Hungarian GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of Practice/Qualifying and Race Results

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

It may only be three weeks, but the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring seems like a lifetime ago. So it's good to be previewing a return to Budapest and the Formula 1 Magyar Nagydij 2013.

Drivers enjoy the city and the welcome from the Hungarian (and Finnish) fans, and a few of them actually like the circuit too, which in many respects is a glorified kart track. It has a succession of slow corners, one leading immediately onto another, making it the second slowest track on the calendar. It is only just faster than Monaco, but without all the tax-dodging.

As Renault motorsport boss Remi Taffin says, it's not about engine power: "Outright engine power is not a major concern. As a result we generally use engines on the third race and work to deliver good low-speed torque response and driveability."

Since the Nurburgring, Pirelli have been working to supply F1 with new tyres - everyone bar Mercedes got to run with them at the Young Driver Test and the reaction was positive from the teams.

Pirelli have modified their P Zero tyre with a reversion to the 2012 construction which is now married to the range of softer 2013 compounds. Their motorsport boss Paul Hembery, having weathered the storm that the F1 teams created after the Silverstone GP, is looking forward to a good old-fashioned strategy battle at the Hungaroring. Even though 10 teams got to run the tyres at the Young Driver Test (and Mercedes received the data) Hembery believes that Friday set-up work will be crucial to figuring out strategy.

"Overtaking at this circuit is never an easy task, "said Hembery, "so the teams will be looking to use strategy to maximise their opportunities to gain track position. The selection of medium and soft tyres should provide plenty of chances to help them do that, based on the data that all the teams gain with different fuel loads in free practice."

Many Fridays have been ruined in previous grand prix weekend by Friday rain, but at the Hungaroring it's expected to be Scorchio all weekend with ambient temperatures of 32C, 33C and 36C for the race.

Looking after your rears may well be the order of the day, but Hembery believes that the Softs and Mediums will just lose performance rather than disintegrate. "With levels of lateral energy relatively low, tyre performance rather than durability will be the limiting factor and this will form the basis of the strategy selected."

The added durability of the new tyre may well be to the advantage of Lotus, Force India and Ferrari who will be able to eke out performance on the Soft tyres, while Mercedes and Red Bull may be forced into using the slower Medium tyres. A lot of computing and brain power will have gone into solving degradation issues since the last race, none more so than at Mercedes who had to sit out the Young Driver Test.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff should have been a lot more upbeat about the weekend in prospect. In the last race at a tight, twisty circuit - Monaco - his cars locked out the front row and won the race. But that was on a different tyre. "We are under no illusions that we have a number of challenges to overcome," Wolff said. "First, we will need to do extra homework on Friday to understand how the new tyres work with our car. Then we will have to get to grips with the high temperatures, a demanding circuit and the new Soft and Medium compound Pirelli tyres. "

At least he'll have a couple of pumped up drivers. Lewis Hamilton has won the Hungarian Grand Prix three times before and Nico Rosberg just wants to beat Lewis Hamilton.

There may not be any Hungarian drivers on the grid, but ever since the days of Mika Hakkinen, the race has attracted a lot of Finnish fans. Some of them may be cheering Valtteri Bottas, but the majority will be hoping that Kimi Raikkonen doesn't have to step onto that hated second step of the podium again.

"I have finished second in Hungary too many times," grumbled the Ice (Cream) Man, "so I know how important it is to lead the race after the first corner. DRS or not, it's never easy to overtake at the Hungaroring. To get the weekend right, you have to have good sessions in FP1, FP2 and FP3, then a strong qualifying session and finally a perfect start to the race."

"Many times Hungary has been called 'the Grand Prix of Finland'. A lot of Finns go to this race every year and it is always nice to see the blue and white flags waving. Hopefully we get the result we are looking for."

