Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 22nd June : TEST 1 BUILDUP

First topic message reminder :

So, it's only a week to go before the first Lions test for 4 years.

Gatland has a host of injuries and a game against the Brumbies to manoeuvre while deciding the 23 players who will take to the pitch next Saturday.

Christian Wade and Brad Barritt have both been called up to cover for injury concerns over Jamie Roberts, Manu Tuilagi, Tommy Bowe and George North


My team for Saturday

1. Maku Vunipola
2. Tom Youngs
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Tom Croft
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. George North (Simon Zebo)
12. Jonathan Davies
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Richard Hibbard
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Dan Cole
19. Richie Gray
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Ben Youngs
22. Owen Farrell
23. Manu Tuilagi/Stuart Hogg


Thoughts?

Based on the chat so far since the Saturday game, Sexton sat too deep and didn't sit deep enough - all at the same time.

Wharrah klutz that young man is!!!  Gedd'im off!

GunsGerms wrote:Was quite disapointed with two things in this game: The Lions tactics and their ref management. Firstly it was very clear early on that Pollock hasnt a clue how to ref the breakdown and he penalised the Lions all night for perfectly legitamite turnovers. Against such a ref you just have to accept that they are clueless and not compete at the breakdown unfortunatly.

Also Gatlands crash ball tactic just doesnt work. The Lions have plenty of very good skillfull backs that can play rugby. Maybe its time to take the game to the Aussies and show them what the Lions have got rather than being so predictable and conservative.

I was also disapointed with Philips he was very lazy in defense in particular when for Gregan's try. Any man selected for the Lions should be busting their gut to get back and make the tackle. Philips looked like he was out for a stroll in the park.

I would say though that a Genia's gallop is still much quicker than it looks... North was himself at full pelt trying to keep up. Phillips just doesn't have that pace and when hesitated in the first 10-20 metres that was it.

North cost the try though (we can give that to him though given his spectacular play). Halfpenny had Genia covered but he decided to leave his marker (Folau) and go to tackle Genia (who was in the end taken care of by Halfpenny anyhow... who doesn't miss many tackles in the first place).

That left Folau in acres of space to score a simple run in.... a winger should never leave his marker.... it risks the player going under the posts if fullback misses tackle but risks a certain try if he leaves his marker which is exactly what happened. Its childsplay. For all his plaudits that one vital decision could have easily cost us. I'm sure Howley will have a word though... it won't happen again.

If Phillips keeps his starting place then the only thing left to explain why he's selected is that he holds comprimising photos of Gatland. Sexton is stunted by Phillips, without North's solo heroics we would have lost big time.

Philips was awful. There was only one of his pick and go's that was successful in terms of yardage or getting quick ball.

He slowed the attack so often
His pass was laboured meaning sexton and the midfield had to stand further from the gainline.
Box kicking far too far
Picked and went and got destroyed by fringe defenders

It was a pretty unintelligent performance I thought. When we had backs looking for the ball, he slowed it down, sometimes it took him ages just to get to the ball. This is when the aussies have a make-shift backline and that is the area we should be targeting.

The ideal tactics do not suit philips' strengths and weaknesses. Not even close. I supported his selection despite the contradiction in tactics/personel because he was in such great form. It appears that his form is not good enough to overcome how limited he is against this aussie team

I wouldn't be surprised if Sexton sat deep due to the service he was getting from his forwards and Phillips.

1st - 3rd phase was always all forwards. Standing start, no quick ball, no momentum, no front foot and a flanker constantly passing him the ball.

When Sexton got the ball finally the AUS players were right on his tail... not due to being offside but because of the above. Only his skill allowed him to be not charged down/smashed.

The entire backline was stunted and they only looked good on set piece moves 1st phase or run backs from AUS kicks.

Surprised that there hasnt been too much clamour to criticise George North when he mimicked Dylan Armitage by wagging his finger at GreganV2 on route to scoring his brilliant try v the Aussies.

Armitage got an awful slating for doing this whereas North seems to have gotten away with it. Anyone know if there was an incident that prompted him to do it?

GunsGerms wrote:Surprised that there hasnt been too much clamour to criticise George North when he mimicked Dylan Armitage by wagging his finger at GreganV2 on route to scoring his brilliant try v the Aussies.

Armitage got an awful slating for doing this whereas North seems to have gotten away with it. Anyone know if there was an incident that prompted him to do it?

He apologised afterwards and cut it short. As opposed to getting into a troll-fight with Brian Moore on Twitter

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Surprised that there hasnt been too much clamour to criticise George North when he mimicked Dylan Armitage by wagging his finger at GreganV2 on route to scoring his brilliant try v the Aussies.

Armitage got an awful slating for doing this whereas North seems to have gotten away with it. Anyone know if there was an incident that prompted him to do it?

