Champions Trophy - England and Wales 2013

First topic message reminder :

We have had a few prediction/ speculation type threads but this will be the discussion thread for matches in the Champions Trophy which starts this morning.

The first game is India v South Africa at the Swalec Stadium, Cardiff.

Sounds like an amazing atmosphere at the Oval. Not really my idea of how I'd like to watch live cricket these days but great from the comfort of my sofa.

Brain freeze from Gayle and a good ball to get Sarwan early, and Pakistan are right back in this now.

ajmal's tied pollard in knots..

Riaz's pace has been impressive....every ball over 90mph

143/7. In the balance.

Windies sneak home by a mere two wickets.

I was away for a couple of days and missed the first couple of games, though I could just manage a few overs at the end in the last game, a very interesting one that.
As for the first game, fine performance from the Indian batsmen led by Shikhar Dhawan, South Africa's bowling struggled, but the Indians managed to make good use of that and put together a good total and then the bowlers managed to do a decent job.
Rohit Sharma scored a 50 at the top and that doesn't surprise me much, although its the 2nd good game for him of the last 3 ODIs he played. Another good game in the next match, I'll think about hoping to hope that he has finally cracked international cricket.
Michael Clarke out for today in the Australia-England game. England do have a decision to make regarding that number 7 position. Will it be Tim Bresnan who is a good choice 4th seamer withdecent batting abilities? Or will it be Ravi Bopara who on paper is a better bat and who can also fill in the 5th bowler duties along side Joe Root?

Well the Indians showed the way off how to win a game of Cricket. Score big first innings and that takes the world of pressure of the bowlers..

When the opposing team gets behind the rate the slope gets steeper..

It will be interesting to see if they could chase that sort of total down!! It is a different proposition- even though they have the world of talent in the batting department. And how good is this Indian bowling attack? Bowling first may show us a different side!

India have become favs..

Aus and England are now joint second favs.. I would however have England slightly above due to being at home..

England have dropped Finn, which strikes me as a bit strange, and are playing Bopara, which I'm not convinced about.

However this Australian line-up, with the notable exceptions of Watson with the bat and Starc with the ball, looks really fairly average.

England must be strong favourites.

Crazy selection from England in my view - dropping Finn but playing Bresnan and Bopara.

The Bopara pick can be kind of justified (with only 6 batsmen it becomes very difficult if we lose wickets) but I can't see much logic to playing Bresnan over Finn.

As I said on the other thread I can understand picking Bopara for the extra batting, but dropping Finn?! Complete and utter #headsgone from the selectors.

Swann isn't playing? Why?

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:Swann isn't playing? Why?

Swann's got a back injury apparently,
Quite a fast start so far, lets see/hope one of these two gets in and makes a ton

Concerns over Swann's back apparently.

Decent start from England on what looks like a good pitch, with a few moments of good fortune. Starc struggled to find his rhythm. Bell looking to be positive.

Mitchell Johnson looks to be back in a good rhythm, touching 90mph!

Morning all.

This looks tasty, I don't know much about the Aussie team now I must admit.

The aussie on commentary just said Aussie have six genuine pace bowlers in their 11!

That's massive and must include genuine all rounders.

That surely gives them a massive advantage here?

Oh and now Swann against a classy young Aussie side. Oh dear. Probably 80:20 in favour of Aussie then.

Oh and no Finn.. Oh for gods ask are we run by brain deads? Aussie must be laughing their ass off. Ok 100% Aussie have this.

Take it to the house wrote:Mitchell Johnson looks to be back in a good rhythm, touching 90mph!

If he gets back in the ashes team he could be dangerous, or they could get in his head again and he spray it all over the place. But when he is good he is great.

I don't think it is Trebs honestly. I can't believe they're not playing a spinner, considering how badly we usually deal with spin

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:I don't think it is Trebs honestly. I can't believe they're not playing a spinner, considering how badly we usually deal with spin

Fair point, if we have tredders he's not a bad choice if Swann is injured,

Are they really six world class seamers? Johnson and starc are for sure.


I don't agree with roakey about us being anywhere near the favourites. Many teams in front inc Aussie now we've dropped Finn.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Take it to the house wrote:Mitchell Johnson looks to be back in a good rhythm, touching 90mph!

If he gets back in the ashes team he could be dangerous, or they could get in his head again and he spray it all over the place. But when he is good he is great.

He looks like he's changed his action quite a bit, much less "slingy", bit more controlled.
I don't think it's that much of an advantage having more pacers on this pitch, looks a great one to bat on, ball coming on nicely.
Lol, just as I say that Cook gets out

I can't believe we've dropped Finn. Love to know the "tactical" reason behind dropping your highest ranked ODI bowler!

Cook gone for 30 odd again. Need Bell/Trott to go on and make the big score

Watson gets Cook. England 57-1.

Good start for England...54 off the first ten, will take that.

Cook gone now though , Watson gets the break. Look to be a lot of runs in this pitch for someone ...

Wickets gone already. We can't get a good start.

A low score with that poor bowling line up will have Aussie licking their lips and winning this with ease.

Used to be a defender of Ashley Gyles during his playing days.
But as a coach, he has been anything but international standards. Most of the times he acts like an idiot and favoritism won't be a very wild charge either. Finn dropped? What's wrong with you clown?

Correct msp. Pathetic. Economy and control count for nothing. Idiot indeed. And now we have at least ten overs the Aussies can milk, twenty if they pressure Bresnan.