One thing that Raikkonen was concerned about was the dust at the Hungaroring, especially on the dirty side of the grid. Often teams worry about starting on the dirty side of the grid and nothing dreadful happens, but at the Hungaroring it can be a problem. And with teams able to re-arrange their drivers by changing a gearbox and hence changing the left-side starters to right-side starters, it is a lottery that can still be manipulated. (Maybe the FIA should have the power to impose a six-place penalty for a gearbox that they believe has been changed for tactical reasons?)

Red Bull will be hoping to battle it out with Lotus and Mercedes for the win, and having gone quickest on the new Pirelli rubber at the YDT they will obviously be hoping to add to Mark Webber's win at the circuit. It's been an interesting week with the team announcing a July 6th 2014 date for an Austrian GP at the Red Bull Ring. So presumably next year this will precede the Hungarian GP and may even elbow aside the 2014 German GP.

The Hungarian race marks the start of the F1 holiday season and after this it will be another four weeks until the race in Spa. Traditionally the grand prix was promoted by one of Bernie Ecclestone's companies and the good burghers of Budapest erected a statue of Bernard Charles at the Hungaroring looking, if truth be told, a little like a cross between Eric Morecambe and Elvis Costello. The way things are going with events in Munich, this may be the closest we get to Bernie's attendance next year...

Like the Australian Grand Prix, the tight confines and atypical nature of the circuit will only give a small piece of the picture about the teams' relative performance on the new tyre. The Belgian GP with many high-speed corners will provide much more of the picture. Butit's going to be a fascinating glimpse of the battles ahead.

Weather Forecast:http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/3054643 < Looking to be very hot this weekend close to 40 degrees come raceday.
Source: PlanetF1.com

[bogbrush]

I see he's in the fastest car again today.......... not.

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Grosjean cocks up himself again.

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Balls of steel Grosjean.

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Vettel on the charge, did Button do enough for Hamilton?

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Very well might come down to Webber vs Hamilton. Webber older tyres, but he'll get the option on low fuel.

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Its all falling into place for Hamilton at the moment.

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Grosjean takes a drive through

Just doesn't have the mindset to back out.

[bogbrush]

He's going to be a very good driver though, he's got the game, just needs to learn better where to put it in.

[bogbrush]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Mark is told to let Seb beat him. It's the obviously call, compulsory really.

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One question, if Vettel makes the last to lap 57/58, why can't he use soft tyres for his last run?

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No reason why he can't.

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Not had the best luck today Seb, but looks set to increase his Lead again.

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Said he needed a miracle yesterday, did Hamilton, not quite a miracle but hes got the help he needed

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Rosbergs engine blows.

Might be queue starting for the bathroom in the Mercedes garage after that.

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This is some great defending from Kimi on dead tyres

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How on earth did Kimi hold on for 2nd.

[bogbrush]

He did so well to hold on there for 2nd.

Hamilton got some help where it mattered, but probably due some I'd say.

A bad race for Vettel, what with Button messing him up early on then him getting a nudge, but he can't be too unhappy with 3rd. Raikonnen now his nearest challenger.

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Yeah, Hamilton got his luck but you still have to drive it home.

Great work from Kimi.

RB and Vettel might be a bit disappointed but he still increases his lead.

Decent race, but promised a lot more.

[CaledonianCraig]

Great drive by Hamilton for the win. How Kimi held on to second on decrepit tyres was amazing. Vettel has had better races but most importantly he still increases his lead in the title race. As for constructors Red Bull already have the title in the bag. Nice to see McLaren getting a little more competitive and delighted that Williams got their first point of the season.

[dyrewolfe]

YESSS!!! CONGRATS LEWIS HAMILTON ON HIS MAIDEN WIN FOR MERCEDES!     

Consummate drive from start to finish and he did a very aggressive (but just about fair) overtake on Webber just after a pit stop, so he didn't lose time on Vettel. Had some luck with Vettel getting held up, but did everything asked of him and more.

Drive of the day for me though has to be Kimi Raikkonen, qualifying 6th and holding off a determined challenge from Vettel, despite being on much older tyres to claim 2nd.