He apologised afterwards and cut it short. As opposed to getting into a troll-fight with Brian Moore on Twitter

Did he apologise in an interview after the game?

Not really surprising... things like that happen every day in rugby. Its just that in terms of arrogance and gamesmanship England and perhaps SA are highlighted more often then they would do so had they been from other countries.

The problem is Guns that reputations by nationality stick.

Look what happened to England in the RWC11... people were just waiting for a single slip up by them and then bang.

8 years of Will Carling was enough for most people. In his day his team were by all accounts quite down to earth... its just their spokesman, their post match interviewee was a pompous, old tie chap who said things like he "wished Lomu would leave the sooner the better for the good of the game".
Brian Moore was another who would always stick the knife in. I loved the way he played when I was younger but I hated him, absolutely hated him as victory for him was never enough... they wanted to humiliate you post match too.

Since then it didn't matter if they opened schools for the blind or cradled sick children. Although in many ways I think its helped their game.... sometimes they win matches they had no right to do so. Believe in something enough and it will become true.

I assume your countrymen are tired of the plucky bridesmaid image... everyone's favourite second team for the wrong reasons??? Who wants to be known as a gallant loser/always just 1 better at the time.

We ourselves suffer from a confidence image... get one behind early doors and we will drop our heads. Your even see the crowd sigh if the opposition score the first try (a regular occurance mind) and say... "ah well better luck next time, game is over". I honestly believe it has got such a problem that its a huge roadblock to overcome in our development.

Armitage wasnt singled out because he is English. He was singled out because he constantly attracts the wrong type of attention. He also made things worse by taking it to twitter. Twitter is just bad news all round.

North seems to be a fairly nice guy. Armitage comes across a little confrontational.

Armitage I agree but in general wouldn't you say? Ashton for instance has never really done anything on the pitch bar his swallow dives which annoys people but people absolutely hate him.
When he was punched by Tuilagi he just stood there and took it and then in the post match interview he said... these things happen and dusted it under the carpet. I think you would have seen  a number of so called "standup guys" whinge and complain over something like that.

fa0019 wrote:Armitage I agree but in general wouldn't you say? Ashton for instance has never really done anything on the pitch bar his swallow dives which annoys people but people absolutely hate him.
When he was punched by Tuilagi he just stood there and took it and then in the post match interview he said... these things happen and dusted it under the carpet. I think you would have seen  a number of so called "standup guys" whinge and complain over something like that.

I think Ashton gets a lot of undeserved abuse. Like when he was glassed out with his girlfriend in London

I didn't like North's mocking of Genia before crossing the line. Such a shame.

I would say almost as good as BOD's try in the 1st test 12 years ago but it was spoiled by his little point, now every time I see that try I'll have a wee pang of disapointment.

I think it was evidence that George was actually born in England and spent a few weeks there. That side to him however will eventually wear off

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I didn't like North's mocking of Genia before crossing the line. Such a shame.

I would say almost as good as BOD's try in the 1st test 12 years ago but it was spoiled by his little point, now every time I see that try I'll have a wee pang of disapointment.

It was very cold in Brisbane by normal standards. I wouldn't be too judgmental Radge. It can happen to the best of us. 

fa0019 wrote:Armitage I agree but in general wouldn't you say? Ashton for instance has never really done anything on the pitch bar his swallow dives which annoys people but people absolutely hate him.
When he was punched by Tuilagi he just stood there and took it and then in the post match interview he said... these things happen and dusted it under the carpet. I think you would have seen  a number of so called "standup guys" whinge and complain over something like that.

Swallow diving for every try is enough for any player to be hated. He completly deserves it and it cost him a place on the Lions tour IMO.

I wouldnt agree. I really like and even admire some English players. Always liked Lewis Moody, Josh lewsey and Jason Robinson for example. I also really like Dayglo as a pundit.

I think it had more to do with the lack of swallow dives GG.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think it had more to do with the lack of swallow dives GG.

He still has a good try scoring record overall. I think his defense in the 6N was the biggest factor. However, a couple of years ago no one would have thought that Maitland, Zebo and Wade would all get selected before Ashton. When it comes down to small margins having a reputation as a swallow diver wouldnt help your cause.

he was pretty dire though this season. It wouldn't have helped thats for sure esp. given it was a tough position to make with Bowe and one of Gatland's poster boys (Cuthbert) taking 2 of the slots already. Rokocoko used to do it too. Never got the same level of abuse... in fact people probably liked it.

At least North has publicly apologised I suppose (well on Twitter, which is global). Showing remorse is a good sign.

Griff wrote:At least North has publicly apologised I suppose (well on Twitter, which is global).  Showing remorse is a good sign.

Ah yeah and not surprising really. He seems like he has his head screwed on fairly well. I think Wales have a real champion on their hands there.

