Lets talk about Wales!

First topic message reminder :

We knew Wales can win European grand slams and championships, but the monkey on the back of the players was for them to win in the Southern hemisphere. In all fairness that has now been accomplished.

So many of them have played a huge part in this series, surely now Gatland and these players can go to the next level?

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts
11 George North
10
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5
4 Alun-Wyn Jones
3 Adam Jones
2 Richard Hibbard
1

It's quite incredible that all of these players have now started a test game and won in Australia. While Gethin Jenkins probably would of played some role had he stayed fit.

This could be a massive shot in the arm to these players and maybe a new golden era dawn for us!  

Be nice to win the six nations three years in a row...! No ones done that before

We're letting Georgia in next year just to stop you trying it Maesteg

I'm afraid it'll be the first year of the Seven Nations.............

If phillips is retireing will richie rees take his spot?

SecretFly wrote:We're letting Georgia in next year just to stop you trying it Maesteg

I'm afraid it'll be the first year of the Seven Nations.............

Oh well. Could be the first team to get a five, Six and seven nations..!

dragon4life wrote:If phillips is retireing will richie rees take his spot?

Hope not, one dimensional doesn't even describe how limited a player he is.

I am not really sure that Rees will even be first choice down the Dragons. He has some work to do to displace Evans

Jhamer25 wrote:

doddieman wrote:Might it be an idea to use our 1st choice players for autumn, try to turn over the southerners for once, but then rest the welsh lions come 6 nations time? Try to develop some of this strength in depth we so long for on a proper stage (ie not japan)?

Can see where your coming from. Would like to win them all though. The Six Nations is going ti get harder and harder from now on with Scotland and Italy developing a lot of good players. But i would love to beats South Africa and Australia in the same month. It won't happen but it wouldn't be a terribel idea. Let's just give um a rest and see what happens.

So maybe not possible to rest them all (given that it would mean 14 players) but maybe some of the older or more.injury prone. We need to develop another front row, SH, no.8, give the likes of beck a proper run, anohter wing and fullback option too.
The idea of putting the team that toured japan out in the 6N would be ludicrous and very disrespectful to ticket buying fans but we could take this interim period between lions and rwc to do some player development.

doddieman wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:

doddieman wrote:Might it be an idea to use our 1st choice players for autumn, try to turn over the southerners for once, but then rest the welsh lions come 6 nations time? Try to develop some of this strength in depth we so long for on a proper stage (ie not japan)?

Can see where your coming from. Would like to win them all though. The Six Nations is going ti get harder and harder from now on with Scotland and Italy developing a lot of good players. But i would love to beats South Africa and Australia in the same month. It won't happen but it wouldn't be a terribel idea. Let's just give um a rest and see what happens.

So maybe not possible to rest them all (given that it would mean 14 players) but maybe some of the older or more.injury prone. We need to develop another front row, SH, no.8, give the likes of beck a proper run, anohter wing and fullback option too.
The idea of putting the team that toured japan out in the 6N would be ludicrous and very disrespectful to ticket buying fans but we could take this interim period between lions and rwc to do some player development.

The reality is unfortunately tat teams very rarely manage to put out their best teams these days.

I can't remember an Autumn series where SA went into the end of season tour with a full squad. The amount of rugby played these days simply doesn't allow for it.

As an example, in 15 tests since last year, our two first choice wings managed to play only 3 matches together.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Biltong wrote:It was still the Lions, not Wales that won the series.  

If we had lost I think one or two would have disagreed with you;) 

Funnily enough first guy I spoke to, English, who'd played in NZ said "it was a Welsh team anyway" Not in a nice way. You can't win!

Dontheman wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Biltong wrote:It was still the Lions, not Wales that won the series.  

If we had lost I think one or two would have disagreed with you;) 

Funnily enough first guy I spoke  to, English, who'd played in NZ said "it was a Welsh team anyway"   Not in a nice way. You can't win!

Well, irrespective of how one sees it, the challenge now for Wales is to find a way to win against SA, OZ and NZ, They need to start winning their home matches, that should be their fortress.

