League Reboot

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:25 am

First topic message reminder :

Please register your interest should we press ahead and reboot the league.

This is also a good chance to air grievances with current rules and suggest new ones, as well as any innovations you have to make it better.

We may entirely ignore all suggestions, such is our wont.

Cherries
Gregers
Olly
Azzy
ZZZ
Nando (probably)
Afro
Hero
GSC
Trebs
sodhat

Need another 1 (or 3 or 5 or 7....)

Team Selection

Every team valued at 100m or below is available

Everybody bids for their preferred team

Maximum bid is 120m, Minimum 70m. Bids must also be at least TM value of the club

Any money left over from the 120m budget goes into your budget for a player draft

Results
Same as before

Voting
Same as before, however 1 good/bad point for each team required

TP Limit
Draft = no TP limit
Start of the league = £10m limit
Each week = £1m increase
End of season 1 = £19m TP limit (based on 10 teams, no cup weeks as we'd do that at the end)
End of season 2 = £28m

You could make it £12m > £21m > £30m if preferred?

This will change slightly depending on number of teams.

Injuries
AGREED AS 4 INJURIES PER WEEK

Do we want any form of transfers healing injuries?
NO

Whether to ditch U21 and nationality restrictions
AGREED TO DITCH BOTH

League structure - single league or not?
SINGLE LEAGUE

Cash loans (inc. implied in deals) being banned
NO CASH LOANS ALLOWED, ALL TRANSFERS MUST BE PAID UP FRONT

End of season loans when you have nothing to play for - how to stop these
NO LOANS ALLOWED EXCEPT EMERGENCY LOANS FOR GOALKEEPERS

Releases - same as before?
AGREED

Any squad limits?
22 MINIMUM, 30 MAXIMUM

Runner's Duties

Releases - Azzy
Injuries - Trebs
Posting tactics - Olly
Players within league - Afro
Results - sodhat
Lawyers - Trebs
Tables - sodhat
Fixtures/results list -Afro
Top scorers - Azzy
Premier League Prediction game - ZZZ

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 8:07 pm

Would transfering them remove the injury otherwise we're just limiting transfer again what we're trying to avoid

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 8:14 pm

A four week cycle is easy for the injuries person to manage, all this 1 random weekly, 2 long term stuff is harder to keep track of. Keep it simple, keep it safe. Injuries disappear if traded.

No nationalities.

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 8:44 pm

Wouldn't that make it easy to get around the 4 week by just going swapping with 3 people

Player A > B
Player B > C
Player C > A

then just go

Player A> C
Player B > A
Player C > B

then
Player A> A
Player B> B
Player C > C

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 8:50 pm

We could impliment a rule that stops that really, just if the player ends up back at club he got his injury, the injury still applies?

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:16 pm

How about a player traded due to injury not being allowed back to the club that traded him with said injury for a season.

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:46 pm

sodhat wrote:How about a player traded due to injury not being allowed back to the club that traded him with said injury for a season.

Done. Easy to remember, easy to track. Makes people do deals. Sorted.

by Trebs Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:49 pm

But it's difficult to prove a manager is trading 'due to injury' rather than for the sake of doing a good deal.

by GSC Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:53 pm

I agree with trebs tbh. Beginning to remember why we didnt bother with it last time

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:58 pm

Could just up usual injuries to 3?

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 10:01 pm

onlytreblewinners wrote:But it's difficult to prove a manager is trading 'due to injury' rather than for the sake of doing a good deal.

i dont see why that matters?

by Trebs Tue 16 Jul 2013, 10:12 pm

It's all just a headache. I may sell a player because it's a good deal, but be judged I did it due to the player being injured. I then can't re-sign said player several deals down the line.

Either 3/4 injuries, ideally from first XI (IMO) and injuries carry over between teams is the most pain free way of doing it.

by **Hero** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 10:14 pm

The other option is the old Furious one.

Less than 16 players : 1 injury
16-23 players: 2 injuries
24-29 players: 3 injuries
30+ players: 4 injuries

by **Hero** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 10:15 pm

onlytreblewinners wrote:It's all just a headache. I may sell a player because it's a good deal, but be judged I did it due to the player being injured. I then can't re-sign said player several deals down the line.