When Giles was playing, his batting at 8 was quite useful for England in all formats he played in. But he was picked because he was the best available spin option at that point. When he was picked for his batting over a better spinner, it formed part of one of the heaviest low-point in English cricket history, the whitewash of 06-7.
Bresnan over Finn is absolutely idiotic. Bresnan could have made the side alright, as the 4th seamer who could provide a decent batting option at 7, but not at the expense of a better bowler. Feeling really sick at this stupidity.

I like Bailey's captaincy here. He got Starc off very smartly when he started poorly , and has now brought him back to have another go after the breakthrough.
Lacking a serious spin option , he will have to shuffle his bowlers around creatively ...not much there for the bowlers , and the last ten overs could be very dangerous if England can keep wickets in hand.

So Alfie.. Are all six of Aussies pace bowlers genuinly briiliant?

How would you rate them?

trebellbobaggins wrote:So Alfie.. Are all six of Aussies pace bowlers genuinly briiliant?

How would you rate them?

Well you can see them , trebs...no McGrath among them that is for sure.

Johnson is ...variable ? McKay has done well in ODIs , Starc is very promising , though he is having a poor day so far today. Watson gets useful wickets , Faulkner I haven't seen much...

None of them likely to tear down trees , but they are a decent group. Think they will miss the spin option later on though.

So some of the comments I've read suggesting we are getting an ashes bettering from an attack as good as anything Aussie have had before might be a little hopeful?

Those were bbc comment threads comments though.

Sounds like we are getting good and talented and dangerous. Maybe pretty much the same as ours or better?

I am not so concerned about Finn's absence as some. It did surprise me - I thought he would play rather than Bresnan - but Bresnan bowled better the other day , and one should remember Finn is coming off a niggling injury. They are being careful , I suspect , not to overwork him at the start of a busy programme.
I originally wanted five bowlers , but have come round to accepting Bopara , mainly because he allows Butler to be held back if necessary until the right moment ; and he has once again demonstrated that his bowling is somewhat underrated in this format.
Yes it could go wrong , but so could any plan. Will wait to see how it works before throwing turnips...

If Finn might be injured then it does make more sense Alfie.

Weakens us though both him and swannage missing,

The Test attack is better , in my opinion , trebs. Better than the ODI one , I mean ; I think England has a stronger one : more experience , and much better spin with Swann.
Pattinson I rate quite highly , and Siddle has a big heart and has improved since he last came to England. But a lot depends on how well the new boys adapt to English conditions.

We got the wrong pattinson hey.

Sounds like it will be a close ashes series and they will probably win the return then with this new pack of bowlers.

I've rad too many people expecting an easy ashes win,, naive to say the least.

What happened to that Cummins fella? He seemed the best of the bunch

Fifty for Bell

Off 70 balls ...OK , decent start. Nasser rattling on about the run rate being too slow...didn't he learn anything from Wednesday ? It is all about the last ten-fifteen overs...

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:What happened to that Cummins fella? He seemed the best of the bunch

Has been injured , Olly. Has been injured a lot.

He is back playing now but they are taking it slowly this time...sensibly. He looks like a real talent but has never yet managed to play a first class match without getting injured !

Well taking the double the 30 over score idea, were going to have far too low a score.

Good bowling from Aussie.

alfie wrote:

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:What happened to that Cummins fella? He seemed the best of the bunch

Has been injured , Olly. Has been injured a lot.

He is back playing now but they are taking it slowly this time...sensibly. He looks like a real talent but has never yet managed to play a first class match without getting injured !

Some players are cursed and just never get the career they deserved because of it.

Onions, jones and even Tremlett have all suffered the curse for us.

...OK slight exaggeration...but he got injured after the Shield final , when he bowled a lot of overs , and also after his (one) Test match...and he has only played a couple of other matches.
I think he may be brought back through the limited over caper at first.

Four and a half per over seems a bit slow ...but consider : with wickets in hand 180 at the forty over mark can easily become 280 plus.

England are playing to a plan. It is a plan which suits the make up of their team.
It won't always work , but it is pointless to adopt a method which is totally alien to the players they have...

I expect them to up the rate gradually in any case...Trott doesn't change gears , but he can become somewhat more fluent as he goes on.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Well taking the double the 30 over score idea, were going to have far too low a score.

Good bowling from Aussie.

With the likes of Warner, Hughes and Johnson in their team, 400 isn't enough Trebs

I'd consider taking the batting powerplay soon with these two in now

I'm not taking the batting powerplay with Trott there.

Yeah - I'm not sure it'd make much difference to the scoring rate.

Rate is about 4.5 an over at the moment (123 off 28).

At this rate we'll finish on around 220-250 which I don't think will be enough.

Hopefully Cook will send an instruction for Trott and Bell to take some risks, then take the powerplay when our big hitters are in.

Fair play to Bell though, he's looked pretty good out there, if maybe not as quick as we'd like.

England will pick it up towards the end of the innings when they have wickets in hand. Its their gameplan.

Morgan, Bopara and Buttler all have it in their locker to pick up the run rate.

England always take the power play at the wrong time

I am assuming they pretty well ignore it in their calculations now. The new laws mandate it before forty anyway...let it come when it does...

These two just starting to up it now

Double the 30 over score now gives 282...

Not so awful. Would like a few more though.

Still a lot depends on the power hitters , but we knew that , realistically, from the off.

Thats always been Englands way though. Trott Bell and Cook keep England ticking in the middle overs. Power players come in and do the damage in the last 15.