Hungarian GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of Practice/Qualifying and Race Results

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

It may only be three weeks, but the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring seems like a lifetime ago. So it's good to be previewing a return to Budapest and the Formula 1 Magyar Nagydij 2013.

Drivers enjoy the city and the welcome from the Hungarian (and Finnish) fans, and a few of them actually like the circuit too, which in many respects is a glorified kart track. It has a succession of slow corners, one leading immediately onto another, making it the second slowest track on the calendar. It is only just faster than Monaco, but without all the tax-dodging.

As Renault motorsport boss Remi Taffin says, it's not about engine power: "Outright engine power is not a major concern. As a result we generally use engines on the third race and work to deliver good low-speed torque response and driveability."

Since the Nurburgring, Pirelli have been working to supply F1 with new tyres - everyone bar Mercedes got to run with them at the Young Driver Test and the reaction was positive from the teams.

Pirelli have modified their P Zero tyre with a reversion to the 2012 construction which is now married to the range of softer 2013 compounds. Their motorsport boss Paul Hembery, having weathered the storm that the F1 teams created after the Silverstone GP, is looking forward to a good old-fashioned strategy battle at the Hungaroring. Even though 10 teams got to run the tyres at the Young Driver Test (and Mercedes received the data) Hembery believes that Friday set-up work will be crucial to figuring out strategy.

"Overtaking at this circuit is never an easy task, "said Hembery, "so the teams will be looking to use strategy to maximise their opportunities to gain track position. The selection of medium and soft tyres should provide plenty of chances to help them do that, based on the data that all the teams gain with different fuel loads in free practice."

Many Fridays have been ruined in previous grand prix weekend by Friday rain, but at the Hungaroring it's expected to be Scorchio all weekend with ambient temperatures of 32C, 33C and 36C for the race.

Looking after your rears may well be the order of the day, but Hembery believes that the Softs and Mediums will just lose performance rather than disintegrate. "With levels of lateral energy relatively low, tyre performance rather than durability will be the limiting factor and this will form the basis of the strategy selected."

The added durability of the new tyre may well be to the advantage of Lotus, Force India and Ferrari who will be able to eke out performance on the Soft tyres, while Mercedes and Red Bull may be forced into using the slower Medium tyres. A lot of computing and brain power will have gone into solving degradation issues since the last race, none more so than at Mercedes who had to sit out the Young Driver Test.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff should have been a lot more upbeat about the weekend in prospect. In the last race at a tight, twisty circuit - Monaco - his cars locked out the front row and won the race. But that was on a different tyre. "We are under no illusions that we have a number of challenges to overcome," Wolff said. "First, we will need to do extra homework on Friday to understand how the new tyres work with our car. Then we will have to get to grips with the high temperatures, a demanding circuit and the new Soft and Medium compound Pirelli tyres. "

At least he'll have a couple of pumped up drivers. Lewis Hamilton has won the Hungarian Grand Prix three times before and Nico Rosberg just wants to beat Lewis Hamilton.

There may not be any Hungarian drivers on the grid, but ever since the days of Mika Hakkinen, the race has attracted a lot of Finnish fans. Some of them may be cheering Valtteri Bottas, but the majority will be hoping that Kimi Raikkonen doesn't have to step onto that hated second step of the podium again.

"I have finished second in Hungary too many times," grumbled the Ice (Cream) Man, "so I know how important it is to lead the race after the first corner. DRS or not, it's never easy to overtake at the Hungaroring. To get the weekend right, you have to have good sessions in FP1, FP2 and FP3, then a strong qualifying session and finally a perfect start to the race."

"Many times Hungary has been called 'the Grand Prix of Finland'. A lot of Finns go to this race every year and it is always nice to see the blue and white flags waving. Hopefully we get the result we are looking for."

One thing that Raikkonen was concerned about was the dust at the Hungaroring, especially on the dirty side of the grid. Often teams worry about starting on the dirty side of the grid and nothing dreadful happens, but at the Hungaroring it can be a problem. And with teams able to re-arrange their drivers by changing a gearbox and hence changing the left-side starters to right-side starters, it is a lottery that can still be manipulated. (Maybe the FIA should have the power to impose a six-place penalty for a gearbox that they believe has been changed for tactical reasons?)

