Ulster 2013/2014

by **Notch** Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:54 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:Well Payne is NIQ - the only reason he is not selected

And no one is going to convince me that Cave is not the 2nd best IQ 13 behind BOD and has been for the last 3 years or so.

Ah sure I'm not trying to convince you. I do totally disagree though.

Great player for Ulster though he is, I don't think he is intl class.

Payne is the solution, barring someone like Olding, Macken or Henshaw coming through before he qualifies. Other options are Fitzgerald and McFadden. (Probably not on either one) Earls? (Not for me anyway) Who else is there? Tommy Bowe in an emergency cover mode?

Fairly threadbare. I would think there would need to be a fair few injuries before Cave was used at 13 for Ireland though.

Chris Henry who I was giving a hard time to the other day seems to be selected as the 2nd best 7 in Ireland. So what do I know?

I reckon Henry will be on the bench for the AIs. Which puts him as 5th best back row in Ireland behind Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, O'Mahony.

He was good v Montpelier. I take some of my bias back on that one. Smile

by Artful_Dodger Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:04 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I would think there would need to be a fair few injuries before Cave was used at 13 for Ireland though.

But Jen, who are all these 13's in Ireland that are better than Cave?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:10 pm

I took the precaution of naming them BEFORE you asked me this time.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:33 pm

Just finished watching 40 mins behind. Great win.

We coasted past Ulster to win a HC Final 18 months ago in a neutral Venue.

We just beat Ulster to win a Rabo Final at home 6 months ago.

If we make it to either final this year it would be a miracle if we manage to do it again.

18 months ago Ulster had a good 15 with not much depth.

Now they have loads of depth. You can take out several players and they are still a serious outfit.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:36 pm

Cardiff were really good too. Got stuck in for a change

by **Notch** Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:55 pm

Chris Henry is a guy they would love down in Munster- there's nothing flash about him but he is good at everything and works unbelievably hard. He seems to cover every blade of grass and is canny in his breakdown work.

He's I guess good at everything but not phenomenal at any one thing- like Ferris when he is fit is phenomenally physical and an exceptional ball carrier. Henry is just exceptionally well rounded without being exceptional at any one aspect of backrow play. But he's a grafter and he's canny and he's a good leader too.

I don't want that to sound like I'm underrating him. Every side at this level needs a Chris Henry and he'll do a job for Ireland when he's called upon.

by marty2086 Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:06 pm

Notch wrote:Chris Henry is a guy they would love down in Munster- there's nothing flash about him but he is good at everything and works unbelievably hard. He seems to cover every blade of grass and is canny in his breakdown work.

He's I guess good at everything but not phenomenal at any one thing- like Ferris when he is fit is phenomenally physical and an exceptional ball carrier. Henry is just exceptionally well rounded without being exceptional at any one aspect of backrow play. But he's a grafter and he's canny and he's a good leader too.

I don't want that to sound like I'm underrating him. Every side at this level needs a Chris Henry and he'll do a job for Ireland when he's called upon.

He should ask Warburton how he releases the tackle and goes back in and wins the turnover without seeming to as he did that well last night, that'd be a great skill for Henry to have

by Standulstermen Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:23 pm

Warburton was largely anonymous last night. I know he was the Lions captain but if I were picking a welsh team I would be starting tipuric at 7

by Artful_Dodger Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:26 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Warburton was largely anonymous last night. I know he was the Lions captain but if I were picking a welsh team I would be starting tipuric at 7

A lot of people say he is pretty disinterested when playing for the Blues. I would be inclined to agree with them.

by **Notch** Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:27 pm

The secret is to do nothing else in the entire game at all thumbsup

by Don Alfonso Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:18 pm

Very interesting article on Ulster's S&C, the new gym, how they analyse the game and a wee bit of an insight into Chuckles Anscombe.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/harnessing-core-strength-the-main-aim-for-anscombe-29703131.html

by **Notch** Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:43 pm

Also, Ronan O'Gara talking about Ulsters win over Montpellier in his Irish Examiner column;

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/ronan-ogara/ulsters-performance-sends-a-shockwave-through-europe-247482.html

He has kind words for Nick Williams and Paddy Jackson.

by Golden Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:03 pm

Hey lads was watching the ulster game this morning and it just struck me how solid a player Callum black is. I looked him up and it says hes dual qualified for Ireland and the US. So if he got called him to the US and was capped would Ulster release him as he'd be an NIQ?

by Artful_Dodger Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:05 pm

Golden wrote:Hey lads was watching the ulster game this morning and it just struck me how solid a player Callum black is. I looked him up and it says hes dual qualified for Ireland and the US. So if he got called him to the US and was capped would Ulster release him as he'd be an NIQ?

