Ulster 2014/2015

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

Notch, as well as the players coming in, who is moving from academy to full contract?

Still nowhere near good enough. At a point in time where we have been found wanting in squad depth, we look to be getting even thinner.

Truth is, Leinster won the semi despite being without Strauss and McCarthy, with players like Ross, O'Brien, Kirchener on the bench, and losing players like Darcy and BOD during the game to injury.

By comparison, we are saying we failed because
a) our 9 was carrying an injury
b) supposedly the names Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy, Cave, Payne, Jackson are only good enough if in the right order.

No, I'm not having it. We are still nowhere near good enough.

And if we are waiting to get silverware based on the luck of being injury free all season, then we may be waiting a long time.

We need to be able to cope with Pienaar left out when he's not fit. We need to be able to switch up our star studded backline and still perform.

Not good enough, and not going to get better is my prediction.

clivemcl wrote:
No, I'm not having it. We are still nowhere near good enough.

Rubbish. We were a few wins away from 2 trophies and lost by one score to probably the best team in Europe with 14 men and the likely Rabo winners.

This has been a step forward again - finishing top seeds in the HEC group stages, redeveloping the stadium and training facilities.

League from was patchy but we blooded a lot of squad players culminating in the win at Thomond park which will stand to us in future seasons.

We aren't Toulon and simply can't compete with the French in terms of marquee signings and producing players through the academy will take time.

This team will get better and we will continue to push for silverware but it isn't a linear upward curve, people need to be patient and realistic. It will be very hard for the Irish teams to win in Europe henceforth but I'd be surprised if we don't lift the Rabo at least in the next few seasons with this group.... a bit of luck in Europe and you never know.... BELIEVE.

I think we have progressed this year and certainly will have built a hell of a lot of character going through the season ravages with injuries and almost beating two of europe's best sides with 14 men. We don't and won't have the depth to cope with the kind of injury crisis this season brought but what are the chances of that happening again. Lightening can't strike twice can it. We were one referee's very dodgy decision away from being in the european semi final and a rub of the green away from being in the Rabo final. I personally don't judge a season by silverware alone, it's always nice but doesn't always tell the full story. I mean look at last season where we won the league but didn't manage to get hands on silverware because of the playoff system I still despise.

BELIEVE!!!!!!!!

I think were we need to improve is to peak in big games. This is something Anscombe needs to look at.

Leinster seem to muddle through the season without doing much but yet accrue the League points and then come the KO stages just pull the wins out of the bag.

I think we try too hard and are too critical from game to game if we don't play as well as expected.

The key is doing the bare minimum to get the job done and then hitting the peaks at key times of the season. We got things right in the group stages this year but post 6N there still seems to be very little in the tank when we need to find another few gears.

Pete330v2 wrote:I think we have progressed this year and certainly will have built a hell of a lot of character going through the season ravages with injuries and almost...

Heard all that last summer, and the summer before.

Rodders, you hark back to our HEC group, and the HEC QF. This is when things are going well (luckily). Yes Payne got sent off, but that was our 1st XV starting that day. You can't just cross your fingers that you will have your 1st XV all season long. Also, its fairly obvious that the injustice of the red card could have created a valiant fighting performance that the lack of a red card may not have seen in the game.

My point stands - the best teams in Europe are still the best teams even when they have a few injuries.

Ulster need all the luck to go their way if they are to compete at the top.

Below the surface is mediocrity.

And we are not improving whats below the surface.

You mention the blooding of players and the Munster win. There was nobody unheard of in the starting front 8 - all familiar names. So the blooding you speak of must have been in the backs? You mean McIlwaine and McKinney? Where are they next season?

The only young fringe player looking good this year was McCloskey, and he's positionally up against Marshall, Olding and cave maybe (hope not). So not exactly where we needed to see academy coming through for the sake of squad depth improvement.

Clive has some decent points but it is mixed in with hysteria

In terms of youngsters coming through we have seen that Warwick, McCloskey, Scholes, Allen, Andrew etc can all do a job at Pro12 level. What we do lack amongst those names is guys in the pack although the likes of Donnan and O'Connor were long term absentees I believe.

