Lions vs NSW-Q Country XV - Discussion Thread

[LondonTiger]

First topic message reminder :

So after the first real test for the Lions, the shebang moves on to Newcastle for what should be another opposed training session. Who can we expect to see playing? Well after featuring prominently in all 3 matches we should see MakoV getting a well earned rest and Corbs and Grant getting 40 minutes each. In the back row Tipuric will be hoping to get some game time having barely featured since the HK fixture. Maitland is an almost certainty on one wing but we may see a surprise on the other with Manu possibly being given a run-out in a 3rd position (assuming he recovers from his stinger) as I expect North to be selected for next weekends match. Sexton should be starting, and we can expect to see the coaches taking a look at how he goes with Mike Phillips.

Predicted Line-up:

Corbs
Hibbard
Jones
POC
AWJ
SOB
Tipuric
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
Maitland
Roberts
BOD
Manu
1/2p

Grant, Cole, Best, Evans, Croft, Murray, Farrell, Hogg

Actual Lineup (more left field than I had expected):

15. Maitland
14. Cuthbert
13.BOD
12. Roberts
11. North
10. Hogg
9. Murray

1. Corbisiero
2. Hibbard
3. Cole
4. Gray
5. Evans
6. O'Brien
7. Tipuric
8. Heaslip

Bench

Best, Grant, Stevens, AW Jones, Faletau, Phillips, Davies, Halfpenny

[Ozzy3213]

To be honest I thin I'd have looked confident and comfortable at flyhalf against that opposition maes.

[maestegmafia]

To be honest I thin I'd have looked confident and comfortable at flyhalf against that opposition maes.

Well we have to look at the positives..!

Thought of dusting you boots off and giving it a try?

[maestegmafia]

Well its a Wilkinson or Jones question... and the knives were out immediately after it didn't pay off.

Should have gone with Jones in 05... should go Tipuric in 13.

no one has said they won't...!

[fa0019]

depends on Saturdays performance? Will he still look say half a pace off his usual game (last weekend was his first game in 7 weeks so understandable).

Perhaps he needs more time.... 1st test bring him on at 55mins, 2nd test if played well start him.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

He could have a stormer on Saturday. For me, he'll need a stormer on Saturday.

[George Carlin]

There is talk of Kearney being fine to play this weekend.

Interesting on OSN1 commentary, Guscott saying that unless Warbuton plays a full 80 against the Tahs this weekend it's going to be practically impossible for Gatland to justify him starting the test.

[fa0019]

He could have a stormer on Saturday. For me, he'll need a stormer on Saturday.

If only we had some Stormers in our side... Burger, Etzebeth, Vermeleun, Habana!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

If you mean Schalk Burger, you probably shouldn't mention him on a Lions thread.

[robbo277]

I could only follow the game online, but my thoughts for the Waratahs and the first test are:

23 for the Warahtahs:
Mako, Youngs, Jones, O'Connell, Parling, Croft, Warburton (C), Faletau
Phillips, Sexton, Zebo, Roberts, Tuilagi, Halfpenny, Kearney.
Hibbard, Corbisiero, Cole, Wyn-Jones, Lydiate, Youngs, Hogg, Davies

The line-out has been an issue for us, so we introduce 2 fantastic line-out forwards in Parling and Croft, and have their clubmate (who has been the most assured throwing hooker on tour) throw in to them. O'Connell is no mug in this area either. If this works well then I think this becomes the first choice tight 5 for the first test. If not, their immediate back-ups are on the bench and Gatland can look to tweak it as necessary.

Right now my test back row would be O'Brien, Tipuric and Heaslip. This isn't a 100% far comparison as they have had more minutes then their rivals, but this would be a last chance for Croft, Warburton, Faletau and Lydiate when he came on to stake their claims for a test spot, as we'll want to rest our test starters ahead of the Brumbies match.

I've gone for a straight shoot-out in the centres between Roberts and Tuilagi, and I'd have another look at both of them. As Roberts played today, I'd look to bring Davies on for him and move Tuilagi to 12, as O'Driscoll has pretty much sewn up the 13 shirt. I've put the first choice half-backs inside them so they can have a run together and give these guys the kind of service they require to show what they can do.

