thats right they are redeveloping anfield, i assume work has already started on th... Actually Never mind.

[Crimey]

I don't understand why Rodgers is complicating things, if anything the role he's asking Gerrard to play when he moves him deeper requires even more stamina and pace. Play with the two pivots, two narrow wide men with two of Sterling, Coutinho and Henderson allowing the full backs to prove the width, Suarez between the lines with a free role, and Sturridge up top. That was what we were playing at our most successful so not sure why Rodgers wants to tinker with it.

lfc91, think that would be a very weird reaction, not heard any rumblings of people wanted them out. They're being frugal in the transfer market in general, but I'd rather that than they allowed the club to spend outside of their means or overspent on players. They were burnt when they gave Kenny a lot of money, but in general they have been quite good when it comes to transfers and the money spent. The only example I feel where it was ridiculous was the Dempsey transfer where they refused to give £1 million to snap him up, but if we had signed Dempsey we probably wouldn't have got one or both of Sturridge and Coutinho. If Salah is happy to warm the benches of Chelsea, not sure I'd have been happy with the signing to be honest.

As for the stadium, I think the redevelopment of Anfield seems like the better idea as it will likely cost less and allows the history to continue, it was successful when they did the same for Red Sox. Think it's fine to take their time, they're clearly not as poor as Hicks and Gillet. Same as regards to transfers, would rather they made sure it was financially viable before starting work. They're probably waiting/hoping for Champions League before getting started.

[Crimey]

Glen Johnson is out for an indefinite period.

Apparently he's been carrying an injury for a while and it just wouldn't go away and he broke down recently. A recurrence of the one that kept him out earlier in the season.

That explains his poor form you'd think, he's not been fully fit. It's a shame as it definitely puts his World Cup place in doubt, even if he's fit in time, he'll need an up turn of form to wrestle it from Kyle Walker and the likes of Nathaniel Clyne will be hoping to snatch his place on the bench from him as well.

Need Kelly to step up now and have a good run at right back, injury free. If Martin Skrtel or Kolo Toure is played there I might actually cry.

[lfc91]

The LFC website is the only place you have to look, already a large amount of fans who would like to see FSG gone.(although admittedly they are a rather extreme bunch!). My main gripe is that we just cant seem to compete, or are unwilling to compete, with other clubs for a player. Im all for a bit of reservation with transfers but chelsea have just highlighted once again how easy it is for clubs to beat us to a signiture...by simply bidding what the club ask for.

Let me describe a scenario here. We dont sign anyone this window (while united grab a few vital players they need). Then due to our extremely small squad and mounting injury concerns, which are largely due to no players getting a rest, we miss out on top 4, finishing 6th or 7th. How would you feel about our transfer policies then? When everyone can see that all we needed was a few new players in this month long window? I would be extremely annoyed! Bredan has proved that our first team is as good as pretty much any in the league, its our depth that is letting us down. Bredan will obviously be trying to address that, what manager wouldnt be, but in the end he can only offer what he is given permission to offer, so the blame cannot lie with him in terms of failed dealings. The blame must fall with FSG. And to top that all off, without top 4 there isnt a hope in hell of holding onto LS!

Im all for the redevelopment crimey, its just that its not happening! Years of waiting only makes us fall further behind the likes of arsenal and united, whos match day revenue blows ours out of the water! Until they actually start work on it it all just looks like empty promises..

[lfc91]

Explains a lot about his performances! Think a fully fit kelly is exactly what we need anyway, stronger defender than johnson and with our leaky defence that is just what we need!

[nasisillmatic]

I hope that's true about Johnsons' injury because I was beginning to worry about his future. Hopefully he can sort it out and return back to what we know he can produce.

I've heard 2 stories with regards to the Salah transfer:
1. He wanted to move to London
2. Ian Ayre was to blame for us not offering what they wanted

I don't know what's true, if any are.

I think most sensible fans back the owners and can understand what they're trying to do. They've made mistakes yes, but when it comes to backing the manager I don't think they've done much wrong.

[lfc91]

Also, in spite of certain views i have regarding FSG, it cannot be overlooked that we were in mountains of debt under hicks and gillette. In the regard they have been fantastic for the club.

[Guest]

I missed the early part of Alan Brazil on TalkSport but apparently Rodgers was on and has made mention of the Salah transfer saga. Sadly, Brazil only alluded to it as I was driving to work later. What did Rodgers say about it?

[Crimey]

He said he's still interested and hopes that we can still snatch him up. Said if it doesn't go through he'll still be looking for one or two transfers, but is quite happy to look into the youth teams for players.

I think it's a good thing for the club that they have a value for the player and stick to it, it'd be silly for the club to try and outbid Chelsea now, even if we get our man it could end up at a horribly high price because we know Chelsea can outbid us. Like I said, if Salah is happy to sit on the Chelsea bench I'm not I'd want him anyway, that shows a real lack of ambition and probably means he'll have his head turned if any big clubs came for him while at Liverpool.