I disagree in terms of not improving whats below the surface. Humphreys (defensive flaws aside) is much, much better at 10 than McKinney and also adds experience should we go with a younger nine. I would say back up to Pienaar is a position was Clive has got it spot on. Its a nightmare to the point we are playing him half fit if possible.

Marshall had a very poor year and obviously the management weren't overly enamoured of the other options. This needs addressed as does a third option at hooker.

There are a couple of talented young lads coming through in the backrow but its about how we integrate them. There will clearly be a leadership void without Muller but in a wider context we need the Paynes, Bowes, Caves, Wilsons, Pienaars of the world to really step up and help guide the youngsters through their initial forays into pro-rugby if we are to develop the depth we crave

clivemcl wrote:
Rodders, you hark back to our HEC group, and the HEC QF. This is when things are going well (luckily). Yes Payne got sent off, but that was our 1st XV starting that day. You can't just cross your fingers that you will have your 1st XV all season long. Also, its fairly obvious that the injustice of the red card could have created a valiant fighting performance that the lack of a red card may not have seen in the game.

My point stands - the best teams in Europe are still the best teams even when they have a few injuries.

Ulster need all the luck to go their way if they are to compete at the top.

The best teams in Europe have huge budgets - Toulon can leave guys like Habana on the bench FFS. We simply are not in that league when it comes to resources.

Every team needs a bit of luck but we earned our way to the top of the HEC group.

I don't accept that we have no depth. Herring, Black, Warwick, Lutton, Doyle, Diack, McCloskey, Allen in particular all contributed a lot this season at various times in the absence of the front range players.

We do have problems in certain positions but you can't just magic up players. You either need to go out and spend big, which is difficult because the wages and budgets are getting bigger in France and England , whilst ours is getting smaller, or you need to produce home grown players which takes time.

The average age is still pretty low and there is scope for improvement for a lot of the side. The next few seasons will be tough but we have to work with the resources we have. I don't think based on this season we are a million miles off the top sides but we do need to improve to keep pace with the big guns.

"I don't think based on this season we are a million miles off the top sides but we do need to improve to keep pace with the big guns."

Absolutely and it's that kind of positivity that will be needed in the whole squad and academy. We may very well find it hard to compete unless we're afforded more resources and if we're not (which will probably be the case) then the european competition won't be a level playing field as the likes of Saracens and Toulon progress while the Irish provinces flounder in the competition. We will have to make the best use of the resources we have and with less injuries next season we could have a chance to do that.
The injury crisis did have the silver lining of seeing how we had true treasures in Warwick and McClocskey to name just two so it's not all negative where injuries are concerned.

I'll assure you of one thing, whatever happens I'll be an Ulster fan through and through.

SUFTUM!!! (and crepes and beer)

We might need to increase the price of the crepes and beer to keep pace with Toulon.....

rodders wrote:We might need to increase the price of the crepes and beer to keep pace with Toulon.....

Nooooooooooo!!!!!
There's a line Rodders and it cannot be crossed

I think we need to be selling beer at about 50 quid a pint to get to Toulon level of money Rodders lol

Ulster have made massive strides this season - just look at the stadium.

They have created one of the best rugby stadium's in Europe, with probably the best indoor training facility for any sport in Europe. That costs money. Ulster have been competing at a disadvantage to Munster and Leinster, with their revenues restricted and the outgoings increased. The gate takings can now be banked upon to provide more money for players into the foreseeable.

The demand for tickets has risen, to the point that Ticketmaster set a new world record when selling the Saracen's returns. Impressive for a team that hasn't won anything of note recently. Ulster's representation in the green shirt has risen from tokenism to being a cornerstone of the team. The depth has been increasing at age grade levels with far better coaching and identification of talent - so too has the introduction of AIL players into the squad. Building depth takes time and money.

