Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

On the UAFC forum, they're saying Olding is out with concussion and Cave trained with Ulster.

Possible Cave-Payne partnership would be interesting. All will be revealed tomorrow.

Ulster XV and replacements to face the Scarlets, RaboDirect PRO12, Saturday 2nd November (kick off 18:30);

(15-9): J Payne (Captain), A Trimble, D Cave, C Farell, M Allen, R Pienaar, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, J Afoa, L Stevenson, N McComb, R Diack, R Wilson, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): N Annett, K McCall, R Lutton, M McComish, S Doyle, J McKinney, R Andrew, D McIlwaine.

Roger Wilson is shoe-horned into that backrow at openside, but its a good enough side.

It's so frustrating Olding and Henderson are injured because they would be certainties to start this game in their preferred positions if fit.

 Go, go go.  
 Go, Tommy Bowe, Bowe, Bowe  
 Tommy be good  

My five year old came up with this while watching strictly come dancing the other day as they were playing "Johnny be good"
Is this a regular at Ravenhill or is she a musical genius?

Sadly we are a backward people. Its a miracle we can actually get 75% of the crowd to sing SUFTUM. The other 25% look really awkwardly at the people beside them like they are being embarrassed.

Any attempt at attempting a new song would go down like a lead ballon tied onto an elephant, dropped from a jumbo jet.

Clive - we started a sub-thread on the Glasgow and Edinburgh boards about the fact that Scottish rugby fans cannot sing for nuts and have no funny chants, unlike the football fans that populate Glasgow.
 
At least you have SUFTUM. The best we could come up with was:
 
He'll scrum,
He'll score,
He'll eat your labrador,
Ryan Grant,
Ryan Graaaaant.

Some general updates

There was a Welsh commentator daying Olding refused to play 10.
Complete and utter nonsense. He was selected at 10 on Tuesday but a later scan revealed possible concussion so he didn't play.

It likes like the good Doctor is on the prowl for 5 players for next year
LH, TH, Lock, Back row, 10

Whist getting players signed up for next year is progressing very well we only have 1 Prop signed for next year - Callum Black.
Now don't get me wrong I would expect McAllister, Court, Fitzpatrick, Lutton, McCall to be formalitites but even so.

Signing a LH is an interesting one - does this mean McAllister to TH will be revived?
Then again a TH as well - replacement for Afoa obviously
I have to say  Macklin and Ross are not players I hold much hope out for

Lock is obviously a replacement for Muller and I would expect to be a marquee signing.
McComb showed on saturday he simply is not good enough and only has a contract to make up the numbers.
The Academy situation is as follow:
O'Connor is steady/ok but needs to kick on or he will just be a fringe player.
Simpson looks good but to be honest doesn't seem to have much between the ears
Donnan is the youngest of the lot and the best of the lot. This kid looks the real deal

Backrow - not heard which position but it is beginning to look like Doyle has not developed as hoped. I would suggest a 6/8. Probably the other marque signing.

10 - is a backup for Jackson so that Pienaer doesn't have to play there. McKinney like O'Connor before him is not considered good enough.

Now at least 2 and probably 3 of those 5 players will need to be IQ

How is Caldwell going at Bath? Any chance of him returning?

Steenson from Exeter? Willie Faloon? IHumph?

Is Muller definitely retiring? I'm guessing the prognosis for Ferris isn't good?

Caldwell, Faloon, IHumph all have extended contracts with their respective clubs - you can count them all out.

Steenson I dont know but I think is unlikely

Muller is retiring - 99% certain
Ferris I would not assume the worst - the new guy will be in addition.

2nd Row options next year will be, I think, (New Signing), Tuohy, Henderson (pt), Stevenson, Donnan (being slowly introduced) - McComb if desperate

Back row - (New Signing), Diack, Wilson, Williams, Henderson (pt), Henry, Ferris (if fit), Joyce (being slowly introduced) - McCormish if desperate

To be honest if Ferris comes back and is fit for anything like a regular time Henderson will be playing 2nd row

Actually you can scrap Steenson as well.

He was treated badly by the old regime and why would he come back to play 2nd fiddle to Jackson.

I pretty certain he has signed up for next year anyway

Caldwell Faloon and Humphries seem to have been unlucky with injuries since they left

Would Steenson want to come back and have a crack at getting into the Irish squad? His games improved massively in the last few years, consistent from the tee and seems to be making better decisions too and a real threat at times with ball in hand.

He would not get a crack at the Irish squad though - that ships has sailed.

Ulster are just looking for a decent backup to Jackson not a first teamer.

geoff998rugby wrote:
Ulster are just looking for a decent backup to Jackson not a first teamer.

JJ or Madigan then? ......

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Ulster are just looking for a decent backup to Jackson not a first teamer.

