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Should the Lions tour France?

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Should the Lions tour France? Empty Should the Lions tour France?

Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 13 Jun 2013, 1:40 pm

Saw this article on Rugby World and had to share it

By Gavin Mortimer 
EVEN THE biggest, fiercest, proudest Lions supporter would find it hard to dispute that so far the 2013 tour has been a let-down. Not quite a farce but verging on one. Nearly three weeks in and four matches gone and the sense of anti-climax is overwhelming. Apart from the cracking contest against the Queensland Reds, the Lions haven’t been seriously tested in their other three matches.
This could all change when the Test series starts on Saturday week, but no Lions tour in recent memory has got off to such a ponderous start. Pity the players, so desperate to impress in the battle for a place in the Test side, and spare a thought for Warren Gatland, tasked with selecting his best XV in a series of warm-up matches that wouldn’t stretch a touring pub team. No wonder he declared recently that “the tour is probably two matches too short for us and you would like a couple more warm-up matches going into that first Test”.
Gatland isn’t the only ex-hooker muttering at the way things have turned out on this tour. Brian Moore, who toured Australia with the 1989 Lions, has been outspoken in his criticism of Australia’s attitude towards their visitors. Having already renamed Western Force ‘Western Farce’, the former England hooker used his column in this week’s Telegraph to propose a radical restructuring of future Lions tours Down Under – that is if Australia continue to field weakened provincial sides in the lead up to the Test series. What Moore proposes is that the ARU “should allow the three Pacific Island nations to play the Lions on Australian soil”. Not only would it be “commercially viable”, writes Moore, it would also be a shot in the arm for Fijian, Samoan and Tongan rugby.
It’s a bold and worthy idea, one the Lions should consider. And while they’re at it, here’s another proposition: why don’t the Lions tour France? The Lions have played before in France, in October 1989, in a match to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the French Revolution that ended 29-27 to the visitors. But why not base an entire tour in France?
France didn’t have a rugby infrastructure in the amateur era to accommodate such a tour, but club rugby across the Channel has undergone a revolution in the past decade and the Top 14 is now the richest and most powerful league in the world game with so many overseas stars that even if the French coach pulled his 30 best homegrown players from tour matches, the Lions would still be challenged in every game.
Let’s imagine for a moment the 2013 Lions are now in France and not Australia. They would have kicked off their tour with a match against the French Barbarians, a team containing a sprinkling of promising Gallic talent and a few old heads such as Lionel Nallet, Julien Dupuy and Yannick Jauzion.
Then it would have been off to Biarritz, Basque country, to play a side containing the likes of Imanol Harinordoquy and Dimitri Yachvili. The following Saturday it’s Toulouse at the Stade Municipal, a seething cauldron filled with 35,000 souls all screaming for the Lions’ blood while cheering on Clement Poitrenaud, William Servat and Luke McAlister.
Survive that experience and the Lions head to a midweek encounter against France A in Montpellier before moving along the Mediterranean coast to face Jonny, Bakkies and the rest of their pals in Toulon.
The Tuesday sees the Lions run out against Racing Metro at the their 32,000-seater stadium just west of Paris, the final chance for Warren Gatland to run the rule over his squad, before the first Test the following Saturday at the Stade de France.
A trip to Clermont is the final Lions midweek match before the second Test at the Stade Velodrome in Marseille. The series ends with the third and final Test at the fabled Parc des Princes.
What a tour that would be, not just for the players but also the fans. Ask anyone who was in France for the 2007 World Cup and they will tell you – the French know how to lay on a good spread. The wine, the cheese, the sun – and not a whinging Aussie in sight.

Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/lions-2013-should-the-lions-tour-france/#2CDE3wpT5LO516mT.99

What a cracking tour that would have been, where every match would be a stern test for the Lions and a lot closer so some of the more financially challenged fans could make the trip to go and watch the Lions.
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Post by Hood83 Thu 13 Jun 2013, 1:42 pm

It's an interesting thought. It'd be the Lions against World All Stars most weeks. Weirdly though the Tests I think would be a massive anti-climax.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 13 Jun 2013, 1:51 pm

I actually agree - and the threat of doing it should hopefully make the SH unions and club sides take the Lions more seriously. They're happy to reap the financial benefits, but at the moment are contributing very little themselves.

I totally understand that Australia doesn't have a large number of Super 15 sides for the Lions to play, but not allowing their best players to participate, and not having a game against Australia A is a pity in my view.

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Post by red_stag Thu 13 Jun 2013, 1:59 pm

An interesting idea. I'd be concerned about whether the French players would have the interest during their off season though.

Toulon v Lions in Nice. Test matches in Marseilles, Lyon and Paris. The Lions playing a combined Parisian XV. Perpignan v Lions in Barcelona. Stade Toulouse against Lions. Clermont against the Lions. Fans being able to sail over to France and enjoy the tour with minimal cost.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:04 pm

Lions chose Hong Kong and the Boozin' Barbarians
Western Force sent out their lesser beings.
Reds were competitive opponents.
Lions chose to play a Combined selection of tradesmen who used a few Super rugby players to keep them safe.