Either 3/4 injuries, ideally from first XI (IMO) and injuries carry over between teams is the most pain free way of doing it.

On the note of resigning, when I've been in leagues where this rule is done, it's only enforced for the duration of how long the original injury would have lasted for.

by Trebs Tue 16 Jul 2013, 10:16 pm

A point that raises is the squad limit rule. Especially as some of the starting squads contain a lot of players.

by Marky Wed 17 Jul 2013, 7:49 am

Are we finishing this season first or not? Still got a Premier League to finish and the majority of managers still partaking. Plus the cup.

If, for the second version of the league in a row, the option is to quit midway through Season 3 and start over because they can't be bothered to finish the season with the mess they made their team, then i'm out of the new one because there's no point planning TP's and building for Seasons 2 and 3 if there's no guarantee of it happening.

by Fan Gilhaus Wed 17 Jul 2013, 7:54 am

lads, I havent the time to start from scratch tbh, so will leave it, been fun again while I was on and will no doubt pop on from time to time

Good Luck!

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:01 am

How squads/teams are decided, and starting budgets = AGREED AS BIDDING ON TEAMS BETWEEN £70M AND £100M
How results are calculated = AGREED TO KEEP AS IT IS
Making sure feedback is actually useful and constructive = AGREED IN THIS THREAD
TP limit - yes or no = AGREED ON PAGE 5 OF THIS THREAD
Injuries
Whether to ditch U21 and nationality restrictions
League structure - single league or not?
Cash loans (inc. implied in deals) being banned
End of season loans when you have nothing to play for - how to stop these
Releases - same as before?
Any squad limits?

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:02 am

And how to finish the Premier League season? I am working on the assumption that the Championship is dead on the floor, so it is just the Prem that needs finishing

by Guest Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:04 am

Let's start with that, then get everyone to post their feelings on injuries

by sodhat Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:06 am

BigFellasAfro wrote:And how to finish the Premier League season? I am working on the assumption that the Championship is dead on the floor, so it is just the Prem that needs finishing

Straight knockout cup with a random, unseeded, draw?

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:13 am

I quite like the injuries idea of 1 out for 1 week, another for 2 weeks, another for 3, another for 4. Drawn in a cycle of every 4 weeks, and if the player is sold, the magic sponge means they are no longer injured.

Anyone remember my idea for this before? I was happy to take running that p[art on.

3 injuries. 1, 2 & 3 weeks. Once the first injury expires one is drawn from the previous starting line up with a random length from 1, 2 or 3 weeks. Once the second expires one is drawn from the squad with a random length. Third expires drawn from previous starting line up, forth from squad & so on.

This should put more emphasis on having a better overall squad.
If the "Healing" rule is back then is will also encourage more deals. Although Im not a fan of the healing rule, I reckon it will cause problems e.g
Agreeing to sell back & not.
Removes having the knowledge of knowing your oppositions injuries, If my team played Soddy's in 2 weeks & I would know two of his players wouldn't be available for selection. The healing rule would take that knowledge away.
Manages could swap players in a P/E deal then swap back week later.
In my opinion the Healing Rule would force us to make more rules to compensate.

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:20 am

I think the problem is not apathy towards finishing the season and towards the teams, its that the votes are so thin on the ground and the results so far don't really carry much weight because of the lack of the votes, I'm not sure what anyone gains from finishing the season. Whoever wins is going to be down to chance rather than any skill

by Guest Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:27 am

There are two sides to injuries:

1 - keep them the same
2 - bring in longer-term injuries

With 1, people for some reason want to increase the number of injuries we get, which I find odd. We've never had a problem with injuries before have we? I'd be totally against any injuries being guaranteed from your first XI, especially in the early stages of the league when our squads aren't that great.

With 2, some people may trade back. But I don't think it will be as many as anticipated, and I do think if you keep it simple - a 4 week cycle - then it's easy for the injuries person to manage.

I'd be in favour of:

Longer-term injuries
Not all from first XI
Injuries heal when transferred (not the 1/2 week injuries though, only the 3/4 week ones)

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:33 am

I am in favour of long term injuries and in favour of an increased number as I think we need to encourage more of a squad game. It also brings tactics more into play early on when teams will have clear weaknesses.