An eventful race for Grosjean. Could have done better had he not been penalised with a drive-through for colliding with Button.

Good result for Vettel which keeps his championship lead very healthy. For once Red Bull's race strategies didn't pan out as they hoped, with both drivers getting caught in traffic through the race. Seb won't be happy with 3rd but its a good result nonetheless. Good result for Webber, finishing 4th after starting 10th. Both cars also suffered KERS issues throughout the race.

Probably fair to say Ferrari will be disappointed with their results, with Alonso unable to make any improvement on his qualifying position of 5th and Massa finishing a place down on where he started (8th).

Some glimmers of hope for McLaren, with both drivers looking fairly quick. Button will probably be pretty happy with his 7th place finish after qualifying out of the top 10. Perez like Alonso finished where he started in 9th.

All in all a pretty exciting race with some great duels among the top 10. For a circuit that is not noted for overtaking, we got a good spectacle today.

[dyrewolfe]

Was a quality lap by Hamilton don't think he'll stay there though due to it being even hotter tomorrow.

Can see a Grosjean/Vettel battle tbh 


It's not much of an accomplishment beating Fangio's record tbh DW He's done more then twice as many races then Fangio did.

Fangio 29 Poles/52 Races 
Hamilton 30 Poles/120 Races

Hardly a fair comparison Fernando.

In Fangio's era, there were far fewer races over a season, plus there was far greater disparity between the cars, with the majority of teams being classed as "independents" and only a handful of works teams.

I'm guessing there wasn't anything like the amount of homogenisation and cross-team engine/equipment sharing, as there is in the modern era.

Basically, it was much easier for a really good driver to stand out from the pack.

If you even try and compare Hamilton to Fangio in the politest way possible your a muppet.  

The cars are much easier to drive nowadays and the tracks are much more safety conscious so can run wide and come back on, If you ran wide in 1950's you wouldn't be coming back.

You could put Max Chilton/Charles Pic in Hamilton's seat and he'd produce results it's the car not the man nowadays just have to take a look at what Pat Symonds said the other day at most Vettel/Alonso would find 0.5 over the current Marussia drivers in there car.

You say it's less competitive yet we have had the same 8 cars fighting week in week out it's hardly disparity when you know one of RB/Mercedes/Ferrari/Lotus will win unless it rains especially when atleast another 8 cars get lapped that's hardly competitive racing.

No offence, but it was you who made the comparison in the first place. I merely pointed out a stat thrown up by the commentators (i.e. that Hamilton was now on the same number of poles).

Also, while you can't reasonably compare the two eras, don't you think it says something that Fangio won 5 world titles in just 52 races, while the likes of Schumacher, Alonso & Vettel took a lot longer to win theirs?

[Fernando]

Was a quality lap by Hamilton don't think he'll stay there though due to it being even hotter tomorrow.

Can see a Grosjean/Vettel battle tbh 


It's not much of an accomplishment beating Fangio's record tbh DW He's done more then twice as many races then Fangio did.

Fangio 29 Poles/52 Races 
Hamilton 30 Poles/120 Races

Hardly a fair comparison Fernando.

In Fangio's era, there were far fewer races over a season, plus there was far greater disparity between the cars, with the majority of teams being classed as "independents" and only a handful of works teams.

I'm guessing there wasn't anything like the amount of homogenisation and cross-team engine/equipment sharing, as there is in the modern era.

Basically, it was much easier for a really good driver to stand out from the pack.

If you even try and compare Hamilton to Fangio in the politest way possible your a muppet.  

The cars are much easier to drive nowadays and the tracks are much more safety conscious so can run wide and come back on, If you ran wide in 1950's you wouldn't be coming back.

You could put Max Chilton/Charles Pic in Hamilton's seat and he'd produce results it's the car not the man nowadays just have to take a look at what Pat Symonds said the other day at most Vettel/Alonso would find 0.5 over the current Marussia drivers in there car.