Yep, it's always nice to see a good guy do well! Not so great when he then does something silly like the finger wag though, but hopefully he'll get a load of ribbing for it and he'll stop now.

Tiger woods was meant to be a nice guy before all those revelations... then he became an awesome guy!!! (well if you're a chap anyhow!!!)

Griff wrote:Yep, it's always nice to see a good guy do well!  Not so great when he then does something silly like the finger wag though, but hopefully he'll get a load of ribbing for it and he'll stop now.

When I saw it I thought thats not something Id expect from North. However, this is possibly the biggest stage he has ever been on (or maybe RWC v Aus) and its understandable if the tension got the better of him. The fact that he was able to step back and admit he was wrong afterwards shows the strength of character of the guy.

fa0019 wrote:Tiger woods was meant to be a nice guy before all those revelations... then he became an awesome guy!!! (well if you're a chap anyhow!!!)

Dont care about his private life but post Elin Tiger seems to have developed into a fairly dislikable guy. Spitting, scowling and swearing on the course. He should know better.

I think Guns he knew the squeaky clean image he had built (but was a total lie) was over and he could just act like himself.... sort of my point.

What a sportsman portrays himself to be and what he actually is is probably two different persona's.

North for instance was probably made aware of his actions by Rowntree etc and it made him think twice. Not saying he's anything like that as we probably would have seen it in other instances. Its difficult to keep the discipline but Tiger did it for 10+ years and made billions out of it.

I think he was making fun of Genia because he was listed in the programme as 6 foot. Unfortunately the whole incident has been blown out of proportion, much like Genia, and the politically correct police have stamped down hard on this, much like Horwill. 

If he's anything like Gregan though  he makes up for his lack of height in other departments mind.. well from what I've heard at least!!!!

fa0019 wrote:I think Guns he knew the squeaky clean image he had built (but was a total lie) was over and he could just act like himself.... sort of my point.

What a sportsman portrays himself to be and what he actually is is probably two different persona's.

North for instance was probably made aware of his actions by Rowntree etc and it made him think twice. Not saying he's anything like that as we probably would have seen it in other instances. Its difficult to keep the discipline but Tiger did it for 10+ years and made billions out of it.

Ok fair point re Woods. Theres no doubt that some sports stars go to great lengths to project a certain image. Raphael Nadal is the perfect example of this IMO. Language barrier aside any interview I have seen him give seems so rehearsed and generic without any personality or insight into his character at all. His public image is the product of a very well oiled management team and he is groomed to give the "correct" response every time. Andy Murray by contrast you would have to assume is just himself in interviews.

As a general rule as a pro you should just avoid anything with the exception of winning legitimatly that attracts too much attention. I think its ok to have a bit of personality and to be yourself a little bit as long as you are still being professional. Avoid swan diving, fried chicken comments etc.

I think George was expecting to have to hand Genia off and then realised he didn't have too. I think there is a bit of a difference between the two things. Plus it was a great try beyond his wildest dream probably.

I think there's a difference also that Armitage reacted like he did and took his time apologising.

I agree that Rafa gives nothing way in press conferences though he's not afraid to speak out against the schedule and criticises Federer for not doing so. Still with his first and only girlfriend and my wife was impressed with how down to earth and unasssuming he was when she met him through her work (as sponsorrs of Madrid Masters).

Risca Rev wrote:I think George was expecting to have to hand Genia off and then realised he didn't have too. I think there is a bit of a difference between the two things. Plus it was a great try beyond his wildest dream probably.

I think there's a difference also that Armitage reacted like he did and took his time apologising.

I know there is a fair size difference but was it then still insulting attempting a one finger hand off?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I agree that Rafa gives nothing way in press conferences though he's not afraid to speak out against the schedule and criticises Federer for not doing so. Still with his first and only girlfriend and my wife was impressed with how down to earth and unasssuming he was when she met him through her work (as sponsorrs of Madrid Masters).

I was aware of his one and only girlfriend. Looks suspicious doesnt it? She rarely tours with him and she is from just up the road from his home in Mallorca. Far removed from any red blooded Spanish guy I know. I wouldnt be surprised if she was hired by the management team to be his "girlfriend".

lostinwales wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I think George was expecting to have to hand Genia off and then realised he didn't have too. I think there is a bit of a difference between the two things. Plus it was a great try beyond his wildest dream probably.

I think there's a difference also that Armitage reacted like he did and took his time apologising.

I know there is a fair size difference but was it then still insulting attempting a one finger hand off?

Not when you're George North.

You unashamed romantic! 

Think if he was doing the Tiger one in holes I'd be surprised if he could keep it quiet. Spanish women from el pueblo don't tend to travel much.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:You unashamed romantic! 

