Lets talk about Wales!

First topic message reminder :

We knew Wales can win European grand slams and championships, but the monkey on the back of the players was for them to win in the Southern hemisphere. In all fairness that has now been accomplished.

So many of them have played a huge part in this series, surely now Gatland and these players can go to the next level?

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts
11 George North
10
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5
4 Alun-Wyn Jones
3 Adam Jones
2 Richard Hibbard
1

It's quite incredible that all of these players have now started a test game and won in Australia. While Gethin Jenkins probably would of played some role had he stayed fit.

This could be a massive shot in the arm to these players and maybe a new golden era dawn for us!  

Its a joke of a group and i truly feel sorry for wales or australia.. Such a shame one of you wont make it out of the group stages

Pressure is on England, you are twice as good as us remember

Plus there's the added pressure of being the host nation...

Ok who would you bet on to get out of the group?

I would have to go england and aus. I am being deeply serious here dude. What about you. Say you have to put your mortgage on it

Say I had a mortgage to put on it, I'd have to go with England and Australia too. Wales are the only side of the three who've gone out at the group stage before (correct me if I'm wrong).

I just hope we both beat Aus. I genuinely mean that.

Its so annoying looking forward to this home world cup but realising how tough the group is and knowing we will lose a top team post groups

I think it's a bit soon to be betting. Hopefully Australia's spiral continues because I'd like to see Wales and England progress out of the group. If Gatland still has the big forwards at his disposal plus the likes of some promising players to come in then it should give Wales a good chance when you consider Gatland's credentials during the Lions tour when he had a large squad full of strong and experienced players.

it is too soon and with Wales you still dont know what you going get come November never mind two years time . i would like it to be England and Wales if honest .

Its not going to help for the spectacle if wales or england go out. It will be detrimental to the WC as well as just our own personal feelings.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:it is too soon and with Wales  you still dont know what you going get come November never mind two years time . i would like it to be England and Wales if honest .

I know that if we fail to go throught he group it will be because of injuries, the ref, or England getting away with murder in their games against the others.  

That's the thing with Wales, Jimmy, we're the most up-and-down side of the three. England and Australia have dips in form too, but their dips are never as low as ours, in recent years anyway.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's the thing with Wales, Jimmy, we're the most up-and-down side of the three. England and Australia have dips in form too, but their dips are never as low as ours, in recent years anyway.

And England's highs haven't been higher either. EDIT: at least in Europe anyway. Beating Australia in Australia and New Zealand at home were nice.

Winning the World Cup's a half-decent high, surely?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Winning the World Cup's a half-decent high, surely?

I don't count that as recent. I was thinking more post-2003, which is sort of an era for English rugby and a useful waypoint. English rugby dropped to it's worst point for 15+ years and we still were only 4the twice (so the low points not that low). But we only managed one win (non-GS) and a couple of 2nds (highs not THAT high). Final of a world cup (2007) doesn't mean much though as we only had to beat Australia and France in the knockouts and Samoa/Tonga in the pools.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:it is too soon and with Wales  you still dont know what you going get come November never mind two years time .

Wales seem to have a good edge in competitions with this current squad.. Since 2011 we made the last four in the RWC and won our other two championships.

Maybe the autumn internationals are just being used as friendlies to test players..?

We cap a lot more players in the autumn than in the winter/spring.

maestegmafia wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:it is too soon and with Wales  you still dont know what you going get come November never mind two years time .  

Wales seem to have a good edge in competitions with this current squad.. Since 2011 we made the last four in the RWC and won our other two championships.

Maybe the autumn internationals are just being used as friendlies to test players..?

We cap a lot more players in the autumn than in the winter/spring.

I would doubt that we're trying our best not to win these 'friendlies' Maes. And the higher number of caps in the autumn would likely be more to do with injuries than anything. Especially last autumn.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Winning the World Cup's a half-decent high, surely?

Yes but it was a devalued world cup. Anyway, let's not stray off topic, we are supposed to be talking about Wales.

 

Every time I read the title of this thread, I think of 'Let's Talk About Girls' by the Chocolate Watchband (and covered by the Undertones).

Just saying.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Every time I read the title of this thread, I think of 'Let's Talk About Girls' by the Chocolate Watchband (and covered by the Undertones).

Just saying.

i keep singing lets talk about us baby . lets talk about you and me

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Every time I read the title of this thread, I think of 'Let's Talk About Girls' by the Chocolate Watchband (and covered by the Undertones).

Just saying.

                i keep singing    lets talk about us baby   .  lets talk about you and me

jimmy, I mentioned that same song in the first page, got no response from it.  

just me and you then bill

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:it is too soon and with Wales  you still dont know what you going get come November never mind two years time .  

Wales seem to have a good edge in competitions with this current squad.. Since 2011 we made the last four in the RWC and won our other two championships.

Maybe the autumn internationals are just being used as friendlies to test players..?