JJ or Madigan then? ......

But would they be an improvement on McKinney or OConnor

Donnan has a younger brother by all accounts as well I thought I heard somewhere who was decent. We need Deccie Fitz and Lutton to maintain their fitness to give us a decent footing at TH.

I can only assume that Doyle isn't doing it in training because from the little I have seen of both he and McComish this season the former is a massive step up in quality

Doyle not starting against Scarlets when we had no other 7 speaks volume - the club seem undewhelmed by him.

Remember we have lost Faloon and Birch in the same position.
It is my belief we will not bother with another out and out 7 and will be looking for a 6/7 instead - ready made for a Saffer

Wouldn't mind another big signing in the backrow but that could potentially mean 3 NIQs in the back five of the pack with Wilson, Henry, henderson, Tuohy, Diack competing for a couple of spots.

All supposition at this stage. Trust in humph I say

It would mean 3 in the back five of the pack - but by the same token there will be none or at most 1 in the rest of the team. Even then I believe the 1 would be a player who could be IQ through residency in the future.

The fact is Henderson apart we are not getting the quality required coming through 4 to 8.  Joyce and Doonan appear to be the only two who are close

McLaughlin is making some great improvements in the youth area but it will take a couple of more years to bare fruit

Also the reality of internationals, injuries would mean plenty of game for all.

What about anscombe Geoff? Saw a rumour he would get another 2 years. Any whispers? I would welcome it I have to say

Pienaar on the bench forthe boks. Wish they would just rest him but I'm delighted he isn't starting

Standulstermen wrote:What about anscombe Geoff? Saw a rumour he would get another 2 years. Any whispers? I would welcome it I have to say

And what about getting in Anscombe junior?Hes signed with the Chiefs until the end of the next Super Rugby season, would facilitate Payne moving to outside centre and Jackson going away with Ireland and he'd offer another kicking option

He is actually in Belfast at the minute Marty. Just visiting. Read an article from John Kirwan were he says he got it wrong in letting him go so it looks like there will be no shortage of takers for him back in NZ

Standulstermen wrote:He is actually in Belfast at the minute Marty. Just visiting. Read an article from John Kirwan were he says he got it wrong in letting him go so it looks like there will be no shortage of takers for him back in NZ

Seen the article too thats how I knew he'd be available didn't know he was in town though, hopefully a meeting will happen while hes hear at least to discuss the possibility

Its a shame about Doyle, I thought he looked very good before the long term injury.

Standulstermen wrote:What about anscombe Geoff? Saw a rumour he would get another 2 years. Any whispers? I would welcome it I have to say

Nothing definite but the word seems to be that he is probably going to get an extension.
If at the end of Janaury we are in the HC QF's and in the top 4 of the Rabo I think it would be a near certainty

We should be targeting 5 wins in e next 5 games with a couple of BP wins in there to boot. Get that and we will be well on the way

Absolutely no excuse for losing any of the next 5 games - this is our opportunity to get ahead of the game in both competitions

Need a cushion before we hit a set of harder fixtures

geoff998rugby wrote:

Backrow - not heard which position but it is beginning to look like Doyle has not developed as hoped. I would suggest a 6/8. Probably the other marque signing.

I think Copeland fits the bill prefect there, may have to pay to get him released a year early from his Contract.

In the Ulster v Blues game he put in a standout performance, was Blues best player, and was sure to have caught the Ulster managements eye.

marty2086 wrote:Caldwell Faloon and Humphries seem to have been unlucky with injuries since they left

Would Steenson want to come back and have a crack at getting into the Irish squad? His games improved massively in the last few years, consistent from the tee and seems to be making better decisions too and a real threat at times with ball in hand.

Steeno not out of contract until summer 2015

Whoops typo - I meant 6/7 not 6/8

Why would Steenson want to come back to play second fiddle to Jackson anyway? Humphreys wasn't happy to stay and do it and he's now at a lower ranked club than Steenson. Basically this is for someone to play 10 during international windows in an Ulster side decimated by international call-ups against a similarly decimated opposition in the Pro12. It's a bit of a hard sell.

Think for this role unless we got an NIQ we're not going to get a better Irish 10 than McKinney. We could maybe use Paddy Wallace as back-up outhalf in his twilight years (I know, I know!). The IRFU authorised Leinster to go get a NIQ 10 to play second fiddle to Madigan and got stung by Gopperth being too good to ride the pine every week. Not sure they will be delighted to authorise a similar deal for Ulster...

Now that Jared Payne is qualifying for Ireland in the summer can we maybe get a project player in the backs who can cover 10? Otherwise it'll have to be someone who's already in the squad like McKinney or Wallace.

Does having a Dad who coaches Ulster make you eligble for Ireland?

