Wimbledon Seedings for this years tournament

by Fernando Wed 19 Jun 2013, 11:41 am

First topic message reminder :

GENTLEMEN'S SINGLES

DJOKOVIC, Novak (SRB) [1]
MURRAY, Andy (GBR) [2]
FEDERER, Roger (SUI) [3]
FERRER, David (ESP) [4]
NADAL, Rafael (ESP) [5]
TSONGA, Jo-Wilfried (FRA) [6]
BERDYCH, Tomas (CZE) [7]
DEL POTRO, Juan Martin (ARG) [8]
GASQUET, Richard (FRA) [9]
CILIC, Marin (CRO) [10]
WAWRINKA, Stanislas (SUI) [11]
NISHIKORI, Kei (JPN) [12]
HAAS, Tommy (GER) [13]
TIPSAREVIC, Janko (SRB) [14]
ALMAGRO, Nicolas (ESP) [15]
KOHLSCHREIBER, Philipp (GER) [16]
RAONIC, Milos (CAN) [17]
ISNER, John (USA) [18]
SIMON, Gilles (FRA) [19]
YOUZHNY, Mikhail (RUS) [20]
QUERREY, Sam (USA) [21]
MONACO, Juan (ARG) [22]
SEPPI, Andreas (ITA) [23]
JANOWICZ, Jerzy (POL) [24]
PAIRE, Benoit (FRA) [25]
DOLGOPOLOV, Alexandr (UKR) [26]
ANDERSON, Kevin (RSA) [27]
CHARDY, Jeremy (FRA) [28]
DIMITROV, Grigor (BUL) [29]
FOGNINI, Fabio (ITA) [30]
BENNETEAU, Julien (FRA) [31]
ROBREDO, Tommy (ESP) [32]

LADIES' SINGLES

WILLIAMS, Serena (USA) [1]
AZARENKA, Victoria (BLR) [2]
SHARAPOVA, Maria (RUS) [3]
RADWANSKA, Agnieszka (POL) [4]
ERRANI, Sara (ITA) [5]
LI, Na (CHN) [6]
KERBER, Angelique (GER) [7]
KVITOVA, Petra (CZE) [8]
WOZNIACKI, Caroline (DEN) [9]
KIRILENKO, Maria (RUS) [10]
VINCI, Roberta (ITA) [11]
IVANOVIC, Ana (SRB) [12]
PETROVA, Nadia (RUS) [13]
STOSUR, Samantha (AUS) [14]
BARTOLI, Marion (FRA) [15]
JANKOVIC, Jelena (SRB) [16]
STEPHENS, Sloane (USA) [17]
CIBULKOVA, Dominika (SVK) [18]
SUAREZ NAVARRO, Carla (ESP) [19]
FLIPKENS, Kirsten (BEL) [20]
PAVLYUCHENKOVA, Anastasia (RUS) [21]
CIRSTEA, Sorana (ROU) [22]
LISICKI, Sabine (GER) [23]
PENG, Shuai (CHN) [24]
MAKAROVA, Ekaterina (RUS) [25]
KUZNETSOVA, Svetlana (RUS) [26]
LEPCHENKO, Varvara (USA) [27]
SAFAROVA, Lucie (CZE) [28]
PASZEK, Tamira (AUT) [29]
CORNET, Alize (FRA) [30]
BARTHEL, Mona (GER) [31]
OPRANDI, Romina (SUI) [32]