Think if he was doing the Tiger one in holes I'd be surprised if he could keep it quiet. Spanish women from el pueblo don't tend to travel much.

No I was insinuating that he probably hangs out in Cheuca when at the Madrid open.

 Gotcha!

Could be. I always like a sportsman to be honest and not afraid to speak out. Merthens is way above in the personality stakes than Carter  or Spencer but he's from Auckland so you expect him to be brash and shameless! Both pale in comparison to carter but you like them more for their personality. But not courting controversy like certain Aussie players or Savea and Guildford is not necessarily a thing to sniff at.

I've seen a few people say that George North apologised on Twitter for the finger, but it doesn't seem to be there.

https://twitter.com/George_North


Seems to be proof that young lads do indeed copy their idols, Armitage should be ashamed for setting such a bad example to his impressionable, adoring fans

It was there. It wasn't a direct tweet from him, it was in reply to some whopper who compared the two guy's actions.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I'd probably pick Bowe in front of Maitland on the basis that he's a far superior player. I'm old fashioned like that

Id pick Bowe before any winger on Tour, or left at home. Cos that's the way it is.

The man was born to be a Lion.

Risca Rev wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I think George was expecting to have to hand Genia off and then realised he didn't have too. I think there is a bit of a difference between the two things. Plus it was a great try beyond his wildest dream probably.

I think there's a difference also that Armitage reacted like he did and took his time apologising.

I know there is a fair size difference but was it then still insulting attempting a one finger hand off?

Not when you're George North.

Love it. He is immense, powerful, so skilful and when he gets a run going - he's unstoppable.  Bit like yerself in reality Rev.

Sassy And Sexy. 


That finger, to me, meant... "dont even think about it boy!"

He was just saving yerman from harm.

That's  not disrespect, that's Care in the Community.

That game was a shocker- Neither team wanted to win!!!

North and that Floua player looked awesome but the rest pahhhh.

Poor test.. 

But great win!!

mystiroakey wrote:That game was a shocker- Neither team wanted to win!!!

North and that Floua player looked awesome but the rest pahhhh.

Poor test.. 

But great win!!

The man has a point. It was shoite. Next one will, by definition, be better.

The ref ruined it by some truly baffling decisions. If he allowed the Lions contest the breakdown as per the rules of the game it would have been a hiding. By the end of the test the Lions were afraid to compete at all at the breakdown. Complete joke.

Gibson wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I'd probably pick Bowe in front of Maitland on the basis that he's a far superior player. I'm old fashioned like that

Id pick Bowe before any winger on Tour, or left at home. Cos that's the way it is.

The man was born to be a Lion.

True dat!

GunsGerms wrote:The ref ruined it by some truly baffling decisions. If he allowed the Lions contest the breakdown as per the rules of the game it would have been a hiding. By the end of the test the Lions were afraid to compete at all at the breakdown. Complete joke.

I feel the opposite is true. If he had allowed any competition at the breakdown, Australia would also have probably decided to compete at the breakdown (Warbs even states that he realised after those penalties early on that he shouldn't try and do so, and it was obvious that the Aussies weren't either), then we would have an interesting test to see if Warbs could take on Hooper and Mowen. Or Gill if he came on. I think Deans may have picked Hooper over Gill for the specific reason that he knew pilfering, at which Gill is statistically the best in the SH whilst Hooper gives away plenty of penalties, would not be allowed. So while what you suggest MAY have been true, it is not clear by any means at all

GunsGerms wrote:The ref ruined it by some truly baffling decisions. If he allowed the Lions contest the breakdown as per the rules of the game it would have been a hiding. By the end of the test the Lions were afraid to compete at all at the breakdown. Complete joke.

It would at least have made it a far more better game,despite the 4 tries defenses were well on top and neither side was able to exert any sustained pressure on the opposition try line.When both teams stop competing at the breakdown it allows the defenses to fan out and cover the wide channels and since there are 15 men in Union they can pretty much cover every gap.
2 of the tries came off kick returns,one from a tap penalty and one came about from a set play when a backrow forward was in the centre.

Its all well and good blaming the ref. but at the key times in that game both teams messed up..- the last 10 mins was an absoloute shocker by both teams

I think We played better overall. However if Aus had there kicking boots on we would have been beaten..

How to win the 2nd Test and the Series.

1. Youngs with Sexton
2. Parling for POC
3. Bring back Bill McLaren

Oz will stuff us. Bet on it.

Gibson wrote:How to win the 2nd Test and the Series.

1. Youngs with Sexton
2. Parling for POC
3. Bring back Bill McLaren

Oz will stuff us. Bet on it.

How to win the 2nd test: Someone mark Genia. Like glue. Seriously

Australia wont be stuffing anything. I predict the Lions will wrap it up on the weekend.