We cap a lot more players in the autumn than in the winter/spring.

I would doubt that we're trying our best not to win these 'friendlies' Maes. And the higher number of caps in the autumn would likely be more to do with injuries than anything. Especially last autumn.

We certainly seem to do better when competing in a meaningful competition like the six nations or RWC, the players hit a higher gear.

Someone should tell the poor fans forking out for Autumn and Summer internationals that Wales aren't trying in these 'friendlies'.

Lets just check that thought:
In last 6 nations Wales beat Scotland, Italy, France and England and lost to Ireland - this is doing well
In the last world cup Wales beat Samoa, Namibia, Fiji and Ireland but lost to South Africa, France and Australia - this is doing well
In the last Autumn series Wales lost to Argentina, Samoa, New Zealand and Australia - this is not really trying.
The difference between not trying and doing well seems to be losing to Samoa in the AI rather beating them in the world cup.
Win or lose to Ireland and France is doing well.
Losing to Australia is both doing well and not trying
Losing to NZ and SA in the Autumn internationals is due to not trying.

I think Wales probably tend to do better playing lower ranked teams rather than higher ranked teams and sometimes beat and sometimes lose to those teams ranked roughly the same as them.

nganboy wrote:Lets just check that thought:
In last 6 nations Wales beat Scotland, Italy, France and England and lost to Ireland - this is doing well
In the last world cup Wales beat Samoa, Namibia, Fiji and Ireland but lost to South Africa, France and Australia - this is doing well
In the last Autumn series Wales lost to Argentina, Samoa, New Zealand and Australia - this is not really trying.
The difference between not trying and doing well seems to be losing to Samoa in the AI rather beating them in the world cup.
Win or lose to Ireland and France is doing well.
Losing to Australia is both doing well and not trying
Losing to NZ and SA in the Autumn internationals is due to not trying.

I think Wales probably tend to do better playing lower ranked teams rather than higher ranked teams and sometimes beat and sometimes lose to those teams ranked roughly the same as them.

Which equates to a semi final in the RWC and two consecutive six nations wins. As I said they are achieving more in actual championships than friendly test matches. Be good to push on and improve on that this season.

There is no such thing as a friendly test match.

Biltong wrote:There is no such thing as a friendly test match.

Unless you lose (don't try/have injuries/blood new players) it would seem.

I read a better one this morning, an Australian was commenting on their loss to NZ this past weekend, according to him Australia gifted NZ three tries, hence they actually won by one point.

Pure Gold.

Biltong wrote:I read a better one this morning, an Australian was commenting on their loss to NZ this past weekend, according to him Australia gifted NZ three tries, hence they actually won by one point.

Pure Gold.

Always look on the bright side of life:music:  

"In the last world cup Wales beat Samoa, Namibia, Fiji and Ireland but lost to South Africa, France and Australia - this is doing well"

no its not dude. getting to the semis was ok- but you lost 3 games. the teams you beat you were expected to anyway.

mystiroakey wrote:"In the last world cup Wales beat Samoa, Namibia, Fiji and Ireland but lost to South Africa, France and Australia - this is doing well"

no its not dude. getting to the semis was ok- but you lost 3 games. the teams you beat you were expected to anyway.

In the last world cup we didn't even do that, so surely we're on an upwards curve right now?  

I'm looking forward to having Gatland back with Wales, I think his influence on the team is underestimated, I mean, sure, they were playing the same gameplan in the last 6 nations, but how much did they mean it?! first coach to win a Lions series in 16 years? Wales the 6ns champions 2 years in a row (1 without Gats). Now it's time to take the next step and beat those SH giants like Japan and Samoa regularly  

mystiroakey wrote:"In the last world cup Wales beat Samoa, Namibia, Fiji and Ireland but lost to South Africa, France and Australia - this is doing well"

no its not dude. getting to the semis was ok- but you lost 3 games. the teams you beat you were expected to anyway.

He isn't Welsh.

Ok substitute 'you' with 'the welsh' dude.

It's also gives a bit of a false impression when people say we got to the semis, but we lost three games. We only really lost one game en route to the semis (and that South Africa game was one we should've won).

Yes the SA game was too close to call. You matched them with 14 men at the end.

However the point being the only decent team you seem to be able to in recent years is England..

France are way to inconsistent to be called a decent team by the way.

The welsh have a mental issue. They can turn it on v the English(because it matters so much in the heart- but you cant match similar teams without this extra dimension that you only seem to bring on against the english- The irish were very similar as well)

"I mean, sure, they were playing the same gameplan in the last 6 nations, but how much did they mean it?!"

dude the massive win v a very consistent and up and coming england team was better than any win you have had with gats at the helm..

What does gatland do?

You only get up for certain games when the passion is felt. Gats can't do this for you, The only ones that can do this are the players.

And by the way no disrespect to the aussies. But I could have coached the lions to a win this time around as could have you.

Basically Get a welsh coach in and the sky is your limit!