GENTLEMEN'S DOUBLES

BRYAN, Bob (USA) & BRYAN, Mike (USA) [1]
GRANOLLERS, Marcel (ESP) & LOPEZ, Marc (ESP) [2]
PEYA, Alexander (AUT) & SOARES, Bruno (BRA) [3]
PAES, Leander (IND) & STEPANEK, Radek (CZE) [4]
QURESHI, Aisam-Ul-Haq (PAK) & ROJER, Jean-Julien (NED) [5]
LINDSTEDT, Robert (SWE) & NESTOR, Daniel (CAN) [6]
MIRNYI, Max (BLR) & TECAU, Horia (ROU) [7]
BHUPATHI, Mahesh (IND) & KNOWLE, Julian (AUT) [8]
FLEMING, Colin (GBR) & MARRAY, Jonathan (GBR) [9]
GONZALEZ, Santiago (MEX) & LIPSKY, Scott (USA) [10]
BENNETEAU, Julien (FRA) & ZIMONJIC, Nenad (SRB) [11]
DODIG, Ivan (CRO) & MELO, Marcelo (BRA) [12]
LLODRA, Michael (FRA) & MAHUT, Nicolas (FRA) [13]
BOPANNA, Rohan (IND) & ROGER-VASSELIN, Edouard (FRA) [14]
KUBOT, Lukasz (POL) & MATKOWSKI, Marcin (POL) [15]
HUEY, Treat (PHI) & INGLOT, Dominic (GBR) [16]

LADIES' DOUBLES

ERRANI, Sara (ITA) & VINCI, Roberta (ITA) [1]
HLAVACKOVA, Andrea (CZE) & HRADECKA, Lucie (CZE) [2]
PETROVA, Nadia (RUS) & SREBOTNIK, Katarina (SLO) [3]
MAKAROVA, Ekaterina (RUS) & VESNINA, Elena (RUS) [4]
KOPS-JONES, Raquel (USA) & SPEARS, Abigail (USA) [5]
HUBER, Liezel (USA) & MIRZA, Sania (IND) [6]
GROENEFELD, Anna-Lena (GER) & PESCHKE, Kveta (CZE) [7]
HSIEH, Su-Wei (TPE) & PENG, Shuai (CHN) [8]
PAVLYUCHENKOVA, Anastasia (RUS) & SAFAROVA, Lucie (CZE) [9]
MLADENOVIC, Kristina (FRA) & VOSKOBOEVA, Galina (KAZ) [10]
BLACK, Cara (ZIM) & ERAKOVIC, Marina (NZL) [11]
BARTY, Ashleigh (AUS) & DELLACQUA, Casey (AUS) [12]
KING, Vania (USA) & ZHENG, Jie (CHN) [13]
HANTUCHOVA, Daniela (SVK) & KIRILENKO, Maria (RUS) [14]
CHAN, Hao-Ching (TPE) & MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel (ESP) [15]
GOERGES, Julia (GER) & ZAHLAVOVA STRYCOVA, Barbora (CZE) [16]

Source:http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2013-06-19/201306191371633190432.html

by CaledonianCraig Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:28 pm

Hawkeye clutching at straws desperately. Yes it says they stuck with rankings but as you have already been told the seeding system includes grass court results over the last two years (I think it is) as well and taking those into account there were absolutely no grounds on that system to bounce Nadal up to four. That Rosol defeat last year done damage in more ways than one to him.

by Johnyjeep Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:29 pm

Does anyone understand the principle of principles? The right decision has been made.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:31 pm

Breaking the rules isn't right
http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2013-06-19/201306191371633190432.html

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:35 pm

HE ... for goodness sake.. I for one am having a laugh and yes I bliddy do venture out of 606v2 but it is what it is he has been seeded No.5. and for my part I dont give a damn and I doubt he does.. he has to play who is in front of him.. if he has a tough ride he plays better you saw that in the FO. If he puts out the big guns before the semi-finals then for me it might bury Rosol once and for all. This Wimbledon is like no other for Rafa and I say if he plays the way we know he can it matters not what his seeding. Ill repeat it over and over Boris Becker won Wimbledon as a qualifier.Rafa knows what he has to do if he cant then sobeit.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:36 pm

In short the player hawkeye wanted replaced at four was David Ferrer. Their grass court records in that last two years (roughly) are:-

Wimbledon 2012

Ferrer beaten in the QF.
Nadal beaten in the 2nd Round

Prior to that in 2012 I do not believe Rafa played another grass court tournament whilst David Ferrer won the Topshelf Open.