He was more than solid - handed Scott Andrew's his ass on a plate in the scrum Smile

by 8Studs Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:12 pm

Very well written piece by ROG, I thought.

by **Notch** Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:13 pm

We might have to, I don't think it will happen as he's contracted to play for Ulster and Ireland but who knows?

by Artful_Dodger Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:36 pm

By the way folks, thought it would be interesting to point out that before round 1 we were joint with Tigers as the 7th/8th most likely to win the tournament at 12/1 (also joint for which one of us would win the group)

Clermont Auvergne 5/1
Toulon 5/1
Leinster 7/1
Toulouse 7/1
Saracens 10/1
Ulster 12/1
Leicester Tigers 12/1

After two rounds the odds look like this:

Toulouse 4/1
Toulon 4/1
Clermont Auvergne 5/1
Leinster 6/1
Ulster 6/1

Tigers 22/1
(Saracens also dropped to 18/1 from initial favourites)

Bookies have us as heavy heavy favourites to win this group now....and one of the five front runners to win the tournament.

by Don Alfonso Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:54 pm

8Studs wrote:Very well written piece by ROG, I thought.

It reads like a fairly random collection of observances from ROG. Just a collection of scattergun thoughts.

by **Notch** Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:28 pm

It is a bit. He's insightful enough about the game but not used to structuring a piece of writing in this context or putting together a through argument or thread that can tie all of these anecdotes and thoughts together.

To be fair, if you can't be both a font of rugby knowledge and an excellent writer I would rather read the guy who knows his stuff than the writer who doesn't. If you can do both you're an excellent sports journalist, if you can do neither you probably work on the Belfast Telegraph sports page but ROG knows rugby and that's ok. Not brilliant. Ok.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:45 pm

We are all aware that columns get ghost written as much as 'auto'biographies do? Yes?

The usual thing that happens when a player 'writes' for a paper - either like O'Gara now, having retired, or as a player might do over the course of a Championship or Cup Event (WC, 6N etc) is that they are really only interviewed and their thoughts are then written up by someone else and huddled together to form some kind of loosely connected thing called a column.

Now, yes, some of them progress to be real writers but I'd suspect O'Gara, with a busy job (6 O'Clock morning starts and long days I hear), is still at the interview stage.

by Don Alfonso Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:51 pm

If that was put together by a professional writer, they need a boot up the hole.

by SecretFly Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:56 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:If that was put together by a professional writer, they need a boot up the hole.

Therefore a boot in said hole would be an expedient and suitable punishment Wink

- as I could almost guarantee you that's how these 'player' columns initially materialise.

by **Notch** Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:13 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:If that was put together by a professional writer, they need a boot up the hole.

"Forget it, Don. It's the Examiner"

by Artful_Dodger Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:58 pm

Trimble and Wilson added to Ireland squad so we'll now be without them in the international period. What will our starting backrow and back three be now?

6 - Diack
7 - Doyle
8 - Williams

11 - Gilroy
14 - Allen
15 - Payne

?

by Don Alfonso Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:15 pm

I'd like to see Joyce come in ahead of McComish. Hoping he can kick on this season and feature a few times.

Back three cover will most likely be McIlwane.

by **Notch** Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:11 pm

Will we be without them for the Scarlets? I think the matchday 23 might be rested or benched but other players will come back to the provinces.

For Wilson he might just be needed until Thursday when O'Brien is set to return to training. I don't think Trimble and Wilson are in with much of a chance of selection unfortunately.

by **Notch** Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:21 pm

Johann Muller 4-6 weeks. Calf strain.

Massively annoying that he and Henderson are out at the same time.

by Artful_Dodger Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:27 pm

Neil McComb will be called upon for the first time this season then. Still going to be desperately short in the 2nd row with Tuohy with Ireland as well.

by **George Carlin** Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:58 am

Notch wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:If that was put together by a professional writer, they need a boot up the hole.
"Forget it, Don. It's the Examiner"

by toml Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:40 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:Neil McComb will be called upon for the first time this season then. Still going to be desperately short in the 2nd row with Tuohy with Ireland as well.

