Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

Currently Leinster have 19 players with Ireland and a few more out injured.

Do you hear us begrudging them players who will not make the 23?

Because there are a few.

You just have to get used to it.

Frankly, I think it's a major failing of the Pro12 and rather than get used to it they should change the format of the league to avoid this happening.

It is the treatment of Cave specifically I begrudge not a player being given the opportunity to play for his country.

He is just a mix between an after thought and a tackle bag

geoff998rugby wrote:It is the treatment of Cave specifically I begrudge not a player being given the opportunity to play for his country.

He is just a mix between an after thought and a tackle bag

Tell it to Isaac Boss or James Cawlin, Just to pick one from each of the other major provinces.

Point is we all have them. Not just Ulster.

Not sure if Earls is back fit. If not presumably 2 of Trimble, Fitzgerald and Kearney will feature.

As regards playing league games during the intl window. All leagues do it. You have to fit the season in somewhere.

Would you rather have no Rabo playoffs? AND have less than 12 teams? That's how we used to manage to avoid it. Or just have no H Cup?

geoff998rugby wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Who would Leinster field if they were missing three inside centres?  

Noel Reid probably. We will find out on Friday. Darce, Goodman, Madigan, McFadden, Fitzgerald (In terms of people who CAN play 12) are out.

Ireland news.

McFad out for "a number of weeks" with a hand injury.

Cave and F Jones called in for Bod and Kearney, but Bod will play.

Some of you will see that as a good thing that Cave is in the Ireland squad. Others will moan that he won't be available to Ulster.

You can't win.

As an after thought where it probably means he will be a spectator and denied a game for Ulster yer its not great.

He needs to be central to the set up not a player pulled in at the last minute because things are going pear shaped.

I thinks a bit of understatment Geoff.  The only people who realise that things have been going wrong for some time are the fans.  It appears (at the minute) that JS is going the same route as the previous occupants of this position.  I hope for one he is just having a minor blip, and relises that some players need to be shown the door for not performing at the required level for their country.  They will be welcomed back once they have proved themselves, sounds a bit harsh especially with the level of depth we have at provincial level.  But maybe that may be the kick up the backside that some of these players need, to show what we all know they can do.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:It is the treatment of Cave specifically I begrudge not a player being given the opportunity to play for his country.

He is just a mix between an after thought and a tackle bag

Tell it to Isaac Boss or James Cawlin, Just to pick one from each of the other major provinces.

Point is we all have them. Not just Ulster.

Not sure if Earls is back fit. If not presumably 2 of Trimble, Fitzgerald and Kearney will feature.

As regards playing league games during the intl window. All leagues do it. You have to fit the season in somewhere.

Would you rather have no Rabo playoffs? AND have less than 12 teams? That's how we used to manage to avoid it. Or just have no H Cup?

No Heinos a possibility so lets not jinx it  

Isaac Boss was given a fair crack of the ship to establish his place Cave hasn't

Thats the difference

Coughlan was released to play for Munster the week before the Samoa game after specifically requesting to be allowed to leave camp. Hopefully this is what happens with some of our lads this week. Last time Cave did this he was slagged off to high heaven- truth is players want to play.

Tbh, I would rather we split the league in half and had two conferences with less games and the emphasis on those games being higher level, higher intensity encounters with no overlap with internationals.

We move from selling a lot of games with little interest to various broadcasters to selling an elite competition that better prepares us for Heineken Cup and test rugby to a major broadcaster who is miffed at a new rival entering the market...

IF that proves to be a loss-making endeavour, here is another suggestion- Academy/AIL players holding tacklebags in the second part of the week. Team is named on Tuesday, there may be a few injury doubts but you know the core 25 or so players who can't be released. Get young players into camp to replace the tackle bag holders for the sessions on Thursday and Friday- exposes younger players to the test match environment and frees up guys who could be getting gametime at provincial level to advance their cases.

There are other possibilities I could go into- not scheduling the provincial games two days before the test match is another one- but there are a lot of ways around this problem rather than just shrugging your shoulders.

And by the way, isn't it a bit sad that you had to come on here to start this conversation so you could act outraged at paying fans wanting to see the best teams available any given weekend? I hope its going how you wanted.

geoff998rugby wrote:Isaac Boss was given a fair crack of the ship to establish his place Cave hasn't

Thats the difference

Neither was Shane Jennings. (for example) Again, we all have these issues.

Notch wrote:Coughlan was released to play for Munsterthe week before the Samoa game after specifically requesting to be allowed to leave camp. Hopefully this is what happens with some of our lads this week. Last time Cave did this he was slagged off to high heaven- truth is players want to play.

Tbh, I would rather we split the league in half and had two conferences with less games and the emphasis on those games being higher level, higher intensity encounters with no overlap with internationals.

We move from selling a lot of games with little interest to various broadcasters to selling an elite competition that better prepares us for Heineken Cup and test rugby.