2011:-

Wimbledon 2011

Ferrer beaten in the 4th Round
Nadal beaten finalist.

May be mistaken but I don't think Nadal played another grass court tournament that year whilst David Ferrer (I do believe) again wo the Topshelf Open.

by barrystar Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:37 pm

principle of arguing for what is right... let's see chin

(a) it is perfectly legitimate to argue that the Wimbledon seeding committee should retain a discretion to choose seeds subjectively - that would put the ATP and clay-court tennis players in the opposing camp of course - but such an argument needs to describe the basis on which the committee would be expected to act in this case and what they should do

(b) it is entirely illegitimate to criticise a body for not wielding a power that it does not have

Anyone therefore relying on that principle needs to make a (principled) argument along the lines of (a) above - where is it?

by CaledonianCraig Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:38 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:HE ... for goodness sake.. I for one am having a laugh and yes I bliddy do venture out of 606v2 but it is what it is he has been seeded No.5. and for my part I dont give a damn and I doubt he does.. he has to play who is in front of him.. if he has a tough ride he plays better you saw that in the FO. If he puts out the big guns before the semi-finals then for me it might bury Rosol once and for all. This Wimbledon is like no other for Rafa and I say if he plays the way we know he can it matters not what his seeding. Ill repeat it over and over Boris Becker won Wimbledon as a qualifier.Rafa knows what he has to do if he cant then sobeit.

There speaks a Rafael Nadal fan with a modicum of common sense.

by ryan86 Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:38 pm

Nadal played Halle in 2012, but lost to Kohlshreiber in straight sets in his 2nd match.

by The Special Juan Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:40 pm

Ferrer - World Number 4
Nadal - World Number 5

Even if they went to the way all the other majors rank players, Ferrer is still number 4 seed. Besides, if Nadal's that good he'll beat whoever's in his way.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:42 pm

ryan86 wrote:Nadal played Halle in 2012, but lost to Kohlshreiber in straight sets in his 2nd match.

Ryan I think we are all aware of what happened to Rafa in 2012.. Halle, then Wimbledon 2nd round and then 7 mths injury.. I dont place any importance on any of that..2013 has been a New Year for Rafa... and the rest of his tennis career started when he came back from injury.

by Guest Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:43 pm

I don't think Rafa would mind one bit being seeded number five.

It means he avoids DP, Tsonga and Berdych and could potentially get Ferrer in the quarter who imo is an easier prospect on grass than the former three, particularly for Nadal who has struggled in the past against powerful, flat hitters.
Anyway, my view regarding the seeding is the same as for RG - stick to what you always do, no need for exceptions.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:46 pm

No the point is Haddie-Nuff that is displays the reasoning.

1. David Ferrer is ranked above Rafa in world rankings which play their part in Wimbledon's seedings.

2. They also use grass court results over the last two years. Evidently, over the last two years Ferrer has the better grass court form so gets more points into the seeding system hence another clear reason why Ferrer had to be seeded four.

by ryan86 Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:48 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
ryan86 wrote:Nadal played Halle in 2012, but lost to Kohlshreiber in straight sets in his 2nd match.

Ryan I think we are all aware of what happened to Rafa in 2012.. Halle, then Wimbledon 2nd round and then 7 mths injury.. I dont place any importance on any of that..2013 has been a New Year for Rafa... and the rest of his tennis career started when he came back from injury.

I'm not trying to mock Rafa etc. I was merely pointing out a slight error in CC's post, slightly lost in the flow due to others posting in between. Fortunately, I think Nadal is going to soon return to his natural ranking. Whether that is 1,2 or 3 I don't know.

by **laverfan** Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:52 pm

hawkeye wrote:Does no one here understand the principle of arguing for what is right?

So, what is right, seeding Nadal above his current ATP ranking, knowing the last 52 weeks of Grass play he has had?

hawkeye wrote:Also does no one ever venture out of 606v2? Anyone would think I'm the only one saying this...