So what about the team?
Johann Muller is retiring at exactly the right time, Franco van der Merwe is a good replacement.
Paddy Wallace (retiring), McCloskey has been his replacement this season.
Chris Cochrane (retiring), Scholes has emerged and potentially offers more.
Chris Farrell, needs more gametime to move up the order and isn't going to get it at Ulster, could see him return in a season or two.
Niall Annett, unlucky to have so little gametime and is a loss. McCall will have his work cut out to be as good.
John Afoa, is a big loss but he has his own problems and they won't disappear across the Irish sea. Wiehahn Herbst coming in has a good scrummaging reputation.
Tom Court, deserves a better deal than Ulster could offer him. Ruaidhrí Murphy is as like for like as they come.
James McKinney, is a good player (just not as good as he thinks he is) and will do well over in the Championship. IHumph is high risk but maybe will be good for young O'Hagan.
David McIlwaine, it's disappointing that someone with his pace, physique and siege-gun boot couldn't make it as a full-back. More time for Nelson and Scholes.
Paddy McAllister, losing his best friend was a big blow so a change of scene might be just the ticket. Warwick has earned more time anyway.
Sean Doyle, a loss but not sure if he could have been a Test player. Ulster should be looking for their back-ups to be Test class.
Dave Ryan has come in to bolster the Prop situation that is uncertain with Fitzpatrick's current health.

So Ulster definitely need an Openside, and I would argue they also need a ball-carrying 8. There are question marks over Tighthead and 3rd choice hooker. The only Back they really need is a viable Test class 9 to share the load with Pienaar.

I'd keep faith with Marshall and Heaney for another year. Heaney showed his potential against Munster but needs to improve his service,

Marshall always seems to struggle when he's in an out but when he gets a run of games looks sharp and has much quicker service from the base than Ruan.

Bolstering the pack has to be priority, It's disappointing to see so few back 5 forwards coming through.

Can I just add - on the topic of injuries and being out of position being no excuse - when Leinster finally broke our try line, they had 4 backs off injured and were playing with two scrum halves in the backs.

So can we please stop gurning about who played where in the backs, or Pienaar carrying an injury.

If we want to be the team we aspire to be, we have to become capable of winning event when the odds are against us.

We fall apart all to easy.

IMO, Marshall gets a hard time and I honestly believe he should have started if Pienaar wasn't fully fit. We have to back our fringe players sometimes. Forcing on our 1st teamers when they are injured just sends really negative message to the backups in terms of how poor the coaching system believe they are.

clivemcl wrote:
If we want to be the team we aspire to be, we have to become capable of winning event when the odds are against us.

We fall apart all to easy.

Really? I saw our 3rd string beat an experienced Munster team at Thomond park a few weeks ago when not one Ulster fan gave them a hope.

We played a Saracens side that destroyed Clermont, and will likely become the first side in a decade to win the AP and HEC, with 14 men and almost beat them.

We surrendered a 9-0 lead against Leisnter but you are talking about a side that's won 5 trophies in as many seasons on their home patch.

This is not falling apart easily - this is the reality of top level sport where the margins of winning and loosing are a bounce of a ball or a referee decision.

Ulster can take huge positives from this season.

Other positives this year -

Trimble - finally getting the recognition he deserves and bringing his a game for Ireland.

Best, Henry, Trimble, Henderson and to a lesser extent Marshall and Touhy's involvement in Irelands 6N win.

Pienaar choosing to stay when he could have went to France.

Ferris making his long awaited return, albeit short lived.

I don't think there are any positives to the Leinster defeat given how badly Leinster played for 65 minutes and the amount of possession and territory we had. I'm sorry, we should have absolutely buried them- the game should have been out of sight after 65 minutes. The margins of winning and losing here wasn't a referees call or the bounce of the ball. It was us being completely unable to capitalise on long periods of dominance. We should have had two or three tries on the board by the time Leinster got their first score. There was effort but no real attacking strategy and a game plan based around a player who was only half fit and off colour- and yet wasn't replaced.