I don't think it's a matter of commitment or mental strength, I think it's that we're still quite limited in our gameplan. It's a game based on physicality (and intensity of physicality) and when the opposition can withstand that physicality, we don't have a plan B. We just keep ploughing on with plan A in the hope it'll work eventually.

It is very annoying as a welsh fan at the moment, you can see we can clearly match these guys for 70 minutes, but they seem to have something over us that puts us the wrong side of the result, a lucky bounce, a piece of magic or just some good old fashioned welsh capitulation. There's always a 5-10 minute period at least where we just cant live with them. Australia how ever many times its been in the last year, South Africa a couple of times now, NZ seem to deal with us pretty well in all fairness, but there's just something these guys can do better, I guess thats the 'top 2 inches' talk but no-one knows what it means...

Mysti, I'd suggest we can now safely say if we dont have this same desire for the aussies blood as well as you english, theres no hope in us getting a semi for anyone else, you lucky, lucky guys.  

 I think you may have took that a little more literally than I meant  

Its always been down to the players, guys liek Coombes made a big imapct for us this 6nations, sure hes not the biggest or greatest technically, but the man has heart and will go head first into everything 100% and I think that attitude rubbed off on some of his more illustrious (but lazier) friends in the pack and you could see them improving week on week.

Hopefully, this new young generation has the right mentallity, they've certainly experienced more success already than their predacessors ever did...

Do you think you have the squad to do this? (work on a plan b and c and have valid replacements to compete against the big boys)

The result in Japan was clearly abysmal after such a performance from the A team

 The result in Japan shouldnt be ignored, but it is something I'm glad happened, hoepfully its the kick the WRU needed to see that McBryde may be a decent forwards coach, but a man he is not who should have the power of selection. The whole series was a bit of a disaster, players picked who aren't even regional players yet, players from the u20s squad, players from the welsh premiership, the selection method for the series was terrible. As well as the 14 Lions gone, there was no real experience in the side except Dan Biggar (up until this 6nations hes been no more than a bit part player at this level) and Bradley Davies (Ryan Jones/Hook/Byrne/Jon Thomas/Powell/Gill/Rees/Owens/Charteris/Paul James - off the top of my head - all overlooked/injured), everyone else may aswell have been picked by throwing darts at fish. You could say some of those players were past their best/not that great but they have all had plenty of experience at this level and of playing at the top for their clubs.

Still, you wouldnt see any of the other top 5 nations sending 3rd teams there who would lose, and to me, that says more about our lack of ability at coaching level than playing level.

I've said it about our regions, until there's top level coaching in place they will struggle (aside from WRU/funding issues) and there's not exactly many top coaches about in Wales at all, its a bit grim. Gatland was brought in because of a lack of good welsh coaches and a desire for someone with fresh, professional ideas. People may complain about the current gameplan, but the effect Gatlands had on Welsh rugby since he's joined goes way deeper than that, and I think a lot of welsh folk forget where we were.....

So in essence, yes I believe we do have the talent and depth to challenge these teams with a plan b and c, its just getting everything into the right positions from the top down (WRU and fixtures outside of tests windows/ WRU vs regions funding/coaching experience at the regions/success at regional level - all included). I think its a lot closer than it has been before, but we're a bi-polar nation, so who knows how we'll fair in the autumn, let alone over the next 2 years!  

bit of a rant.

I think the top 5 are actually as close as they have ever been(in my lifetime anyway)

NZ deserve to be top, Then SA very deserved 2nd imo, then aus eng and wales are matched but not that far behind SA.

In regards to squads- That is something that you may be lacking in. But hey you have the opportunity to improve that.

If it was a gamble to leave Rob Howley in charge of the national side, it was even more of a gamble to leave McBryde in charge of a second-string national side. Has he ever been head coach before in his life? It was a dumb appointment.

Yeah, we've come a long way, and the fact we're competing in the 6nations regularly rather than yo-yoing between GS and 4/5th is a great start.

I'm just sick of saying we need to up our game and continue our NH success against the big 3  To be honest, I'd settle for beating Samoa/Agentina regularly without being paranoid they're going to turn us over every 3rd time.

The squad depth is improving certainly, now for a few tweaks to the gameplan, and world domination on your turf in a couple of years beating Aus/England in the group, SA in the quarters, demolishing the french in the semi (revenge!!!!!) and beating NZ in the final to get the monkey off our back and become the world champions.

....it could happen on our day!

just been on the other thread about bod gatland must be happy he can finally play fifteen Welsh men  

When has gatland ever picked 15 welshmen ?

mystiroakey wrote:When has gatland ever picked 15 welshmen ?

Throughout his career. It's not like we're the Barbarians, containing SA's, Kiwi's, Samoan's now is it? Or would that be someone else a lot closer to home?

I shouldn't have started this debate should I. Sorry I must be very bored.

But yes they are all english dude.. We ruled the world at one time- so we can take who we want when we want .