I'm not a fan of them healing on transfer. I think the principle to encourage transfers is fine, but I agree with Trebs that it will just result in players moving back and forth to get around it. I think if you're injured, you're injured whoever you play for

by sodhat Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:34 am

I'm on board with Azzy's proposition; however I would think about upping the amount of 1/2 week injuries to a total of three so there is more tangible effect on the squad.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:44 am

Im with Afro.

Afro wrote:I think we need to encourage more of a squad game. It also brings tactics more into play early on when teams will have clear weaknesses.

I said basically the same in different manor.

No Healing Rule. It just eliminates trying to make it more of a squad game. People will argue. Part Ex deals like I said above. It means having to add more rules to stop the silly little argument it will cause for just because of putting one in.

by Guest Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:45 am

What about this then:

Week 1 draw:
2x 1 week injuries
1x 2 week injury
1x 3 week injury (can be traded to heal)
1x 4 week injury (can be traded to heal)

Week 2 draw:
2x 1 week injuries

Week 3 draw:
2x 1 week injuries
1x 2 week injury

Week 4 draw:
2x 1 week injuries

Week 5 draw:
2x 1 week injuries
1x 2 week injury
1x 3 week injury (can be traded to heal)
1x 4 week injury (can be traded to heal)

etc

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:50 am

I can guarantee I will lose track of that, even if no one else will.

I would just do the four weekly draw with 1 x 1week, 1 x 2 week, 1 x 3 week and 1 x 4 week. Easier to track then.

Whether you want to bring healing by transfer in can be another discussion.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:52 am

I would also support my injury idea. 1 staring line up, 1 squad and alternate. It levels the playing field as EVERYONE will have one from starting XI that they will need a good squad to cope. Alternate so its not injuries always knocking first team starters out. With 1, 2 & 3 weeks injuries everyone will have first expired being starting XI, second expired squad.

If anyone of the runner wants to put together a set of rules for "Healing Injuries" feel free to do that. If they look good & make sense I may show support for it. Currently I do not, I can see plenty of arguments with it.

by sodhat Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:52 am

How about you can heal one injury each by transfer...or does that complicate matters?

I'd say scrap the healing rule. Longer injuries are part of the real life game.

by Fernando Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:56 am

Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

by sodhat Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:58 am

Fernando wrote:Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Wed 17 Jul 2013, 9:59 am

sodhat wrote:How about you can heal one injury each by transfer...or does that complicate matters?

I'd say scrap the healing rule. Longer injuries are part of the real life game.

Id say it would complicate. You would still ahve to draw up rules to stop loopholes being exposed.

Soddy's team plays me in two weeks. I have 2 injures for 2 & 3 weeks so you know I have 2 players out of selection. Until I transfer to Afro, then transfer back week after.
You may not have done the same so you still have same two injuries. Makes me in better shape for the match & preparing tactics.

by Guest Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:00 am

sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?

No, because we're restricting the inflow of cash, so no-one will be able to afford new players from TM.

by Fernando Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:00 am

sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?

Why would you buy someone you can't play for 4 weeks

by Gregers Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:00 am

What about the comments I made on injuries a few weeks ago?

4 injuries per week, can play one of them for a maximum of 45 minutes. If you choose to play another for 45 minutes then they have a 1/2 chance of being injured again the next week,

Promotes squad use and tactical use of substitutes

by Guest Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:00 am

Either we have more cash and no healing, or less cash and healing. I'd favour the lower cash and healing myself.

by Gregers Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:01 am

Or 3 injuries per week, 1 can play for 45 minutes. If that one plays for longer than 45 minutes then 1/2 chance of being injured again the following week

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:01 am

Soddy wrote:Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?

Raise the squad limit to 32 as well. With With 3/4 players always injured it would means you still have a minimum of 28 available to pick 18 for a match day.

Thats more than enough IMO. If you dont build a all round good squad thats your fault.