It was a very, very poor result and putting Leinster up on a pedestal doesn't disguise that. That Leinster performance was such a step down from the standards they set in previous years and if it's repeated Glasgow will certainly be champions. They were 100% there for the taking. It was a pretty damning indictment of where Ulster are at the moment. We can do better, but only if our very thin squad doesn't suffer the injuries that are now common in professional rugby every season.

We can't say we're unlucky with injuries. We have lots of injuries in a sport where that is par for the course and we have failed to build a squad that can cope with that.

clivemcl wrote:We have to back our fringe players sometimes. Forcing on our 1st teamers when they are injured just sends really negative message to the backups in terms of how poor the coaching system believe they are.

Disagree with you on some things, but this is totally correct. If we had Marshall on for the last 10 minutes we might have sneaked a win. It was obvious Pienaar was taking too much out of our attack.

Him not being used and Cave being moved around to accommodate Payne despite being one of our best players this season at 13 kind of typify why I think our coaches are terrible at man-management. Compare to Gregor Townsend...

Notch wrote:
Him not being used and Cave being moved around to accommodate Payne despite being one of our best players this season at 13 kind of typify why I think our coaches are terrible at man-management. Compare to Gregor Townsend...

Gregor Townsend moves players around? No?

Maybe Glasgow fans just don't throw the toys out of the pram when the match day 15 doesn't match the one they expect the way some of ours do and appreciate maybe the coaches are better placed to decide what the best 15 is.

Gregor Townsend has forged an all for one and one for all mentality in Glasgow. He moves players around and rotates his squad- a lot more than we do- because he has faith in his squad and they repay that faith. Any one of thirty or so players has the confidence to come in and do the job because he has confidence in them and he has guys who would otherwise be thought of as journeymen playing out of their skin.

It's very different to having the stars who are in no matter what and the other guys, who are taken for granted, being second class citizens which is how we seem to work. We have the stars and the other blokes, maybe because our coaches aren't good enough at actually coaching a team to win without the contribution of a few brilliant individuals covering up the weaknesses and limits in the game plan. Well, they were all there to see last weekend. Plenty of effort but no actual plan of what we were going to do when we got into the 22 devised or implemented despite running into the same problems many times before over the past few years- even many times against Leinster alone. No strategy at all coming from the coaching team. No lessons learned. No development.

Seems like you can't disagree with me without needing to throw in little digs rodders. How disappointing.

How many trophies has gregor won then that makes him so superior to our terrible coaches?

rodders wrote:How many trophies has gregor won then that makes him so superior to our terrible coaches?

He'll probably have won one more next weekend than we'll get under this lot with a smaller budget and less big-name players.

Our coaches aren't terrible. They've just taken us as far as they can is all. There's no need to stick up for them. Anscombe has been saying the same things after a disappointing performance/loss since he came here and was trotting out all of the same lines after the Leinster game. Go back to when we lost to Glasgow in our first home game in very similar circumstances. You can swap the post-match interviews and you wouldn't notice the difference.

So tell me; what have the coaching staff been working in since then to take us forward? If it's an issue at the start of the season and at the end of the season, then that means that no progress has been made in the past 9 months or so. If no progress has been made then either this summer or next summer we will need someone else to come in and end the stagnation, because he knows what the problems are- he just isn't able to fix them.

It's good enough to make us a Top 4 team but it is definitely not good enough to make us a championship winning team. The talent and character is there, the depth isn't and the coaches aren't. Those two problems need to be addressed or this team will continue to be a story of wasted potential.

I don't need us to win trophies to be satisfied but I do need to see tangible progress and Anscombe delivered six months of great progress before we reached the peak of what he could bring to the table and started stagnating.

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:How many trophies has gregor won then that makes him so superior to our terrible coaches?

He'll probably have won one more next weekend than we'll get under this lot with a smaller budget and less big-name players.

Lets see how they get on against Leinster before we judge eh? Pretty sure Glasgow lost at the same stage against the same team last year as us - yet we are terrible?

What's their budget breakdown versus ours then Notch? I'm pretty sure they have a fair number of international players on their books.

Tell me how'd Glasgow get on in the Heino in recent years?

