Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

Sean Doyle stood out in the pack, I thought that Niall Annett and Kyle McCall both did well too and will be options in the Pro12 which is good. Chris Farrell was our best back, making yards every time he touched the ball, but he looked more dangerous at 13 outside Luke Marshall in the second half than inside Payne at 13.

Payne went very well. He's bulked up a wee bit and is looking strong in contact -hoping to move to centre, maybe. He ran very good angles and what little good ball came our way in the first half he looked dangerous with. The problem is that while Nelson, McIlwaine and Ricky Andrew all did ok for the 40 minutes each of them had (McIlwaine was on the wing) none of them look ready to step up as our first choice fullback in the big games.

Even if Payne comes to be regarded as our best 13 there is a much, much smaller drop off in quality between him and the likes of Darren Cave and Chris Farrell than him and the rest of our fullbacks. I would like to see the three guys mentioned above get a good bit of gametime in the Pro12 but come the big games in both the league and Europe we really need Jared Payne to be playing 15 as his main position so I'd say he'll only get the odd game at centre this year.

James McKinney stood out for all the wrong reasons. Couldn't catch a cold and all those dropped balls and knock-ons killed our momentum, a lot. Hopefully thats just a one-off.

And Mike McComish was his usual fairly anonymous self. Hopefully we don't have to rely on him and can keep the rest of our backrows fit.

Ian Porter looked a much better player than Michael Heaney so want to see more of him. I was very disappointed he wasn't given more of a chance in his first spell at Ulster. He is (was?) a very high-percentage goal kicker too.

Sean Doyle was looking excellent for us at the beginning of last season before his long term injury. If he returns to that form we will have excellent options at 7.

Notch wrote:Sean Doyle stood out in the pack, I thought that Niall Annett and Kyle McCall both did well too and will be options in the Pro12 which is good. Chris Farrell was our best back, making yards every time he touched the ball, but he looked more dangerous at 13 outside Luke Marshall in the second half than inside Payne at 13.

Payne went very well. He's bulked up a wee bit and is looking strong in contact -hoping to move to centre, maybe. He ran very good angles and what little good ball came our way in the first half he looked dangerous with. The problem is that while Nelson, McIlwaine and Ricky Andrew all did ok for the 40 minutes each of them had (McIlwaine was on the wing) none of them look ready to step up as our first choice fullback in the big games.

Even if Payne comes to be regarded as our best 13 there is a much, much smaller drop off in quality between him and the likes of Darren Cave and Chris Farrell than him and the rest of our fullbacks. I would like to see the three guys mentioned above get a good bit of gametime in the Pro12 but come the big games in both the league and Europe we really need Jared Payne to be playing 15 as his main position so I'd say he'll only get the odd game at centre this year.

Do you see Chris Farrell as a 13 rather than a 12 then? A Marshall-Farrell axis could be very promising. That is forgetting Stuart of course, I do not know where he will fit in. He seems too good right now to be a bench player. Though having both he and Marshall fighting it out for the 12 shirt may be what brings out the best in both.

You are completely right about Payne and his position. If he were to move to 13, where we have great quality and depth, who would be our best option to start 15? D'Arcy? Nelson? Andrew?

Artful_Dodger wrote:Sean Doyle was looking excellent for us at the beginning of last season before his long term injury.  If he returns to that form we will have excellent options at 7.

Doyle is IQ isn't he?

Notch did McKinney not kick well?

I think D'Arcy has gone back to Manly.

Really? I didn't know that. I did forget that Stuart does play 15 as well, so he would probably be next in line there.

Either way, don't we have some fantastic depth at our disposal in our back line?

I'm pretty sure Darcy is gone although I'm not sure where.

Our back line could be very exciting indeed if they all fulfil their potential.

To be fair Mrs p I'd go back to manly as well if I could...

Hmmmmm!

 

Is there a capital missing there WilliG or are you having a bit of an identity crisis?

Adam D'Arcy has made his way back to Australia, due to the number of young guys at fullback I imagine. His contract was not renewed.

I think Peter Nelson is the best option Rory and I think he will develop into a really good player- but right now there is no way I would be happy with any of those guys starting 15 in a Heineken Cup match. With our first XV out there are no real weaknesses but if we had to start Nelson or McIlwaine at 15 it would be a weakness that a top side could exploit. If Payne was injured, I would move Craig Gilroy into 15 for big games whilst Nelson continues to develop in the Pro12.

Willy, McKinney kicked three easy conversions- all but one of our kickable penalties we put into the corner to practice lineout moves so he didn't get a chance to showcase his place kicking. In open play he showed glimpses of quality- really good pop pass for the first try for instance- but also made some very poor unforced errors which killed our momentum quite a few times. It was a slippery, greasy ball but Leinsters handling was markedly better than ours in the exact same conditions. Some of the balls he dropped were terrible, and he wasn't helped by some wayward passing from Michael Heaney. We were relatively rusty in the half-backs. However I believe he's a better player than he showed and he will be a good backup once he settles in.