If I recall, you had once quoted a WiKi reference to 'echo'. Is this what this hoopla is all about?

Player X has ATP #n, has Grass (in last 52 weeks - m), hence this is where player X is. This is a sport, not a tear-jerker, is it? Why not have a player survive a slam, based on what they can do with a racquet and a ball on the court?

Sampras played in the Graveyard of the Champions. Federer is #3, despite being the holder of 2012 W, so what? He is not seeded #1, is he?

PS: Challenge Round was abolished in 1922, IIRC.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:53 pm

It has been pretty much common knowledge for a few weeks that Rafael Nadal would be seeded 5 and even in knowing that he is my tip to win Wimbledon regardless of who he has to play. It is a shame hawkeye cannot take that view points.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:54 pm

Ryan I was not suggesting you were mocking Rafa at all.
I think 2012 was in many ways more difficult for Rafa than any of us realised at the time .. albeit he cannot be persuaded to speak of it but rather put it behind him. 2013 has started better than he or Toni could ever imagine and so whatever happens at Wimbledon will be accepted as what is ...is. IF he should win it ... and of course its a huge IF... then I think we can safely say that Rafa given both his seeding and his fantastic comeback... will have well and truly earned it. If he goes home early... he has his beloved Mallorca and a spot of fishing.. either way he is a winner:D

by **laverfan** Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:56 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ryan I was not suggesting you were mocking Rafa at all.
I think 2012 was in many ways more difficult for Rafa than any of us realised at the time .. albeit he cannot be persuaded to speak of it but rather put it behind him. 2013 has started better than he or Toni could ever imagine and so whatever happens at Wimbledon will be accepted as what is ...is. IF he should win it ... and of course its a huge IF... then I think we can safely say that Rafa given both his seeding and his fantastic comeback... will have well and truly earned it. If he goes home early... he has his beloved Mallorca and a spot of fishing.. either way he is a winner:D

Well said, Haddie. rose

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:58 pm

TY LF:hug:

by The Special Juan Wed 19 Jun 2013, 5:06 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ryan I was not suggesting you were mocking Rafa at all.
I think 2012 was in many ways more difficult for Rafa than any of us realised at the time .. albeit he cannot be persuaded to speak of it but rather put it behind him. 2013 has started better than he or Toni could ever imagine and so whatever happens at Wimbledon will be accepted as what is ...is. IF he should win it ... and of course its a huge IF... then I think we can safely say that Rafa given both his seeding and his fantastic comeback... will have well and truly earned it. If he goes home early... he has his beloved Mallorca and a spot of fishing.. either way he is a winner:D

Indeed

Nadal's pretty much done everything in the game there is to do. The way I see it is he's gotten over a potentially career ending injury and now has a "free run" these days where the aim of the game is win as much as possible before the knees go for good. And if he has the chance to beat Murray, Federer and Djokovic along the way, so much the better for him.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 19 Jun 2013, 5:11 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Ryan I was not suggesting you were mocking Rafa at all.
I think 2012 was in many ways more difficult for Rafa than any of us realised at the time .. albeit he cannot be persuaded to speak of it but rather put it behind him. 2013 has started better than he or Toni could ever imagine and so whatever happens at Wimbledon will be accepted as what is ...is. IF he should win it ... and of course its a huge IF... then I think we can safely say that Rafa given both his seeding and his fantastic comeback... will have well and truly earned it. If he goes home early... he has his beloved Mallorca and a spot of fishing.. either way he is a winner:D

Indeed

Nadal's pretty much done everything in the game there is to do. The way I see it is he's gotten over a potentially career ending injury and now has a "free run" these days where the aim of the game is win as much as possible before the knees go for good. And if he has the chance to beat Murray, Federer and Djokovic along the way, so much the better for him.

and hopefully, finally, win the End of Year Finals

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 5:14 pm

Wouldn´t that be the icing on top of the cake

by barrystar Wed 19 Jun 2013, 5:26 pm

My recollection is that most of us thought that Nadal would be likely to be ensconced in the top 4 by now.