Maybe you should try reading my post and responding to my points on Ulster instead of fixating on Glasgow. If Leinster play like they did against us, I fully expect Glasgow to win. But whether they do or not doesn't change whats going wrong up here.

I made a specific point about Anscombe not having enough faith in Marshall to bring him on even when Pienaar is having a shocker, and Townsend not falling into that trap with his squad and getting results from them.

Also incredibly disingenuous to suggest I'm saying we are 'terrible'. Way to misrepresent people who disagree with you instead of engaging with their arguments. We are a good side who need to improve to win anything, improvements I don't see coming.

Notch wrote:
Our coaches aren't terrible. They've just taken us as far as they can is all. There's no need to stick up for them.

And what exactly are your credentials to make that determination?

The club themselves feel they have over performed in recent seasons and are happy with the progress they are making on and off the field. Its a long term strategy that's in place to make Ulster one of the top teams in Europe and the side are well on track as far as they are concerned. They aren't looking for short term trophies but to build something sustainable and long lasting success.

I'm very supportive of Humphreys efforts to do that, which I feel have been successful, I don't think the club do necessarily feel that Anscombe is part of that long term project, otherwise they would have given him more than a one year deal. I think he's going to get the same treatment as McLaughlin and I would not be surprised if the search for his successor has already begun.

As for my 'credentials'... if you don't like fans having opinions you might as well f*** off off this site. I spend time and money following this team and I honestly call issues as I see them. There's a lot we've achieved but we're still shy of realising our potential

If all you offer is hanging around to patronise the rest of us mere mortals for the sin of having an opinion you might want to reconsider how you waste your time.

Notch wrote:Maybe you should try reading my post and responding to my points on Ulster instead of fixating on Glasgow.

Maybe you shouldn't make comparisons then with coaches from other sides if you don't want to qualify them when challenged.

You have no idea why Anscombe decided to keep Pienaar on but here may be one.

Jackson going off would have meant finishing the game with an inexperienced half pack pairing and no proven top class kicker in the biggest game of the season - when there was only one score between the sides.

We should have started with P Marshall, and Herring. Pienaar definitely wasn't ready, and to a lesser extent neither was Best. It was asking too much of Best to bring him straight on against Leinster after injury, and Pienaar shouldn't have played at all.
The center pairing was a poor decision. The best we have is Cave and Marshall. The best fullback we have is Payne. So why weaken the team by switching positions?
Another gripe I have is why did they take Cave off!   

It isn't all bad though. I'm actually very optimistic for Ulster's future, and do believe we are progressing nicely. But for injuries, the Payne red card, and Kearney getting away with a bit of craftiness, we could have well been in two finals this year.

No proven top class kicker? I would imagine James McKinneys stats are the best of all our kickers this season. It's the one thing he can do well. The few times he's played he's been at 100% or close to it.

I think I've qualified my comparison just fine. Did you miss this sentence;

'I made a specific point about Anscombe not having enough faith in Marshall to bring him on even when Pienaar is having a shocker, and Townsend not falling into that trap with his squad and getting results from them.'

or this one;

"Any one of thirty or so players has the confidence to come in and do the job because he has confidence in them and he has guys who would otherwise be thought of as journeymen playing out of their skin."

I suspect you didn't but you disagree and as such you want to pretend I didn't say it. You can disagree with me, but you certainly can't accuse me of not backing up my arguments.

You've turned into an incredibly patronising, unpleasant and passive aggressive poster towards anyone who has the temerity to have a different opinion to you. I hope you enjoy it.

Notch wrote:I'm very supportive of Humphreys efforts to do that, which I feel have been successful, I don't think the club do necessarily feel that Anscombe is part of that long term project, otherwise they would have given him more than a one year deal. I think he's going to get the same treatment as McLaughlin and I would not be surprised if the search for his successor has already begun.

As for my 'credentials'... if you don't like fans having opinions you might as well f*** off off this site. I spend time and money following this team and I honestly call issues as I see them. There's a lot we've achieved but we're still shy of realising our potential

If all you offer is hanging around to patronise the rest of us mere mortals for the sin of having an opinion you might want to reconsider how you waste your time.