I dunno, i wouldn't be surprised to see Robbie go back into the 2nd row again.
4-Diack
5-Stevenson
6-McComish (i'd prefer not)
7-Doyle
8-Williams

Would like to see Olding at 10 too, but maybe better for him to stay at 12
9-Pienaar
10-Olding
12-Farrell (would like PW fit)
13-Cave

Up to second in the european rankings
http://www.eurorugby.com/index.php
and 'hot' this week
http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16016_8997539,00.html

by **Notch** Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:48 pm

Guessing the team this week is a bit like throwing darts in the dark given we don't know who is going to be rested on IRFU orders with the Samoa game looming hut I would hazard a guess at;

1. Black
2. Herring
3. Afoa (c)
4. Stevenson
5. McComb
6. Diack
7. Doyle
8. Williams
9. Marshall
10. Pienaar
11. Allen
12. Olding
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Payne

16. Annett 17. McCall 18. Lutton 19. McComish 20. Wilson 21. Heaney 22. McKinney 23. McIlwaine

by 8Studs Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:20 am

That's not a bad looking line up. Grant you it could be better but it could be a lot worse.

by geoff999rugby Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:20 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:Well Payne is NIQ - the only reason he is not selected

And no one is going to convince me that Cave is not the 2nd best IQ 13 behind BOD and has been for the last 3 years or so.
Ah sure I'm not trying to convince you. I do totally disagree though.

Great player for Ulster though he is, I don't think he is intl class.

He may not be but who has been in the last 3 years

not Earls
not Henshaw
Not anyone, other BOD Leinster have played there

This is rather the point - Ireland are staring down the end of a barrel with regard to 13 - after BOD No One is International class.
That is why there are desperate for Payne to play there because no Irish born player is good enough.

Of those not quite International Class Cave is the best

by geoff999rugby Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:38 am

Anyone follow twitter or some such.

Being claimed on the supporters site that Ruan has hinted a couple of his Saffers mates coming over.
Also Afoa to France seems to be gathering momentum.

One thing I have heard is that all the Dublin restrictions on signing players from abroad - with the exception of total numbers are consigned to the rubbish bin

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:08 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Anyone follow twitter or some such.

Being claimed on the supporters site that Ruan has hinted a couple of his Saffers mates coming over.
Also Afoa to France seems to be gathering momentum.

One thing I have heard is that all the Dublin restrictions on signing players from abroad - with the exception of total numbers are consigned to the rubbish bin

Hey Geoff.

Pienaar and Williams on the books already. If what you have said about NIQs down to 3 with no project then you would only have room for 1 more. (Presuming, as is likely, Afoa and Muller go)

PS. Can you stop calling the IRFU Dublin. It's a bit disconcerting Smile

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:15 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:Well Payne is NIQ - the only reason he is not selected

And no one is going to convince me that Cave is not the 2nd best IQ 13 behind BOD and has been for the last 3 years or so.
Ah sure I'm not trying to convince you. I do totally disagree though.

Great player for Ulster though he is, I don't think he is intl class.

He may not be but who has been in the last 3 years

not Earls
not Henshaw
Not anyone, other BOD Leinster have played there

This is rather the point - Ireland are staring down the end of a barrel with regard to 13 - after BOD No One is International class.
That is why there are desperate for Payne to play there because no Irish born player is good enough.

Of those not quite International Class Cave is the best

Cave is a funny one. I would agree with what you say if you confine your selections to those who EXCLUSIVELY play 13.

All the rest of the contenders (inc Payne) play other positions as well. Which is good for them as it gets them into a 23 man squad, but bad for them in that they do not get a run in one position to stake a claim to the jersey.

Earls, Henshaw, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Payne and even Olding could be considered for the position. (I say even for Olding as he has not played much there)

I would have most of them ahead of Cave as Rugby players in general but none of them have specialised at 13. So it is harder to compare them.

On that basis I would have Cave as "the best non international class 13" next to Bod.

If some of them got an extended run in the spot, all bets might be off.

by Standulstermen Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:29 am

The Saffer rumours are due to hat interview Pienaar gave the beeb and not a lot more that I can see buti haven't looked for others info. Yeah I saw a rumour Castres are in advanced talks with Afoa.

The Mrs clearly just didn't like Belfast. Fair enough, I guess we were due some bad luck in terms of overseas players adapting to life here. They can't all be like Muller etc

by geoff999rugby Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:36 am

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Anyone follow twitter or some such.

Being claimed on the supporters site that Ruan has hinted a couple of his Saffers mates coming over.
Also Afoa to France seems to be gathering momentum.