It is an odd little anomoly isnt it...

A big problem for Wales are the players leaving for France. I've always said that a few leaving are no big deal but when a chunk of the squad is over there it becomes a big deal. The French season is very long and the players will not be looked after as well as they are in Wales.

France are bringing in an overseas player quota soon aren't they? Should help things IMO.

Who will Wales likely have at Loose Head in the next 6 Nations?
Seems an embarrassment of riches on the TH (Adam Jones has been phenomenal) but a bit thin on the ground LH?

The sooner that we put the Lions behind us the better.A poster even managed to attribute the low Scottish representation on the Shingler poaching business!This was Warren's vengeance!Unbelievable.
Not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Taffineastbourne wrote:The sooner that we put the Lions behind us the better.A poster even managed to attribute the low Scottish representation on the Shingler poaching business!This was Warren's vengeance!Unbelievable.
Not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Have a good cry mate. Get it out of your system.
Then dry your eyes.

It's been an emotional weekend!

LH you have rhys gill, rhodri jones, ryan bevington who are all blooded on the international scene. Plenty of competition there....also at 31 still another season or two left in paul james. wouldn't be surprised if gethin jenkins retires from international rugby soon to concentrate on the blues.

two 9's to look out for are the scarlets rhodri williams and aled davies. both are technically very gifted, and i can see both having big seasons this year.

nobbled wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:The sooner that we put the Lions behind us the better.A poster even managed to attribute the low Scottish representation on the Shingler poaching business!This was Warren's vengeance!Unbelievable.
Not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Have a good cry mate. Get it out of your system.
Then dry your eyes.

It's been an emotional weekend!

Sorry but I went for the laugh option

Griff wrote:France are bringing in an overseas player quota soon aren't they?  Should help things IMO.

They said that years ago but its gone the opposite way.

pioden gorllewin wrote:LH you have rhys gill, rhodri jones, ryan bevington who are all blooded on the international scene. Plenty of competition there....also at 31 still another season or two left in paul james. wouldn't be surprised if gethin jenkins retires from international rugby soon to concentrate on the blues.

two 9's to look out for are the scarlets rhodri williams and aled davies. both are technically very gifted, and i can see both having big seasons this year.

Thanks Pioden. If any of your LH options can just hold their own, you've a hell of a front row with Jones and Hibbard.

Hibbard was a revelation to me on Saturday. Not only his scrummaging and his unfeasibly hard head, but his work at the breakdown was excellent. He was man of the match for me - for the first half.

profitius wrote:

Griff wrote:France are bringing in an overseas player quota soon aren't they?  Should help things IMO.

They said that years ago but its gone the opposite way.

Cotter was even suggesting that's why Clermont aren't reaching the heights they keep promising to...not enough of them! (foreigners)

So there is a continuing battle of wills on that one. France is a very dangerous battleground for the future of all rugby in Europe, both domestic and International. The clubs seem to be increasingly motivating for club competion that surpasses International, in that they are sucking in the best players from all Nations and hemispheres, regardless of the effect it might be having on their own National team.

Some say French International rugby will collapse as a result. That might sound omenous...but not to those clubs that don't seem to care about International, or indeed, see International as an actual rival for players, sponsorship, continuing growth of a world club concept etc, etc.

People say clubs better stop before it's too late. Too late for what? Telling them to stop presumes their plan was never to harm French International in the first place.

There is a real dichotomy growing between fans dedicated to the continued expansion of the club game (with only a passing interest in the International game), and those who think International is already being set up to be the victim of that ambition.

Will all International sides of the future be no more than scratch sides drawn together at short notice, from those players who have been given contractual freedom to leave their domineering clubs?

Immediate problem for Wales is 9/10, longer term is TH. Sampson Lee is promising, but at his age, Dai Young was a lot better. Scott Andrews just started to show last season that he may be up to it, although I can't see him ever being a tower of strength in the AJ mould. I would worry about him up against Corbisiero.