I didn't say Anscombe is part of the long term - what I said is getting the club to where they want to be is a long term project and they are further ahead than they expected to be and are satisfied with the job Anscombe has done over the past 2 years. That's good enough for me.

There's a difference between stating a personal an opinion and making deterministic, absolute comments about individuals and organisations, particularly derogatory one's and passing them off as factual statements.

What a joke. I don't think I've ever passed anything off as a factual statement. Everything is my opinion, and apparently you feel the need to jump down my throat because you disagree. You need to sort yourself out rodders, its embarrassing.

As for Anscombe we are better off than we were when he came in and we should be grateful for that, but we also need to find a better coach to come in long-term or this limit is as far as we'll reach.

Notch wrote:No proven top class kicker? I would imagine James McKinneys stats are the best of all our kickers this season. It's the one thing he can do well. The few times he's played he's been at 100% or close to it.

I think I've qualified my comparison just fine. Did you miss this sentence;

'I made a specific point about Anscombe not having enough faith in Marshall to bring him on even when Pienaar is having a shocker, and Townsend not falling into that trap with his squad and getting results from them.'

or this one;

"Any one of thirty or so players has the confidence to come in and do the job because he has confidence in them and he has guys who would otherwise be thought of as journeymen playing out of their skin."

I suspect you didn't but you disagree and as such you want to pretend I didn't say it. You can disagree with me, but you certainly can't accuse me of not backing up my arguments.

You've turned into an incredibly patronising, unpleasant and passive aggressive poster towards anyone who has the temerity to have a different opinion to you. I hope you enjoy it.

First point is glasgows result are only marginally better in the pro12 and markedly inferior in the HEC.

Second is you are making a factual statement here - have you actually spoke to any Glasgow or Ulster players to make this statement or is this just your opinion that the Glasgow players feel more confidence from their coach than Ulster ones?

Third - can you please refrain from the personal attacks?

Thats not a factual statement, thats an opinion based on watching both sides and if you don't agree thats fine... of course it is my opinion. I have never pretended otherwise.

If you refrain from being patronising and passive aggressive I will refrain from pointing it out.

Notch wrote:Thats not an factual statement, thats an opinion based on watching both sides and if you don't agree thats fine...

If you refrain from being patronising and passive aggressive I will refrain from pointing it out.

No you aren't you are passing of the players opinions as your own. You have no idea whether the Glasgow players are happier with Townsends man management than the Ulster players with Anscombe's.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats not an factual statement, thats an opinion based on watching both sides and if you don't agree thats fine...

If you refrain from being patronising and passive aggressive I will refrain from pointing it out.

No you aren't you are passing of the players opinions as your own. You have no idea whether the Glasgow players are happier with Townsends man management than the Ulster players with Anscombe's.  

That is a truly ridiculous claim. I'm not claiming to know their minds, I'm giving an opinion based on what I do know.

And what do you know?

Look I just believe the club are making progress on and off the pitch - that's my opinion and from talking to guys employed by Ulster earlier in the year they are very happy with the way things have gone in recent years and are looking long term - the project of expensive NIEs for short term success is over.

Anscombe isn't the future but he has taken us forward and deserves another year at least. Budgets are tight and resources finite - this is the best state we've been in in the pro era and there are some extremely negative opinions on here.

I've had a talking to the odd time on here, so i feel the need to speak up on this occassion.

Notch/Rodders - you are BOTH saying things you because you are getting worked up - calm down and re-read before posting. You are also both taking the comments too personally.

Who in the hell cares if some person online disrespects your opinion.

Calm it down - we are not 'the other forum'.

I know Glasgow are getting a lot better value out of their squad players than ours. I know the culture they have developed is something worth emulating and that they can rotate without dropping the level of performance. I believe that regardless of how their results compare to ours- favourably or unfavourably- they are a lot closer to their potential than we are to ours because of I believe having a better coach.