The main reason Nadal is not seeded #4 at Wimbledon is because Ferrer surprised everyone by making the RG Final through the lop-sided draw due to Nadal's ranking.

Ferrer is turning out to be the greatest beneficiary of Nadal's injury and his relatively low ranking compared to his form this year - unless Ferrer draws Nadal in his quarter he's probably got the best chance of making a Wimbledon SF he'll ever have, which would mean a run of 4 slam SF's (or better) in a row.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 5:38 pm

I agree with you barry Daveed has benefitted from Rafa´s injury (though I doubt he would like to have done it that way) however whilst Daveed has played at the top of his game for some months now and has earned full credit for what he has achieved I am inclined to think that Wimbledon may well be his Waterloo.. he is such a natural clay court player on which he excels, hard court being his next best surface.. I do not see him advancing to the last stages of Wimbledon.. I might be wrong but that is my opinion.

by invisiblecoolers Wed 19 Jun 2013, 6:32 pm

FedsFan wrote:Does the media know something we do not know? Everywhere you look they say Murray could face Nadal in the QFs. Surely this is not a certainty? I think it is more likely Nadal will be drawn against Fed in the QFs which would automatically kill Roger's enthusiasm!

No, the quarter finals gonna be Nadal - DJokovic, we deserve a blockbuster quarterfinal like that and Wimbledon gonna give us. thumbsup

by barrystar Wed 19 Jun 2013, 6:34 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:I agree with you barry Daveed has benefitted from Rafa´s injury (though I doubt he would like to have done it that way) however whilst Daveed has played at the top of his game for some months now and has earned full credit for what he has achieved I am inclined to think that Wimbledon may well be his Waterloo.. he is such a natural clay court player on which he excels, hard court being his next best surface.. I do not see him advancing to the last stages of Wimbledon.. I might be wrong but that is my opinion.

I watched him vs. Murray at Wimbledon last year and I thought he was extremely good, I was impressed by the angle and sting on his ground strokes as well as the inability to give up! Didn't he also beat Del Boy?

Last year he won a tournament on grass, and this year he's been knocked out, so a good run at Wimbledon may be a step too far, but if he can bring anything like last year's form to Wimbledon and he's not got Nadal in his quarter I think a Wimbledon SF could well beckon.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 6:50 pm

You may well be right but I think Daveed has had a very exhausting year to be honest and he is yet another year older. Im not putting a downer on the little man because he truly is one of my favourite players but something tells me that his legs wont be as fresh as they were last year and Del Boy is not someone I would use as a yard stick against Daveed. He has one hell of a reputation of being a giant killer. Big servers, DelBoy Berdych Raonic dont bother him and he has a good H 2 H against them. However.. Im chuntering on here and he will do his damn best to prove me wrong no doubt:D

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 6:51 pm

would someone tell me why my smilies are not working please !!!!

by HM Murdock Wed 19 Jun 2013, 8:54 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:would someone tell me why my smilies are not working please !!!!

Have you put your teethies in?

by Haddie-nuff Wed 19 Jun 2013, 9:04 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:would someone tell me why my smilies are not working please !!!!
Have you put your teethies in?

O ha HM bliddy ha ha ... !!!

by carrieg4 Wed 19 Jun 2013, 11:19 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:HE ... for goodness sake.. I for one am having a laugh and yes I bliddy do venture out of 606v2 but it is what it is he has been seeded No.5. and for my part I dont give a damn and I doubt he does.. he has to play who is in front of him.. if he has a tough ride he plays better you saw that in the FO. If he puts out the big guns before the semi-finals then for me it might bury Rosol once and for all. This Wimbledon is like no other for Rafa and I say if he plays the way we know he can it matters not what his seeding. Ill repeat it over and over Boris Becker won Wimbledon as a qualifier.Rafa knows what he has to do if he cant then sobeit.

