Wallabies v British & Irish Lions: 3rd Test - pre match discussion and Poll

First topic message reminder :

Third test winners and score prediction?

20:00 AEST, 11:00 BST
Saturday, 6th July, 2013
ANZ Stadium, Sydney

Referee: Romain Poite

The weather is expected to be clear and sunny with temperatures ranging from 5-16° C at Homebush Bay.

So it will all come down to the final match with the series level at 1-a-piece.
Both sides are battered and bruised, many top players are missing... there's even a touch of controversy.
The final team announcements will be made later in the week... probably around Thursday morning AEST.

Kudos to Tony McGahan (was Munsters Defence/backs coach before becoming head coach).

The Wallabies took him on as Dean's assistant because of his familiarity with all the NH players. All the Munster lads will say of him that his analysis and attention to detail was 2nd to none.

SecretFly wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Have you been watching the same games as me?We could have had Cyril Smith on one wing and a grand piano on the other as they never get a pass anyway!The lack of ball rather than the lack of guile is the telling factor methinks.

Guile looks for ball.  It doesn't wait for the 'gameplan' to come to it.  Unless of course no ball (kicked away) was the gameplan guile?  I stand by every word I say Taff, because yeah, I watched the same game as you and no point in having big wings if the biggest cheer of the night is for a wing carrying a player downfield rather than a ball.  

As a former wing it would appear that wings of any shape or size are surplus to requirements other than to chase after speculative hoofs into the ether and consequently bigger lads are the order of the day sadly.The no risk approach is dire and the who dares wins does not figure in the pragmatic Gatland repertoire.

Sin é wrote:Kudos to Tony McGahan (was Munsters Defence/backs coach before becoming head coach).

The Wallabies took him on as Dean's assistant because of his familiarity with all the NH players. All the Munster lads will say of him that his analysis and attention to detail was 2nd to none.

True...it is a significant and unspoken cog in the wheel of the Aussie machine that they have a guy who knows many of the first teamers intimately

Not just the Munster players - from McGahan's profile on the Wallabies website:

The club [Munster] has remained amongst Europe’s leaders in the time since, allowing McGahan to provide the Wallabies with a unique insight into a number of the players he will encounter again this season, during his maiden voyage as a senior international coach.

Seems to be in line for the Rebels coaching job after this.

He became Munster head coach at 34 (which is amazing since everyone said that Axel was older than him when he went for the Munster job and was younger than Axel when at Munster).

Well worth watching on twitter is Laurie Fisher (ex-Munster and now forwards coach with the Brumbies).

Comment from the test match the other night:

Laurie Fisher ‏@LordLaurie58 1 Jul
Lions need to generate quicker ruck ball to give their attack any chance. An average 4 second clearance is way too slow to threaten good D.

When is the squad announced?

Usually about 3am wed morning our time - think they are delaying it this week to see if Roberts & Corbs will be fit for Saturday.

Last couple of weeks it has been Wednesday night/Thursday morning but it is due to be tonight (guess it can be a day earlier with no midweek match). They reckon Gatland may delay it a further day if he isn't sure about certain players injuries.

I just wish all of these disruptions and mind games would cease!  

Think you are right, jelly... it could be later this evening for us and tomorrow am for the Lions.

Does anyone know when the lads are due back from Noosa? Lovely place. I wonder if they used the Wallabies facilities at Caloundra which is just down the road from there.

However, the more I think about it, I believe SCW has a fair point. They should have come straight to Sydney - there's plenty of training facilities, beaches and parks to unwind in. It's perfect weather now... a max. of 20 deg C and 22 tomorrow.... only a couple of degrees 'cooler' than the Sunshine Coast.

Didn't I see the Wallabies having down time on a beach too? Where was that? Sydney?

I think part of the planning for the Lions is to get away from the contant barrage of media as much as anything - win or lose that second game, they probably sensed the media demands would be big and I guess Noosa was considered a quiet get away.

Our football players always have a dip in the sea the morning after big games... or any game really. Well, at least those clubs that are lucky enough to be located close to the coast. It's part of the recovery process.

I do realise the Lions want to avoid the media barrage here. Just having a stir, Fry.

Oh I'm easy Linebreaker  Just explaining why I think Noosa might have been picked.

But Woodward's words of wisdom during this tour are a funny continuing installment.  Especially that bullshyte comment about players needing to just lie up and lick their mental wounds rather than sliding away for a day or so to recover from the mental baggage instead.
He's a great one for the military precision guff but he's had his chance to prove tough disciplin and a military camp environment works...it didn't.