IF that proves to be a loss-making endeavour, here is another suggestion- Academy/AIL players holding tacklebags in the second part of the week. Team is named on Tuesday, there may be a few injury doubts but you know the core 25 or so players who can't be released. Get young players into camp to replace the tackle bag holders for the sessions on Thursday and Friday- exposes younger players to the test match environment and frees up guys who could be getting gametime at provincial level to advance their cases.

There are other possibilities I could go into- not scheduling the provincial games two days before the test match is another one- but there are a lot of ways around this problem rather than just shrugging your shoulders.

And by the way, isn't it a bit sad that you had to come on here to start this conversation so you could act outraged at paying fans wanting to see the best teams available any given weekend? I hope its going how you wanted.

Some possible options in there. Hard to split the teams though. If you do it geographically, it's great for derbies but you have (say) Wales and Scotland, and Ireland and Italy. Also. Harder to play Glasgow than Zebre.

Ireland only get to play Wales and Scotland in play offs.

Possible merit in the AIL suggestion too. But the National team would not benefit and the AIL players would not be within an asses roar of the Nat team so it would be wasted on them.

Isaac Boss 17 caps
Shane Jennings 18 caps
Darren Cave 5 caps

geoff998rugby wrote:Isaac Boss 17 caps
Shane Jennings 18 caps
Darren Cave 5 caps

Isaac Boss 33
Shane Jennings 32
Darren Cave About 25ish?

Bet he gets to 18 before he hits 30.

18 caps that is.

What is the availability of Gilroy and Muller?

Worst case scenario team;

Black-Herring-Afoa
Stevenson-Diack
McComish-Williams-Doyle
Marshall-McKinney
Farrell-Allen
Nelson-Payne-McIlwaine

There are only five changes from the Ravens team and only four of them make it stronger, not weaker. I've got a bad feeling about this!

Notch wrote:What is the availability of Gilroy and Muller?

Worst case scenario team;

Black-Herring-Afoa
Stevenson-Diack
McComish-Williams-Doyle
Marshall-McKinney
Farrell-Allen
Nelson-Payne-McIlwaine

There are only five changes from the Ravens team and only four of them make it stronger, not weaker. I've got a bad feeling about this!

Sure that's a grand team. Muller in there and yiz'll hockey Embra with one hand tied behind yer backs.

They are down players too don't forget. Probably more than you given that there are only 2 teams in Scotland, and Ulster fans are always saying that they are under represented in the nat team.  

I really do feel Tuohy, Cave and Trimble have earned a shot- especially when others didn't help their case last weekend.

But a very big part of me hopes that shot is delayed until the Six Nations! Will we at least get Court and Wilson back? Those lads would be outside the 30 players needed.

Ah but Edinburgh have invested heavily in lots of journeymen NIQ players.

Their team might look like

Blaauw-Hilterbrand-Nel
Gilchrist-van der Westhuizen
Coman-Du Preez-Leonardi
Hart-Leonard
Atiga-Dominguez
Walker-A.N. Other-Farndale

They are also depending on players being released to have a semi-respectable backline but at least they have the pack, an almost entirely NSQ pack!

It's going to be ugly and a little too close for comfort I think...

Notch wrote:I really do feel Tuohy, Cave and Trimble have earned a shot- especially when others didn't help their case last weekend.

Tuohy should have been in there by now really. Trimble is a similar player to McFadden in some ways. No objection to him having a shot. Doubt he would get in an Irish side with no injuries though. Cave? Hmmmmm.

Notch wrote:
But a very big part of me hopes that shot is delayed until the Six Nations! Will we at least get Court and Wilson back? Those lads would be outside the 30 players needed.

Is Wilson in there? Didn't realise. You will have Court for sure. Wilson too. I am hopeful that we will get Boss and one of Jeno and Kev back. Also Kirchner.

Notch wrote:Ah but Edinburgh have invested heavily in lots of journeymen NIQ players.

Their team might look like

Blaauw-Hilterbrand-Nel
Gilchrist-van der Westhuizen
Coman-Du Preez-Leonardi
Hart-Leonard
Atiga-Dominguez
Walker-A.N. Other-Farndale

They are also depending on players being released to have a semi-respectable backline but at least they have the pack, an almost entirely NSQ pack!

We call them 'project players', Notchy, don't ya know!

We do too!  

Do you have any idea what Edinburghs team will actually look like Asbo? What specific configuration of overseas journeymen will be sent to do battle with our brave, homegrown journeymen?

Men like Rob Herring, Robbie Diack... er... Sean Doyle. Hmmm, maybe I've been a bit hasty!

Have to say I don't know how Embra will line up but something like:

Blaauw Lutui Nel
2 from Gilchrist VDW Cox
Basilaia Du Preeze RENNIE (plus Leonardi, Watson, Coman)
Kennedy / Hidalgo-Clyne
Leonard

Then we have no backs!
Atiga Dominguez
Fife Cuthbert Jones ?

So a decent pack, but a back line my dead granny would enjoy playing against.

Well we'll be putting out a decent pack and a backline your great-granny would enjoy playing against so I guess it'll probably be a game with a lot of kicking!