I know that Anscombe has undermined players like McKinney in public, I know that we have been guilty of rushing back 'star' players who are still half-fit or undercooked at the expense of fit and in-form players who are not 'big names' and I believe that shows signs of it being a two-tier squad.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Ulster but we still have problems we need to iron out along the way. The next coach of Ulster will be a crucial appointment.

Notch wrote:I know Glasgow are getting a lot better value out of their squad players than ours. I know the culture they have developed is something worth emulating and that they can rotate without dropping the level of performance. I believe that regardless of how their results compare to ours- favourably or unfavourably- they are a lot closer to their potential than we are to ours.

I know that Anscombe has undermined players like McKinney in public, I know that we have been guilty of rushing back 'star' players who are still half-fit or undercooked at the expense of fit and in-form players who are not 'big names' and I believe that shows signs of it being a two-tier squad.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Ulster but we still have problems we need to iron out along the way.

First paragraph I'm not entirely in disagreement but there is a lot of subjective stuff - if you compare the HEC then we are well ahead of Glasgow and in terms of achieving potential that can't really be judged objectively.

Rushing players back - again there is some merit in that but that isn't just down to Anscombe - there is s whole process there involving the back room team to determine the players physical and mental readiness.  There is a common theme of players rushed back all over Ireland so I wouldn't blame Ancombe per se.

Notch wrote:What a joke. I don't think I've ever passed anything off as a factual statement. Everything is my opinion, and apparently you feel the need to jump down my throat because you disagree. You need to sort yourself out rodders, its embarrassing.

As for Anscombe we are better off than we were when he came in and we should be grateful for that, but we also need to find a better coach to come in long-term or this limit is as far as we'll reach.

Notch, wind your neck in, you are acting like a complete child.

Ulster as a team have unquestionably improved in the HEC. Beating both English and French opposition home and away in the same year is something the province has never done before, especially considering there were no major new signings.

That led to a lot more players being involved in Ireland squads. Therefore there was a lot more demand on the rest of the squad in the PRO12. Ulster still made the playoffs despite the injury list but their real problem was that they should have had a home semi.

There were a few games over the course of the season where the team didn't perform such as the Glasgow and Blues games, but still plenty of games where they exceeded themselves. The backs have scored some tries off first phase that shows they are being coached well. The defence is especially parsimonious that again shows they are well coached. The team are up there in the fair play league and generally have a low penalty count that shows they have discipline instilled into them.

An inability to score in the red zone is not something unique to Ulster - they have stopped plenty of others doing it to them. Toulon for all their power and resources often revert to Jonny's left foot in similar circumstances (as indeed do Saracens). Ulster should have had far more points on the board in those periods of domination against Leinster but they should have come from Jackson's boot, and that is something he hasn't yet learned.

It's fine in hindsight criticising the coaches for a loss but how do they know how Pienaar is going to hold up under match pressure? He has before so why not again? Marshall would have received just as much criticism, and no-one knows if he would have been any better.

You can't tell, but I am trying to break the tension in this thread by mooning you guys.

I understand Notch's point. If you look at Glasgow's squad and Ulster's squad and you don't think that the quality of the average Glasgow player is higher than that of the average Ulster player (in fact, the average Ulster fan would probably think it is worse), but yet Glasgow have finished strongly with 9 wins on the trot with no notable downturn in quality of aggregate performance, then how else does one explain the difference? The obvious place to turn is the coaching, but in this case, I don't think it's quite as simple as that.

It is correct to say that in Glasgow's last 9 matches, Townsend used 37 different players. However, as has been pointed out, a number of factors converged late in the season and it is always helpful to be clear eyed about this kind of thing when making comparisons:

1. a number of late season injury recoveries came back (Ryan Grant, Peter Horne, Peter Murchie, Al Kellock) and this galvanized the whole team;

2. Edinburgh inexplicably were ordered to loan Glasgow a number of players as injury cover on the (cough, cough, 'unofficial') basis that Edinburgh's season was over - a couple of them proved to be quite influential - particularly Lee Jones on the wing and Geoff Cross at tighthead;

3. let's face it, we had no Heineken Cup to worry about;

4. a couple of stunt signings were made (Carlin Isles and Folau Niua), which made the club feel very good about itself;

5. Glasgow had two games postponed, which gave all of the players a rest at the time when they badly needed it and gave Glasgow the psychological advantage of always having at least one game in hand.