One thing I have heard is that all the Dublin restrictions on signing players from abroad - with the exception of total numbers are consigned to the rubbish bin
Hey Geoff.

Pienaar and Williams on the books already. If what you have said about NIQs down to 3 with no project then you would only have room for 1 more. (Presuming, as is likely, Afoa and Muller go)

PS. Can you stop calling the IRFU Dublin. It's a bit disconcerting

Should clarify the numbers is back to 4 or 5.

I think the squeeze down to 3 only is out the water also along with the positional restrictions
I think the IRFU ( Very Happy

) are bracing themselves to the inevitable lose of some players to the big money of France and realize the standard at the provinces cannot be allowed to drop below a certain level

by **rodders** Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:19 am

Standulstermen wrote:The Saffer rumours are due to hat interview Pienaar gave the beeb and not a lot more that I can see buti haven't looked for others info. Yeah I saw a rumour Castres are in advanced talks with Afoa.

The Mrs clearly just didn't like Belfast. Fair enough, I guess we were due some bad luck in terms of overseas players adapting to life here. They can't all be like Muller etc

The Afoa family off to France! What a load of chancers! Must be the weather ....

Pienaar was only making a throwaway comment it seemed....mind you Etzebeth and du plessis would be welcome additions to the squad ....

by Standulstermen Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:23 am

Looked like there was a wee knowing smile in that interview rodders but yeah I agree it is really enough to base a report on

by **Notch** Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:39 am

Anyone else think Paddy Jackson might get the start against Samoa? There's talk of Sexton potentially having to fly back to France to play for Racing this weekend, they might rest him and PJ is training in the red bibs with Luke Marshall, BOD and Bowe outside him in the pics/videos that have been released of various training sessions.

I know that all of that is very tenuous at best and doesn't constitute proof at all, I just have a wee hunch.

by SecretFly Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:44 am

I've already said it somewhere on the Ireland thread. Yeah, Notch, I personally think it's a real possibility. Sexton needs rest for the other two games, which most will see as more important games.

by marty2086 Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:52 pm

rodders wrote:Pienaar was only making a throwaway comment it seemed....mind you Etzebeth and du plessis would be welcome additions to the squad ....

Etzebeth was my first thought at the time but seems hes signed on with the Stormers until 2016

As for Jackson starting, I read somewhere that Sextons lost weight since going to France and the management are monitoring that as hes basically being pushed for every last drop by Racing

by Artful_Dodger Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:38 pm

I see Darren Cave hasn't been released by Schmidt....yet Wilson and Trimble have - what do we take from that?

by geoff999rugby Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:17 pm

Schmidt has seen the light re the class act at 13 in Ireland, after his holiness thumbsup

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:42 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:I see Darren Cave hasn't been released by Schmidt....yet Wilson and Trimble have - what do we take from that?

Sorry lads. But I think the reason he was not "released" was because he was not in there in the first place. Smile

by Artful_Dodger Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:51 pm

Wasn't he called up after O'Callaghan, Wilson, Trimble and Moore?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:08 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:Wasn't he called up after O'Callaghan, Wilson, Trimble and Moore?

possibly.... I can't keep up with every bit of news. Smile

by **Notch** Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:18 pm

Cave was indeed, saw a picture of him signing autographs at the Open Training Session. So he's out.

Tom Court is another guy who legitimately has a chance of starting against Samoa. Cian Healy has sat out this whole week of training and neither he nor Jack McGrath have been released so he'll at the very least add to his caps off the bench you'd think and maybe start.

With Cave out do we go;

9- Pienaar
10- Olding
12- Farrell
13- Payne

Or do we keep Jared Payne at fullback and look at

9- Marshall
10- Pienaar
12- Olding
13- Farrell

Either way Trimble and Allen are certainties for the wing positions, I'm not really confident in McIlwaine at fullback though.

My guess for a side;

1. Black
2. Herring
3. Afoa
4. Stevenson
5. Diack
6. Wilson
7. Doyle
8. Williams
9. Pienaar
10. Olding
11. Allen
12. Farrell
13. Payne
14. Trimble
15. McIlwaine

16. Annett 17. McCall 18. Lutton 19. McComb 20. McComish 21. Marshall 22. McKinney 23. Nelson

Please, please let them pick Sean Doyle ahead of Mike McComish.

by **Notch** Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:31 pm

Hopefully Cave was never officially 'called up', just holding tackle bags and so will be available... I really don't see him being involved at all so I'm not wishing him to miss out, I just don't see him getting gametime.

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