With Bowe out, Halfpenny starting the first test on the wing becomes a real option, because I'm unconvinced by Maitland and Cuthbert (how did they go today?) It's something I'd want to trial, so he joins the back three with Zebo and Kearney who will be getting their first run-outs of the tour.

Youngs is on the bench as I'd look to have him in that role for the first test. Have him coming on and looking to up the pace against a tiring team. Hogg gets the final bench spot to hopefully continue the experiment looking at him as an option at 10. If you think the 3 of Roberts, O'Driscoll and Tuilagi will take the 12 and 13 shirts and 1 bench spot between them in the first test, having Hogg at 15 covering 10 with back three cover on the bench or Hogg on the bench covering 10 and back three could offer us that little bit more versatility.

The team against the Brumbies would then probably have a real midweek dirt-tracker look about it, but with strong performances here players can play their way into contention for the latter tests. Grant, Best and Stevens would start in the front row, with Young and Farrell starting at half-backs as both have been short of gametime recently. Zebo and Kearney would probably continue in the back three to get up to speed, with the rest of the spots being filled by those who aren't required in the first test.

So for me the keys to discover on Saturday are:
Trial out the first choice tight 5 against the Waratahs
Keep rotating the back row to try and find the best combination
Roberts or Tuilagi?
Can Halfpenny switch to the wing and remain effective?
Can Hogg cover 10 in a bigger match?

[bsando]

I got the scoreline bang on, I'm absolutely delighted with that, thanks to Hogg and Halfpenny missing a few conversions.

A decent performance, thought Tipuric was good, and I would have him in the test team (then again I always would have), BOD looked good in defence, decent in attack marvellous chip through at the end for Davies' try. Maitland looked pretty great in space, I'm an advocate for him on the wing as I don't tryust Cuthbert in defence, or in the kicking game, he played on the wing in the second half and showed us something, deft hands at times, probably the most impressive back. The forwards can be hard to judge as the quality of the opposition isn't grea,t you expect them to dominate and they did, lineout was decent bar one or two poor ones (miscommunication at the end of the first half me thinks).

Plenty of positives, but some rubbish handling errors I believe we had about 10 knockons which isn't up to scratch, but decent all in all.

Very well summed up Thomond. I've been watching all the games/chat on Sky sports. None of the pundits are talking about Cuthbert's defensive boo boo's at all. He made none today vs a weak side. But against the better competition so far, he has looked weak in D at times. Potentially could be an area for Wallabies to target and I hope they do. If Maitland starts at 14, I will be worried. He showed today the skill and pace he has in open space and the non selfishness of his attitude to the game, with some lovely passes and offloads. Like Bowe, he just has the brain for rugby where as I feel North and Cuthbert are just a little bit too one dimensional at times. North has had a lot of offloading opportunities last few games but he seems to rarely take them, opting to go himself. Maitland is always looking to pass, continue the phases of play. I personally think it makes no sense to play both North and Cuthbert in the first test, yet no doubt this will probably happen. The wallabies are going to be asking a lot of questions of the lions defence and i feel the lions need a decent footballer in their back three. Zebo, Maitland or Hogg I'd say. Power alone will not be enough.

[Thomond]

Are you an Oz fan Sando? I hope so because otherwise, I'm a bit lost with what you are saying!

[George Carlin]

Yes, Bsando has affiliations with Glasgow, Wales and the Wallabies - the Wallabies winning out.

But he's a Glasgow fan. So we forgive him.

[BlueNote]

"North has had a lot of offloading opportunities last few games but he seems to rarely take them, opting to go himself"

Can't agree with that, to me he's been better on this tour at taking the right option and moving the ball on if that's the best. See for example his first try today, or BOD's in the Western Farce game.

[funnyExiledScot]

North is a certainty surely, as is Halfpenny at 15 I feel. I do think there's a question mark over Cuthbert versus Maitland on the right wing, but I think Gatland will go with Cuthbert. He's on good scoring form at the moment.

I think Hogg has an outside shot at making the bench. The question for me is whether Gatland will want Farrell there as specialist cover at 10. It's possible the bench will be Ben Youngs, Manu Tuilagi and Stuart Hogg, if Gatland is thinking purely about impact rather than injury cover, baring in mind he'll likely have two quality goal kickers in Sexton and Halfpenny already starting.

[GunsGerms]

There is talk of Kearney being fine to play this weekend.