Where Townsend does deserve credit is for creating a tight knit group of players and keeping them together for a number of years, a process started by Sean Lineen. However, fun though it may be to now suggest otherwise, Toonie is definitively not a tactical genius. Watching a mediocre Cardiff Blues side knock us out of the Heineken Cup because we lost our nerve and had no Plan B is something that will stay with me for a long time. No excuse or reason was provided for this.

It is very hard to accept if you're an Ulster fan, but the difference between winning and losing the massive games against the best opposition is nothing more than luck at times and Ulster has had none at all. Ulster in the early stages of the Heineken Cup was a sight to see and that does not vanish overnight. I also would think that a general perception amongst the average rugby fan is that Ulster is mentioned in the game's club elite.

What is critical now is whether Anscombe will be given the money to recruit the sort of quality that he needs. Personally, I think that he is an excellent coach and (with the possible exception of the last match), it is not intuitive for me to place the blame for losses at his door. I think that players generally underperformed and looked unsettled. But that really is the view of layman.

I think Ulster will have difficulty getting a top coach because of the situation with David Humphreys - who actually is in charge?

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Notch wrote:What a joke. I don't think I've ever passed anything off as a factual statement. Everything is my opinion, and apparently you feel the need to jump down my throat because you disagree. You need to sort yourself out rodders, its embarrassing.

As for Anscombe we are better off than we were when he came in and we should be grateful for that, but we also need to find a better coach to come in long-term or this limit is as far as we'll reach.

Notch, wind your neck in, you are acting like a complete child.

I'm sorry, but I hate coming on here for people to just throw sly digs in in their posts because they have a different opinion. I think thats completely out of order. People are entitled to their opinions and I'm entitled to express mine without being patronised or talked down to.

Sin é wrote:I think Ulster will have difficulty getting a top coach because of the situation with David Humphreys - who actually is in charge?

No disrespect to the team in question, but if Cardiff Blues can land someone of the quality of Mark Hammett, then if MA is for the welly, Logan should set his sights at least that high.

I don't think MA should be for the welly, I think we should be looking to get a replacement lined up during next season and then after his contract is up we'll move on. I started off as a very enthusiastic supporter of his but when we lose it's the same old reasons with no sign of those reasons being addressed.

As for Glasgow, I think they are a limited side in their own way (no offence, just that they have one approach which is very effective in the league but has yet to result in silverware) but I really admire the culture they have created in the squad. I question whether we have been able to create something similar.

George Carlin wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think Ulster will have difficulty getting a top coach because of the situation with David Humphreys - who actually is in charge?

No disrespect to the team in question, but if Cardiff Blues can land someone of the quality of Mark Hammett, then if MA is for the welly, Logan should set his sights at least that high.

Not too sure how well Hammett would be regarded as a coach - a lot of controversy over Nonu and Hore and the Canes have not been doing too well.

I think its Humphreys that does the hiring and firing for Ulster, not Logan. Very difficult to get a top coach who wouldn't be in charge of the hiring and firing taking that job.

Sin é wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think Ulster will have difficulty getting a top coach because of the situation with David Humphreys - who actually is in charge?

No disrespect to the team in question, but if Cardiff Blues can land someone of the quality of Mark Hammett, then if MA is for the welly, Logan should set his sights at least that high.

Not too sure how well Hammett would be regarded as a coach - a lot of controversy over Nonu and Hore and the Canes have not been doing too well.

I think its Humphreys that does the hiring and firing for Ulster, not Logan. Very difficult to get a top coach who wouldn't be in charge of the hiring and firing taking that job.

A lot of the guff with Hammett is very recent, though. I don't think that anyone is doubting his pedigree.