You say it's less competitive yet we have had the same 8 cars fighting week in week out it's hardly disparity when you know one of RB/Mercedes/Ferrari/Lotus will win unless it rains especially when atleast another 8 cars get lapped that's hardly competitive racing.

No offence, but it was you who made the comparison in the first place. I merely pointed out a stat thrown up by the commentators (i.e. that Hamilton was now on the same number of poles).

Also, while you can't reasonably compare the two eras, don't you think it says something that Fangio won 5 world titles in just 52 races, while the likes of Schumacher, Alonso & Vettel took a lot longer to win theirs?

Fair point i was pointing out how it's a stupid statistic which it is, It's like how people overtake Senna in the overall points because of the new system etc.

All that says is F1 wasn't as far as advanced as it is today. They took longer to get world titles because there is more races that's it, Id be highly surprised if Fangio had done the same amount of races as them you've named and hadn't added to them poles he already had.

[dummy_half]

Dyre

Grosjean was NOT penalised for the collision with Button (or for subsequently missing the chicane), but for leaving the track and gaining a place when he overtook Massa round the outside - definitely a case of the stewards applying the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

Not sure why people are saying Hamilton was particularly lucky - he drove a very solid race from the front and on the occasions he needed to he passed cars on different strategies with minimal fuss. That Vettel was unable to do likewise tells you more about how RB set their cars up (higher downforce, so great in clear air but compromising top speed and so overtaking ability with DRS) than being about luck.

I think RB will be reasonably happy with getting Webber up to 4th - was always going to struggle to challenge at the very front when he didn't gain much off the start. Vettel had a mediocre race in that he probably had the fastest clear air car, but just couldn't get past Button and then Raikonnen. Not sure a win was really viable once it was obvious the Merc wasn't eating its tyres too badly, but a 2nd and challenging LH should have been achievable.

Good for Lotus other than Grosjean's penalty, and a bit of a 'meh' weekend for Ferrari - probably the 4th fastest team, so 5th and 8th not terrible given what they had to work with.

Overall a pretty good race on a circuit not always noted for it - odd though that for a track with such a reputation for processional races, this was only the 2nd win from pole in a decade

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I think the front wing damage Vettel got really unbalanced the car, really stopping him getting on the throttle after Kimi towards the end.

Decent race, but promised so much more

[Fernando]

Fernando Alonso's agent has been caught talking to Christian Horner in the RB motorhome.

Apparently RB willing to buy out Alonso if willing to join RB 

[CaledonianCraig]

Fernando Alonso's agent has been caught talking to Christian Horner in the RB motorhome.

Apparently RB willing to buy out Alonso if willing to join RB 

It will never happen in a million years for a couple of reasons. One - Vettel is there and owns the team. Two - Alonso has been through a similar scenario in the past (McLaren and Hamilton) and that ended messily.

[Guest]

Good race and delighted for Lewis on achieving his first win for Mercedes. Button did a great job on Vettel and was key in Hamilton`s success, bout time the luck changed. Still annoys me that Vettel has a bad day, yet increases his Championship lead. Alonso`s motivation will certainly be tested now.

Hopefully the improvement on tyre deg. for Mercedes continues to improve and Hamilton can take on Vettel more consistently in the second half of the season.

Good weekend. 

[bogbrush]

Good race and delighted for Lewis on achieving his first win for Mercedes. Button did a great job on Vettel and was key in Hamilton`s success, bout time the luck changed. Still annoys me that Vettel has a bad day, yet increases his Championship lead. Alonso`s motivation will certainly be tested now.

Hopefully the improvement on tyre deg. for Mercedes continues to improve and Hamilton can take on Vettel more consistently in the second half of the season.

Good weekend. 

Tempted to say he's that good.

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Might get worse for Alonso, after hes under investigation for using his DRS 3 times when he wasnt in range.