From what I have seen of Gareth Davies, he has many of the attributes to be a quality international 9, but still has things to learn and is inconsistent at the moment. Patchell, Owen Williams and Sam Davies all very promising but for the future not now.

If you were picking a team now, I think you'd have to go for Lloyd Williams and Dan Biggar, which is okay.

What now for Tips?

Tips will play a big part going forward, when Warbs or Lydiate are injured, even if he doesn't actually displace Warbs.

pioden gorllewin wrote:LH you have rhys gill, rhodri jones, ryan bevington who are all blooded on the international scene. Plenty of competition there....also at 31 still another season or two left in paul james. wouldn't be surprised if gethin jenkins retires from international rugby soon to concentrate on the blues.

two 9's to look out for are the scarlets rhodri williams and aled davies. both are technically very gifted, and i can see both having big seasons this year.

I definitely feel that Paul James should be given the LH shirt. He's immense in the scrum. He's got a few years left in him and has played relatively little international rugby so should be fresh as a daisy.

BlueNote wrote:Immediate problem for Wales is 9/10, longer term is TH.  Sampson Lee is promising, but at his age, Dai Young was a lot better.  Scott Andrews just started to show last season that he may be up to it, although I can't see him ever being a tower of strength in the AJ mould. I would worry about him up against Corbisiero.

From what I have seen of Gareth Davies, he has many of the attributes to be a quality international 9, but still has things to learn and is inconsistent at the moment.  Patchell, Owen Williams and Sam Davies all very promising but for the future not now.

If you were picking a team now, I think you'd have to go for Lloyd Williams and Dan Biggar, which is okay.

That's not a half-back pairing that fills me with confidence.

BlueNote wrote:Tips will play a big part going forward, when Warbs or Lydiate are injured, even if he doesn't actually displace Warbs.

Warburton seems very injury prone too. Tipuric has a big part to play going forward.

nobbled wrote:Who will Wales likely have at Loose Head in the next 6 Nations?
Seems an embarrassment of riches on the TH (Adam Jones has been phenomenal) but a bit thin on the ground LH?

Far far from it mate we have Gethin Jenkins who when back playing regularly will be his world class self,. The dominant Paul James who is a class scrummager, not phenomenal around the park but still a great player. Then er have Rhys Gill who is is aslo a great player. If anything TH is a scare becuase If Adam got injured we would only have Craig Mitchell who is a descent scrummager. With looshead if Gethin got injured we could turn straight to Paul James.

What about Aaron Jarvis - before his injury he looked OK in his few welsh games.

 The advantage we have at the moment is that with such a good platform and backline, new players should be able to slot in a lot easier - The missing pieces from the 10 who played on the weekend for me are

Gethin
Ianto
Warbs/Tips

Biggar/Priestland/Patchell who all have their strengths and are still developing

Cuthbert

9's are in abundance IMO although I think Tavis is slipping down the pecking order rapidly - A lot of good up and coming 9's but it would be interesting to see Ritchie Rees linking with such a good pack and a strong set of backs. He's a Danny Care type of player and IMO we just need a 9 to do the basics right; that would be enough with that team.

Can't Wales ever troubling the SH, just like Stuart Barnes said in the Lions final test preview on Friday "Davies in at 13? well he is just another Welsh man use to losing to Australia"

Griff wrote:What about Aaron Jarvis - before his injury he looked OK in his few welsh games.

Yes he is a very strong scrummager but i would like to see more from him until i make a proper judgement on him. He did struggle against Samoa which is why i have my doubts, he has come up strong against good props before though so let him just get back from injury and playing a few more games with the spreys.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Can't Wales ever troubling the SH, just like Stuart Barnes said in the Lions final test preview on Friday "Davies in at 13? well he is just another Welsh man use to losing to Australia"

Don't really get the sense or meaning of your post, it doesn't really make since becuase technically the core of the Lions team was Wales and we smashed them. A lot of the boys picked up their form from when they played there last game for Wales against England. John Davies was amazing as well so don't get your point

Was thinking the same thing today - All Wales need is a new 9 and a decent 10 and they should have a good shout at winning the next world cup. Now seriously who are the outhalf candidates at 10?

littlejohn wrote:Was thinking the same thing today - All Wales need is a new 9 and a decent 10 and they should have a good shout at winning the next world cup. Now seriously who are the outhalf candidates at 10?