But that so far is Lions guilty twice and the whingin' Aussies only guilty once.

Warratahs and Brumbies should (on paper!) put up two more competitive encounters before the first test. So will Lions guilt increase proportionally in the lead in to the first test?  We'll see.

Too much bull is being talked about all over the place about this media constructed lack of respect shown by the bleedin' Aussies.  The itinerary was agreed by the Lions and twice they've blatantly chosen their opponents unwisely.


Last edited by SecretFly on Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:06 pm

You are commenting on the wrong part of the report Fly, I couldn't give a monkeys if Australlia sent out the boy scouts 3rd XXIII to face the Lions.

I'm just trying to gauge how many would like to see a tour to France based on the tour's merits rather than the downfalls of this tour or any other tours.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:12 pm

Rugger, I'm commenting on the part of the report which is the very reason for the French proposal in the first place. It's a pointed article.  It has a target and it shoots at it. 

Eejits like Mr Woodward bring his stiff upper lip "we should tolerate no nonsense from the natives [I paraphrase]" and they're quite simply so far wrong in their assessment of how Australia have treated them.  They'll have played six games before the first test and the Aussies will only have been guilty for the quality of the opposition once by my reckoning.

So no, I guess I'm saying we don't need to contemplate a Lions tour of France and certainly not as a single digit hoisted in the face of the Aussies.

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Post by red_stag Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:21 pm

Also important to bear in mind tradition is a big part of the Lions (one of the main reasons that SA and NZ are better tours than AUS).
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:27 pm

I'd absolutely love to see the Lions tour France.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:40 pm

Simple answer, no.

If the Lions beat the 3N sides every year would there still be great interest??? No.

Its the challenge which sets lions tours apart. Very very few NH sides go to the SH and win a test match... let alone a series. Wales, Ireland and Scotland have never won a single match in the two traditional lions tour host countries (NZ & SA).

In AUS teams have fared little better. Ireland are the only team to have won a series in AUS (34 years ago). England have won a few matches in AUS but not a series (best result was a draw in 2010).

Yet how often do they beat France.... reasonably often.

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Post by offload Thu 13 Jun 2013, 2:45 pm

No - no tradition, no need, no time.
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Post by tigertattie Thu 13 Jun 2013, 3:13 pm

Hmmmm

I'm wondering if the Lions should play SA, Aus and NZ each on one tour? Maybe just after the 4N's? Rotate every 4 years which country the Lions get based in?

Dunno.  Just throwing it out there!
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Post by George Carlin Thu 13 Jun 2013, 3:13 pm

Nah. France finished bottom of the 6N this year so just think of the monumental spanking that this year's Lions would have delivered. And Gats would have called up Wilko just so that he wasn't playing against us.

There are 2 reasons to tour somewhere - the competition is top notch or the game needs to grow and/or get exposure in the host country. If we're bored of SANZAR, then we need a tour to Eastern Europe or the Far East and the Pacific Islands. Mix it up with a Pacific Islands Barbarians and some A games and we'd have a cracking tour. I would go on it. Very Happy
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Post by Scrumpy Thu 13 Jun 2013, 3:16 pm

Should the Lions join the 4 nations?
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Post by 123456789 Thu 13 Jun 2013, 3:22 pm

Three of the four teams in the Lions regularly beat France so it would be pointless, I think only Parra and Picamoles would start for the Lions from France, I do think the Lions should stop in Hong Kong and kick off the test against a Barbarians team, it provides a week to bond and relax and then a test against a disorganised, decent group of players to provide confidence and to start with a win, then they should have played in the pacific nations, we criticise New Zealand for "poaching" Pacific Islanders but there's a strong chance there could be three in our starting line up which is more than most New Zealand teams nowadays. They could play Tonga, then Fiji and finally Samoa before travelling to Australia.Then they could play the Super Rugby teams in the run up to the tests. Then during the series the midweek games could be against Country and another Western force, so players are still fresh for the weekend but have had game time also. This would give an eight game build up to a three test series. If they could get the season to finish mid-April and start earlier (the French want an earlier Heineken cup final anyway), they could have three to four weeks training in Britain depending on club commitments and then travel to HK for a warm game against the Baa Baas and also to raise funds.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 13 Jun 2013, 3:24 pm

Maybe in twenty years time we could be talking about the Lions touring Argentina.  After all it is rare for them to lose a test serires out there, they are a growing side in world rugby, and it would also help develope interest in the club scene there (aren't Pampas in the Currie Cup now).
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Jun 2013, 3:33 pm

tigertattie wrote:Hmmmm

I'm wondering if the Lions should play SA, Aus and NZ each on one tour? Maybe just after the 4N's? Rotate every 4 years which country the Lions get based in?

Dunno.  Just throwing it out there!

If you did that, you'd lose the magic of a Test series, which for me is one of the best things about the Lions.

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