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:02 am

Fernando wrote:
sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?
Why would you buy someone you can't play for 4 weeks

I think Sod's point is not that someone would buy, but more that if someone is definately out for 4 weeks, you will buy someone to cover them

by GSC Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:04 am

Why not just one weekly injury, and every 3 week's we draw 2 3 week injury. Simples

by Guest Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:04 am

Gregers wrote:What about the comments I made on injuries a few weeks ago?

4 injuries per week, can play one of them for a maximum of 45 minutes. If you choose to play another for 45 minutes then they have a 1/2 chance of being injured again the next week,

Promotes squad use and tactical use of substitutes

That complicates things enormously for the people doing the injuries, and also your own tactics need more work / scrutiny.

Let's just say 1x 1 week, 1x 2 weeks, 1x 3 weeks, 1x4 weeks.

So in week 1 we have 4 injuries, week 2 we have 3 injuries, week 3 you have 2 injuries, and by week 4 you only have 1 injury left.

Do people really fancy that? Aren't we changing this for the sake of changing it?

by sodhat Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:04 am

BigFellasAfro wrote:
Fernando wrote:
sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?
Why would you buy someone you can't play for 4 weeks

I think Sod's point is not that someone would buy, but more that if someone is definately out for 4 weeks, you will buy someone to cover them

We need an "over their head" smiley.

by Gregers Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:06 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
Gregers wrote:What about the comments I made on injuries a few weeks ago?

4 injuries per week, can play one of them for a maximum of 45 minutes. If you choose to play another for 45 minutes then they have a 1/2 chance of being injured again the next week,

Promotes squad use and tactical use of substitutes
That complicates things enormously for the people doing the injuries, and also your own tactics need more work / scrutiny.

Let's just say 1x 1 week, 1x 2 weeks, 1x 3 weeks, 1x4 weeks.

So in week 1 we have 4 injuries, week 2 we have 3 injuries, week 3 you have 2 injuries, and by week 4 you only have 1 injury left.

Do people really fancy that? Aren't we changing this for the sake of changing it?

Im all for having more work to do on tactics, very much against copy and pasting them every week

Having the option to play an injured player in a big match but having to weigh up them potentially being out again the next week is something i feel would bring a lot to the game

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:08 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
Gregers wrote:What about the comments I made on injuries a few weeks ago?

4 injuries per week, can play one of them for a maximum of 45 minutes. If you choose to play another for 45 minutes then they have a 1/2 chance of being injured again the next week,

Promotes squad use and tactical use of substitutes
That complicates things enormously for the people doing the injuries, and also your own tactics need more work / scrutiny.

Let's just say 1x 1 week, 1x 2 weeks, 1x 3 weeks, 1x4 weeks.

So in week 1 we have 4 injuries, week 2 we have 3 injuries, week 3 you have 2 injuries, and by week 4 you only have 1 injury left.

Do people really fancy that? Aren't we changing this for the sake of changing it?

I think changing it to encourage a bit more about the squad and not just having a strong starting XI.

I would favour this option as it extends the injuries a bit more without overcomplicating it. Imagine having to explain the other systems to CF if he ever took a team

by sodhat Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:09 am

Maybe we can just change the name of the league to the "No CF Club"?

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:09 am

sodhat wrote:Maybe we can just change the name of the league to the "No CF Club"?

Do you think he would get it?

by **Afro** Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:10 am

Sorry, forgot to put LOL at the end of my post picard

by Fernando Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:11 am

sodhat wrote:
BigFellasAfro wrote:
Fernando wrote:
sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:Then your just stopping potential transfers Soddy, no one will want injured players if they out for 4 weeks and can't be healed

Or are we raising potential transfers as people look for replacements for their injured players?
Why would you buy someone you can't play for 4 weeks

I think Sod's point is not that someone would buy, but more that if someone is definately out for 4 weeks, you will buy someone to cover them

We need an "over their head" smiley.

im telling you now this isn't going to work with out transfers clearing them, everyone generally has cover for that position most have 4fb's 4 cb's a load of midfielders and forwards in their squad except goalkeepers so their not going to need to go out and buy people realistically.

there is nothing wrong with the current system just up the number to 3-4 a week.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Wed 17 Jul 2013, 10:12 am

I vote: Keep the current system

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