Hero Schalk back in training

Schalk Burger has made a return to training with the Western Province after numerous injuries and illnesses have kept him out of the game for almost 2 years. Great news, but will he make the Springbok squad again when we consider the strength in depth of South Africa's loose forwards? I for one hope so.

http://www.espn.co.uk/southafrica/rugby/story/192013.html

We need him, our current backrow is unbalanced and on the whole rather inexperienced.

Arno Botha, Marcell Coetzee and Siya Kolisi are all still very young and although there is merit in all three being in the mix it is no forgone conclusion which position they will play.

Pierre Spies is not up to par in defence and his ball carrying body position is too upright for close quarter combat.

Duane Vermeulen is injured and on return the better option at 8, whilst Willem Alberts most likely to be the first choice at 7. Having said that his body is taking an awful amount of punishment and he is regularly struggling with niggly injuries.

Francois Louw isn't in SA, so shouldn't be selected.

Brussow although deserving of an opportunity carries no favour with Meyer.

There are guys like Lappies Labuschagne and van der Walt who can still be looked at.

But none of these combination are very experienced, Burger in my view can become our no 8 for the next few years.

I have to say when Boks get injured they really get injured.

Burger, Goosen (his second season ending from a training goal kick injury!), Fourie dp, Juan Smith all had injuries that took over a year, some two and three to get over and none fully resurrected their careers. Amazing. If Burger can get back to his pre 2010 form I'll be amazed.

To be fair not many of us would survive a good kicking from a training goal.

Dan Carter didn't.

True but Carter wasnt out for the entire year afterwards

Ligament injuries >30s is always a career threat. Once they go, they go and you can't do anything about it.

His injuries have been thus

2012 full season - knee ligaments
2013 full season - Calf strain, Cyst on spine and then Meningitis.

He will probably have lost a lot of bulk through his most recent illness so to get back I think he will need to train injury free until Feb next year to get up to speed. The Currie Cup is too soon for him.. probably won't see him play until early Jan and the pre season matches.

Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

Get a life LD.

One mistake should not and does not take away all the great things he has done on and off the pitch.
Why don't you say the same about Parisse??? Is he scum too?

fa0019 wrote:Get a life LD.

One mistake should not and does not take away all the great things he has done on and off the pitch.
Why don't you say the same about Parisse??? Is he scum too?

This thread is not about Parisse. 

For the record it is not just one mistake, gouging aside he has constantly given himself a reputation for being a bully, I can remember a game I think it was the World cup in France, where he was taking people out in the air left, right and center. But, I do not begrudge you defending your countryman, he plays for your country so you must feel the need to defend him, I have no problem with that. 

he's physical sure but he's no thug.... the way you talk of his awful presence makes PDV's comments post the 2nd test in 09 sound more and more sensible.

PS - I'm not south african.

fa0019 wrote:he's physical sure but he's no thug.... the way you talk of his awful presence makes PDV's comments post the 2nd test in 09 sound more and more sensible.

PS - I'm not south african.

Sorry, I apologise, I just thought you were becuase you always seem to comment on South African rugby and super rugby in general.

i live in Cape Town.

fa0019 wrote:i live in Cape Town.

Ahh, that explains it then. So, what nationality are you then ?

Looking at Burger almost as a medical test specimen, I am fascinated about his recovery. Considering the severity of his injuries and the forwards-backwards progress of his rehab, I have to wonder about whether he can truly regain his previous form or not. And then I wonder how long his body can sustain the wear and tear of a season.

Good luck to him. I know he has good medical support. But he is clearly a 50/50 proposition.

LordDowlais wrote:

fa0019 wrote:i live in Cape Town.

Ahh, that explains it then. So, what nationality are you then ?

from Scotland LD.

LordDowlais wrote:Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

Coming from you that doesn't really carry much weight at all.

doctor_grey wrote:Looking at Burger almost as a medical test specimen, I am fascinated about his recovery.  Considering the severity of his injuries and the forwards-backwards progress of his rehab, I have to wonder about whether he can truly regain his previous form or not.  And then I wonder how long his body can sustain the wear and tear of a season.

Good luck to him.  I know he has good medical support.  But he is clearly a 50/50 proposition.  

Doc, Schalk has been one of the first names on the teamsheet since the 2004 season. I've just had a look at the stats and the boks have played 117 tests during this time. Schalk only has 65 caps from this period which means he's only been available for 56% of their matches. Of course we can take into consideration him being rested/banned but thats probably no more than a dozen matches or so.

In essence, he's had his fair share of injuries.

If we look at Jonny Wilkinson's record in comparision it makes the picture even more clear. JW was the first choice 10 from the 99 season until the RWC11 give or take a few minor months when Cipriani/Flood were 1st choice. During this time England have played 151 matches and JW has appeared in 88 of them... again he will have been rested/banned for some but still he was still used 58% of the time.