I don't think we're desperate for transfers, I don't think Salah gets us top four, I think a few signings would be great but at the same time I'm not sure a barren window will be a disaster. As long as there aren't any really bad injuries, I think the team is good enough to compete, especially without European football and a lot of the big teams to come to Anfield which despite the Villa game has been something of a fortress this year.

Think you need to have a little more faith, no point disrupting the balance of the squad for signings sake or overpaying for players. If the club and hopefully Rodgers only rate him at an initial £8 million then they shouldn't spend more than that just because Chelsea are bidding for him as well. I'd hope that if Rodgers was desperate for the player then FSG would realise he's worth more.

[Guest]

Well Chelsea stole (for want of a better word) Willian from Spurs and it's probably a backhanded compliement from Mourinho that he sees us as enough of a rival to take a player away from us so close to the end of the transfer window.

[lfc91]

Its more the fact that we could have had the transfer sown up before chelski even came on the scene that bothers me! But il try to keep the faith.

[Guest]

I feel that, with the currently level of worldwide communications networks available, little or nothing is secret for very long. Spies in camp, walls have ears and all that stuff. If Chelsea or City wanted to gazump another team at any stage of the transfer window, they have the ability to do it. All's fair in love a nd premiership Football it seems.

Chelsea's purchase of Torres with about seven minutes left on the clock is a clear indicator of how the can and DO do business. Although to be fair, if LFC had that spending power and kept nicking quality players from under other teams' noses, I'd be a smug little so-and-so as well.

[Roller_Coaster]

I'll have to admit I don't like LFC (so sorry in advance for popping up, it's genuinely not wummery or trollification) but I think Fenway are a brilliant fit as owners and their modus operandi was sufficiently known in advance. Redevelop Anfield (replicating action they'd taken on Fenway Park of the Red Sox) always more likely than a new stadium. Policy on type of player (seems to be young-er players with existing ability AND potential to mould) and a price structure to pay (Salah is worth £10m to us, no more). Thus ensuring the club is run on a sustainable model. At least the bending over backwards to keep Suarez shows they are flexible enough in their model to recognise special exemptions are needed for top, top cases (which I doubt Salah is). Rodgers seems to be almost a perfect fit as manager in the mould of LFC traditions and to me you seem to be playing better and are a much better outfit than at any time in recent memory. I'd trust him to get it right more often than not. See his Sturridges over his Allens!

Again it's only my opinion but I would hope that only a miniscule proportion of fans might object to Fenway and hopefully none at all on the basis Salah chooses to hunt glory on the piggy back of the chelski squad and $$$ over likely game time at LFC. Yes you will need a deeper squad if/when you get in the CL but it needs to be full of players that want to be there, which it sounds like Salah doesn't.

That's my 2 pence worth and now I can go back to being a bloody QPR fan and watching you big boys have problems I only wish we could have. Oh and would you like to buy Shaun Wright Phillips? I say buy. You can have him. And Julio Cesar. Buy one you can get one free!

[lfc91]

Well put rollercoaster. I tend to agree with crimey on the stadium issue, better to redevelop anfield and maintain the history than shell out for a new stadium/new name etc. Just want to actually see some progress in the area though rather than endless talk.

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

To be fair to Salah it was Liverpool who f***ed up the deal. We agreed a fee then submitted a lower bid. Basel then refused to deal with us. If anything its the boards or Ayres fault.

[Guest]

I see the press are trying to create a rift with Rodgers and the owners/board by suggesting he's angry at their failure to secure Salah...something Rodgers refutes by the way. I wouldn't blame him for being unhappy but the alternative is for Liverpool to panic and sign an absolute donkey and who will be the one getting the stick? Rodgers.

It's perhaps a tad fanciful to believe we can go the rest of the season without an injury to a key player at a vital time and squad depth is crucial but as Rodgers is keen to stress, it has to be a quality player brought in. I'm torn between the frustration at what appears to be our rivals strengthening their squads and relief that we aren't just chucking money about for the fun of it.

Anyway, I was impressed with the team last night (barring Cissokho). Not just in attack but I was pleased to see Sturridge Suarez and Sterling (SSS - The Short Sharp Shock) putting in a shift in defence as well. Gerrard seemed to be rejuvinated after a bit of a blip (his goal celebration reminded me of Maradona's in 1990...just before he tested positive for cocaine...ahem!) and Henderson is again proving to be one of our most improved players along with Sterling and Flanagan.

A lot better defensively but again that may be down to the support from our front players. Going forward we looked like scoring almost every time and strange as it may seem I think an early 4th goal stifled our play as we didn't seem that fussed about really twisting the knife. At least we rested on our laurels with a four goal lead this time as opposed to a one goal lead like we did away to Swansea.

Overall it was a great night and let's hope we can get a good result at WBA and more importantly without losing any key players.

Come on the Red Men!

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