 "But Woodward's words of wisdom during this tour are a funny continuing installment. Especially that cowpat comment about players needing to just lie up and lick their mental wounds rather than sliding away for a day or so to recover from the mental baggage instead.
He's a great one for the military precision guff but he's had his chance to prove tough disciplin and a military camp environment works...it didn't. "

I do like you on times Fly

only on times, Ruby?

Aww, and here's me liking you all the time

 Bet you've loved my posts and Limericks of late

Yeah, there's some good Shakespearian stuff on that Limerick Thread, Ruby. Some guys I initially thought were monkeys proved themselves to be a step up the evolutionary trail with them ditties wot does be rhyming and tings...

SecretFly wrote:True...it is a significant and unspoken cog in the wheel of the Aussie machine that they have a guy who knows many of the first teamers intimately

Intimately, eh?
How exactly do mean 'intimately'.
Just wondering.

 I thought the same Fly - Cyril came out with some gems and he was bang on and articulate whilst some posters whom I thought would excel were pretty naff. I guess I'm just fortunate to be blesed all round apart from the fxxxing golf on the weekend - Lieeeeeeee Onnnnnnnnnnnns

doctor_grey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:True...it is a significant and unspoken cog in the wheel of the Aussie machine that they have a guy who knows many of the first teamers intimately

Intimately, eh?
How exactly do mean 'intimately'.
Just wondering.

it's a new age grey. Get with the program, metrosexual bisexualism and a bar of shower soap is the new Black. The net and a search engine will explain the rest.

 Now now Dr Grey, intimacy can be shared in many different guises, let's not degenerate again - Too long in Joisey and Mexico for you - it's not good for those ethical values you hold so dear.

My heart says the Lions, It would be a disaster for the Lions to go 16 years without a series win and looking at needing a series win in NZ to avoid 20.

But I think thats exactly what will happen unless we seriously buck our ideas up. Kia is right; we all said when the squad was picked it was a boshtastic Gatland selection with no Plan B and thats where we are. Hopefully we will select players who are good scrummagers, a heavyweight pack and a power runner at 12- Corbisiero, Hibbard, Gray, O'Brien and Tuilagi to come in.

Fly and Ruby.
You are much more modern gents than I, a poor humble retrograde (not degenerate) bloke.

The bar of soap might just be a bridge too far...........

Well, I think it's fair to say that Gatland has nailed his colours firmly to the mast with that selection. I am not surprised at all (with the exception of retaining Parling) as we had to go for power as we have precious little guile in the squad to call on. Gatlandball it is then.

What he has also done with this selection is ensured that this forum wil not be a pleasant place to be in the aftermath of the tour.

If we win, then some Welsh posters will be unbearable and be claiming this as a win for Wales and stating that had Gatland gone with his boys from the start we would have won 3-0.

If we lose, then some posters from the other nations will be quick to heap blame for it on the Welsh and cite them as next to useless.

That's a fair prediction, Ozzy.

I was calling for O'Driscoll to be dropped, but I never thought it would actually happen. Fair play to Gatland. Regardless of how good a player he's been over the years - and he's been a true great - a series win has to take priority over a fairytale ending.

Faletau in for Heaslip is great to see, too.

Wallabies for 3rd Test:

1. Benn Robinson.
2. Stephen Moore
3. Ben Alexander
4. James Horwill (C)
5. Kane Douglas
6. Ben Mowen
7. George Smith
8. Wycliff Palu

9. Will Genia
10. James O’Connor
11. Joe Tomane
12. Christian Lealiifano
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Israel Folau
15. Kurtley Beale

Reserves
16. Saia Faingaa
17. James Slippper
18. Sekope Kepu
19. Rob Simmons
20. Ben McCalman
21. Michael Hooper
22. Nick Phipps
23. Jesse Mogg

So Smithy makes the run-on side.
Feel a little sorry for Hooper but he'll be champing at the bit when he comes onto the field of dreams on Saturday night.
I'm a little perplexed about McCalman's inclusion - what's he done recently... or am I missing something?

Anyway, Iv'e gone Wallabies 8-15* but I'm tempted to alter that to 15+ on game day. See how it feels first...

Changed the OP to avoid the points overlap - it now reads "1-7", "8-15", etc.

You gotta be happy with that side LB. If its 3rd time lucky for JOC (and boy is he lucky) then the Ozzies should win this. They now play a test knowing they have a kicker beforehand and Smith adds some well timed experience to this- How on earth he can still play at the rate he is I don't know. If anything he looks faster than the earlier duels with McCaw and co.