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I think we've discussed Vettel enough for one day

If Lotus can get their tyres to work in cooler temperatures over the break, Kimi could well have a say in the title.

[bogbrush]

Fernando Alonso's agent has been caught talking to Christian Horner in the RB motorhome.

Apparently RB willing to buy out Alonso if willing to join RB 

Could only happen if Vettel goes to Ferrari. We know Alonso can't tolerate a competitive teammate.

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Vettel and Alonso doesn't sound like a particularly friendly duo. Though Alonso has matured.

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This is obviously hugely encouraging for Hamiton & Mercedes, the only caveat I'd place is that this is mini Monaco. There are more 'normal' tracks to go from here.

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Mmm, Button allowed him to drive a pressure free race and save his tyres.

[Guest]

Mmm, Button allowed him to drive a pressure free race and save his tyres.

But that's what Vettel`s done his whole RB career. Pole + clean air and that allows you to drive a free race, no pressure and the tyres are not damaged, unlike everyone else who is racing for position. Standard success strategy.

Its just a great result for Championship & certainly creates some excitement for the rest of the season. I still have a huge issue with these tyres being changed and now suddenly helping random teams and impeding ones who have previously flourished. Just doesn't seem legitimate or right, if that's the right wording.

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I'm not criticising. Just agreeing with BB that its not entirely proof of revival.

[SteveG]

Hamilton said he needed a miracle - well step forward Mr Jenson Button - not quite devine intervention but enough. Throw in bit of new found determination "I'm always being fed back into traffic and today I wasn't having any of it" and bingo 1st win of the season. A fantastic perfectly controlled race from Hamilton. What impressed most was after 'feeling' his soft tyres starting to go it was Hamilton who made the call to come in early for his first pitstop, meanwhile Vettel ploughed on, lost the tyres and ultimately any chance of the race as he arrived at the back of the Mclaren at the end of the pit straight for the long haul. Roll on Spa and Monza - two big engine tracks and so long as Merc can stay on top of the tyres then maybe - just maybe there could be the most unlikeliest of comebacks.

[CaledonianCraig]

In my opinion a few things contributed to this win but would not equate them to luck. On pole he got off to a solid start and set about taking advantage of all that clear air and built a lead driving in a way that meant he wasn't harming his tyres too much. True Vettel was hindered by damage to his front wing but that had nothing to do with any Hamilton luck and it was not luck that Button held Vettel up for a dozen laps. Hamilton passed the same Button in a lap so Vettel paid dearly for being unable to pass Button. Again not anything to do with luck.

Sometimes things in F1 can seem so simple - get pole position, get to the first corner first, build a lead and look after the tyres and there is an excellent chance you will win. That is exactly what Hamilton did today.

[Guest]

Just some post-race news. Apparently the Indian GP will be axed from next year's calendar due to 'political reasons'. I think that's a real shame but those reasons are probably the case but Bernie will use it as the excuse to replace it with Austria or some other track.

Alonso to Red Bull story is just ridiculous. A quick sighting of his manager in the Red Bull garage has caused a big media storm, when it fact he was talking to Horner, who in reality doesn't make the final decision on drivers or contracts and secondly he was more likely talking about his client Carlos Sainz Jr who tested for them at Silverstone. Also, not sure if discussed but once again it looks like Ricciardo's race craft let him down again and was beaten by Vergne at Hungary. I don't think either are good enough for Red Bull and probably the reason why Kimi and now apparently Alonso are contenders for the drive in 2014.

[bogbrush]

Who'd have Alonso after his behaviour with Ferrari? He's playing with becoming damaged goods in my opinion, and young guys are coming through so who needs to put up with the whining?

[CaledonianCraig]

Storm in a teacup if you ask me. Alonso isn't going to Red Bull and Ferrari will never sack Alonso.