Rhys Patchell will be at 10 for the World Cup    Trust me.  

It's fair to say that too many of my fellow Welsh fans have been getting a little carried away since Saturday.  

The British and Irish Lions team (massively bolstered by Sean O'Brien), in the second half of the final test, finally blew away an under-strength Aussie 15 and a full strength Welsh side could probably compete "on their day" with anyone except New Zealand, but we're still as capable of losing away to Romania as we are of destroying England at home.  'tis the Welsh way and probably always will be.  

There is no strength in depth and talk of 'best ever 20 year old tight head' etc etc is inebriated club-talk at best. (Got bent in half by a semi-geriatric Duncan Jones).  Long way to go yet to prove any sort of consistency at test level.

Casartelli wrote:It's fair to say that too many of my fellow Welsh fans have been getting a little carried away since Saturday.  

The British and Irish Lions team (massively bolstered by Sean O'Brien), in the second half of the final test, finally blew away an under-strength Aussie 15 and a full strength Welsh side could probably compete "on their day" with anyone except New Zealand, but we're still as capable of losing away to Romania as we are of destroying England at home.  'tis the Welsh way and probably always will be.  

There is no strength in depth and talk of 'best ever 20 year old tight head' etc etc is inebriated club-talk at best. (Got bent in half by a semi-geriatric Duncan Jones).  Long way to go yet to prove any sort of consistency at test level.

How many Grandslams, Six Nations Championships, ten players in the test side of a winning Lions tours and RWC semi Finals do you need to "prove any sort of consistency at test level"...?

10 ? 20 ?

 I still think a sense of perspective is required Maest - We are a perennial bi-polar team as defeats to Samoa, Argentina and a poor Aus at home recently illustrated. We are getting there but we must not get ahead of ourselves

RubyGuby wrote: I still think a sense of perspective is required Maest - We are a perennial bi-polar team as defeats to Samoa, Argentina and a poor Aus at home recently illustrated. We are getting there but we must not get ahead of ourselves

The fact that you expect Wales to beat the teams you have mentioned shows how far Wales have come in twenty years.

Some of us Welsh folk need to keep their feet on the turf, is all I'm saying.  A Welsh XV, minus SOB, Corbs, Sexton etc wouldn't have won this series, even against a sub par Aussie team.  

We have no strength in depth, as the Japan tour confirmed, and a Lions side with such a heavy bias towards one nation is an odd concept.  (Gatland could've let a Scot start instead of Tommy Bowe, without disrupting the team).

Shouldn't get carried away by any of this.

Casartelli wrote:Some of us Welsh folk need to keep their feet on the turf, is all I'm saying.  A Welsh XV, minus SOB, Corbs, Sexton etc wouldn't have won this series, even against a sub par Aussie team.  

We have no strength in depth, as the Japan tour confirmed, and a Lions side with such a heavy bias towards one nation is an odd concept.  (Gatland could've let a Scot start instead of Tommy Bowe, without disrupting the team).

Shouldn't get carried away by any of this.

Japan tour showed nothing since almost an entire extra XV was left at home!

wales606 wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Some of us Welsh folk need to keep their feet on the turf, is all I'm saying.  A Welsh XV, minus SOB, Corbs, Sexton etc wouldn't have won this series, even against a sub par Aussie team.  

We have no strength in depth, as the Japan tour confirmed, and a Lions side with such a heavy bias towards one nation is an odd concept.  (Gatland could've let a Scot start instead of Tommy Bowe, without disrupting the team).

Shouldn't get carried away by any of this.

Japan tour showed nothing since almost an entire extra XV was left at home!

An English, Aussie, NZ, Safrican, French... fifth or sixth string team wouldn't have lost out there.