Red Bull will be hoping to battle it out with Lotus and Mercedes for the win, and having gone quickest on the new Pirelli rubber at the YDT they will obviously be hoping to add to Mark Webber's win at the circuit. It's been an interesting week with the team announcing a July 6th 2014 date for an Austrian GP at the Red Bull Ring. So presumably next year this will precede the Hungarian GP and may even elbow aside the 2014 German GP.

The Hungarian race marks the start of the F1 holiday season and after this it will be another four weeks until the race in Spa. Traditionally the grand prix was promoted by one of Bernie Ecclestone's companies and the good burghers of Budapest erected a statue of Bernard Charles at the Hungaroring looking, if truth be told, a little like a cross between Eric Morecambe and Elvis Costello. The way things are going with events in Munich, this may be the closest we get to Bernie's attendance next year...

Like the Australian Grand Prix, the tight confines and atypical nature of the circuit will only give a small piece of the picture about the teams' relative performance on the new tyre. The Belgian GP with many high-speed corners will provide much more of the picture. Butit's going to be a fascinating glimpse of the battles ahead.

Weather Forecast:http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/3054643 < Looking to be very hot this weekend close to 40 degrees come raceday.
Source: PlanetF1.com

[bogbrush]

Bogbrush, what's got into you? Acting like a ****.

I know Kimi & Vettel are seriously good friends outside of the sport. He laughed in his face because he knew he could do it to Vettel and how he would react. Kimi knew that the issue was ridiculous, so he laughed at him. That's Kimi's personality. Stating that I made it up was wrong and assuming I don't know about their relationship was also wrong of you. You've got some kind of personal hatred towards Alonso aswell that I can't help you with, so stop bringing it up in every topic.

Bloody hell, I hope your not going to be attacking everyone's posts on here over the summer break and then assuming things in regards to people's posts. Spa looks a long way away.....

I doubt very much there was a iota of mockery in the exchange, that's my point. Pretty obvious as Vettel mentioned it on the podium without rancour. I really don't know why everyone goes off about everything Vettel does, all the drivers say things like this during the race.

As for Alonso, well I just don't like whiners who blame others. Can't help myself contrasting what Craig thought was some kind of big deal with a pretty shabby episode from last year that wasn't an in-car comment but a tweeted allegation.

[Mad for Chelsea]

My thoughts on the race.

Hamilton: superb, pretty much flawless. Yes you could argue he had a bit of luck with Grosjean copping a harsh (IMO) drive-through, and Vettel having a couple of issues, but you could equally say Hamilton made his own luck by quickly (always within one or two laps) making the passes he needed straight after his pit stops (Webber twice, Button once). Vettel by contrast couldn't get past either Button or Raikkonen on fresher tyres (though that's also partly due to the way the RB is set up, it's not a particularly easy car to overake in).

Raikkonen: made the two-stopper work, and grabbed a handful of points on Vettel at least by keeping him behind him. A good solid race. Will hope the Mercedes continue to be able to challenge the RB to give himself a chance at catching Vettel in the championship, but reallistically needs to improve his qualifying to have a genuine chance.

Vettel: solid enough, scoring good points, but will be disappointed not to have done slightly better. Certainly had a quick car, but lost out in not being able to overtake Button, and signs of a little frustration at times. Didn't think much of his comment on Raikkonen not giving him enough room, but it was at the end of a long, draining race, so we should cut him some slack. Still a good week-end for him.

Others: Webber had a good Sunday after suffering ANOTHER Kers failure in qualifying. Alonso had a poor week-end, the car is really a concern (whatever happened to Alonso's fabled abilities to improve the car?!?!). Grosjean was a little unlucky with his penalties IMO, possibly a case of the Stewards playing the man rather than the incident? Button drove a good solid race. Force India need to up their game. Ricciardo against Vettel doesn't bear thinking about...

Tyre situation. In all the surprise generated by Hamilton's tyres not blowing up, one thing hasn't really been mentioned. At one point Hamilton was told by his engineer that his tyres were fine and he could increase his pace by half a second just "to make sure" (this was when Vettel was catching up very quickly to Raikkonen and there may have been a slight worry that he would take him and chase Hamilton down - maybe 12 laps out or so). He promptly increase his lap time by... 0.6 seconds. Suggests that the drivers are still not totally pushing their tyres...

[SteveG]

I think people are being a little unfair, saying this "miracle" was in the form of JB.