Interesting on OSN1 commentary, Guscott saying that unless Warbuton plays a full 80 against the Tahs this weekend it's going to be practically impossible for Gatland to justify him starting the test.

Listened to kearney being interviewed this morning and interestingly he said he was very lucky to tour and the only reason he wasnt left behind was because he didnt get a scan after the Rabo final. His injury was first properly scanned when they got to Hong Kong and even at that point the scan didnt reveal the extent of the tear.

[George Carlin]

North is a certainty surely, as is Halfpenny at 15 I feel. I do think there's a question mark over Cuthbert versus Maitland on the right wing, but I think Gatland will go with Cuthbert. He's on good scoring form at the moment.

I think Hogg has an outside shot at making the bench. The question for me is whether Gatland will want Farrell there as specialist cover at 10. It's possible the bench will be Ben Youngs, Manu Tuilagi and Stuart Hogg, if Gatland is thinking purely about impact rather than injury cover, baring in mind he'll likely have two quality goal kickers in Sexton and Halfpenny already starting.

I also think that he'll go for Cuthbert but by the same token I think that would be a mistake. Maitland is a better link player but most crucially of all, as shown during the 6N, Maitland is one of the best defensive wings in the NH and we'll need that to combat the Honeybadger/Ioane/O'Connor/Beale.

I'm going to leave now whilst I still have my testicles because I postulated something similar on another thread and a Welsh poster whom I shall not name became white hot with apoplectic rage that I'd dared to suggest such a thing.

[jimmyinthewell68]

i think who ever plays next Tuesday unless on bench won't be in the test team.

[GunsGerms]

North is a certainty surely, as is Halfpenny at 15 I feel. I do think there's a question mark over Cuthbert versus Maitland on the right wing, but I think Gatland will go with Cuthbert. He's on good scoring form at the moment.

I think Hogg has an outside shot at making the bench. The question for me is whether Gatland will want Farrell there as specialist cover at 10. It's possible the bench will be Ben Youngs, Manu Tuilagi and Stuart Hogg, if Gatland is thinking purely about impact rather than injury cover, baring in mind he'll likely have two quality goal kickers in Sexton and Halfpenny already starting.

I must say neither Maitland nor Cuthbert have been very convincing so far. Zebo may well sneak in if he has a stormer v the 'Tahs.

[ChequeredJersey]

The real problem I have with the whole fly-half thing is that if the worst happens and we lose a 10 or even two 2 just before or during the Test Series, flying someone in is an issue as they will have minimal time to a) get over the flight/jet lag and up to match level b) gel with the team. Hogg has had a game at 10, but against poor at best position in what seemed like no pressure. If he has to fill in come test time, he will be under pressure and he will be facing a real 10. JOC may not have had a lot of time there for the Wallabies, but he has played plenty of 10 at S15 level. Cooper can easily be drafted in even now if needed as he has played with these players before and is in Australia not the UK. Beale is an INT standard 10, Barnes is too. I hope that Sexton and Farrell stay fit and if they do all is fine but if one gets hurt we are in trouble

[George Carlin]

The real problem I have with the whole fly-half thing is that if the worst happens and we lose a 10 or even two 2 just before or during the Test Series, flying someone in is an issue as they will have minimal time to a) get over the flight/jet lag and up to match level b) gel with the team. Hogg has had a game at 10, but against poor at best position in what seemed like no pressure. If he has to fill in come test time, he will be under pressure and he will be facing a real 10. JOC may not have had a lot of time there for the Wallabies, but he has played plenty of 10 at S15 level. Cooper can easily be drafted in even now if needed as he has played with these players before and is in Australia not the UK. Beale is an INT standard 10, Barnes is too. I hope that Sexton and Farrell stay fit and if they do all is fine but if one gets hurt we are in trouble

Totally correct, but that's been the case since the start of the tour, Chequered. Gatland's managerial genuis, you see. Would rather that someone like Madigan had travelled instead of Kearny but by the same token, I would like to be in a lingerie commercial with Candice Swanepoel and I suspect that this may also not happen simply because I would like it to be so.

[RDW]

I didn't see the game but sounds like Maitland showed a whole heap of skills today, whereas Cuthbert has only showed up well scoring tries (I say only...!)

Personally I'd be happy with either but it will come down to whether he prefers a pure finisher or a more all-round player.