Once Luke Marshall came on, he offered a really good second kicking option and had two very good kicks from hand to pin Leinster back at the end. Thats why I think Chris Farrell needs to be 13 not 12- Luke Marshall, Stuart Olding and Paddy Wallace (who is out injured until November/December) are all good kickers from hand. Farrell isn't that kind of player, he is power runner- the kind we don't have many of in Ireland across the backs. I think that for the way we play having a second playmaker/kicking option at 12 is better than a more straight forward hard running 12 and we're better using Farrell as a strike runner in wider channels.

Luke Marshall is exciting because he has a blend of strength, skill and game awareness. A good footballer and a hard running 12 all in one package. He just needs to work on his decision making (which was good last night).

As you know I am a huge fan of Luke. I think the decision making will come with experience, though he is at least very aware of the options around him for the most part. For Ireland every time he made a break, he checked his options. We know of a certain centre in particular who totally neglects his options, if he were doing that then there would be a problem.

Do you think Chris Farrell has test class potential? Or is it too early to tell? I always enjoyed watching him for the U20s. At first I didn't see what the hype was about, but the last few games I saw him play he really was fantastic. Big running option, but with very silky hands to go with it.

Either way, I see the centres in Ireland coming from Ulster. We have a lot of talented options there. Maybe that is my bias speaking though.

Is Farrell going to get many opportunities this season? As far as I know he isn't a fully contracted player for Ulster? I am not sure where he will be in the pecking order for 13. Cave, Payne, Bowe, Olding, Marshall and Allen are all options there.

Farrell was ahead of Olding at the start of last season and started our Pro 12 campaign before injury. He is obviously rated but the fact is he possesses physical attributes no other young player in Ireland has.

Thought Reid did a great impression of a turnstile for the first try conceded.. where was the backrow help from the scrum for the kid mcgrath for the second try, you can't expect a small scrum half to stop williams from 5 metres out on his own (though maybe the kid could have committed early and gone for his ankles).  The last try was well worked by Ulster, Leinster were stretched left and right... smart play to take the quick tap, then exploited the hint of space outside to prompt leinster to overcommit their drift and picked the hole inside, well played.
I can see Leinster having the famous slow start again this season, losing 3 of their first 4/5 games and the press getting on o'connor's back early doors.
Ulster look good.

Farrell really is a man mountain. Shane Horgan-esque.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/999811_509547845790986_1103442370_n.jpg

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Thought Reid did a great impression of a turnstile for the first try conceded.. where was the backrow help from the scrum for the kid mcgrath for the second try, you can't expect a small scrum half to stop williams from 5 metres out on his own (though maybe the kid could have committed early and gone for his ankles).  The last try was well worked by Ulster, Leinster were stretched left and right... smart play to take the quick tap, then exploited the hint of space outside to prompt leinster to overcommit their drift and picked the hole inside, well played.
I can see Leinster having the famous slow start again this season, losing 3 of their first 4/5 games and the press getting on o'connor's back early doors.
Ulster look good.

Harpin on Rugby made the point that Reid and Gopperth made the decision to go for the choke tackle; a very poor one as keeping the player upright isn't very useful if he's immediately driven under the posts...

It would have been a good move if it worked...maybe they underestimated how strong pain is?

I think though that Payne hit that ball so flat and late the defenders didn't get much chance to get a good body position... he's some player is Mr Payne.

The drive for paynes try came from Doyle and latterly scholes

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Thought Reid did a great impression of a turnstile for the first try conceded.. where was the backrow help from the scrum for the kid mcgrath for the second try, you can't expect a small scrum half to stop williams from 5 metres out on his own (though maybe the kid could have committed early and gone for his ankles).  The last try was well worked by Ulster, Leinster were stretched left and right... smart play to take the quick tap, then exploited the hint of space outside to prompt leinster to overcommit their drift and picked the hole inside, well played.
I can see Leinster having the famous slow start again this season, losing 3 of their first 4/5 games and the press getting on o'connor's back early doors.
Ulster look good.

I thought Reid and Macken showed great improvement from this time last year. Not convinced (yet) by Reid's defence, but better than it was.

The bold bit mystifies me though.

I don't think you can judge how good Leinster's start will be from that display.

1/ Ulster looked marginally the better side.
2/ They should have done as they had a better side out with starters like Payne and Williams
3/ They won marginally at the end. (so the result was about right given the teams and performance on the day)

I reckon if Gopperth had stayed on the result could well have been different.

Both sides looked better than you would have expected given the teams. Both defences were excellent overall. Both sides looked very commited for a friendly.

My point is that you can judge feck all on that game, given how early in the season it is and the fact that very few 1st teamers were on show. Not a single player in that Leinster side will start a HC game, barring injury. The closest would be Gopperth and Ruddock.