CM - the miracle I was referring to was JB driving a poor Mclaren and duely keeping Vettel behind him - have seen Vettel rear up behind Button on countless occasions and normally makes mince meat out of him so was pleasantly surprised. Although do acknowledge that in this instance the track also played a part in it.
 
As for the 'talk to Charlie' comment - also picked up on that and although it sounds a bit cringeworthy didnt for one minute think that RB would actually 'talk to Charlie' - it's often just something a race engineer says to pacify his driver to keep him focussed in the heat of the battle.

[bogbrush]

The big thing will be seeing if Mercedes sustain this performance on the next chalk-and-cheese track from Hungary. If they do then he's probably the serious contender to Vettel.

[GSC]

I do think the front wing damage Vettel got really hurt him in combination with the dirty air of Button. The commentators mentioned it, the RBs balance was off and sliding into the first chicane.

[bogbrush]

Poor old Jenson's become something of a mobile chicane.

[GSC]

Was kinda illustrated by Grosjean. Was able to get on the throttle earlier out of turn 5 and got the inside track into the chicane (even if he then turned into Jenson). The RB just couldn't get on the throttle early enough to do that. Hurt him again against Kimi.

[Guest]

The big thing will be seeing if Mercedes sustain this performance on the next chalk-and-cheese track from Hungary. If they do then he's probably the serious contender to Vettel.

BB that's probably the key point of discussion now. Everyone thought, including Hamilton himself, that in these conditions and with their history, that a win was never a realistic possibility. The tyres lasted for Mercedes, surprisingly......was it the lesser demands of the track and lack of high speed corners and clean air or have Mercedes finally solved their issues or are these tyres drastically different to the previous ones. Will Spa and the higher loads created there cause a return of Mercedes' issues. The fact that Force India, who were flourishing under the old tyres struggled immensely was very interesting. Also, Marussia claimed the tyres were dreadful for them and they were comprehensively beaten by Caterham, something not seen to that extent before. The changing of the tyres and penalising teams like FI, who flourished previously, doesn't quite fit right with me but if Mercedes and in particular Hamilton are now claiming an advantage and are genuine title challengers then I would be happy of course. Conflict of thoughts and wants my end.

[bogbrush]

I agree, obviously the problem all goes back to trying to artificially mess things up with dodgy tyres in the first place.

I like F1 to be about ultimate performance, this feels more like lower class racing with handicaps. It wasn't fair at the start, now it's not fair to others. Tyres should be the best the manufacturer can make, even if they then make them do stuff like grooves or whatever. Limiting parameters is one thing, enforcing weak equipment is another.

[Guest]

More mid-season related news which has made me laugh. How such drivel continues to come out of this guy is astonishing.

Speaking in an exclusive interview with AUTOSPORT, team principal Martin Whitmarsh said that the combination of the 2012 car over-performing compared to its wind tunnel model and the 2013 car underperforming, led to McLaren losing its way at the start of this year.

"Sometimes you're lucky in life and you stick all the elements together and they add up," said Whitmarsh. "Sometimes they just don't.

"There were times when it's come good and we don't really know why. At the end of last year, some of the developments over-performed. We were actually over-delivering at the track''.

What an embarrassment. You over-delivered on the track or was it just that Lewis outperformed the car, the team and just got on with driving because he couldn't be bothered listening to the rubbish that came out of your mouth. No wonder he signed for Mercedes.

[GSC]

Yes, yes, Lewis Hamilton is the greatest man who lived, Ayrton Senna v2, blah blah blah...

The McLaren was a very quick car for most of last season, reliability was their achilles heel.

McLaren have had a poor season this time round, but I wouldn't bet against them being near the top with the regulation shake up.

[Guest]

That was not a 'Hamilton is the greatest' post, you just state that on every person's post when praising Hamilton. I was stating what a joke Martin Whitmarsh is in regards to his comments.

''Sometimes you're lucky in life and you stick all the elements together and they add up''. No, Martin. I think you will find that is called research & development, led by aerodynamic & engineering brains, which costs millions of pounds each year in attempting to create the fastest car possible. I don't think they would be chuffed to hear that their arduous, pain-stakingly long hard work is basically all down to luck. There is a science to it. I don't think Newey relies on luck to produce his title winning cars each year.

"There were times when it's come good and we don't really know why''. I do, it's called the driver input, outperforming the car. No one really knows why you still have a job Martin.

Agree, in regards to the regulation shaking things up. However, the cream usually rise to the top, regardless of changes to the sport.

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