 

To be honest I don't think we've seen enough of McKinney to really rate him, how has he been going for the Ravens?

Connacht picked Craig Ronaldson out of the AIB and he's seemed to make the step up, wonder if we could unearth a gem?

TBH I haven't decided if McKinney is up to the task or not yet, hopefully we will see him play some games, maybe they will decide Olding will develop into a 12 backup 10?

It will not5  be anyone currently at the club.

I think the thinking is Jackson- New Boy- Olding in that order thereby making Pienaer at 10 a very unlikely requirement.
It would be a player who is either IQ or could become IQ in the future.

As I said I expect the Lock and 6/7 player to be the big signings although a guy who usually knows what he is talking about on the supporters site has hinted Afoa's replacement could be NIQ

I think McKinney has disappointed and will be shown the door

Really? He's been here, what, all of a few months?

Does seem harsh although I have to say I wouldn't want to see him starting a pro12 game

one word - attitude

The nature of the man off the field is as important as the performance on - one of our strengths.

He has time to turn it around but the clock is ticking

Disappoiting to hear that Geoff although it is good to know that the club has standards. Not that it was ever in doubt.

Has anyone else noticed that we seem to have no second rows on the books at the moment according to the UR website?

It has been like that since they re-vamped the site.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/squad-profiles-list/

In my mind, we need a few of these players to be solid reliable backups. Which of the positions mentioned would we require a big name for? Front Row? Maybe lock. But not the rest.

We need a few more Rob Herring signings! (I actually would have equated Doyle with herring in terms of solid and reliable backups).

We need an IQ 10 who is on the fringe at an S15 club for example. Understated and solid, but not big enough to resent being behind Jackson.

There is no sense in having a big name at 10, or back row (assuming Ferris returns well!).

We need cover for 7 - hence my belief we are looking at a Saffer 6/7.
No Henry and we suffer as was shown in Llanelli - Wilson was lost

Next year assuming Henderson is required for the lock a lot of the time and Ferris is only available for selected matches - both reasonable assumptions we only have

Henry, Wilson, Williams, Diack and then it is Joyce and McCormish that is nowhere near enough
Expect a significant backrow signing

The backups will be LH and 10, the big names will be lock and backrow - TH I don't know

What about signing someone like Gilsenan or Ryan? Connacht were after both last season.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:What about signing someone like Gilsenan or Ryan? Connacht were after both last season.

Dominic Ryan would be a tremendous signing.

IF his injury record improves. 

LeinsterFan4life wrote:What about signing someone like Gilsenan or Ryan? Connacht were after both last season.

Usual problem, I suspect,  southerners don't want to come north being the problem.
We had knock back after knock back.
We are finding it easier to persuade SH players with Irish parent and grandparents to, travel half way round the world, to come here

Only 2 players have come north in the professional era by my recollection.

Ryan doesn't inspire confidence for me. We'll take Leavy sure   

As regards Gilsenan I haven't heard anything of him since the JRWC a couple of years back.

geoff999rugby wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:What about signing someone like Gilsenan or Ryan? Connacht were after both last season.

Usual problem, I suspect,  southerners don't want to come north being the problem.
We had knock back after knock back.
We are finding it easier to persuade SH players with Irish parent and grandparents to, travel half way round the world, to come here

Only 2 players have come north in the professional era by my recollection.

Jerry Cronin and ???

Cillian Willis?

I knew I'd missed 1 - Ronan McCormack as well

Although to be fair we have never signed an established player from Munster or Leinster.

Cronin came from AIM
MCormack from Connaught
Willis was lanquishing in Leinster 3rd (I know I know) and going nowhere fast.

We have never signed an established player who seriously challenges for a 1st XV spot

What about Sean Dougall who came through the Ulster academy and is now getting a pretty decent amount of game time in the Munster senior team?  He looks like hes becoming a very decent player, could bringing him back help the lack of home grown back row options, as he seems to have developed much better than our academy prospects still at Ulster.

Cillian Willis was decent for us until he got injured, Jerry Cronin was okay, fine in cameos at Pro12 level and not much more. Ronan McCormack...

None of those guys had a whole heap of other options.

Someone (Jen, maybe? ) was asking about this the other day. I didn't really get a chance to go into it, but I think it's interesting. I think there are three reasons why we haven't seen the same movement of players to Ulster.

1) We were shoite. Not a place to challenge for silverware, nor a compelling opportunity to be in a shop window for Ireland.

2) No tax break.

3) There are very real and perceived cultural differences between Northern Ireland and the South. Certainly enough to give young men pause about moving.

I find in guys and girls my own age from the South who live in Belfast have some preconceptions about it before they come but when they get here those preconceptions blown out of the water and they enjoy it very much.

We don't get a good press in the South I think, but Belfast is generally a good place to live.