TM, yes I'm sort of happy.

JOC needs to fire. It was awful watching him try and run it (with players outside) and either dropping it or getting completely smashed.
He should just pass the phocking ball, show more awareness and try not to be a hero. I hope someone has kindly suggested that to him.  

He needs a 180 deg turnaround in his performance.
As I said a few days back I'd have almost dropped him... but who am I?  

It's just 84 mins max. for Smith but most likely 64 mins or so. The team will lift for sure with him around.

The one thing which does stand out for me:

Before the series and even after T1, many on here were stating that the Wallabies would struggle due to no match time together in the lead up. Conversely, the Lions would be settled and their combinations would be firing. That last one hasn't happened (and I'm praying it won't click all of a sudden on Saturday) and the Wallabies look far more cohesive in the front row especially and with Horwill to start - even our locks should have the upper hand too now.

Despite all of the chopping & changing in the Lions camp regarding the loose forwards... again it his been all over the place and this WG selection appears too one dimensional to me. Also, there has to be some disruption amongst the players themselves. Sure, the stalwarts can put on a brave face and say "this is what we always wanted anyway..." but that then makes a mockery of all of their performances so far. They've painted themselves into a corner but the Wallabies must still be very wary and treat the Lions 6,7,8 with considerable respect.

Add to that the BOD omission and there is some real tension under the surface. It is one thing to be desperate to win and throwing everything into Plan A or Route 1 (so sick of hearing that!) but the key will be early points. Australia must convert early pressure and forward dominance and execute all opportunities and crack their defence; thus forcing Gats to play his hand with subs earlier than necessary. The Wallaby Camp are talking about how disappointed and embarrassed they were last week with their poor ball security and are dying to make amends.

For Australia's sake, that's all we need. Do the job much better than last week. I'm sure they can. They must. I believe the Wallabies are a better team (as a group and also individually; 10 out of 15 starters at least) but should be so much better. I think they realise this too.

The Lions will throw everything at them of course but as long as our defence can hold solid, we compete well at the breakdown and set pieces and show them what 'real' backline play is all about (Roberts/Davies - big though they are do not have the same degree of creativity as our centre pairing) then I believe it could turn out in our favour in the end.

Finally, Issy had a relatively quiet match in Melbourne although he still made a couple of classic 10-15m inroads leading up to the AAC try. Only one defender away from beating 3 defenders again and with BOD missing, the pressure will transfer out towards the wings and he will shine. He won't be 'carried' again by North... I'll guarantee it.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Well, I think it's fair to say that Gatland has nailed his colours firmly to the mast with that selection.  I am not surprised at all (with the exception of retaining Parling) as we had to go for power as we have precious little guile in the squad to call on.  Gatlandball it is then.

What he has also done with this selection is ensured that this forum wil not be a pleasant place to be in the aftermath of the tour.  

If we win, then some Welsh posters will be unbearable and be claiming this as a win for Wales and stating that had Gatland gone with his boys from the start we would have won 3-0.

If we lose, then some posters from the other nations will be quick to heap blame for it on the Welsh and cite them as next to useless.

Well then, Forewarned is forearmed. Be ready with your red pen and your bans. In fact you may need to prepare a ban-mobile for all the offenders.

But many things could happen: The Lions could play poorly and win - who gets credit? Owen Farrell could save the tour (then everyone will be in fits). Lions could be saved by Ritchie Grey, our token Scot. How would that be for justice?

Oh come on. Now you're just clutching at thermometers, Doc.  

Linebreaker wrote:Oh come on. Now you're just clutching at thermometers, Doc.  

Could be worse - could be those silicone medical gloves used for the cough, cough, cough inspection.

22 deg C today... a perfect blue sky. Great weather for tourists!
A dry, firm pitch for Saturday so may I suggest it will be a bare hands affair with a negligible slip factor. Hope our guys get their studs right for this last one.

15 hours to go until kick off people.  This is it.

I've said all I am going to say about Gatlandball and wanting more flair and guile, it's US against the shackle-draggers now and I will be shouting myself hoarse in the morning wanting the boys in the red jerseys to win.

COME ON YOU LIIIIIONNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shackle draggers.  

 Australia 18 - Lions 22

I didn't know whether to go with my head or my heart so in the end I settled for my herd

I'm going heart all the way on this Ruby, screw it, this is the fecking Lions man.  Lions by 10.


Believe! 