[CaledonianCraig]

A laughable moment from Sunday's race had to be in the dying laps of the race. Raikonnen was working overtime to stay ahead of Vettel driving very fairly though. We cut to Vettel on radio complaining about Raikkonen not leaving him enough space. Totally refuted by the commentators yet his team's response was: 'We'll get onto Charlie Whiting.'   It kind of shows that when Vettel talks his team jump like puppets even though there was absolutely nothing wrong with Kimi's driving.

Afterwards Vettel said he joked with Kimi about it on the podium yet his team must have looked like fools taking his 'complaint' to Charlie Whiting.

[Guest]

Yeah, typical RB. To talk to Whiting about that was just embarrassing. Apparently Vettel went upto Kimi post-race and discussed the issue and Kimi just laughed in his face. Legend.

This is where silly season begins, rumours galore and a load of journalists stirring ridiculous stories because they've got nothing to report on. Alonso saying 'I would like a different car for my birthday' was a stupid comment and was just the fuel needed to create this media frenzy about him moving to Red Bull. Never going to happen in a million years though. He's contracted to Ferrari & buying him out would be a ridiculous move for RB. It would also make a mockery of their young driver programme and the investment the team have in it. I still think Kimi has a great chance of the drive, because essentially he's a free agent, but it will probably end up being Ricciardo.

[bogbrush]

Actually the account of it was light hearted, as Craig says. They are very good friends outside the sport by all accounts and there's quite a difference between laughing and "laughing in your face". You dreamt that bit up to make yourself feel happier, John.

Guy complains on the radio, team says they'll look into it. Yes, of course they all normally say stfu and drive don't they? you don't even know they did take it Craig, and you don't know how many messages Whiting gets every race.

I suppose we think the disgraceful, grubby effort of Ferarri to pander to Samurai Fernando trying to win the championship after Brazil on a ridiculously unsound point was fine though. Even Bernie had to give them the pimp hand for that.

Honestly, you kids and your hatred of Vettel.

[GSC]

It was late in an immensely frustrating race for Seb, I doubt RB made a big deal of it.

Any other driver it'd be a non issue

[bogbrush]

Storm in a teacup if you ask me. Alonso isn't going to Red Bull and Ferrari will never sack Alonso.

Ferrari is bigger than any driver, Schumacher being the only exception - but then he became one with Ferrari.

Alonso is just a pilot. They can get others any time, they could have Vetell if they wanted, or Hamilton.

[Guest]

Bogbrush, what's got into you? Acting like a ****.

I know Kimi & Vettel are seriously good friends outside of the sport. He laughed in his face because he knew he could do it to Vettel and how he would react. Kimi knew that the issue was ridiculous, so he laughed at him. That's Kimi's personality. Stating that I made it up was wrong and assuming I don't know about their relationship was also wrong of you. You've got some kind of personal hatred towards Alonso aswell that I can't help you with, so stop bringing it up in every topic.

Bloody hell, I hope your not going to be attacking everyone's posts on here over the summer break and then assuming things in regards to people's posts. Spa looks a long way away.....

[Critical_mass]

John, what did you say "tomorrow will be very different matter" pleased to see you proven wrong mate

I think people are being a little unfair, saying this "miracle" was in the form of JB. Lewis could have easily got stuck behind Button, but managed to pass... same with getting passed Webber. Sure Button had older tyres on, but thats the way the races go sometimes.

well done to Kimi for a 2nd place after being in 11th i believe at one point. Vettel should be please with 3rd and have to say Button didnt do too bad either. Ferrari need to get on with it and make up the deficit because at the moment they look to be falling back a little.

Congrats Lewis! May there be many more!

[Guest]

John, what did you say "tomorrow will be very different matter" pleased to see you proven wrong mate

Congrats Lewis! May there be many more!

Glad I was wrong along with many of the experts.

[Critical_mass]

John, what did you say "tomorrow will be very different matter" pleased to see you proven wrong mate

Congrats Lewis! May there be many more!

Glad I was wrong along with many of the experts.

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