So it would appear Schalk has been more unavailable then one of the most perceived injury prone players of our time. It really goes to show if you play the game like a crash test dummy you're going to get to know the treatment room very well.

Biltong wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

Coming from you that doesn't really carry much weight at all.

Neither does that comment from you carry much weight, so before we post perhaps we should all take a good look at ourselves first.

LordDowlais wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

Coming from you that doesn't really carry much weight at all.

Neither does that comment from you carry much weight, so before we post perhaps we should all take a good look at ourselves first.

i didn't make a judgement of another country's player mate. Of all the things you could say only one that came up was "scum"

LordDowlais wrote:Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

He never actually gouged Fitzgerald and what exactly is a "flat track bully" in rugby?

I'm sure he'll be devastated though that you've lost all respect for him, makes the comeback seem a bit pointless.

Galted wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

He never actually gouged Fitzgerald and what exactly is a "flat track bully" in rugby?

I'm sure he'll be devastated though that you've lost all respect for him, makes the comeback seem a bit pointless.

Good point, I better notify him it is a waste of his time and he should rather focus on their wine farm.

nae worries BB - we only have to wait another 20 years before he emerges once more on the rugby pitch... Schalk Burger Jnr will be just about ready to tear everyone apart like his pappie en Oupa did before him... its in the genes.

fa0019 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Looking at Burger almost as a medical test specimen, I am fascinated about his recovery.  Considering the severity of his injuries and the forwards-backwards progress of his rehab, I have to wonder about whether he can truly regain his previous form or not.  And then I wonder how long his body can sustain the wear and tear of a season.

Good luck to him.  I know he has good medical support.  But he is clearly a 50/50 proposition.  

Doc, Schalk has been one of the first names on the teamsheet since the 2004 season. I've just had a look at the stats and the boks have played 117 tests during this time. Schalk only has 65 caps from this period which means he's only been available for 56% of their matches. Of course we can take into consideration him being rested/banned but thats probably no more than a dozen matches or so.

In essence, he's had his fair share of injuries.

If we look at Jonny Wilkinson's record in comparision it makes the picture even more clear. JW was the first choice 10 from the 99 season until the RWC11 give or take a few minor months when Cipriani/Flood were 1st choice. During this time England have played 151 matches and JW has appeared in 88 of them... again he will have been rested/banned for some but still he was still used 58% of the time.

So it would appear Schalk has been more unavailable then one of the most perceived injury prone players of our time. It really goes to show if you play the game like a crash test dummy you're going to get to know the treatment room very well.

 Great post fa0019, really interesting to note that. Good research too!

It would be interesting to get more of an insight into these sorts of figures. It really makes you wonder about players with a similar style to Burger, and the toll it eventually takes on their body.

bluestone... just used the espn and pick & go websites... not a fullproof theory but a decent guide.

Galted wrote:
He never actually gouged Fitzgerald

Hold on. What's this now? Has someone found new evidence that he was actually "in the pub" when it happened?

Galted wrote:what exactly is a "flat track bully" in rugby?

Not a phrase I am a big fan of, but I assume it means that "on a flat track" he is a bully. Put him "up a bit of a hill" and he's not so tough.

Or. He's tough in school but put him out in the world and he's not so tough. ....... I'm guessing.

Look guys, I am entitled to my opinion, just because you do not like it, it should not reflect on the opinion you have on me, I very much doubt that in the grand scheme of things that what ever I think will have any influence on Shalk Burger, but I am only going on what I whitness when watching him play rugby, so defend your countryman all you want, I have no problem with this, but please do not pass judgment on me.

Galted.... better plan your retort before you post... last time I queried an infringement with Jennifer I got my a.ss handed to me (so to speak)... I still recall the scars from that 6N Healy debate!!!!

LD

Bakkies, Bismarck in fact most front five players from the boks over the years can make claim to the thug label. Even Frans Steyn reminds me of an old boere cop these days... i.e. a bit of a bully.

However I think saying Schalk is part of that is a little off the mark. He plays on the margins but never the margins of legality... he just plays as hard as possible. Schalk is one of the few rugby players who gets respect and admiration from his opposition and its because he's known as a top guy on and off the pitch... a bit like Jason Leonard. For instance its well known that Schalk and Jerry Collins are good mates, mainly due to the fercious battles they had over the years... but the friendship wouldn't happen if these guys were simply looking to bash the other up legal or not. Bakkies is univserally hated by every team and fan who he comes up against. Its a little different IMO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... he gets a lot of yellow cards that is true but mainly due to infringements not being over the top physically.

fa0019 wrote:Galted.... better plan your retort before you post... last time I queried an infringement with Jennifer I got my a.ss handed to me (so to speak)... I still recall the scars from that 6N Healy debate!!!!