by YvonneT Wed 19 Jun 2013, 11:34 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ill repeat it over and over Boris Becker won Wimbledon as a qualifier

Haddie-nuff, I'm not sure you do want to repeat this over and over, as I'm not convinced that he did. Pretty sure he was unseeded when he won it at first, but not a qualifier, and I'm assuming he didn't have to qualify in subsequent years. The essence of your point about Rafa is fair though Hug

by YvonneT Wed 19 Jun 2013, 11:47 pm

I'm rather more sympathetic to HE's point that the seedings are there not for individual players but to benefit the tournament overall by having the biggest matches at the end rather than early on (in this case, early on meaning quarters for a "big 4" clash). However, I think Wimbledon is more fortunate than RG in a way in that it feels like there is a wider pool of players that could win it - therefore various match-ups could produce a final of quality & suspense. It certainly doesn't have to be a Djokovic-Nadal final to generate interest.

Anyway, even if their agreement with the ATP is not binding, if I were on the committee I wouldn't want to get into the process of subjectively allocating the seedings - it's not just a case of deciding to swap Nadal & Ferrer - why not move Federer down given his form, or up given the number of Wimbledon titles he has including last year's. It's a potential minefield I wouldn't be wanting to enter when an objective method is there to be used.

by lags72 Wed 19 Jun 2013, 11:55 pm

I do believe you are correct there* Yvonne T ; but I also believe - like you - that Haddie-nuff has used the analogy with good intention, and 'justifiably' so, as it were

Becker is that very rare example of an unseeded player actually taking the Title. Another was Goran Ivanisevic - although his case was even more noteworthy in some respects. On the one hand he was obviously a highly experienced tour player at the time, BUT ....... he actually came into the tournament as a Wild Card.

I seem to recall that the most successful qualifier was the one & only Johnny Mac who memorably made it to the semi-final, in what I think would have been his first attempt.

* edit : ie ref your 11.34pm post

by YvonneT Thu 20 Jun 2013, 12:05 am

lags72 wrote:I seem to recall that the most successful qualifier was the one & only Johnny Mac who memorably made it to the semi-final, in what I think would have been his first attempt.

Oh good, I thought it was MacEnroe which was why the Becker thing jumped out at me as a mistake. Downgrading Mac's record is far worse than downgrading Nadal to fifth seed IMO !

by banbrotam Thu 20 Jun 2013, 12:30 am

hawkeye wrote:Would have, should have, could have?

Their decision could very well come back to bite them if Nadal plays to form and they get a repeat of the anti-climactic RG final. After all they have a show to run...

HE. Do you right anything, just to get a reaction? Even if Rafa was No.1 seed, depending on the draw, we could still get a Rafa/Ferrer final

I fail to see your obsession with this - remember Murray's two first slam finals, were when he was seeded below No.4

I sense your real worry is that Rafa will be at a distinct disadvantage if he has to play all his three rivals to win and your annoyance that he is far more likely to face such a route than them. Simply because he only has a one in three chance of avoiding them in the QF's, whereas they only have a one in three chance of facing Rafa

Assuming Rafa survives to the quarters

by lags72 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 12:32 am

After her somewhat, shall I say, poorly-received article on 'Federer, Djokovic & Murray h2h against Top 20' - and more so the preceding 'sister article' on Nadal (which ended up being locked in a quagmire of negative feedback) - I was hoping that hawkeye would have been more constructive in comments here about the process of determining this year's seedings.

But once again HE has not thought through what she is saying, nor indeed listened to the logical argument and explanations put forward by others with a good understanding of the subject matter.