RubyGuby wrote: Australia 18 - Lions 22

I didn't know whether to go with my head or my heart so in the end I settled for my herd

Aye...its a good herd too Ruby 

It's a tough one to call. Both sides can raise their games significantly, but will it be one or the other, both, or neither?

From a Lions perspective, set piece is key, especially the lineout. Physicality is one thing, but for it to be effective it needs to be physicality at pace. If the backs get quick ball, they can play some rugby*.


* - Rugby, Gatlandball, whatever.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I'm going heart all the way on this Ruby, screw it, this is the fecking Lions man.  Lions by 10.


Believe! 

I love it Ozzy
 

North to Ground Folau under the posts for the winning try!!!

Ball? Nope, I don't have a clue where that'll be at the time.

   

SecretFly wrote:North to Ground Folau under the posts for the winning try!!!

Ball? Nope, I don't have a clue where that'll be at the time.

The ad boys should be grabbing North now for the next Head & Shouders adverts  

For all the criticism that Dan Lydiate gets, Will Genia wasn't half as prominent in the second Test as he was in the first. (That's not to say it was only Dan who tackled him.) If we can keep him quiet again, we'll be getting somewhere. The other danger man is Kurtley Beale, but as he's wider out he's harder to stop. Fingers crossed he's wearing rollerskates tomorrow. I would say I'm glad Michael Hooper's not playing, but then I haven't seen how George Smith's been playing recently.

 That Hooper fella has gone under everyones radar - definately a baby faced assasin if ever I saw one

Ruby,
I have a question unrelated to the Lions and Wallabies.  Just wondering, really.  If you feel the question is out of bounds, please say so.  I always enjoy a little chat or a laugh, and I can rely on you for good comments.  But this is something I have wondered about for a while.  

You mostly post with that strange picture of yourself.  That big very round blue face and and the even bigger left thumb always sticking quite rigidly upwards.  Now, I know people have different lifestyle preferences and far be it for me to judge.  And I know in some parts a guy with a big rigid thumb could be quite popular (Neath?).  Just wondering the connection to Rugby?  No offense intended.    

 I'm always happy to field all questions Grey, even if they are offensive; which of course yours is not. Many years ago I sent the thumbs up emoticon with my very first post - It just seems appropriate and gives some kind of context to my posts as the essential non-verbal elements are missing. It's intention is to put a sort of harmless slant on what I'm suggesting, nothing more than that. I like very serious debate and am able to beg to differ and of course I enjoy some great banter on here. Have got really attached to Cyril since the Lions and that's been nice. I think it's important that we can all argue and fall out on here and then of course eventually find some grudging middle ground - This ones just for you.

For some reason my emoticon fella is going to the beginning of the post now instead of the end, never mind he's still there

 

Doctor, I have to assume you've never owned a cat, otherwise you'd recognise the squint and the enlarged paw indicative of a cat that's been whisker-deep in catnip all morning. Now I'm not saying there's nothing else to do in Neath apart from taking cat-drugs, but if our Ruby wants to indulge in, er, herbal remedies, I say let him do so. Judge not lest ye be high.

 I'm sipping Aberlour malt at the moment Luckless and Ive been in Cornwall for 20 years - But the Neath in me will forever remain - My Gran lived in Newport and I spent the Summers with her as a child, Maindee Baths and Belle Vue Park ring any bells 'cos that's where she used to take me

OK, just a nice reason. Nothing peverted as I tried to suggest. I thought if I could get you to admit to walking around Port Talbot at midnight with that big thumb up and ready to have a little fun for a tenner, it would be much more interesting. And it might just cut the tension a tad.

Just having a laugh, really. It's always fun chatting, mate.
Where will you be watching tomorrow?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:For all the criticism that Dan Lydiate gets, Will Genia wasn't half as prominent in the second Test as he was in the first. (That's not to say it was only Dan who tackled him.) If we can keep him quiet again, we'll be getting somewhere. The other danger man is Kurtley Beale, but as he's wider out he's harder to stop. Fingers crossed he's wearing rollerskates tomorrow. I would say I'm glad Michael Hooper's not playing, but then I haven't seen how George Smith's been playing recently.

If I was Deans I would have dropped him from the 23 for the third.

 I will be watching at home in Truro; Cornwall with my 2 boys aged 6 and 13. Watched the first 2 on the beach at Perranporth -

Belle Vue park's still beautiful, Ruby, even though it's next to the hospital and right on the main road.

Maindee baths burnt down a few years ago. That's Newport arsonists for you, they like a challenge.

   10 Park Avenue is where she lived - Mad as a hatter

How can you burn down a swimming pool