Muller and Gilroy playing is key.

If Muller plays we have a back 5 in the scrum of
Stevenson, Muller, Diack, Williams, Doyle - OK woth that
Without Muller we either McComb in the 2nd row or Diack in the 2nd row and McCormish at 6 - not happy with either of those

If Gilroy playes we can go (11-15)
Allen, Farrell, Payne, McIlwaine, Gilroy
or
McIlwaine, Farrell, Allen, Gilroy, Payne

live that that but without Gilroy it is
Allen, Farrell, Payne, and any 2 from McIlwaine/Andrew/Nelson for 14 and 15
not happy with that

The trouble with getting players back is our game is on Friday and the International is on Sunday so many may stay just in case.

Fingers crossed some of Trimble, Cave, Tuohy, Court, Wilson come back

geoff998rugby wrote:
If Gilroy playes we can go (11-15)
Allen, Farrell, Payne, McIlwaine, Gilroy
or
McIlwaine, Farrell, Allen, Gilroy, Payne

Your great granny must be able to fair shift Notch because those are lively looking backlines.....

I would imagine cave, Wilson and court will come back. Gilroy is apparently back according to a BT article I read. If that's the case we could put out

11.Allen
12. Farrell
13. Payne
14. Nelson
15. Gilroy

I know others will argue Im throwing people out of position but Nelson has never convinced me at 15 and I think he needs blooded at wing and If Cave doesn't feature I think we need Paynes experience in the centre with Farrell. The big issue will be halfbacks with PJ and Olding out.

The half backs are Marshall and McKinney we have no other options

Absolutely the issue Geoff

geoff998rugby wrote:The half backs are Marshall and McKinney we have no other options

Gareth Anscombes still in town, wonder if the Chiefs would loan him to us for a few weeks

Morning Ulster fans - anyone fancy setting up a match thread for your game with us? Your home game so only fair!  

Plus I can't be bothered...

marty2086 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:The half backs are Marshall and McKinney we have no other options

Gareth Anscombes still in town, wonder  if the Chiefs would loan him to us for a few weeks

Not much use his arm is in a sling  

geoff998rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:The half backs are Marshall and McKinney we have no other options

Gareth Anscombes still in town, wonder  if the Chiefs would loan him to us for a few weeks

Not much use his arm is in a sling  

At this rate it may have to make do Geoff

geoff998rugby wrote:Henderson will be ok by Edinburgh.

To quote myself from the 13th October.
The Newsletter has Henderson in the squad for Friday - where is the :smug git: emotioncon when you need  

It would be epic to have him back!

They dont list Muller though  

To be honest with Stevenson fit I am happy to leave Muller out if there is any doubt.
Stevenson, Henderson in the 2nd row and Diack at 6 is fine.

They also have Gilroy listed

I think there's a collective Phew at that news Geoff.
Now I need to go buy a newsletter though

geoff998rugby wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Henderson will be ok by Edinburgh.  

To quote myself from the 13th October.
The Newsletter has Henderson in the squad for Friday  - where is the :smug git: emotioncon when you need   

Don't you mean the :sparky: one Geoff?... 

only messing.....

RDW_Scotland wrote:Morning Ulster fans - anyone fancy setting up a match thread for your game with us? Your home game so only fair!  

Plus I can't be bothered...

That's what you call dialing in a post. Good effort  

No one has done it yet!  

I did it out of pity. I'm not even a Nordie.  

Rumour on Leinsterfans that Jack McGrath is going to you lot. Not impressed from a Leinster pov. May be good for Ireland.

We may get something out of the deal too. Whether directly from Ulster or elsewhere.

Would fit with what I have heard.

An IQ LH

Joe May not want the 1st and 2nd choice Irish player in a position taking gametime off each other.
Olding and Luke Marshall - soon to be 1st and 2nd choice Irish 12

Fortuantely, for Ulster, neither Marshall or Olding are going anywhere next year especially with Paddy Wallace, possibly, retiring.

Uncertain yet whether he will stay for one more year.
I would imagine he is tempted to stick around until he becomes the first ever player to reach 200 games for the Province.
12 short

geoff998rugby wrote:with Paddy Wallace, possibly, retiring.

Uncertain yet whether he will stay for one more year.
I would imagine he is tempted to stick around until he becomes the first ever player to reach 200 games for the Province.
12 short  

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/team/stats/players/appearances.php
We have a few in that club. Top of which is the man whose big white @rse will be in the way of Marshall and/or Olding all the way to RWC15

Maybe we'll take Payne? We all have to have a little Payne in our lives.

Ulster in a good position that all major players are signed up beyond 2014 except Rory Best (announcment in the New Year) and the props (other than Callum Black)

D'arcy has played over 30 games in each of the last 3 season, inspite of injuries and Internationals?

That cant be right - according to the Aviva crowd we always rest our senior players

Maybe Farrell will go down to Leinster If we were to get McGrath. That would be a serious signing