I honestly don't remember that one fa. Don't remember having a whole lot to say about Healy. Then again I sometimes stumble accross old posts and think..." I don't remember posting that" So appologies if I upset you. I normally stay off the international section during busy times.

What I remember about Burger's incident was P Dev going off on some big rant about it, a lot of which was hard to understand or to relate to the incident.

I never remember anyone claming Fitzer had not been gouged.

Ah, Jennifer, my apologises it was MrsP, never cross her... she knows her stuff.

fa0019 wrote:Ah, Jennifer, my apologises it was MrsP, never cross her... she knows her stuff.

I believe she is "actually" a woman too!  

whatevers girlfriend!

i was going to ask if your name was just a clever robert galbraith alias.

Nothing so highbrow. Just an allusion to my team. You know the ladyboys that roggered the (w)hole of Europe for the last few years.

I'd hate to see how Schalk will be in 20 years time: all those injuries will surely come back to haunt him in later life. I bumped into Gary Teichman the other day, and he looks like he's having considerable trouble with his knees....and he played before the days of ridiculous rugby-filled calenders..

LordDowlais wrote:Shalk Burger is so far from a hero it is not even funny, for all his ability the man is scum on the rugby field, after watching him blatantly gouge on the Lions tour and just being a flat track bully I have lost all respect for him as a player.

The guy is a legend. He's abrasive and sometimes oversteps the mark. End of story. Good to see him back.

LordDowlais wrote:Look guys, I am entitled to my opinion, just because you do not like it, it should not reflect on the opinion you have on me, I very much doubt that in the grand scheme of things that what ever I think will have any influence on Shalk Burger, but I am only going on what I whitness when watching him play rugby, so defend your countryman all you want, I have no problem with this, but please do not pass judgment on me.

Oh. So you can pass judgement on other people though? Interesting.

Another LD post lacking any substance. Move along.

LD your comments are stupid. This was a thread posted with good intentions and you bring up that. Schalk is a hero to WP supporters and IMO a legend of the game. I always loved seeing him play, I hope he makes it back into the Bok team. Wouldn't be a bad shout for captain either.

Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

Biltong wrote:Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

 
South Africans are bullies too.  Especially on flat tracks.

I don't think that's status quo Biltong.

SA is seen by most as a splendid country with a robust and fearsome sporting tradition, passionate but generous fans.

I don't think anyone should need to feel persecuted by a handful of vocal haters.

 

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

 
South Africans are bullies too.  Especially on flat tracks.

more like thugs, don't you think?

Biltong wrote:

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

 
South Africans are bullies too.  Especially on flat tracks.

more like thugs, don't you think?

 
Oh yes, definite element of thuggishness to go with the bullying, I often have to hide away at work so the South Africans can't find me.

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

 
South Africans are bullies too.  Especially on flat tracks.

more like thugs, don't you think?

 
Oh yes, definite element of thuggishness to go with the bullying, I often have to hide away at work so the South Africans can't find me.

just leave some cured dried meat out, that will distract them.

Biltong wrote:

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

 
South Africans are bullies too.  Especially on flat tracks.

more like thugs, don't you think?

 
Oh yes, definite element of thuggishness to go with the bullying, I often have to hide away at work so the South Africans can't find me.

just leave some cured dried meat out, that will distract them.

 
They're far too ferocious for that.  I once left an entire kudu carcass near the coffee machine to distract them and they demolished it in seconds.  The best diversion is to leave a rugby ball lying about, as soon as they see it they start gouging each other's eyes.

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Galted wrote:

Biltong wrote:Saint, don't woory about it mate, it is the usual nonsense of one incident now making him the scum of the earth, LD is just maintaining the status quo, South Africans are scum.

 
South Africans are bullies too.  Especially on flat tracks.

more like thugs, don't you think?

 
Oh yes, definite element of thuggishness to go with the bullying, I often have to hide away at work so the South Africans can't find me.

just leave some cured dried meat out, that will distract them.

 
They're far too ferocious for that.  I once left an entire kudu carcass near the coffee machine to distract them and they demolished it in seconds.  The best diversion is to leave a rugby ball lying about, as soon as they see it they start gouging each other's eyes.

you should share that knowledge with the next Lions coach who will bring a squad over in 2021.  

Burger is (was?) an excellent player but his actions on that 2009 tour will always be a blot on his career.

It's the same with many players. It doesn't mean he hasn't added a lot to rugby (especially SA rugby) but it won't be quickly forgotten. Especially as many think he got off very lightly.

Some players just get tarred with the 'thug' brush. Deservedly or not.

I think I really should start keeping record of every player who commits foul play and every time I read his name go off in some tyrade at what scum he is.

Just to even the ledger of perception out there.