It's all too apparent that HE's sole agenda is to demand that some sort of exception be made so as to favour Nadal in a way that it is not done for any other player.

by banbrotam Thu 20 Jun 2013, 12:33 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:You may well be right but I think Daveed has had a very exhausting year to be honest and he is yet another year older. Im not putting a downer on the little man because he truly is one of my favourite players but something tells me that his legs wont be as fresh as they were last year and Del Boy is not someone I would use as a yard stick against Daveed. He has one hell of a reputation of being a giant killer. Big servers, DelBoy Berdych Raonic dont bother him and he has a good H 2 H against them. However.. Im chuntering on here and he will do his damn best to prove me wrong no doubt:D

Along with Tsonga - let's face it, he's the QF opponent the Top 3 seeds want on grass. Berdy is dangerous simply because he knows he can play on this stuff and with him it's about belief.

by banbrotam Thu 20 Jun 2013, 12:38 am

On a related subject - what the hell's up with Raonic?

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/06/25/Eastbourne-Wednesday-Raonic-Simon.aspx

I like Dodig, but please - if you're an up and coming youngster you need to be winning these matches

I think Milos is getting found out with that one-dimensional game of his

by Haddie-nuff Thu 20 Jun 2013, 6:48 am

Yvpnne & Lags I stand corrected... but I am glad you see the point I was trying to make:thumbsup:

by CaledonianCraig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 6:50 am

Far more of a danger than Raonic is Grigor Dimitrov.

by Haddie-nuff Thu 20 Jun 2013, 6:53 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Far more of a danger than Raonic is Grigor Dimitrov.

If he doesn´t cramp yes I would agree

by hawkeye Thu 20 Jun 2013, 7:53 am

Why do people think that seeding is given as a reward? Pro tennis is an entertainment and seeding is a tool that is used to get the best entertainment where it matters at the latter stages of a tournament. The All England Club has shot itself in the foot by not doing it's best to protect its product. Potentially it is going to throw away a marque match between the two form players in the quarters.

Haddie Nuff and others that point out that Nadal is capable of winning from this position are of course correct but they are missing the point. If he does so there is a good chance he will have provided the best entertainment in the wrong place. This is exactly what happened in the FO.

Incidentally as a Nadal fan I'm not too unhappy at The All England Clubs stupidity and/or cowardice. Winning from this position potentially be better for him.

by Haddie-nuff Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:04 am

hawkeye wrote:Why do people think that seeding is given as a reward? Pro tennis is an entertainment and seeding is a tool that is used to get the best entertainment where it matters at the latter stages of a tournament. The All England Club has shot itself in the foot by not doing it's best to protect its product. Potentially it is going to throw away a marque match between the two form players in the quarters.

Haddie Nuff and others that point out that Nadal is capable of winning from this position are of course correct but they are missing the point. If he does so there is a good chance he will have provided the best entertainment in the wrong place. This is exactly what happened in the FO.

Incidentally as a Nadal fan I'm not too unhappy at The All England Clubs stupidity and/or cowardice. Winning from this position potentially be better for him.

No I am not missing the point at all HE I have merely stopped kicking the boundaries that will stay firmly in place.
I never liked it at the FO buy kept my opinion to myself. Believing that Rafa already had a big enough mountain to climb without being seeded as he was.. as it happens I am now of the belief that it was the best thing that could have happened FOR HIM... Im not sure about the tournament as a whole. But Rafa plays so much better when he comes from behind. From Wimbledon's point of view Im sure the tournament organisers must realise they will be the losers in the end my sympathies go to the people who have payed good money in the hope of seeing him. However I agree with your last paragraph so we are singing from the same hymn sheet thumbsup

by CaledonianCraig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:24 am

Seeding is a reward for ranking points and (in Wimbledon's case) grass court form of the last two years.

For one last time hawkeye, Ferrer is ahead of Nadal in the rankings and what is more he has better grass court form over the last two years than Nadal. This adds more points to the seeding system for Ferrer easing him further ahead of Nadal. What part of that don't you understand or feel that is so unfair?

by barrystar Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:52 am

Wearing my David Attenborough hat I'm interested by the persistent wriggling and dissembling here - it's difficult to know whether HE's continued criticism of the AELTCC is the result of a genuine failure on her part to understand the reality, or a deliberate attempt to keep a pointless controversy alive because she is enjoying the result.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:54 am

Fair point barry. I mean surely she isn't stupid enough not to have grasped the full facts of the matter in all their clarity. After all they have been pointed out enough times.

by lydian Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:02 am

I understand the sentiments but this almost feels a little like HE is being gang mobbed here. She has a point of view, I don't think it's fair to label her tantamount stupid, etc.