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:It's fair to say that too many of my fellow Welsh fans have been getting a little carried away since Saturday.  

The British and Irish Lions team (massively bolstered by Sean O'Brien), in the second half of the final test, finally blew away an under-strength Aussie 15 and a full strength Welsh side could probably compete "on their day" with anyone except New Zealand, but we're still as capable of losing away to Romania as we are of destroying England at home.  'tis the Welsh way and probably always will be.  

There is no strength in depth and talk of 'best ever 20 year old tight head' etc etc is inebriated club-talk at best. (Got bent in half by a semi-geriatric Duncan Jones).  Long way to go yet to prove any sort of consistency at test level.

How many Grandslams, Six Nations Championships, ten players in the test side of a winning Lions tours and RWC semi Finals do you need to "prove any sort of consistency at test level"...?

10 ? 20 ?

It isn't about how many Six Nations championships, how many Grandslams or how many players Wales had in the Lions team Maes, it is about beating all potential those teams that you are bound to meet in RWC finals and semi finals regularly.

Wales has not done that yet.

Casartelli wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Some of us Welsh folk need to keep their feet on the turf, is all I'm saying.  A Welsh XV, minus SOB, Corbs, Sexton etc wouldn't have won this series, even against a sub par Aussie team.  

We have no strength in depth, as the Japan tour confirmed, and a Lions side with such a heavy bias towards one nation is an odd concept.  (Gatland could've let a Scot start instead of Tommy Bowe, without disrupting the team).

Shouldn't get carried away by any of this.

Japan tour showed nothing since almost an entire extra XV was left at home!

An English, Aussie, NZ, Safrican, French... fifth or sixth string team wouldn't have lost out there.

Rubbish.

If they were being coached by McBride they would have had the same problem.

Some posters really underestimate Japan, it's pretty arrogant. Wales didn't deserve to beat Japan, but they did shoot themselves in the foot a fair few times, a similar strength team from any international country would have struggled, especially with weak coaches.

Japan won the pacific nations cup this year, but there wouldn't be as much uproar if we had lost away to Fiji or Tonga with a 3rd string team devoid of any experience in the XXIII or coaching box.

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:It's fair to say that too many of my fellow Welsh fans have been getting a little carried away since Saturday.  

The British and Irish Lions team (massively bolstered by Sean O'Brien), in the second half of the final test, finally blew away an under-strength Aussie 15 and a full strength Welsh side could probably compete "on their day" with anyone except New Zealand, but we're still as capable of losing away to Romania as we are of destroying England at home.  'tis the Welsh way and probably always will be.  

There is no strength in depth and talk of 'best ever 20 year old tight head' etc etc is inebriated club-talk at best. (Got bent in half by a semi-geriatric Duncan Jones).  Long way to go yet to prove any sort of consistency at test level.

How many Grandslams, Six Nations Championships, ten players in the test side of a winning Lions tours and RWC semi Finals do you need to "prove any sort of consistency at test level"...?

10 ? 20 ?

It isn't about how many Six Nations championships, how many Grandslams or how many players Wales had in the Lions team Maes, it is about beating all potential those teams that you are bound to meet in RWC finals and semi finals regularly.

Wales has not done that yet.

Wales has been consistently the best NH team since 2011 and consistently about 1-3pts off Australia and South Africa for the last few years.

If the WC was tomorrow then that would be a problem, but Wales has 2 years to turn those 1pt loses into wins. When they have managed that then anything can happen at the WC, when we have near home advantage.

NZ is the big challenge - but even if we don't knock them over before 2015, a one off WC game, anything can happen - just ask France.

Casartelli wrote:It's fair to say that too many of my fellow Welsh fans have been getting a little carried away since Saturday.  

The British and Irish Lions team (massively bolstered by Sean O'Brien), in the second half of the final test, finally blew away an under-strength Aussie 15 and a full strength Welsh side could probably compete "on their day" with anyone except New Zealand, but we're still as capable of losing away to Romania as we are of destroying England at home.  'tis the Welsh way and probably always will be.  