I'd go with Maitland - don't fancy Cuthbert's defence against the flying Aussie wingers - he likes to rush up in defence too, leaving his wing open.

[funnyExiledScot]

North is a certainty surely, as is Halfpenny at 15 I feel. I do think there's a question mark over Cuthbert versus Maitland on the right wing, but I think Gatland will go with Cuthbert. He's on good scoring form at the moment.

I think Hogg has an outside shot at making the bench. The question for me is whether Gatland will want Farrell there as specialist cover at 10. It's possible the bench will be Ben Youngs, Manu Tuilagi and Stuart Hogg, if Gatland is thinking purely about impact rather than injury cover, baring in mind he'll likely have two quality goal kickers in Sexton and Halfpenny already starting.

I must say neither Maitland nor Cuthbert have been very convincing so far. Zebo may well sneak in if he has a stormer v the 'Tahs.

Hmmm, I can't see it personally. I'm not sure you can force your way into the 1st Test based on one game. It's not as is North, Cuthbert and Maitland have played badly.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Cuthbert was missing in action in defence against the Reds. You can bet Robbie Deans will have noticed that.

[BlueNote]

Cuthbert was good today, not just in scoring. However, that doesn't really make up for the problems against the Reds.

[GunsGerms]

North is a certainty surely, as is Halfpenny at 15 I feel. I do think there's a question mark over Cuthbert versus Maitland on the right wing, but I think Gatland will go with Cuthbert. He's on good scoring form at the moment.

I think Hogg has an outside shot at making the bench. The question for me is whether Gatland will want Farrell there as specialist cover at 10. It's possible the bench will be Ben Youngs, Manu Tuilagi and Stuart Hogg, if Gatland is thinking purely about impact rather than injury cover, baring in mind he'll likely have two quality goal kickers in Sexton and Halfpenny already starting.

I must say neither Maitland nor Cuthbert have been very convincing so far. Zebo may well sneak in if he has a stormer v the 'Tahs.

Hmmm, I can't see it personally. I'm not sure you can force your way into the 1st Test based on one game. It's not as is North, Cuthbert and Maitland have played badly.

North has been excellent and is a sure starter. Maitland and Cuthbert have been poor and therefore IMO there is one wing position still up for grabs.

[George Carlin]

I didn't see the game but sounds like Maitland showed a whole heap of skills today, whereas Cuthbert has only showed up well scoring tries (I say only...!)

The offical match stats show it in more detail, RDW:
http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169131

Maitland topped the 'meters gained' (by miles), 'try assists' and 'defenders beaten' counts.
Nobody apart from Sean O'Brien made more carries and nobody apart from the halfbacks made more passes.

One charged down kick, to be sure, but that's a complete performance by anyone's standards and more importantly by the standards of his peers.

Edit: Guns - with reference to the above, how can you say that Maitland was "poor"? In the context of what, in particular?

[RDW]

North has been excellent and is a sure starter. Maitland and Cuthbert have been poor and therefore IMO there is one wing position still up for grabs.

Against the Ba Bas he had a quiet - but not poor - game and sounds like today he had a stormer, how can that be classed as poor?

Similar for Cuthbert - he has scored a bucketload of tries but has been suspect defensively - still wouldn't' class that as poor!

[GunsGerms]

I didn't see the game but sounds like Maitland showed a whole heap of skills today, whereas Cuthbert has only showed up well scoring tries (I say only...!)

The offical match stats show it in more detail, RDW:
http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169131

Maitland topped the 'meters gained' (by miles), 'try assists' and 'defenders beaten' counts.
Nobody apart from Sean O'Brien made more carries and nobody apart from the halfbacks made more passes.

One charged down kick, to be sure, but that's a complete performance by anyone's standards and more importantly by the standards of his peers.

Edit: Guns - with reference to the above, how can you say that Maitland was "poor"? In the context of what, in particular?

I didnt see the game today. Against the BaBas he was up there with Lydiate as one of the Lions worst players. He looked fairly out of his depth.

Glad to hear he played well. Did he play well enough to nail on a test spot? Just a note on the stats, I dont trust the figures on the Lions website as I have noticed a number of obvious errors so Im not sure how accurate they are.