The irony of course is that it was the Spanish Armada in 2001 that complained they werent protected enough in the early rounds. As a result the AELTC dispensed with a seeding committee in place of a formula that weighted normal tour points highly and expanded to 32 seeds. So, we have what we have and Nadal is #5. It happens and of course Nadal's early exit in 2012 went against him. He can have no complaints really...and he isn't complaining. He did it the harder way at FO, he can do the same at Wimb.

We all know that seedings should be about who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, favourite to win a tournament but that went out of the window long ago. Anyway, my worry for Nadal is the first 3 rounds. If he gets to QF then he's probably going to be in good form and difficult for anyone to beat, after all it's not often he doesn't make the final at Wimbledon.

by barrystar Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:12 am

lydian wrote:I understand the sentiments but this almost feels a little like HE is being gang mobbed here. She has a point of view, I don't think it's fair to label her tantamount stupid, etc.

The irony of course is that it was the Spanish Armada in 2001 that complained they werent protected enough in the early rounds. As a result the AELTC dispensed with a seeding committee in place of a formula that weighted normal tour points highly and expanded to 32 seeds. So, we have what we have and Nadal is #5. It happens and of course Nadal's early exit in 2012 went against him. He can have no complaints really...and he isn't complaining. He did it the harder way at FO, he can do the same at Wimb.

We all know that seedings should be about who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, favourite to win a tournament but that went out of the window long ago. Anyway, my worry for Nadal is the first 3 rounds. If he gets to QF then he's probably going to be in good form and difficult for anyone to beat, after all it's not often he doesn't make the final at Wimbledon.

Oh for goodness sake, don't you fall for it.

It is quite fair to say that the seeding has produced a nonsense result and they ought to change the way in which it is assessed. That is an interesting debate - it's a difficult one because the AELTCC changed the seeding to comply with the wishes of (largely clay-court) players that the seeding would objectively reflect and reward all-year-round merit, so any attempt to build discretion in would run into the juggernaut of the ATP and the prospect of boycotts by Spanish players. Even so, it's still a good debate and for my part I think it's a shame that the slams caved in and they should be able to run their own tournaments and in a perfect world the AELTCC would have the ability to seed Nadal in the top 4 and, if they had it, they should use that power - BUT THEY DON'T HAVE IT. It is also a debate that HE is avoiding. HE is either being so stupid about this or so determinedly mischievous that she's not prepared to address the real debate to be had. Instead she criticises the AELTCC for being stupid and pusillanimous when they have no ability to do anything because of an agreement they reached with the ATP to mollify players. It is absurd to blame a seeding committee which does not exist, or the AELTCC, who have their hands bound. They are not idiots and cowards. You overlook the fact that HE seems content to level that accusation when she has no right to do so because it is groundless.

Note, also, that I am not criticising HE as a person, I am criticising her posts on this thread - there is a difference. I am not saying that she is stupid or a troll. I don't know her beyond the evidence of her posts; I am saying that what she is doing in this instance is either stupid or trolling.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:12 am

That is the thing here in you have to beat who is put before you.

Hawkeye's severe protestations, she claims, is purely because it ruins the chance of big-match ups late on ruining chances of a big final. Tosh.

Say Nadal draws Murray in the quarters you get a big match up in the quarters. Presuming Rafa wins then quite possibly you will have a semi-final line-up consisting of Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Ferrer and from that either a Fed/Nadal final or Djokovic/Nadal final. Hardly a weakened final is it?

by Jahu Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:13 am

...talking about feeding the trolls with this thread....

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