There is no strength in depth and talk of 'best ever 20 year old tight head' etc etc is inebriated club-talk at best. (Got bent in half by a semi-geriatric Duncan Jones).  Long way to go yet to prove any sort of consistency at test level.

Bluddy hell we have had no success since 1987 and when we are winning grand slams and helping win lions tours people are still negative. People are on a high s let them stay there for a while. we had no success for 15 years and no lion success in 16.
As for Samson I myself has said that for his AGE he is one of the best tight heads scrummager I have ever seen, he has the potential to go far and could be great for Wales one day, What's wrong with saying that?

I mean come on, to say we have no strength is depth either is ridiculous, we can always put out a strong 23 when people are available. We have player like Ryan Jones, Paul James, Justin Tipuric, Bradley Davies, Scott Williams, Ken Owens, Matthew Rees, Liam Williams, James Hook, Lee Byrne, Luke Charteris who can't even get into our 15 and sometimes 23 anymore. We have loads of talent coming through as well with the U20's success in the past 2 years on all championships.
Let people be happy and stop being negative in such a posotive time or British and welsh rugby  

Casartelli wrote:Some of us Welsh folk need to keep their feet on the turf, is all I'm saying.  A Welsh XV, minus SOB, Corbs, Sexton etc wouldn't have won this series, even against a sub par Aussie team.  

We have no strength in depth, as the Japan tour confirmed, and a Lions side with such a heavy bias towards one nation is an odd concept.  (Gatland could've let a Scot start instead of Tommy Bowe, without disrupting the team).

Shouldn't get carried away by any of this.

Also that's' not fair we had about 25 players who were absent, injured or rested.

Player like spratt, Emyr, Lou Reed, Pretorious, that's 18 year old srpeys player, James King, Baldwin or Navidi are no where near our 23 or even back ups

 We are in a great position and are ready to challenge for 2nd and 3rd place in the rankings - It's wonderful but we must not get carried away - I believe we have good strength in depth but we are capable of losing to England and Ireland in next years 6 Nations so lets enjoy the rightful optimism whilst proceeding with level heads and caution

wales606 wrote:

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:It's fair to say that too many of my fellow Welsh fans have been getting a little carried away since Saturday.  

The British and Irish Lions team (massively bolstered by Sean O'Brien), in the second half of the final test, finally blew away an under-strength Aussie 15 and a full strength Welsh side could probably compete "on their day" with anyone except New Zealand, but we're still as capable of losing away to Romania as we are of destroying England at home.  'tis the Welsh way and probably always will be.  

There is no strength in depth and talk of 'best ever 20 year old tight head' etc etc is inebriated club-talk at best. (Got bent in half by a semi-geriatric Duncan Jones).  Long way to go yet to prove any sort of consistency at test level.

How many Grandslams, Six Nations Championships, ten players in the test side of a winning Lions tours and RWC semi Finals do you need to "prove any sort of consistency at test level"...?

10 ? 20 ?

It isn't about how many Six Nations championships, how many Grandslams or how many players Wales had in the Lions team Maes, it is about beating all potential those teams that you are bound to meet in RWC finals and semi finals regularly.

Wales has not done that yet.

Wales has been consistently the best NH team since 2011 and consistently about 1-3pts off Australia and South Africa for the last few years.

If the WC was tomorrow then that would be a problem, but Wales has 2 years to turn those 1pt loses into wins. When they have managed that then anything can happen at the WC, when we have near home advantage.

NZ is the big challenge - but even if we don't knock them over before 2015, a one off WC game, anything can happen - just ask France.

Just remember SA and OZ have two years as well. We are only now shedding the effects of Pieter De Villiers. No team stands still, they all evolve with new players all the time.

RubyGuby wrote: We are in a great position and are ready to challenge for 2nd and 3rd place in the rankings - It's wonderful but we must not get carried away - I believe we have good strength in depth but we are capable of losing to England and Ireland in next years 6 Nations so lets enjoy the rightful optimism whilst proceeding with level heads and caution

Exactly Thankyou