[GunsGerms]

North has been excellent and is a sure starter. Maitland and Cuthbert have been poor and therefore IMO there is one wing position still up for grabs.

Against the Ba Bas he had a quiet - but not poor - game and sounds like today he had a stormer, how can that be classed as poor?

Similar for Cuthbert - he has scored a bucketload of tries but has been suspect defensively - still wouldn't' class that as poor!

Cuthbert has scored a load of tries but he has been given more game time than any other winger and has still manager to look quite sluggish and off pace in most games.

I do rate him as a player but he appears not to be match fit.

[RDW]

Fair enough Guns - I didn't see the game either but sounds like Maitland was a real standout player - that's what people on here and all the pundits have been saying anyway.

I rate Cuthbert highly but just not sure about his defence.

[George Carlin]

I didn't see the game but sounds like Maitland showed a whole heap of skills today, whereas Cuthbert has only showed up well scoring tries (I say only...!)

The offical match stats show it in more detail, RDW:
http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169131

Maitland topped the 'meters gained' (by miles), 'try assists' and 'defenders beaten' counts.
Nobody apart from Sean O'Brien made more carries and nobody apart from the halfbacks made more passes.

One charged down kick, to be sure, but that's a complete performance by anyone's standards and more importantly by the standards of his peers.

Edit: Guns - with reference to the above, how can you say that Maitland was "poor"? In the context of what, in particular?

I didnt see the game today. Against the BaBas he was up there with Lydiate as one of the Lions worst players. He looked fairly out of his depth.

Glad to hear he played well. Did he play well enough to nail on a test spot? Just a note on the stats, I dont trust the figures on the Lions website as I have noticed a number of obvious errors so Im not sure how accurate they are.

That's a fair comment - I have reservations about the ones used by Optima for the BBC who had Geoff Parling with 4 lineout steals against the Reds, whereas in actual fact he had 2 and Gray had 3 (confirmed by StatBunker.com, which seems to be the most reliable source).

[SecretFly]

I didnt see the game today. Against the BaBas he was up there with Lydiate as one of the Lions worst players. He looked fairly out of his depth.

Glad to hear he played well. Did he play well enough to nail on a test spot? Just a note on the stats, I dont trust the figures on the Lions website as I have noticed a number of obvious errors so Im not sure how accurate they are.

Guns, it was a blow out game to keep some players lubricated. If you had seen the game (and you can guess at how it went with the scoreline even with so much knock-on blunders by Lions players) you'd realise it wasn't one for judging any test spot nail ons.

If the Lions had just been at a different intensity level (concentrating fully) and not making the foolish errors, they could have scored another three or four tires easily. You can only play what is in front of you of course but so too do you wipe that game from the true decisions on test spots.

[GunsGerms]

Fair enough Guns - I didn't see the game either but sounds like Maitland was a real standout player - that's what people on here and all the pundits have been saying anyway.

I rate Cuthbert highly but just not sure about his defence.

I only read one report and they said O'Brien and Drico were the standouts. All it said of Maitland was he played well and showed enough to get a bench spot though he did feature on their stats for offloads etc.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-union-match-centre/live-combined-country-v-lions-20130610-2o0ld.html?reload=true

If Bowe is any way fit to play I have no doubt he will start.

[GunsGerms]

Guns, it was a blow out game to keep some players lubricated. If you had seen the game (and you can guess at how it went with the scoreline even with so much knock-on blunders by Lions players) you'd realise it wasn't one for judging any test spot nail ons.

If the Lions had just been at a different intensity level (concentrating fully) and not making the foolish errors, they could have scored another three or four tires easily. You can only play what is in front of you of course but so too do you wipe that game from the true decisions on test spots.

I was driving around Step-a-side looking for a pub that was open and willing to show the match. Nothing opened until after 12. According to the guy on the radio it was about as useful as a heavy training session.

[fa0019]

Putting in someone like Zebo, Corbisiero or Grant straight into the starting test lineup could ruffle a few feathers.
Chaps like Vunipola, Stevens, Cuthbert, Maitland & Hogg have all put in the hard yards... vunipola himself played 3 games in 8 days.

Martin Corry's inclusion in 2001 certainly raised some eyebrows (even though it was an inspired decision.... a bit of a downer that he was dropped the week later). Charvis was quite public about his exclusion and certainly made a telling negative mark on the series thereafter in the 3rd test.