While I would agree about not being able to predict much from this game, I would add:

4) Leinster seemed more interested in points and winning. They kicked their penalties at the uprights, Ulster kicked for a lineout every time except, I think, for one shot at goal in the second half. There may have been a second.

Don Alfonso wrote:While I would agree about not being able to predict much from this game, I would add:

4) Leinster seemed more interested in points and winning. They kicked their penalties at the uprights, Ulster kicked for a lineout every time except, I think, for one shot at goal in the second half. There may have been a second.

I agree that Ulster kicked more for the corners than the posts. It may not have been because Leinster were "more interested in winning" could just be that both sides wanted to work on different things. While everyone enjoys winning, a pre season friendly is more about the work done than the result.

I think it was a great workout for both sides and hopefully they both learned whatever it was they were trying to. Hope there were no injuries for either side. Luke McGrath was hauled off with what looked like it could be a dodgy arm.

With a new coach in place, Leinster would have been looking to learn what works. Perhaps they wanted their defence tested?

Perhaps.

For what it's worth, I thought that Luke Marshall was head and shoulders above everyone else that took the pitch. Then probably Gopperth and Tuohy.

Marshall is class ok. There is another 1st teamer that Ulster had out. (Tuohy also. Jaysus yis nearly started yer HC team  )Was happy that we kept him out a couple of times close to the line.

I was happy with Gopperth. "Cattle" Marsh was a fair step down, understandably as he has only a single year in the Academy behind him.

He looked quite unfit a year ago. But now has the experience of starting a B&I cup final and has come on a lot.

Anyway. Sorry lads. This is the Ulster thread. I'll leave you to it as I am dragging it off topic.

Ah nae worries. Not much else to discuss bar the Leinster game.

rodders wrote:It would have been a good move if it worked...maybe they underestimated how strong pain is?

I think though that Payne hit that ball so flat and late the defenders didn't get much chance to get a good body position... he's some player is Mr Payne.

He is, but Sean Doyle made that try. Great drive. I was quite impressed with Doyle. Agree with Jen that the result of this game indicates very little in the grand scheme of things.

Any highlights of the game?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23825521

Quick fire questions with Mark Anscombe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxSUdnDIGA&feature=youtu.be

Even in a laid back fun little interview. Anscombe gives incredibly little away.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Even in a laid back fun little interview.  Anscombe gives incredibly little away.

I read your comment, Dodge, and then watched the interview, and laughed the whole way through.

He gives approximately two straight answers - his middle name is Stephen, and he prefers tracksuits to suits.

Is it just me or does his voice waver a bit when he talks about winning the 2011 JWC with his son in Italy?

Don Alfonso wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Even in a laid back fun little interview.  Anscombe gives incredibly little away.

I read your comment, Dodge, and then watched the interview, and laughed the whole way through.

He gives approximately two straight answers - his middle name is Stephen, and he prefers tracksuits to suits.

Is it just me or does his voice waver a bit when he talks about winning the 2011 JWC with his son in Italy?

His son Gareth was in the Chiefs starting team which won the Super Rugby final a couple of weeks back, must be a very proud man.

We know where Adam D'Arcy is off now.....to the Championship with Bristol.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23897527

Glad he's still got the opportunity to play for someone. Flaky player, but gave his all.

Can't wait for the start of the season now even if my work schedule for the next months means I wont see any of it live. Side to play leciester tomorrow is up btw
Ulster: J Payne; A Trimble, L Marshall, C Farrell, D McIlwaine; J McKinney, P Marshall; T Court, R Herring, R Lutton; J Muller (captain), D Tuohy; R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson.

Replacements: C Black, N Annett, D Fitzpatrick, A O'Connor, C Joyce, L Stevenson, M McComish, S Doyle, I Porter, P Jackson, M Allen, R Andrew

Hells bells that is a serious looking side.

Really pleased that D'Arcy has a contract. I liked him.

I also got the impression that he and Payne did not see eye to eye. Might be imagining things but ...

Yeah Rodders good side it's getting to the time to ramp it up and get guys gametime before the season now I guess.

For those who haven't seen the score was Leicester 30-10 Ulster disspointing defeat but still pre season is all about getting match sharp

neilthom7 wrote:For those who haven't seen the score was Leicester 30-10 Ulster disspointing defeat but still pre season is all about getting match sharp

https://twitter.com/tobyflood/status/373851556472713216/photo/1

What happened him? I didn't see the match

He was injured about 15 minutes in.

Ah I hope he is ok never nice to see injuries especially in the facial regions

So can anyone tell me who played well in the Tigers game? Any positives?

The Flood of concern over Toby is overwhelming. So I'm here to express all due gratitude.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So can anyone tell me who played well in the Tigers game?  Any positives?

The back 3 were very good by all account but we kept making errors in the Tigers 22. From listening to the 2nd half commentary on BBC Radio Leicester. Trimble had a very good game.

Any idea how Luke Marshall and Chris Farrell played together?

Plus are there any highlights?

For anyone thats been following this horrible story....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23943642