[RDW]

Fair enough Guns - I didn't see the game either but sounds like Maitland was a real standout player - that's what people on here and all the pundits have been saying anyway.

I rate Cuthbert highly but just not sure about his defence.

I only read one report and they said O'Brien and Drico were the standouts. All it said of Maitland was he played well and showed enough to get a bench spot though he did feature on their stats for offloads etc.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-union-match-centre/live-combined-country-v-lions-20130610-2o0ld.html?reload=true

If Bowe is any way fit to play I have no doubt he will start.

OK well we'll both watch the game later on and see how he really did! Stats and match reports don't really tell you anything.

Completely agree on Bowe, but he is isn't available so that doesn't come into it!

[GunsGerms]

Putting in someone like Zebo, Corbisiero or Grant straight into the starting test lineup could ruffle a few feathers.
Chaps like Vunipola, Stevens, Cuthbert, Maitland & Hogg have all put in the hard yards... vunipola himself played 3 games in 8 days.

Martin Corry's inclusion in 2001 certainly raised some eyebrows (even though it was an inspired decision.... a bit of a downer that he was dropped the week later). Charvis was quite public about his exclusion and certainly made a telling negative mark on the series thereafter in the 3rd test.

Yes but they should all be given a chance to stake a claim now that they are in Australia. Once they have been given some game time and look the best option I dont see why they shouldnt be picked.

[GunsGerms]

OK well we'll both watch the game later on and see how he really did! Stats and match reports don't really tell you anything.

Completely agree on Bowe, but he is isn't available so that doesn't come into it!

Bowe has not been declared unavailable yet. He is having/has had surgery on his hand. Depending how quick his recovery is he may still be available, no?

[fa0019]

absolutely Guns. I don't see why the best man at the time shouldn't get the nod... regardless if he turned up 5 mins before or not.

But it may not be taken well by the players from past experience all I was saying.

[bsando]

Yeah Guns, what are you on mate haha, Maitland was all over the place today, looked really sharp.

All Lions wingers are good, including call up Zebo who I am really excited to see play.

[fa0019]

If Bowe is unavailable even for the just the 1st test it would be worth keeping him in the squad for the 2nd & 3rd.

A Halfpenny, North & Hogg trio could be very exciting and why change something that works... thats what messed up in 01... bringing back Neil Back for Martin Corry. Henry's biggest mistake in test rugby???

[munkian]

Does anyone else not think Cuthbery is still carrying an injury ? He was never defensivley savvy but he used to have serious pace. ACL still an issue ?

[EWT Spoons]

Did Grant come on and if so, how did he do?

[GunsGerms]

Yeah Guns, what are you on mate haha, Maitland was all over the place today, looked really sharp.

All Lions wingers are good, including call up Zebo who I am really excited to see play.

Yes they are all good but they havent all been playing well.

[RDW]

Did Grant come on and if so, how did he do?

According to the stats didn't touch the ball...!

[GunsGerms]

Does anyone else not think Cuthbery is still carrying an injury ? He was never defensivley savvy but he used to have serious pace. ACL still an issue ?

Does look like he might be injured or jet lagged or struggling with heat or something.

[fa0019]

If you're on the field, don't touch the ball but its active play should it count as a cap?

Dan Luger played against Samoa for 30 seconds but didn't get a cap in the 2003 world cup. Don't think he touched the ball either.... had he it could have been France lifting the title.

[fa0019]

Does anyone else not think Cuthbery is still carrying an injury ? He was never defensivley savvy but he used to have serious pace. ACL still an issue ?

Does look like he might be injured or jet lagged or struggling with heat or something.

Personally I thought he's looked a bit bigger then he was in the 6N, more bulky.

[GunsGerms]

If you're on the field, don't touch the ball but its active play should it count as a cap?

Dan Luger played against Samoa for 30 seconds but didn't get a cap in the 2003 world cup. Don't think he touched the ball either.... had he it could have been France lifting the title.

Why didnt he get a cap? Was it a blood replacement or something?

I think it should count as a cap even if you dont touch the ball. For example you dont need to touch the ball to put in a match/try saving tackle.

[fa0019]

it was the 16 man farce.

He went on the field but didn't replace anyone. England almost got thrown out the tournament. I think John O'Neill was especially keen.

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